The Wrighter’s Block Episode 60 – Doug Bandow Gets Wrighter’s Block

The Wrighter's Block

Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute, specializing in foreign policy and civil liberties. He worked as special assistant to President Reagan, and writes regularly for Fortune magazine, the American Conservative, the Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Times.

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Episode Transcript

This episode transcript is auto-generated and a provided as a service to the hearing impaired. We apologize for any errors or inaccuracies.

i’ll go
as a life raft
i will be
i am waving while i
yes everybody it is me matt right here
on another thursday evening live
with the writer’s block of muddy waters
media production
uh thank you all so much for spending
your thursday evenings with me because i
know there are a lot of things in this
world you could be doing right now and
you are choosing to spend it
here with me on the writer’s block so
thank you very much
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uh my guest tonight i’m gonna get to the
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don’t anybody worry i’m gonna get to the
rest of the sponsors later this evening
but my guest tonight is on a very
stringent uh time schedule and i’m just
excited to have him on so i’m bringing
him on
as quickly as possible uh he is a senior
fellow at the cato institute he
specializes in foreign policy and civil
he worked as a special assistant to
president reagan
rights regularly for fortune magazine
the american cr conservative wall street
journal and the washington times
please everybody welcome with me mr doug
hey doug how are you doing i
truly honored to have you on the show i
appreciate that i’m doing well and glad
to be on good to see you
yeah good to see you good to see you um
so over the last week
it has been uh it’s been a crazy week
um but let’s talk about what’s going on
cuba um obviously
everybody everybody knows especially
anybody watching the show knows
that um cuba is going through
there’s a bunch of protests going on a
little bit of a revolt
but i want to ask you because i know
that you specialize in this stuff in
fact you wrote an
article that came out this morning
hating stupid interventions does not
require loving communists for the
american conservative
fantastic article um but
how did the current protests in cuba get
well it looks like they started
spontaneously that uh
there was one that in a community south
of havana
it ended up on facebook and on sunday
and that apparently triggered the others
they hit
at least 50 communities across the
i mean there’s not as if there’s an
organization there’s no conspiracy
you know the cuban government would love
to have you think that somehow the u.s
is behind all of this
right not as if i mean washington is not
competent enough to pull something like
this off
i mean these this is the cuban people
and uh you know so apparently that’s
there’s a lot of frustration across the
island and when people saw some people
were protesting they said hey we should
do the same
and it spread and it uh you know it
really shocked the cuban government they
were not expecting this
right it’s spreading faster than kovit
is in cuba right now
the desire to get rid of communism um
yeah so obviously we’ve seen a lot of
this on facebook and on twitter with a
bunch like
the videos coming out of it and you see
the people out there and they’re
screaming you know for freedom and you
know no more communism and
obviously the american press is pretty
much saying it’s because they want the
which that makes sense to me um
but um what is making this
specific protest different from the
protests that were going on
in the past like the 1994
it was 94 correct yeah what i mean there
are there are a couple of different
things i mean they they had a big
petition campaign back in the early
like 75 000 years i mean thousands of
people signed a petition wanting freedom
uh 1994 were big protests that led to
kind of a uh
i think they talked about a raft lift or
something i mean a lot of people fleeing
to america
you could go back to 1980 at the mario
boat lift i mean there have been these
so this is number one this first uh kind
of outbreak
something like this for quite some time
second is how broad it is across the
you know in the past havana is this
focus havana is the capital it’s the big
city it’s a place
where the government is located but what
we’ve seen uh you know this past
few days is across the country it’s also
much broader
especially a lot of young people uh
you know so this is not just kind of an
older set where you could try to blame
people who’ve been around since the
revolution or something
this is one where cool young people in
particular are
very frustrated and that’s what you find
i’ve been there twice i’ve talked to
i mean in one case i talked to a
grandfather he was you know in the
foreign service
in cuba three of his four grandkids are
out of cuba
because they can’t find work i mean
there’s just no opportunity so what you
today or there are a lot of different
demands there it’s far more than covet
and that’s what has the government very
nervous is this is a broad
reaching demands this isn’t just one
thing you know this is great frustration
with the system the lack of liberty the
lack of economic opportunity
and it’s a real judgment on the cuban
right and so obviously the uh president
of cuba
you know he’s been blaming the us and
because of uh the embargo and different
uh sanctions that we have that the u.s
has on
the cuban government he’s been blaming
that and i’m not saying that i agree
with the sanctions or the embargo
but how much of that is for what is
happening right now
well the first point of course if
socialism is so wonderful it should work
whether or not you deal with the us or
not i mean there is something ironic
about a socialist government whining
about the fact that america won’t deal
with them
well i mean you’re a socialist i mean
isn’t it supposed to be a great
wonderful system for everyone
like i mean i think the sanctions are
stupid the embargo goes back 60 years
the us has added on and what we’ve done
is secondary sanctions we go after the
europeans and others who deal with them
i mean i’m very much against sanctions i
think they’re wrong in the case of cuba
i think they’re wrong in the case of
venezuela wrong in the case of
syria you know iran i think what we’re
doing is we’re starving people we’re
wrecking economies
so we can the starting point i think can
be that the us government is wrong in
this approach
if it hasn’t worked for 60 years i think
you can say it’s probably not going to
bring democracy it’s not the right step
that but it’s still there’s far more at
stake here i mean what you do is you
have mismanagement of the economy
on top of you know sanctions that is you
know this is a regime that itself i mean
this is
a question of socialism i mean this was
not working even back in the 60s 70s
where before we had secondary sanctions
it was simply the u.s wouldn’t you know
i mean i’ve been there i’ve stayed at a
dutch hotel as the first
when i went there back in i think it was
2003. you know there was european
investment i mean it wasn’t as if nobody
could come in and invest
you know so you had that so it’s not as
if they had no foreign money
you know they have a system that just
doesn’t work i mean what you find is all
the incentives are wrong
you know the state takes control the
state doesn’t know how to plan
so there’s great frustration this is a
bureaucracy that outdoes any other
you know so there’s extraordinary
economic problems they have power
food shortages long lines for food you
know and the problem they’ve had you
know kind of explosion of kovid they
you know some kind of homegrown vaccines
but i think it’s only about 16 percent
of the people have gotten them
you know they’ve had they’ve opened up
the tourism trying to bring in some
money that apparently
has brought in russians and others who
may have brought in you know some of the
so you’re seeing here is a frustration
number one on the economic side of a
whole host of issues
you have electricity of health covid of
you know food as well as a frustration
this is a dictatorship
i mean we should have no illusions here
and i think you know we have to
recognize there are
cubans who remain supportive of the
government there’s a real nationalistic
impulse saying we don’t want the us
pushing us around but this is a
dictatorship you criticize the regime
you protest against the regime
you’re likely to go to jail you know the
estimates you know human rights watch
and others figure
you know scores of people simply
disappeared they figure a couple hundred
people have been arrested
since the protests began and a number of
them have simply disappeared
that you know everybody presumes they
are in jail but they don’t know
this isn’t a good system and it
frustrates people
yeah um so
one of the things that um the huma uh
the human rights
organization hang on i took terrible
notes apparently today
um i i wrote down a quote from your
article today
uh the human rights watch uh they said
the cuban government represses
and punishes uh dissent and public
tactics against critics include beatings
public shamings
travel restrictions short-term detention
fines online harassment surveillance and
termination of employment
um now the ameri the american left
uh they have spent the last
year plus uh protesting against what
they said was
uh dictate you know a fascist regime and
but yet when it comes to this it’s
almost like they’re taking the side
of the cuban government over the people
who are fighting for freedom
do you have any idea on the logic here
well i think in part what’s going on is
a response to the rhetoric
you know the cuban rhetoric has always
been wonderful you know we love
everybody and we’re going to have
socialism and everybody will be equal
and indeed you know the cuban regime is
you know
has greater equality in the sense that
the elite other than those who have
access to foreign money
local elite are not that rich that is if
you’re a public servant you don’t get
even the leadership don’t live lavishly
though you can bet that they get their
food they get what they need
you know fidel castro got i’m sure very
good medical care
you know when he needed it you know but
so there’s a sense in which it’s not i
mean you know not like china where you
a lot i mean billions of dollars being
looted and stuff
that’s what does that sense the rhetoric
was very appealing
and part of it was the u.s made you know
fidel castro into a symbol of
you know opposition to imperialism these
kinds of things
so i think the left has become enamored
kind of the incense the image they
became enamored of the rhetoric
and losing sight of the fact that this
is a dictatorship people go to
jail early on there are a lot of
executions you know
they play rough i mean this is now this
isn’t stalin i mean it’s
not mass murder but this is not a good
system so if you’re going to say the us
needs democracy
and we have all these problems at home
why do you want to deny democracy in
you know it doesn’t make any sense to my
mind that’s
my point of my article was i’m against
u.s intervention
we shouldn’t invade we shouldn’t have
sanctions but that doesn’t mean you
should praise the cuban government
indeed it deserves to be your criticized
because it’s doing to
you know people in cuba what all these
right-wing regimes over the years did
that the u.s supported whether it be the
samosa regime in nicaragua we can come
up with a long list
of governments the u.s support i mean
the saudis i mean a great us ally
you know utterly brutal and ruthless you
know that’s appropriately criticized
we’ll criticize the
you know cuban regime as well right um
somebody in the uh in the comments here
asked a question
and they wanted to know if this revolt
was similar to uh or not at all
like the arab spring protests that we
roughly a decade ago well i think in the
sense that the arab spring protests were
also unscripted
i mean they began in tunisia there was
it had to do with regulation economics
of it
they like there was a um you know a guy
who like he i think he was a seller you
know he had like a stall or he had a
you know sold things and he was kind of
brutalized by the the cops and
taking his license whatever he set
himself on fire
right and that triggered suddenly i mean
that then protest erupted because he
i mean taking his own life and he’s kind
of going back to vietnam and vietnam
more buddhists who are setting
themselves on fire
this gets people’s attention and so that
that suddenly triggered you know
kind of demonstrations and stuff that
just cascaded across the country
so i think in the sense that you have
this underlying frustration that clearly
is broadly felt across the country and
here something just
happened i mean there’s just a moment
somebody decides to start protesting a
little and behold it gets picked up
i think that’s kind of the start of the
arab spring you know and when it jumped
egypt and elsewhere everybody’s suddenly
looking and saying well how heck if the
tunisians can do it
why shouldn’t we do it yeah why can’t we
do it that’s right so i think that
in that element i’d say yeah i think
there is a lot of similarity this
unscripted frustration
where people are saying we’re tired of
this we want new leadership we want our
leaders to listen to us
do you see a chance of uh it’s spreading
to other parts of the world like people
seeing it working in cuba and it’s
spreading like venezuela or anywhere
or do you think it’s going to stay
mainly contained to the island
uh i think latin america is just a bit
too different that is
middle east in many ways is the most
dictatorial the most closed
you know region in the country in
certain ways the most
common that is you know you have you
know several different
monarchies you know they vary within but
they’re still
where else do you have multiple
uae saudi arabia kuwait
oman bahrain i mean all of these are
their kings or they’re emirs or other
princes and whatnot
yeah so you had very similar they were
all pretty much dictatorial
you know latin america is a mix there
are a lot of democracies some lean left
some lean right
you know venezuela is the closest i mean
but they’ve had
you know i mean the the repression there
is pretty ruthless you know they’ve been
through this for years and years
so i don’t see it having the same impact
but certainly if you saw a change of
government in cuba
that would be a very dramatic symbol i
mean you know the revolutionary
government if you want to call it that
has been in power for
more than 60 years if that went out i
mean that would be a very dramatic
fair um so
with with how this is going
what is in your opinion what do you
think the best case scenario
is what’s the best case scenario for all
how how would this end and it not be a
complete bloodbath of the protesters
like what’s what is the best case yeah i
mean in many ways i think the best case
is strong but evolutionary change that
what you do is you force within the
communist party
in a sense what you want is a gorbachev
i mean i’ve always felt that with the
change of the soviet union
i mean i worked for reagan i have a lot
of respect for him he deserves a lot of
credit with the cold war
but mikhail gorbachev was absolutely
he was the guy who in 1989
wanders around eastern europe saying the
soviet troops are staying in their
you know there’s the red army will not
save you
and that was absolutely vital because
you have all these communists still kind
satellite states none of these people
not only more suggestion
i mean other than the romanians just ask
you all of these guys are apparatchiks
right i mean they’re not gonna i mean
the idea of starting to have mass murder
i mean they realize they couldn’t rely
on their own troops
that gorbachev was the critical one
gorbachev is the one who says sakharov
come back from mexico i mean
gorbachev sets in process so to me
that’s probably your best choice here
you know an actual collapse of the
government fighting i mean i don’t think
we want
kind of a violent overthrow i think it
could be very messy who knows who wins
it’d be nice to see within the communist
party a move away from
the traditional very ruthless you know
authoritarian leadership
to an another i mean we’ve kind of hit a
younger generation
you know i mean canal diaz is the first
guy who’s been was uh born after the
revolution who’s
now in charge but he’s kind of an
apparatchik he’s kind of colorless
he’s pretty hard line we need somebody
we need i mean the cubans i mean this is
really up to the cubans and again
this is not something the u.s can force
the cubans need
somebody who looks out and says okay we
do have to change and is willing to
listen to them
so to me that would be that would be the
best case in my mind would be to see the
communist party say
we heard you okay now we’re going to
start moving on these things you start
opening up on some of the freedoms
opening up the economy these kinds of
things right
so this this actually just occurred to
me uh
do you see any correlation uh any
between this revolution and the one from
um hong kong in 2019 2019
like no i mean the problem the problem
on hong kong is that
we we tend to look at hong kong as if it
was a separate political entity but it
has always been under
the uh you know prc under the people’s
republic of china
right so and i think that was always the
great tragedy is you had within it
a lot of wonderful student activism and
we put up on on the cato website we had
a conversation
with two uh you know activists who here
in the us are essentially in exile
you know and i think it’s something we
everyone should be aware of it’s a great
is that they were in a sense revolting
against the local leadership but the
locals leadership really wasn’t in
it was always beijing in control so so
in cuba i mean
you’re dealing with the people who are
in charge i mean if you can force change
in havana you’ve got it
the problem in hong kong was any real
change had to come from beijing
and xi jinping is a very different guy
than the ones they’ve had before i mean
he’s much more ruthless
hard line cementing the role of the
party and i think that’s what the hong
kongers unfortunately ran into
that you know they ran into the guy who
was far more ruthless than anything they
was quite willing to bring the full
power of china down on them
as opposed to just hong kong you know
the nice thing in the sense about cuba
is there’s no soviet union behind it
you know there’s no kind of china there
standing over the shoulder who’s going i
mean that’s what you always had in
eastern europe
the soviets were behind these guys until
gorbachev gorbachev comes along and
suddenly it’s your job it’s not the
moscow’s job
so uh kind of spinning off of that like
you in
your article saying uh hating stupid
interventions does not require loving
if the milit if the united states and i
don’t agree with it but if the if the
united states ended up
using a military intervention in cuba
do you think a china or a russia would
and back them look at a map
you know uh cuba is 100 miles off the
coast of the united states right
no i mean the the the problem for the us
if you look at taiwan is taiwan’s the
reverse taiwan is 100 miles off the
coast of china
so when you hear americans talk about
defending china you have to think about
that geographically
the reality is cuba is not nearly
important enough for either russia or
okay it was a cold war asset for the
soviet union i mean that’s why they put
nukes there that’s why they wanted to
preserve it but in today’s world
no i mean it strikes me the russians are
much more regional power that’s why they
care about
ukraine they care about georgia it’s on
their border it’s their region
you know they play in the western
hemisphere to give us the trouble they
don’t play in it because it matters to
and cuba china’s the same way they like
economic engagement
they are not interested in going to war
with the u.s right next to the u.s
they would complain they would you know
they would criticize the us they would
political means to you know go after the
uh they would not i don’t think that i
don’t think they’d even give any arms or
anything i think that it would just be
no i mean the us has overwhelming force
you know we could blockade
the caribbean i mean there’s just no way
on that
so um what do you think the odds are
this revolt will end up strengthening
the communist government
in havana and they like kind of put down
an iron fist across all of cuba
well i don’t think it will now it may
cause them to crack down but i think
that’s different from strengthening the
okay i think what this has done is
exhibited across cuba
there is very strong frustration uh you
know the president
came on monday a four-hour meeting
brought along a lot of cabinet members
and had them all try to explain why the
areas that they were screwed up in
they were going to fix everything’s
going to be better you know we’re going
to make sure there’s electricity etc
and it wasn’t very believable i mean the
point is well you guys should have been
doing this before right
i mean if you can do this and fix this
stuff why is it a mess today
why should i believe that tomorrow it’s
going to be fixed you know and they
the the opposition out there it’s again
this they’re not just american flunkies
there’s a whole movement
out of artists started last year san
movement you know where you have a
number of artists who are protesting
they want freedom of expression
in terms of art you know these starts
that they were protesting outside
you know one of the ministries you know
so that was happening last year some of
them were arrested house arrest i mean
so the government has found this this is
well beyond
you know some you know kind of you know
right wingers who happen to love the
united states
this is a much broader sense so i think
the government is going to come out of
this weekend
even though in the short term they may
very well crack down
more people in jail etc but i think over
the long term this will undermine them
because if they don’t respond to these
uh they’re gonna build i mean if you
don’t fix the economy you don’t fix the
power system you know next week next
year it’s gonna be even worse
yeah it’s it’s bizarre to see uh the
of the united states and cuba where you
have in cuba you have these artists and
people who
in the united states are traditionally
very left-wing and they’re fighting for
more freedom of expression and more
rights and more ability to
do their craft and here in the united
states you have
all these artists who are literally
to have less freedom of expression less
freedom of speech
and they are backing the quote-unquote
of other people while the people in cuba
are like no let us
let us put what we want let us say what
we want without fear of
being taken and uh never seen again
it’s just a strange dichotomy between
the two
who are
coming from the same viewpoint
well i mean i think the frustration is
if you lose it
you know if you don’t have it you
understand what you’ve lost
you know i mean if you i mean you find a
communist emigration i mean i i collect
military art
i have some you know russians who i’ve
bought some russian military art from
and i mean they came from russia so
they’re constantly complaining about why
in america are we doing this
you know we wanted to escape this right
you know
i mean because they grew up in the
soviet union they understood i mean they
paid that price they came to america for
the freedom and then they could
see the us doing things they’re just
saying we don’t we don’t get this
so i think that’s a lot of the problem
for the left is that in you know
they see the things they like and they
choose not to believe the things they
don’t like
means i was on a tv show i mentioned
this in my article
and with a per one of the people’s talk
referring to russia and china as being
anti-imperialist regimes
well i mean like i don’t want war with
either one of them but to act as if
these are somehow
you know showcases of liberalism real i
mean human rights oh
please i mean you know and and that’s
how can somebody on the left say this
about these
so to me again there’s a tendency of
hating american intervention so much
that one wants to demonize america and
and kind of elevate and say nice things
about the place where the u.s
is involved i mean saddam hussein was a
monster i mean our intervention there
was an absolute catastrophe i mean
hundreds of thousands of iraqis died
i think it was you know i mean the
impact on the region was i mean beyond
but that doesn’t mean saddam hussein was
a nice guy i mean i don’t think we
should be bombing iran but
i mean the mullahs i mean this regime
this is a nasty
so so i think there’s that tendency
where you
it’s easy to start thinking you’re
supporting the good guys
even if in fact no they aren’t i mean
we’re simply saying well you guys
shouldn’t do this stuff
you don’t have to say the other folks
are nice so um
i was i was watching a video the other
day with a yemeni park
the woman who uh escaped uh north korea
and she was saying she always dreamed of
having a safe place to be able to
express herself freely and
you know be able to say whatever she
wanted without fear of the government
and then she came here and she goes to
and they have these safe spaces where
they’re saying you can’t say what you
nobody’s allowed to say what they want
there unless you agree with like and
she said i don’t understand why people
are this way here like
and she essentially summed it up by
saying people just want what they don’t
and it yeah there’s a lot of that i mean
jonathan roush has a wonderful new book
uh you know i think it’s the constant
the constitution of knowledge maybe
you know kind of looking at the whole
issue of welcome and stuff i mean and
john i mean it’s a wonderful effort
looking at this kind of cancer culture
and they
you know there was a small seminar we
were on via zoom and the question was
what’s more dangerous in a sense is it
maga is it woke them i mean where do you
and and i think the problem with what we
see on this kind of woken stuff and the
other safe spaces and the
canceled culture is in a sense some on
the left
these days you know basically attack
that is liberalism wanted a free mind
liberalism was free expression
liberalism was that you should be able
to have this battle
of ideas and that we often look at the
right so
that of the extreme right that’s where
the danger is well today we see the real
danger on the left i think
that’s what she ran into i mean i’ve
never understood the notion that
i should be afraid of ideas i mean a lot
of ideas out there i don’t like
but i’m in that world my my job is to
fight them it’s to listen to them to
understand them
i mean i read stuff on the left and on
the right i want to understand where the
arguments are
if we give that up we lose so much and
then suddenly yeah that does kind of
look like a north korea everybody has to
say what you’re supposed to say
everything’s choreographed we love the
great leader you know well
look at who wants to be there right so
um before i let you go because i i know
you’re on a time schedule today but
before i let you go
um how would you define the us’s role
in everything going on and what do you
think it should be
well the u.s clearly has an impact that
is american sanctions do make things
uh i mean i don’t think the problem is i
view it as
ultimately extraordinarily immoral to
the way to get you know change in
government is to
impoverish people who are already
hurting that’s essentially what u.s
sanctions policy is
that what we’re applying to cuba does
not just hurt you know the elite
i mean it hurts everybody i mean that
you know the fact that they
you know i mean fuel i mean all these
sorts of things we see that elsewhere i
mean if
we have a policy for example where the
trump administration was very explicit
in syria we want to prevent
you know the way to hurt assad is to
prevent people in a country that’s been
at war for 10 years from reconstruction
i mean to me this is grotesque and it
kind of goes back to
the famous episode back when madeleine
albright was asked about a half million
iraqi babies dying as a result of
sanctions are can be killers her
response was we
think the price is worth it well who are
who are we to decide that the price of
killing a half million babies is
and so so i think that we should step
away from
you know there’s you can try to apply
sanctions on leaders they have the
magnitsky act
you know and i’m quite happy if you can
target the right people i mean
that is the evil people the people who
are decision-makers
fined by me don’t expect that to change
the policy but these people deserve to
be hurt
but i’d say so the what the us has been
doing for 60 years
i mean it may have made sense during the
cold war you’re concerned about the
soviet union you’re concerned about an
alliance relationship
that close to the u.s but that ended in
you know the night or you know not late
1980s early 1990s
what have we been doing for the 30 years
since it simply makes no sense so we
shouldn’t have the sanctions
so there’s a reason to criticize the us
for that
but it strikes me the main problem with
the sanctions in many ways was it
allowed the castro regime to blame in
the us for their own failures
that ultimately what we have there is a
dictatorship that’s collectivist
that has you know messed up the economy
sanctions have made it worse
but saying without sanctions the economy
would still be a mess people would still
be poor
so the ultimate blame goes on you know
the regime itself
and even if you like their economics
there’s no excuse for the political
this is a dictatorship people can’t vote
for their leadership
they can’t say what they want about the
leadership you know they can’t leave if
they you know the leadership doesn’t
want them to
you know why would anyone on the left
support that kind of a policy i don’t
get it
i don’t either um one last question
because i’ve seen a people a couple of
people ask it in the comments here
uh what’s the likelihood that biden
repeals proclamation six eight six seven
well biden has been very very cautious
on almost everything
right uh you know i mean one problem
with of course the sanctions is a lot of
them are statutory
so if you’re kind of looking at the kind
of the broad range of what the us
has done you know congress has
implemented a lot of them and what we’ve
seen is
you know obama you know pulled the
number off he was quite popular in
cuba when i was there it was fall 2017
you know people had decals on their cars
pictures of obama
because he he was really an inspiration
to them again this i think
shows how when you want to sanction and
isolate a place you completely miss it
that him going there was a threat to the
regime the regime was very unhappy
because they could see his popularity
millions of people coming out to see him
you know i mean that that scared them
you know so
i think that he had i think the right
idea but even he was limited he was
he didn’t do it until his second term
etc biden at the moment has done
nothing in making any changes in cuba
uh it and my guess is that there may
be some that will come but who knows
what it’ll be i mean you know because
there are all sorts of little things he
can do you know you have remittances
and we may you know limits on
remittances from you know cuban
americans the question of who can travel
you know see i my guess is you’re going
to see some very small changes i don’t
this administration doesn’t seem to be
one that’s going to make
any grand and look if you’re worried
about the right you’re worried about
being accused of being soft on communism
it’s much harder to pull off sanctions
after these kind of
you know protests and i mean of course
that’s the wrong attitude to have we
should be encouraging liberalization
there we want more people to go in
we want to undermine the system we want
ideas to flow we want people there
but i’m afraid this administration is
likely to again be very very cautious so
i’m not i wouldn’t make any predictions
on any particular change i think we’ll
see some small
changes but i i’d hesitate to predict
what they’ll be
fair well again thank you so much for
coming on i really appreciate it i know
that you
you’re on a schedule and um i’m just
glad that you were able to carve out
some of your day to come on and talk to
um yeah yeah anytime you want to come on
just let us know
and you are always welcome i appreciate
yeah no absolutely and um i am certain i
will talk to you again
very soon but thank you oh uh the
article’s name is hating stupid
interventions does not require loving
uh it came out today it’s in the
american conservative i’m gonna
add the uh link to the comments here in
just a second
but uh go check it out it’s a fantastic
article it’s a great read
um ladies and gentlemen thank doug
bandau joined me today and i’m honestly
gushing a little bit
but i’m okay with it but thank you doug
i will um
i will see you again very soon sounds
very good you have a good one now you
take care bye
oh my goodness i’m not gonna lie people
uh that
was a true honor for me to have him on
the show
um but yeah like he was saying on
sanctions uh which i just want to talk
uh years ago years ago long before i
even got involved in politics i was
um as i am want to do
and i was writing a poetry book
that you might be able to find online if
you try hard enough um
but um i was writing a poetry book and
i have a line in there talking about
sanctions and how sanctions don’t hurt
the people in power they only hurt the
uh the people on the ground uh and it’s
whenever you put sanctions on a country
the the people in power don’t feel it
it’s the people that are you know the
the citizens of the country that are the
ones that get hurt by it
and these are these are the people
you’re not trying to hurt
and the idea that they’re going to get
upset and
rush to rush to
get rid of the government is not what’s
going to happen instead
the the people in power gain more and
more power and the people
uh the citizens of the country end up
falling by the wayside getting hungrier
and continually losing
now after 61 years potentially they rise
up and
uh try to do some sort of uh overthrow
of the government but we don’t know if
that’s gonna work
and is it worth it is it worth the lives
that are lost and to madeleine albright
and her
ilk yeah absolutely it is but to you
you to me to anybody else who has a soul
uh no that’s not okay like we should not
uh dealing out the millions of deaths
these sanctions cause uh just because
we’re trying to prove a point to those
in charge
um but yeah so uh
i’ve got a little bit of time left so
i’m gonna go through the sponsors if
anybody has any questions for me shoot
them in they uh
shoot them in the comments here but
let’s go through our sponsors today
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let’s see i saw a couple of questions
what’s your favorite food to go with
whatever’s closest typically is my
favorite food to go with mayo
obviously a bacon cheeseburger is like
one of the better things philly cheese
steak also one of the better things
anything with a lot of meat is great but
i am willing to put it on pretty much
anything now
people are gonna say that this is weird
if you take two slices of whatever your
favorite kind of bread is
on one of them you put peanut butter the
other one you put mayo
put those bad boys together fantastic
it is the best post-workout snack you
can possibly get
you get your fats you get your proteins
you get your carbs it is amazing
um if you were a mayo which brand uh i’m
seeing a theme if you were a mayo which
brand would you likely identify as
uh that would be dukes there is no other
real question i even have a tattooed
right here
um duke’s mayo is the premier mayo that
is not cupe mayo uh and if you uh
haven’t tried it you definitely should
vodka does not taste like potatoes but
it could taste like pure alcohol and
burning um
that’s why i don’t drink it that’s one
of the many reasons i don’t drink it
but um
dave’s killer bro yeah dave’s killer
bread excellent uh dave’s killer bread
is great stuff
and uh the guy who created it when he
was on spike’s show that was one of the
uplifting shows that i have ever seen um
that guy was amazing that guy
i’m blanking on his name right now but
uh yeah no that guy was fantastic
um how often do you use mayo
and non-food related activities whenever
super fan sarah andrag will let me which
means never
never although fun fact mayo will
also uh get stickers off of
your car like when you get the if you
put a sticker on your bumper
and you use mayo it’ll peel it off
without any issue um
but yeah so i would honestly to have
doug come on the show was uh
was a huge one for me i was very excited
to have him on
on to be able to talk about uh
talk about everything going on in cuba
i’m still shocked he came um
that’s what she said uh but uh
i’m honestly blown away that he uh took
the time to come on my show
uh i’ve been a fan of his for years um
when when will we have an interview with
the ceo of dukes may i
i don’t know talk to brian talk to brian
lambrecht he’s the one that does my
booking if you want to reach him it’s uh
thank you jason jason lyon the bearded
truth said it was fantastic uh an
amazing interview
and uh liberty shamrocker uh connie says
she fangirls over doug great interview
thank you all very much
um people are saying that’s absolutely
disgusting i’m assuming that’s to the
peanut butter and mayo thing
and i’m telling you people don’t knock
it till you try it go have a really big
workout work up a nice good sweat
burn a bunch of calories go home and try
it it is the
greatest post workout snack ever um
dave dahl yeah thank you janice mckenzie
appreciate that dave dahl
um but yeah so i’ve got about 15 minutes
um is there any stories anybody wants to
about my life because i am willing to
tell you pretty much anything
um pretty much
anything about uh what it is
about me that sarah’s terrified
and she locked the door um
but yeah if you have any questions i’m
here to answer them uh
because i’ve got a little bit of time oh
i remember
you want to hear about the path from the
start of muddied waters to today
all right i can do that so
would i visit alaska again yes i would
absolutely visit alaska again it would
just have to be in the summer
um so muddied waters
started because
i was getting well known in the pinellas
county area
as a libertarian to know because i
joined the libertarian party of pinellas
county and i went from being
just a member to secretary to treasurer
to vice chair
in a year um
and tell us about spike’s mixtape you’re
never gonna find it that’s what i can
tell you
um but i made it up to
vice chair in like a year and worked
hard was at the events
was writing article after article
sending out the press releases i was
doing as much as i possibly could
and then on top of it uh kratom which
uh it goes very well with cava
i was actually drinking kratom before i
was drinking cabba
kratom was at risk of being banned here
in the state
there was a group of people who were
trying to ban it because of
a young man who unfortunately uh killed
himself and his mom blamed the kratom
that’s a story for a different day it’s
not why that’s 100
not why he did it we know why he did it
um and it had nothing to do with the
um he uh
so i was going up to the state
legislature and i was
talking about why you shouldn’t get rid
of kratom and
it turned out that well they didn’t they
voted it down
thanks to thanks a lot to my state
senator who said why are we even talking
about this
this makes no sense let them drink
kratom if they want to
and uh one of the uh state reps
who is my i don’t know if he’s my no
he’s not my state rep he’s
slightly further north um he was
one of the people who co-signed on the
bill in the house and then he re he
pulled it
uh after he realized that so much of the
support for it was coming from his
county so he pulled his support and then
he said i used to vote against seat belt
and i said yeah but you stopped uh but
so i was making a small name for myself
locally and there was another guy whose
was muhammad muhammad shaker he had been
on cnn four times
and people were telling him he needed to
start a podcast
and so he came to me and said hey you
and i should do a podcast together and i
said no
i don’t want to do that that sounds like
a whole lot of work for not a lot of
and i was right that’s a whole lot of
work for not a lot of money
so if anybody out there wants to uh
make that slightly more worth it you can
just go to anchor dot
fm slash muddied waters to leave a
message that spike and i will play on
tuesdays and you can donate to make it
slightly more worth it for me to do all
this work
um and he said no it’ll be fun you know
we’ll do it once a week
still once a week uh we’ll do it once a
week and you know we’ll stick
and it’ll be great and i said after
months of him working on me i finally
said okay
and we started the first episode is
called matinmo
season one episode one uh you can find
it on anchor dot fm slash muddied waters
i don’t recommend listening to it it was
not good
um it was we were filled with a bunch of
nerves just balls of nerves
and uh we’re very quiet and our audio
absolutely terrible um
and as we started learning how to do
things we started talking to different
podcasters who were helping us out
uh who are helping us out on how to
improve our audio
and the entire time he’s going we just
need to do video we need to do video
we need to do video and i think around
episode 26 i agreed
and we started doing video the first
person we had on was alexander
nicker alexander snicker who is now the
of alex and adrian’s unattended baggage
he was the former vice chair of the
libertarian party of florida he ran for
senate back in 2012 as a libertarian
and he was the executive director of the
republican liberty caucus
up until about a year ago he was there
from like 2017 until
2020 or something along those lines um
great guy good friend of mine he lives
here local uh love
love the man to death he’s hilarious uh
even if people hate him
um and if people hate him he’s actually
uh and the show
was going through its ups and downs we
were having our issues
uh and me and the original co-host we
were having our
issues because one of us wanted to put
all of the work and the other one didn’t
want to show up uh
you can take your guesses on who those
who took each role because
i’m not here to out anybody um
so we uh
so we um continued doing the show like
there were weeks that we wouldn’t have
it there were spans of time
that we wouldn’t have it and then we’d
come back and we’d do a show and
it was great and it was like therapy for
me and i loved it
um i still love it but it was like
therapy for me and we
would do it and then he and i just kept
fighting about
the fact that one of us didn’t want to
show up all the time
and he disappeared on me
for quite some time at one point and i
upset and i ended up taking a job in
because i was tired of doing all the
work for muddied waters
um so i went to alaska for a summer and
i said hey while i’m gone
keep the show running like just get
guests do interviews you know do
what i do on thursdays now and he said
i’ll do that and he didn’t i think he
had one show
while i was gone and i came back and i
was kind of seeing the writing on the
so i said okay this is what i have to do
i don’t know if muddied waters of
the show is going to survive
uh him leaving if he decides to leave
um so i asked spike spike cohen you may
have heard of him
um he hosts uh the wednesday show
my fellow americans you may have heard
of it you may have seen i don’t know
um he’s about yay tall paler than me
anyway uh he um i asked him if he wanted
to do a show
and he was very excited about this
prospect and he said yes absolutely i
would love to do a show
um and he had guest hosted before one
time when my co-host hadn’t shown up
and he did a fantastic job and i knew
that he’d be great at it so i said hey
do you want to do this and he said yeah
and so he started doing my fellow
americans on
july 4th three years ago 2017. or no
2018. sorry
2018. um and so i was doing the writer’s
block and muddied waters of freedom
he was doing uh my fellow americans and
our my co-host at the time was showing
up sporadically
um and then he decided that my co-host
is he decided that he was going to quit
and he
pulled me aside and he was like hey look
i just need to quit it’s not
it’s nothing personal against you i just
i can’t do it
and it’s too much and i said okay no
that’s fine
you know i get it and you know we’re
always gonna be friends
and we’re always gonna be friends and i
appreciate you coming and telling me
he said great you know that’s awesome so
uh i took a couple of weeks off from
muddied waters of freedom i was still
doing the writer’s block
and uh i had i
ended up having to go to a yao khan and
reston with the republican liberty
uh caucus and uh while i was there i was
doing a lot of thinking trying to figure
which way to take it is this something i
even wanted to continue to do
was it worth it uh muhammad
was uh he was a name in the liberty
in 2016. and he
i was afraid that without him on the
then there would be no reason for this
show people wouldn’t watch
like who wants to sit there and watch me
um i’ve got numerous people
in the comments right now
who’s apparently that you do and thank
but at the time i was like who wants to
watch me they’re coming to watch him i’m
the one that you know kind of does the
notes and produces everything like
it’s not really worth it uh so spike and
had to talk and i was like i don’t know
what to do but
if i continue with muddied waters of
freedom i know i want you
to be the co-host and he was like yeah
no i would love to
um i think that’d be great and i was
like but that would mean we’re doing two
shows a week
and he said no that’s fine and he was
like i’m retired what else do i have to
and i was like that’s a good point um
so we started doing that in september of
september of 18 he and i started doing
and even then like it wasn’t the easiest
time for us
um you know there were times that we
didn’t want to do it and we wanted to
nights off but we still showed up and
tried to make the show as entertaining
as possible sometimes to six people
i remember there was a night it was
it was the night of the
state of the union uh trump’s state of
the union
and we got so excited
because 41 people were watching us do it
41 people watching us live and
spike texted me in the middle of the
show to be like
41 people are watching us and like i
remember this feeling of just
nervous energy inside of me and i was
terrified that i was going to do or say
something so idiotic
that these 41 people would no longer
want to watch
um and we got through it and you know
people continued some people continue
watching like we went up we went down
um and then spike got the
call from vermin supreme to find out if
he wanted to be his running mate
so vermin had been on spike’s show my
fellow americans
and uh they had a good time and then uh
jason lyon i forgot about jason uh mr
i didn’t forget about jason i just
forgot the timeline uh so we
we discovered this podcast of this guy
uh going by mr bearded truth mr america
uh mr america the beard of truth um
and he was doing a show on tuesday
nights and on one of his shows
this dumbass he said hey guys uh
if you’re here uh with me you know i’m
really glad you’re here but
uh you might want to check out muddied
waters of freedom these guys are great
and we ended up hearing it
and we listened to a couple of his shows
and then
i messaged him one night and i said hey
do you just want to join muddied waters
and he got giddy literally giddy
he giggled he giggled
everybody next time that he has a show
remind him that he
giggled when i asked asked him if he
wanted to be part of muddied waters
um and with him uh becoming part of
muddy waters
spike and i got the opportunity to host
the presidential debates
at the libertarian party of south
carolina’s convention
at the libertarian party of south
carolina’s convention uh
i’m not gonna get into why you never saw
that episode
jason understands brent de ritter
spike cohen understands um
shane sweeney understands
the gravy king understands but i’m not
gonna get into it
um but so we went up there
and spike and i were staying with vermin
which if you’ve never stayed in an
airbnb with vermin supreme i highly
recommend it like
that’s a wild time uh that’s just a
crazy time that’s just
good good fun for anybody
highly recommend two thumbs up uh much
better than titanic
uh but he so they started getting this
rapport and it was great and we were
having so much fun
and uh then vermin says hey do you want
to be my running mate
except he probably said hey kids do you
want to be my running mate
and uh spike was like yeah no that
sounds great um
and uh so we uh spike was like yeah and
he called me he’s like yeah do you do
you care if i do this and i was like
no why would i care absolutely you
should do this
how many times do you get to say i ran
for vice president of the united states
two three maybe four in your lifetime
you may as well take it while you got
the chance
um and in all honesty i wanted to see
how badly it was gonna go
it’s like when you’re a kid and you’re
like hey
or one of your friends like hey you
think i can make this jump and you’re
like yeah
and then you’re going no i want to see
how bad you’re going to get injured
i didn’t want to see him get injured but
i wanted to see what was going to happen
because it wasn’t what happened that was
not what i had
envisioned personally um
and uh so he was running
and i’ve i had to take on a lot of the
workload because
he was busy running for vice president
and uh so i took on a lot of the
workload um
jason unfortunately he started going
through some stuff which it’s not my
business so i’m not gonna tell it but
i’m so glad that he is back
doing his show again uh is every show he
is better than the one before it and
that’s amazing because i was impressed
like unbelievably impressed when i saw
him the first time
and he just continues getting better and
was running with vermin supreme and
people would come on and make fun of us
say really disgusting things on the
anchor dot fm slash muddied waters colin
um the chris reynolds anchor dot fm
muddied waters calling moment um but
uh so it was
it was a weird time like we were going
through some weird growing pains
uh during this time period and we didn’t
know how any of it was going to end
um and we were kind of waiting to see
what would happen at the libertarian
convention back in 2020 and we’re
sitting there
and i’m not there because covid uh i was
my house here in saint pete and spike
was in south carolina and jason was
probably in south carolina i didn’t talk
to him that day
um and we were all of us
just had this weird nervous
there was a nervous cloud across all of
us and
it was just like what’s gonna happen
what is going to happen
and you’re watching the votes come in
it’s like who’s going to make it who’s
going to make it and
you see joe jorgensen win
and i’m not gonna lie
in that moment i thought well i’m not
voting for president this year because
no way i’m voting for her and if anybody
wants to know why
it’s because when she was asked about
sex work she refused to answer the
question because she said the american
people don’t
care about it she changed her answer
later on but the first time that she was
asked that question while running for
president that is
that was her response and somebody
challenged her on it and said what if
cnn asked you that question would you
not answer and she goes no i wouldn’t
and i went
well this woman i will never vote for um
and i was like okay well not gonna vote
for this woman
it was like that thing where it’s like
i’m not going to do this
and mine was i’m not going to vote for
this woman unless spikes are running me
and i was like yeah but honestly
what are the odds that my goofy
co-host who before all this vice
presidential stuff started happening
was the comic relief on the show and i
was the straight man
what are the odds this guy’s gonna get
nominated like the people that
the libertarian party is gonna end up
going with like john mons or
um ken armstrong or somebody along those
lines of course they’re gonna go was the
respectable person not
my goofy co-host
and i was wrong i’m not wrong when it
comes to elections
all that much you know it might be off
you know a point here there but i was
wrong here
um i was very wrong
um and uh
he ended up getting the nomination
things started blowing our
our website crashed multiple times
because we just didn’t have the
bandwidth for it
the growth was exponential right out the
right out the gate and suddenly
everything that we said was being put
under a microscope by everybody across
the country
everything that i said i one time on a
said the people from tsa
were the people who were kicked out of
uh the
the the i can’t remember what it’s
called the catholic divinity school
because they were good enough at
molesting children
all of this was being held under a
but that did not stop us and how we took
and how we handled our show in the way
that we presented it
because we wanted to make sure that the
people who were watching it
were getting the uh this
getting the news in a satirical funny
way so
that way they would be able to look at
it and at least get a good laugh
while we were uh while the entire ship
is going down well you know the
we’re the band on the titanic the
playing while it’s going down
like we’re just having fun whilst
everything is sinking
um and we’re going to continue doing
that because that is who we are as
uh and we want to make sure that at
least we’re having fun
um and we want you to have fun anytime
you come um
so the show the show was picking up and
uh spike was out doing the vp
thing and he was you know i’m i’m
streaming i’m doing the website
uh and if anybody wants to do the
website shoot me a message because we
way behind um but
spica was out doing the vp thing he’s
touring the country
i’m doing all the muddied water stuff
we’re trying to make sure that the
show’s still good i’m putting together
the notes and i’m just kind of filling
them in by text message on
what to expect um i’m
jason he’s on hiatus
uh but i’m keeping in touch with him
making sure he’s doing all right
um and we were
we were just trying to make it through
till the election just to see what would
just to see what would happen because
there were there were days where
i was tired and i was beaten down and
i was just like man we just got to keep
going and then we did the presidential
where spike and i had the presidential
debates on and we made everybody upset
but we had thousands of people watching
and remember earlier when i said the
uh spike texted me because we had 41
people watching us
41 people watching us and i had this
huge knot of nervous energy in my
i had thousands of people watching me
for the presidential debate
felt nothing like i had never been
so calm and collected um sarah says that
that’s a lie because
she said that i was vaping like
but i remember that moment thinking i do
not feel nearly as nervous as i did
when i did the uh when it when we did
the state of the union and 41 people
were watching us
now we have thousands of people watching
and i’m
i’m i feel good like i feel great um
and the show has continued to grow like
a lot of people fell
off after the election because that’s
what happens with politics
every four years you get the people that
come out of the woodwork and they come
and they check stuff out especially
we’ve got the podcast with the vice
presidential nominee for the libertarian
yeah of course we’re going to get a
swell of people checking us out
and then after the election was over
yeah they’re going to fall off
but a lot of them stayed a lot of you
may not have heard of us until then and
you know what
god bless you for sticking around
because you are the people that we do
this for the people who understand the
humor the people that understand what it
is we’re trying to do
you are the people that we do it for and
you guys
make it worth it like all of you the
people there are people who have been
paying attention to this show listening
to the show watching the show
since episode one and those people i’m
impressed by that they continue to stick
through it and they love it and they
i’ll get messages and they’re telling me
how much they love what’s been going on
with the show and
how much it’s grown and how much better
it is than it was at the very beginning
and i’m like well yeah because
i had no idea what i was doing um
but it is
i don’t know if you’re gonna how many
people will understand this
i never knew that this was my dream
until i started doing it
and everything and every time that i
come on the air and people are watching
and people are paying attention and
commenting and especially the people who
you know
uh donate uh but
you guys make this so
unfathomable as something that i
actually get to do for
my life um and it’s
truly humbling that i actually get to do
this that i get to sit here
on tuesdays and thursdays and uh anytime
somebody wants me to come on their show
and just talk to you guys about politics
about stuff that i would be talking with
spike about
on the phone anyway or over facebook
never knew that this is what i wanted to
do like i was like i’m a writer and i’m
gonna write books and novels like jack
casey without the head of hair and uh
that’s what i’m gonna do for my life and
yeah like that would be a that’s a great
dream and i
would be totally okay with that but the
fact that i get to do this with you
every week uh is
there is no greater thing in the world
that i could possibly be doing
than this because i get to spend every
tuesday and every thursday with all of
the people who watch
and all the people who are entertained
and all the people who are educated
you people make it worth it for me
for anybody who’s like wow i didn’t know
that thank you um
or the people who were like man that was
funny as crap and that’s not even the
funny one
or the people who are like wow that show
was really well written and put together
you’re welcome that’s all me um
yeah cajun i wasn’t he says he was a
musician right like i would
i was a writer like i’ve got i’ve got
two books
uh dear jack diary of an addict which
came out
six years ago six and a half years ago
and uh can you keep a secret which came
in 2017 or 18
and i’ve got another two that i wrote a
while ago that
might get released at some point um
but in all honesty
that was my dream for a very long time
was to be a writer to be an author to
write books
and i did it i did it i wrote books
and it was great now they didn’t sell
they did not sell well at all but uh
you know they’re they’re out there and
people can buy them if they want to and
if they don’t want to
hey whatever like i basically did it
just to prove to myself that i could do
it and i could achieve that dream
and now i have to do well
now i have this dream now i have this
dream and i get to make this dream come
on a scale that i never thought was
possible with anything i’ve ever done
and every tuesday and every thursday and
apparently the occasional saturday i get
to make
this dream come true and
there is nothing else in this world i
would rather be doing
if you would have asked me this show’s
five years old
okay so if you would have asked me five
years ago when i started this show if i
thought we were gonna make it past seven
episodes i would have been like
hell to the note we’re not gonna make it
past seven episodes
because for anybody who doesn’t know
ninety percent of podcasts stopped doing
it after
before the seventh episode never thought
we were gonna
be in that top uh top ten percent
never thought that was going to happen
but here we are like this is episode
i think this is episode 53 i think i
didn’t do the numbers right on it
um i think this is episode 53 of this
show 204 of the muddied waters of
of which i have been on all of them but
um spike’s got 101 episodes
of my fellow era 103 104
episodes of my fellow americans and
jason well he’s on episode two of
the rebrand uh but i think he was at
35 when he had to take his break um
i don’t remember exactly off the top of
my head and now we have cajun and eskimo
who are closing out our weeks on fridays
with a fantastic show that is
and funny and well thought out if eskimo
did the notes
and the fact that i was able to bring
this muddied waters the fact that i was
able to bring muddy waters which is
literally named
after this disgusting drink that i drink
all day
every day the fact that i brought
muddied waters and put it out there to
the world and now
monday through friday people can tune in
eight o’clock or nine o’clock eastern
and watch uh people talking about
and freedom and how we can make a
i’m just like having this moment of holy
crap i actually did that
and like it’s never like people tell me
and i’m just like yeah whatever like
i didn’t do anything i liked it i just
started talking to a mic
and now we have this fantastic
slate of shows with great liberty loving
people who love freedom
and [ __ ] me
honestly people uh you guys are the ones
that i do it for and
um i thank you to all of you who tune in
thank you to all of you who donate
um you guys are honestly
you’re the real ones uh
i figured i was gonna be done early
tonight and i just took that story
to uh 45 minutes um
yeah the story the realization of what
you created is finally yes it is
because i it has not occurred to me
telling this story right now um
so tomorrow
at 9 30 eastern
on friday night on friday night we have
cajun eskimo from uh from bayous to
premiering on this friday night now on
on a new night on friday night this is
the new
what the [ __ ] was the what what what the
[ __ ] was it called on friday nights
you know with are you afraid of the dark
and family matters
and and
step by step and all that
why can i not remember this because i’m
old enough to remember it that’s why i
can’t remember it
um tgif the new tgif
is cajun and eskimo from bayous to
igloos starting at 9
30 freedom time also known as eastern
time and not that
kami illinois time um
so be sure to tune in for that i am
certain that whatever eskimo has is
going to be
exceptionally well thought out and
prepared and planned
and whatever cajun has is gonna be
in a completely different way then on
monday we have jason lyon
coming back uh with
with mr america the bearded truth at
eight o’clock on monday
8 p.m eastern on monday then next
right here spike and myself
will be parsing through the news like
2020 wonder boys that we are
with a brand new episode of muddied
waters of freedom
uh with a brand new episode of muddy
waters of freedom uh
which i am definitely which i am
definitely looking forward to oh and i’m
streaming that episode because spike
spike is going to be at freedom fest in
south dakota
oh yeah and spike’s here spikes in
spike’s like literally 20 minutes for me
right now
uh for the shooting event with the
philosopher in spite cohen tomorrow
and or sorry saturday in uh tarpon
at the reload gun range uh it’s
this is a whole week of liberty that you
guys are gonna get a chance to get
to hear about to get a peek of to be
around i honestly
super excited for all of it that’s
happening uh i look forward to
all of next week i look forward to
tomorrow with cajun eskimo
thank you everybody if you want to find
us online go to
muddiedwaters you can leave us messages
that we will play on tuesday night and
you can donate
and you don’t have to donate for us to
play your messages but
we’re gonna like you more um and then
tune in literally every day people
there is not a day that you will not
catch something from us
and i don’t mean that as an std i mean
that as
liberty so have a
have a [ __ ] great weekend and tune in
to cajun and esco tomorrow night
i will see you all soon oh fun fact of
the week
fun fact of the week uh dogs will smell
start smelling with their left nostril
for whether or not they like it
and then they will smell with their
right nostril to find out if it is
something that they should be afraid of
and if it’s if it’s not they will go
back to the left nostril
to let you know that they like it keep
that in mind
if a dog going straight to the right
nostril on you run
uh have a great weekend i will talk to
you all later
i don’t need anybody’s
must be
i will be
i don’t need anybody’s

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Jason Lyon
Jason Lyon
Jason Lyon - USN Submarine Vet -Minarchist/Constitutionalist - #Liberty advocate - Principles over party - Constitution over Idolatry
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