The Wrighter’s Block Episode 36 – Hannah Cox Gets Wrighter’s Block

The Wrighter's Block


About This Episode


Hannah Cox from the Conservatives Concerned About the Death Penalty comes on with Matt to discuss about the death penalty and different projects CCADP is working on.

Kava from State Side Kava

Music by the Narcissist Cookbook


Episode Transcript

DISCLOSURE
This episode transcript is auto-generated and a provided as a service to the hearing impaired. We apologize for any errors or inaccuracies.
FULL TRANSCRIPT TEXT
02:03
[Music]
02:06
oh all right put down your pens foot
02:11
down your pencil step away from the
02:12
keyboards and settle in for this week’s
02:14
episode of the writer’s block
02:15
first and foremost allow me to thank Don
02:18
ins Sally right for giving birth to me
02:20
because without them none of this would
02:21
be possible also thanks to muddied
02:23
waters media for allowing me to do this
02:25
show and yes I understand the irony
02:26
because it’s my company and finally
02:31
allow me to thank stateside cava for the
02:33
kaabah that I am drinking on today’s
02:34
episode to everybody above bula vinaka
02:39
today I’m very happy to bring on my
02:41
guest
02:42
she is Hannah Cox she is the national
02:45
manager of conservatives concerned about
02:47
the death penalty she was previously
02:49
director of outreach for the beacon
02:50
Center of Tennessee a free-market
02:52
think-tank and before that she was the
02:55
director of development for the for the
02:58
Tennessee firearms Association and a
03:00
policy advocate for the National
03:02
Alliance on Mental Illness
03:04
she has a Newsmax column called life and
03:07
liberty so check that out allow me to
03:10
welcome on my guest Miss Hannah Cox
03:13
Hannah thank you so much for coming on
03:15
how are you today thanks for having me
03:17
I’m good I’m house-sitting for my
03:19
parents right now in South Carolina so
03:20
I’ve got a lot more space than I’m used
03:22
to this week and I’m loving it yeah
03:24
that’s amazing that half of so muddied
03:27
waters a
03:28
muddied waters media right now consists
03:30
of me
03:31
spike Cohen who hosts my fellow
03:34
Americans on Wednesday and Jason Lyons
03:37
who hosts mr. America the bearded truth
03:40
on Mondays and Fridays they’re both in
03:42
South Carolina and I’m here in Florida
03:44
so like most of this company is located
03:47
where you are right now covered yeah
03:51
so you and I met at yell Con in Reston
03:58
Virginia in DC last in the last summer I
04:02
don’t remember what it was exactly right
04:05
yes those past mats issue but there is a
04:13
relatively decent chance that we have
04:16
crossed paths
04:18
before and probably multiple times
04:22
probably very often now that you may get
04:25
this connection for me because you used
04:26
to work it what is arguably one of my
04:28
favorite restaurants in Nashville and
04:30
where I wish I didn’t have to admit I
04:32
spent as much time as I did but I’m
04:34
there
04:35
it’s called mafiosos and I love the
04:37
Mafia I’m very fascinated by it so that
04:39
not alone brought me in and then it was
04:40
sort of a libertarian hangout you know
04:43
at a month first libertarian groups
04:45
Larry on the rocks
04:46
and then also they just have amazing
04:49
pizza they have two per ones on Tuesday
04:51
night so yeah for the past twelve years
04:52
since college I’ve been a lot of money
04:54
there yeah
04:55
but Tuesday nights were the bane of my
04:57
existence I can’t even imagine like and
05:01
this is probably going to be the least
05:02
libertarian thing I’ve ever ever gonna
05:05
say on any show that we have on the on
05:09
this channel but there were Tuesday
05:12
nights where I considered learning how
05:14
to pickpocket
05:15
so when you would go through the large
05:17
crowds of people I would just start
05:19
taking wallets from people because I
05:21
hated every college kid that was in
05:23
there yeah well you know back in the day
05:26
when I was in college Nashville was so
05:27
small it didn’t have that many
05:29
restaurants it’s ER who else did
05:31
two-for-one right I’m Lenny so it was
05:34
you went on Tuesday night there was a
05:36
cop yes I remember people leaves to ID
05:39
you to get in and make sure you were one
05:41
it was a thing to come on yeah that was
05:44
his name was Matt his name was Matt many
05:47
people referred to him as hot cop he had
05:51
a at one point he had a Craigslist
05:53
missed connection written about him yeah
06:03
I can’t remember who found that but man
06:05
we printed that out and every Tuesday we
06:08
would have those things plastered where
06:09
he would stand in no nice guy super nice
06:18
guy expired and look nothing like me so
06:21
I think it wasn’t it wasn’t a quad
06:27
whitey
06:28
right yeah but most of the people they
06:31
show
06:31
up there I was like well they’ve been
06:33
ID’d outside I’m not worrying about it
06:35
but I know for certain that person is
06:37
not old enough to be here yeah no not my
06:42
issue but ya know like when we first
06:46
became friends on Facebook like we had
06:49
all the obvious ones and then I started
06:51
seeing all the others I was like wait a
06:52
minute that person I have never had a
06:56
discussion about politics with him
06:58
that’s really interesting and then I
07:00
started seeing more and I was like oh I
07:02
know where she went to school
07:03
immediately that’s right yeah Brett I
07:09
actually keep I actually keep a Belmont
07:13
sweatshirt that my buddy Dylan Ammerman
07:15
gave me in this room for when it gets
07:18
cold in here I’ll put it on while I’m
07:19
doing work I write you know and business
07:26
music degrees go really far in life from
07:28
what I hear I think I was one of like
07:30
five people my graduating class that
07:32
actually got a full-time job the music
07:34
industry when I came out and I didn’t
07:36
pay anything yeah really really work
07:39
that private education they’re great for
07:41
sure I remember I was waiting on it I
07:43
was waiting on a table it was like it
07:45
was like a like eight or nine people at
07:47
this table and most of them worked I
07:51
think a couple of them were in
07:52
restaurants and then others were just
07:53
friends of them and they were one of the
07:55
girls was talking she was stressing her
07:56
exams and I was like don’t worry about
07:58
it you’re gonna be fine I’m guessing
08:01
you’re a music business major and her
08:04
friends just started laughing and I said
08:08
yeah how’d you know that cuz everybody’s
08:10
a music business major but once you get
08:12
that degree don’t worry because you can
08:14
get a job here yeah with the music
08:17
business degree they start laughing I
08:23
was like no seriously I turned around I
08:25
started pointing to people’s like music
08:26
business major music business major just
08:28
throughout the entire restaurant like
08:31
everybody but me and I was like I didn’t
08:33
spend 120 grand on college and I got
08:35
this job I mean one of my friends got a
08:43
vocal
08:44
major from Belmont I think he’s a
08:46
bartender yeah I start off with a
08:49
songwriting major I thought well we
08:55
still have a business degree at the
08:56
other day I want to stay in this I’m not
08:58
totally up a creek and lo and behold
09:00
after you know five years of making
09:02
nothing and having no job stability I
09:04
decided I didn’t want to stay in that
09:05
industry so it panned out I think it in
09:08
the day you know one thing that I think
09:10
is interesting about it it comes back to
09:13
my beliefs actually I think we push too
09:14
many people into college and I get asked
09:17
all the time now especially on social
09:19
media what did you do to go to school to
09:22
do what you do I want to do what you do
09:24
and I say I didn’t go to school for this
09:25
one bit I worked my butt off and I
09:27
transition into it and you can do that
09:28
you know and I think that that’s thing
09:30
about America you’re actually not trap
09:32
still there’s still so much opportunity
09:33
if you’re just willing to work right so
09:36
this is this is actually gonna be this
09:39
is gonna be a little interesting for me
09:40
because you and I actually agree so I
09:42
actually on this subject you and I agree
09:45
so I had to look up opposing points in
09:47
order to try to play like devil’s
09:48
advocate a little bit so this be pro
09:51
death penalty so I can even play devil’s
09:54
advocate with myself a little bit right
09:56
yeah I mean so I used to be pro as well
09:58
and every argument that I had for it I’m
10:02
like now I’m like what that’s that’s
10:05
just a bad art yeah that’s a bad
10:07
argument so I had to throw all of those
10:09
out the window and actually looked for
10:11
good ones I don’t even know if I found
10:13
good ones I just found some of it I was
10:14
like yeah that’s not that you know this
10:17
person sounds smart they made it sound
10:20
decent so first what I found is that
10:24
according to a poll in 2017 by Gallup
10:28
55% of Americans support the death
10:30
penalty now that being said 55% of
10:34
Americans means absolutely nothing to me
10:36
but is there any instance in which you
10:40
feel that the death penalty is
10:41
acceptable so I want to sort of cage
10:45
this with coming from my old point of
10:48
view which was very Pro and I think that
10:50
I when I’m now discussing this having
10:53
changed my opinion after being presented
10:55
with so much evidence that it
10:56
became impossible to not change my
10:58
opinion on it I still really do
11:00
understand the feeling of where people
11:03
are coming from when they’re and
11:04
supported the death penalty I think
11:05
that’s important but also I do want to
11:07
point out it’s a feeling it’s an
11:08
emotional argument I think what most
11:10
people have gut reaction to the death
11:12
penalty’s right out the gate they either
11:14
think it’s morally wrong or that they
11:16
think it’s morally just and they kind of
11:18
stick with that and never look into it
11:19
further I always say support vedepo only
11:22
runs a mile wide and an inch deep
11:23
because the minute you start actually
11:25
looking into how its operating most
11:27
people cannot stand by it anymore
11:29
that being said I still very much
11:31
understand the desire for justice the
11:34
desire for vengeance the need to feel
11:37
like you’re doing something in the face
11:38
of evil or violence I think all of those
11:41
things makes sense but at the end of the
11:43
day you either get the system as it
11:45
operates or you don’t
11:47
and we’ve seen since the late 1970s when
11:49
it was brought back that all sorts of
11:51
mitigating factors and aggravating
11:54
factors and all these parameters were
11:55
put in place to try to ensure that it
11:57
operated more fairly but we now have
11:58
over four decades with the data that
12:00
proves conclusively it’s still not
12:02
operating efficiently or fairly or in a
12:05
way that is not killing innocent people
12:07
and so at that point I have to say we
12:10
can’t have it so rather or not I think
12:11
there’s ever a case where it’s justified
12:13
maybe but I don’t think you can approach
12:16
the subject in that matter because you
12:18
don’t get to do that everybody would say
12:20
they support it for the worst of the
12:21
worst right but probably that subjective
12:23
first and foremost and secondly even we
12:26
could define that not happening that’s
12:29
fair I mean I did put that in there just
12:31
to be like let’s throw this one right in
12:33
at the beginning see what happens all
12:35
right so yeah cause like what what so
12:38
many people whenever I start talking
12:39
about the death penalty with people what
12:41
many of them go to is what if they
12:44
molested and raped a child and then
12:48
killed it and like yeah do I think that
12:51
person should be alive no I don’t but I
12:56
don’t but at the same time I don’t think
12:57
it’s up to the government to say this is
13:01
this is this is what we’re doing so yeah
13:06
so
13:08
in my in my research today after I got
13:10
off my other job
13:14
Annamarie Schubert from Sacramento
13:16
County
13:17
she is the DA from Sacramento County she
13:20
says that most survivors want justice
13:21
for their murdered friends and family
13:23
repealing the death penalty would not
13:25
heal their wounds but keep them
13:26
permanently open now for me when I when
13:31
I read that I was like ok 1 I don’t know
13:33
if that’s actually true on on whether or
13:36
not most survivors want justice for
13:38
their murdered friends and family also
13:39
it is an emotional gut feeling that
13:42
you’re gonna have right at that moment
13:43
not a logical one but how how would you
13:47
come how would you respond to that with
13:50
somebody well I say everybody wants
13:52
justice for their loved one but do they
13:54
want the death penalty and the answer is
13:56
a resounding no not everybody wants
13:57
definitely we work with many victims
13:59
family members people very very strongly
14:01
and and I want to say who’ve been
14:04
through different phases within that you
14:06
know some of them from the get-go were
14:07
anti-death-penalty and didn’t want that
14:09
and don’t like they didn’t with that on
14:11
their hands and I felt that it added
14:13
more grief as they were trying to
14:15
process what had happened I asking to
14:17
also deal with that question and putting
14:19
out on their hands is a lot for them and
14:20
felt like more trauma we have others who
14:23
were told by prosecutors in DA’s just
14:26
like this woman that it would provide
14:28
closure for them and who then got drug
14:30
through the system for decades and
14:32
decades and decades some of them even
14:34
going all the way through an execution
14:36
and then feeling like they were like to
14:37
you this didn’t actually give them
14:39
closure it didn’t actually give them the
14:40
finality and in reality the waiting for
14:44
that finality kept the wound open for
14:47
them and prevented them from really
14:48
being able to have closure early on and
14:50
heal and move forward and so I always
14:54
really just like when people try to use
14:57
victims as pawns in this argument which
14:59
is what I think people like that are
15:00
doing I would never attempt to speak for
15:02
all victims victims feel vastly
15:04
different there’s a lot of nuance how
15:05
they feel but it’s certainly not true
15:07
that all of them want this and so I
15:08
think it’s unfortunate that’s so often
15:11
the percentage of victims who might want
15:13
this or use and the rest are discounted
15:15
and I will add as well when you look at
15:18
the amount of homicides cleared in this
15:20
country
15:20
an average clearance rate of only 51%
15:22
nationally
15:24
that’s not getting justice for all
15:27
that’s not tough on crime when you’re
15:29
spending millions and millions of
15:30
dollars to pursue a few cherry-pick
15:32
death penalty cases but letting almost
15:34
half of homicides go completely unsolved
15:36
about those victims
15:38
yeah that’s an amazing point one of our
15:41
regular listeners Brian Wolfe
15:44
commented he’s sorry that he showed up
15:47
late it’s okay Brian we forgive you but
15:49
he wants to know what would be ultra
15:51
alternatives to the death penalty I
15:54
think that we’re seeing a lot of states
15:56
over the past 20 years or so that
15:58
started to implement life in prison
15:59
without parole and there’s a real
16:01
difference when you say that people have
16:03
an opinion that you can get out with a
16:05
life sentence and that’s true if
16:06
someone’s given a life sentence they can
16:08
be let out before the conclusion of
16:10
their lives but life without parole is
16:12
quite different that really does mean
16:14
you cannot be paroled you’re not getting
16:16
out unless you’re giving clemency or
16:18
your case is overturned and so we’re
16:20
seeing a huge downtick and new death
16:22
sentences since 2000 and they’re down
16:23
about 60% and I would argue that’s
16:26
because juries not have that option a
16:27
lot of states that they didn’t for a
16:29
very long time so so life life in prison
16:33
without parole is kind of a newer newer
16:35
thing you know in a lot of states yes
16:38
we’re still I think Texas only added it
16:41
recently in Tennessee actually last year
16:43
one of the people that was executed and
16:45
then Zagorski one of his jurors actually
16:48
spoke out I think he was convicted in
16:50
the late 80s early 90s and the juror
16:52
said if we’d had this option of life in
16:54
prison without parole we wouldn’t have
16:56
given him the death penalty we thought
16:58
he might be an ongoing threat but what
16:59
he did you know we don’t I wouldn’t have
17:01
thought roast that level I know in the
17:03
juror room like others would have felt
17:04
the same way from our deliberations and
17:06
this would have caused us to think
17:09
differently about this so yeah I think
17:10
it’s had a huge impact on how we’re
17:12
seeing people sentence I think when
17:13
juries are given other options where
17:15
they know someone will not be released
17:17
back out that they believe to be
17:18
dangerous they’re going for that option
17:20
instead of death a lot of the time right
17:21
so I mean thanks thank you to Netflix
17:26
for this but because of Netflix Ted
17:29
Bundy is now trending again at like
17:31
everybody everybody talks about Ted
17:34
I saw the documentary of the Ted Bundy
17:38
tapes and I watched the movie with Zac
17:40
Efron yeah
17:41
Zac Efron not breath and like the movie
17:46
was okay I guess the Ted Bundy tapes
17:49
were fun to watch and when you’re
17:50
watching it you’re like yeah this guy
17:52
deserved to die but at the same time did
17:54
he deserve did the state do the right
17:57
thing and being like okay we’re gonna
18:00
we’re just gonna execute you and so and
18:03
dislike at the same time it had been
18:05
these back in the media so much I’m just
18:07
like everybody else I’m fascinated by
18:09
serial killers it’s an interesting
18:11
phenomenon but the reality is true
18:13
serial killers people who are real
18:16
Psychopaths like a Ted Bundy that’s such
18:19
a rarity in the criminal justice system
18:20
that really is less than like 1% of
18:22
cases that you see the reality is you
18:24
don’t see very many serial killers
18:25
that’s why you know their names and
18:27
secondly the other important factor is
18:30
you really don’t see people like Ted
18:31
Bundy that often who just become violent
18:33
for no reason that we can see right
18:36
typically you’re dealing with people in
18:37
the criminal justice population what you
18:39
quickly find out is that this dichotomy
18:41
most of this picture between victim and
18:42
perpetrator is not there it’s typically
18:45
someone who’s one in the same and they
18:47
typically have had severus abuse and
18:50
trauma and it’s treatment typically in
18:51
their childhood before they become
18:53
violent it’s very rare for someone and
18:54
just wake up and to become a Ted Bundy
18:57
and so the problem with that is that
18:58
while it’s entertaining I think many
19:01
people get the perception that this is
19:03
something that happens a lot and that’s
19:06
really difficult when you’re trying to
19:08
actually help people see behind the
19:09
curtain with the criminal justice system
19:11
uh but secondly I think one thing she
19:14
had someone in a facebook debate with me
19:15
today say what about Jeffrey Dahmer you
19:17
don’t think you should get the death
19:17
penalty and yeah maybe I do but he
19:20
didn’t I think if you start looking into
19:22
these cases of who gets the death
19:24
penalty you’ll actually be really
19:25
surprised by who gets it oftentimes the
19:28
people that I think most would agree are
19:29
the worst of the worse or who are the
19:31
serial killers don’t get the death
19:32
penalty that’s right dumber
19:33
Dahmer got killed in jail right No well
19:36
he might he was not sentenced to death
19:38
well no I think I think somebody like
19:40
beat him to death in jail I think that’s
19:43
how he went out but that could have yeah
19:45
but he was
19:46
it’s today okay and not okay now there
19:50
was one of the 9/11 conspirators so in
19:52
reality when you start digging into
19:53
who’s getting the death penalty it’s
19:55
really very arbitrary and I think that’s
19:57
super interesting if you start looking
19:59
at the data it’s only about two percent
20:00
of counties that are bringing the
20:02
majority of death penalty cases and to
20:04
date all of our execution since
20:06
reinstatement have come from less than
20:07
16 percent of counties so it actually
20:10
has a lot more to do with where the
20:11
crime is committed versus what the
20:13
person did when you’re looking at
20:14
determinants for who gets the death
20:15
penalty right so when I was younger than
20:20
I am now because any story I tell has to
20:22
be that way I was living in the DC area
20:25
during the DC sniper guy yeah the guy
20:30
that was driving around him and him in
20:31
the kid and I believe he got the death
20:36
penalty but the kid did not yeah and I’m
20:41
so back then I was not the same person I
20:44
am now
20:44
because if that was the case then that
20:46
would show absolutely no growth and
20:48
nobody wants that but back then I was
20:52
like he deserves the death penalty he a
20:55
hundred percent deserves death penalty
20:56
because during that time because I was
20:59
right like I think I was literally only
21:03
two might like where I lived was only a
21:05
couple miles away from where the
21:06
killings happen and everybody was
21:08
terrified they said that he was driving
21:11
around in the DC area in a white panel
21:14
van which he wasn’t for anybody who
21:17
doesn’t know that case the news put that
21:19
out and that was a lie
21:21
well it was just wrong I don’t know if
21:22
it was a direct lie so one day I was at
21:24
work and a white panel van was parked
21:27
out front
21:28
nobody came into my restaurant that day
21:30
and I was like can you not park here he
21:33
goes man I gotta do my job I was like I
21:35
get it but man no but walk by here right
21:39
now right but back then I was like ya
21:43
know he should get the death penalty by
21:45
the time he actually got to being
21:49
executed
21:50
I had sort of switched but when when it
21:54
was like I don’t even remember that
21:56
guy’s name but when he was when he was
21:59
in the news for
22:00
he’s about to get executed I remembered
22:02
feeling that he should die for
22:04
everything he did and I sort of
22:06
justified my argument that I had back
22:09
then when that was happening and even
22:12
now I’m like that like I I despised that
22:18
person as a person but now I’m like but
22:20
did he deserve to die not by the hands
22:23
of the state Brian Wolfe had a follow-up
22:27
question he asked which is more
22:28
expensive to the taxpayer by far the
22:32
death penalty and this was one thing
22:34
that really got my attention initially
22:35
made me change my stance on it I think
22:37
everybody knows the definitely is
22:39
expensive but when you start digging
22:40
into how much more expensive it is in
22:42
life in prison without parole they
22:44
should be about the same
22:45
you would think you’re comparing it
22:46
because most people die on death row the
22:48
leading cause of death on death row is
22:50
natural causes so typically they are
22:51
serving life in prison without parole
22:53
you would think they would marry each
22:54
other but in reality the death penalty
22:56
is about ten times more expensive than
22:58
life in prison without parole the actual
23:00
data differs state to state you can look
23:02
at the state studies on definitely
23:03
information calm and compare but it’s at
23:06
least two million dollars more per case
23:08
and the reasons are mostly tied up in
23:11
the trial it’s not the appellate process
23:12
it’s not the length of carry out the
23:14
execution like many people think 70% of
23:16
cost the death when you come from the
23:17
trial alone meaning even if the jury
23:20
doesn’t give a death sentence the
23:21
taxpayers are still paying a vast amount
23:23
of money to carry out that trial and the
23:26
reasons for that is that the death
23:27
penalty cases take place over two parts
23:30
you have a guilt innocence phase then
23:31
you have a sentencing phase you
23:33
typically are hiring at least to the
23:34
attorneys that’s not more on each side
23:36
most people do use public defenders
23:38
those are more hours just by length
23:40
alone that you’re having worked by
23:42
judges by court staff by prosecutors by
23:45
DA’s
23:46
it’s a longer jury selection process
23:47
you’re typically doing brain and more
23:50
witnesses but committee to vote no many
23:52
witnesses are usually paid when they’re
23:53
there to testify on behalf of the state
23:55
you’re doing more lab testing also labs
23:58
are usually paid on behalf of the state
24:00
they’re usually paid based off of
24:01
conviction rates right so there’s a lot
24:03
of problems with how they’re paid and
24:05
all of it but all that compound makes it
24:07
vastly more expensive so they pay the
24:09
witnesses to be there this is something
24:11
I learned when I was working at the
24:12
Beacon Center because we
24:13
had a pro bono constitutional litigation
24:15
firm that was attached to be consider
24:17
and we were working our way through a
24:20
case and I first learned that doctors or
24:23
medical experts could be paid I’m
24:25
talking 10 mm of dollars to come in and
24:27
give testimony on behalf of the state
24:29
that’s an that’s that’s great like
24:33
really really screwed up yes yeah I was
24:35
like that’s criminal yeah as you know
24:37
murdering a bunch of people but I mean
24:39
that’s still criminal our system is
24:42
supposed to be set up to where it should
24:44
be what better than a hundred guilty
24:46
people go free than one innocent person
24:47
perish but when you have incentives
24:49
being paid based off conviction rates
24:51
and essentially you have people giving
24:53
testimony labs working on behalf of the
24:55
prosecutor that’s not okay that’s going
24:58
to produce bad results and we’re seeing
24:59
that as we’re getting further and
25:00
further down the line with our wrongful
25:02
conviction rates so earlier you were
25:05
saying that earlier you were saying that
25:09
hang on where my note go crap that
25:14
whether or not you feel the death
25:16
penalty is acceptable is an emotional
25:18
argument um you’re like yeah that’s an
25:21
emotional argument now Bruce fine who is
25:23
general counselor general counsel for
25:25
the center of law and accountability
25:27
says the the government argues that
25:30
saying that the government should never
25:31
take a human life is an article of faith
25:33
I you could approach that statement for
25:39
many different stances I think if you
25:41
were looking at this from a faith
25:43
perspective and to be totally upfront I
25:45
do look at it from that perspective as
25:46
well personally I do think that
25:49
according to my faith I have a problem
25:51
with killing other people whether it’s
25:53
me or the government acting on my behalf
25:55
which in the u.s. we have a
25:57
representative government when they are
25:58
carrying things out that’s essentially
26:00
me carrying it out there acting on my
26:02
behalf and so I think that is unsettling
26:05
but I think for many others including
26:06
those who are not religious there is
26:08
just this overwhelming sense that the
26:10
government is fallible it’s run by
26:13
humans it’s fallible we know that it’s
26:15
prone to error we you know as limited
26:17
government advocates are so because we
26:19
know that it’s never going to be
26:21
efficient or effective or really run in
26:24
a way that could ever even compete with
26:26
private industry
26:27
less a perfect system so I think there
26:30
are a lot of people who who don’t have a
26:31
religious aspect to saying that the
26:33
government shouldn’t kill people it just
26:34
comes from plain common sense and
26:36
recognizing the government can’t carry
26:38
out the mail why should we let them
26:39
carry out things the life and death yeah
26:43
so he actually went on the you said that
26:46
the death penalty honors human dignity
26:48
by allowing the defendant to be treated
26:50
as a moral actor able to control his own
26:52
destiny for good or for ill and I I
26:55
actually took I took issue with that
27:00
statement because he’s already kind of
27:04
the the defendant in this in this
27:07
example he has already carried out his
27:11
life he’s already controlled his destiny
27:13
for lll now is that on the state to
27:18
punish him for that or is that on
27:19
whatever higher being you or him or
27:23
whatever subscribes to because I don’t
27:25
really subscribe to any so as far as
27:31
giving the defendant human dignity I
27:35
felt like this was just what’s the right
27:39
word because my I’m not used to being
27:43
awake as long as I’ve been right now to
27:47
be honest I think that it’s really at
27:50
the very nicest way I can put it it’s
27:53
overtly simplifying the issue because if
27:55
someone controlling their own destiny if
27:57
they have a severe mental illness and
27:59
they are incapacitated and the reality
28:02
is altered is someone controlling their
28:03
own destiny if they have an intellectual
28:05
disability
28:05
if someone controlling their own destiny
28:08
if they have been abused over and over
28:10
and over and violated and then act in a
28:13
cycle of violence now I still think
28:15
people are responsible for their actions
28:17
I believe in holding people accountable
28:18
and I think certainly if someone is
28:20
proven that they’re an ongoing danger to
28:22
society they should be removed from it
28:23
but that being said I think if you again
28:26
start looking at who’s actually getting
28:28
the death penalty it’s really not the
28:31
monster that most people have in their
28:33
mind when they’re picturing this and I
28:34
think that as a society we’ve seen
28:36
conflicting messages when we say killing
28:38
is wrong but it’s okay
28:40
here well what makes it okay here why
28:42
it’s okay here how come we don’t kill
28:44
every murder you know to what end do we
28:46
do we stretch this and I think the more
28:48
consistent thing to say is that human
28:50
life has value at all times and it has
28:52
value and innate rights that I think are
28:55
god-given and that cannot be won or lost
28:57
based on what you do but because of your
29:00
being and if we were directing nines out
29:03
of society and see that as a
29:04
comprehensive value I think that would
29:07
go a long way actually in evolving us to
29:10
a to a more educated point in our
29:14
culture umm yeah so like like you were
29:19
saying like it’s not on the government
29:21
to be the government can’t deliver mail
29:24
correctly like how do we expect them to
29:25
be able to carry these things out and
29:26
then you throw on top that society says
29:29
it’s not okay to kill but it’s okay in
29:31
this case now that is also my stance
29:34
when it comes to you know Wars that I
29:37
don’t think that we should be in which
29:39
is you know all of them that’s how I
29:42
feel about that that’s how I feel about
29:43
political coos and assassinations that
29:45
we put on but everybody says that this
29:47
is fine these things over here are okay
29:49
but what this guy did here bad which I
29:52
agree bad but I don’t really see that
29:55
big of a difference between these two
29:56
columns and I think that is where most
30:00
people have their disconnect then these
30:02
people this guy this person killed one
30:07
or more people and without their without
30:10
being involved in this group here and
30:13
that is where just because he’s not
30:16
involved in that group makes it okay it
30:18
makes it wrong or it makes it okay if
30:20
you’re involved in that group and that
30:22
is where most of the people that I
30:24
disagree with on this subject there are
30:27
a hundred percent with no no those
30:29
people can do it the people who can’t
30:31
run a health care website are totally
30:33
capable of knowing when to kill somebody
30:37
and it’s okay I’m often asked how I feel
30:43
given my background of working on Second
30:45
Amendment issues which I’m probably the
30:47
biggest sex offender that nut you’ll
30:48
ever meet I love the second and I carry
30:50
and I’m always asked how do I
30:52
justify that and I say it’s very simple
30:55
it’s a very black-and-white issue in my
30:56
mind if I am being threatened and I’m
30:58
acting in self-defense I have every
31:00
right to act in self-defense and to
31:02
fully carry that out and same is true
31:04
for war if we were acting in
31:05
self-defense that there’s an existential
31:07
threat then I think we have every right
31:09
to defend ourselves and defend our
31:10
rights within a percentage but what we
31:13
cross the line with is when we start
31:15
saying but what about these exceptions
31:16
to that what about you know these
31:18
proactive things and I think we don’t
31:20
have a consistent value as a society on
31:22
these issues and it shows I think that
31:24
it not only shows the death penalty I
31:26
think when you don’t have a
31:27
comprehensive view on the value of human
31:29
life it shows in many other areas as
31:31
well right now one of the arguments that
31:35
I hear in fate well it’s not really in
31:39
favor of the death toll me but it’s just
31:40
anti abolitionists that a lot of
31:45
abolitionists will claim the
31:47
Constitution for and they’ll say you
31:49
know it’s not constitutional the Eighth
31:51
Amendment I believe right yeah that’s
31:53
what I mean yeah the Eighth Amendment
31:54
says that this is not constitutional for
31:57
cruel and unusual punishment and I’ve
31:58
heard other people say that because of
32:00
the fifth amendment yeah I have it
32:03
pulled up on that one because of the
32:05
fifth amendment it’s okay for us to do
32:08
this have you I have never heard this
32:10
argument once I often hear and obviously
32:13
when you get into the litigation side of
32:15
this issue you see a lot of
32:17
back-and-forth or the constitutionality
32:18
of the death penalty it’s not my
32:22
argument to be totally honest I don’t
32:23
think that we have to get into it
32:25
whether its constitutional not whether
32:27
it’s biblical or not same thing maybe
32:29
maybe maybe the premise is but it
32:31
doesn’t matter because it was certainly
32:33
not supposed to operate like this and so
32:35
that’s really the problem you can be in
32:37
favor the definitely I think it’s okay
32:38
in theory all day long but I don’t
32:41
understand how you can be there
32:42
different practice when you really start
32:43
looking at how it’s actually being
32:45
carried out right so when you say how
32:48
it’s being carried out are you talking
32:50
about the cost of it are you talking
32:52
about the demographics of who is being
32:54
put in the bank this issues are the
32:57
first big issue that’s certainly the
32:59
number one thing that really shipped my
33:02
opinion on it followed by the cost we’ve
33:04
got a system
33:06
overrun with innocents issues I think
33:07
many people still think this is an
33:08
anomaly it’s not we’ve had 165 people
33:11
exonerated from death row that equals
33:13
one person exonerated for free 10
33:15
executions in this country and that’s
33:17
people who were exonerated that’s a
33:19
really big burden to become exonerated
33:21
that is a man count that people who’ve
33:22
been released over potential innocence
33:24
issues such as the Alford pleas or who
33:26
had their cases overturned in other
33:28
manners it also doesn’t count 1,000th of
33:30
people who have been proven wrongfully
33:32
convicted over homicide charges but
33:35
we’re lucky enough to not get the death
33:37
penalty we have too much innocence in
33:40
this system to be carrying this out and
33:42
I think that it’s very reckless that we
33:44
continue to operate when we know that
33:47
secondly the arbitrariness of it
33:49
mentioned the location it goes further
33:52
than that if you further break it down
33:54
on who’s getting the death penalty after
33:55
where the crime is committed the next
33:57
biggest determinate is whether or not
33:58
someone can afford a good attorney if
34:00
you can you’re probably not gonna get
34:02
the death penalty if you can’t good luck
34:04
you can see one in four people on Texas
34:07
death row that had a public defender
34:08
that this later just farted or
34:09
disciplined you see 73 percent of people
34:12
in North Carolina’s death row that were
34:14
sentenced before there was an indigent
34:15
defense fund and so we have a system
34:17
that really is bias in a socio-economic
34:20
manner that I think is unjust and that
34:22
that would be unconstitutional and then
34:24
thirdly if you start looking at the race
34:26
of the victim that becomes a big factor
34:28
in who gets death penalty or not in
34:30
California you’re three times more
34:31
likely to get it if you kill a white
34:32
person if you kill a black person or a
34:34
Hispanic person in Louisiana you’re
34:36
ninety six percent times more likely to
34:38
get it if you kill a white person’s and
34:39
if you kill minority I think that what
34:41
that says is we are valuing victims
34:43
differently and we’re placing a higher
34:45
price on some people’s lives and others
34:47
and I don’t know how anyone can justify
34:50
that right and so while I was doing my
34:53
research on this one of the arguments I
34:55
saw it was about was about race and the
34:58
guy said that since 1974 I believe the
35:04
stats on how many people that were
35:07
executed that were white that were black
35:08
that were Hispanic that were other they
35:12
sort of matched like the the black was
35:14
definitely higher than how many than the
35:16
percentage of blacks that lived in the
35:17
community but at no point did
35:19
he ever go into at no point did he ever
35:23
go into the percentage of people that
35:26
were convicted of or that were that
35:29
received the death penalty for killing a
35:32
white person versus a black person
35:33
versus some other minority and that
35:35
that’s actually really interesting to me
35:37
because that was left out of that just
35:40
completely but ya know that that that
35:46
stat blew my mind when you said that I
35:48
was just kind of like oh that makes so
35:50
much sense but ninety-six percent in
35:52
Louisiana which I mean granted the only
35:54
parts of Louisiana I’ve ever really been
35:56
to are heavily minority populated but
36:00
like that that blew my mind 96 percent
36:04
more likely and we see this in the news
36:07
I think there’s something that is a bit
36:09
unsurprising to me at least when I
36:11
started digging into that data when I
36:13
was in college I remember saying if I
36:15
were to disappear you’ve seen my face
36:16
all over the media because I’m a young
36:18
white girl right I mean but when’s last
36:21
time you saw that happen or a young
36:23
black girl who disappears you know we
36:25
just we don’t give the same attention to
36:27
crime victims in this country and to
36:29
break it down even pass race when you
36:31
start unit socioeconomic status you know
36:32
you kill a police officer you’re almost
36:34
certainly indefinitely but you kill a
36:35
prostitute I doubt you’re gonna get the
36:39
death penalty and so we’ve got you know
36:41
wrestle with those questions as a
36:42
society like why do we value victims
36:44
lives differently and I think that comes
36:46
down to the fact that we don’t actually
36:48
see all human attack having innate equal
36:51
value at the end of the day right so
36:53
earlier I believe that was this year is
36:57
either this year last year Trump was on
36:59
Fox & Friends
37:01
I’m going with all of this Trump is on
37:04
Fox and Friends and the guy had murdered
37:06
the two cops the illegal had I believe
37:10
he’s an illegal he murdered the two cops
37:12
and he and Trump was on there talking
37:13
about the death penalty music is it
37:15
right is it wrong I don’t know but we
37:17
know that he will not be killing any
37:19
more cops after this or something along
37:21
those lines so when you have the
37:23
president who has just this fan base of
37:27
a president I have never liked it’s
37:29
either you love him or you hate him and
37:31
then there’s like
37:33
eight of us in the middle they’re like
37:35
yeah he’s just as bad as any of the
37:38
others I guess
37:41
but like the fanbase that loves him are
37:44
so rabid that all of a sudden any any
37:46
one of them at that moment that was kind
37:48
of teetering on the death tone he’s
37:49
going to be Oh Trump’s in favor of the
37:51
death penalty especially if a cop gets
37:52
killed which I’m not going to get into
37:55
that but especially if a cop gets killed
37:57
but so now I’m okay with the death
38:00
penalty and and if anybody murders
38:02
somebody they better be holding a badge
38:05
or in fatigues I mean I obviously
38:10
Trump’s statement for death penalty has
38:13
been not what I would wish to hear from
38:15
our president but that being said it
38:18
hasn’t hurt the movement and in fact I
38:20
don’t know where this year’s been
38:22
incredible with definitely overkill we
38:24
actually have 11 states I think there’s
38:26
one more coming down the pipeline that
38:27
I’ve had Republican sponsored bills to
38:29
repeal the death penalty that’s man I
38:30
actually see this as an issue where the
38:33
battleground is at the state level I
38:34
think that’s where it should be handled
38:35
as a limited government person I think
38:37
it is up to the states and I want to see
38:39
them repeal it and we’re down to only 30
38:42
states that still have it on their books
38:43
of those that have it 11 of them so over
38:46
third haven’t used it and at least a
38:48
decade or more and so you’re seeing a
38:51
real down tick in the death penalty with
38:54
or without Trump statements and I think
38:56
that you’re seeing a real Insurgentes of
38:57
Republicans actually coming forward and
38:59
leaving on this issue at the state level
39:01
which is pretty incredible to watch and
39:03
so you know I wish she felt differently
39:07
I wish that we could see I’ll have a
39:08
conversation about it but even if not I
39:10
don’t think it’s hurting the what’s
39:11
happening Roo at the ground so Tennessee
39:14
does Tennessee still have it or no and
39:16
if he still has it and up until last
39:18
year they were counted they wrote the
39:19
12th state that hadn’t used it in a
39:21
decade or more they began using it again
39:24
last year was a bit surprising actually
39:27
they were the state that executed the
39:28
most people right behind Texas so last
39:30
year was the fourth year in a row the
39:31
country executed fewer than 30 people
39:34
there were only 25 executions they
39:36
occurred in only eight states and over
39:38
half of the more in Texas and then
39:40
Tennessee had the next most amount which
39:42
was just unusual for Tennessee it’s not
39:45
a state that’s been active they’d only
39:47
executed oh I want to say six people
39:50
since reinstatement up until that point
39:52
and they’ve had three people exonerated
39:54
from their death throes so yeah I don’t
39:58
know what to think about it to be honest
39:59
it’s been a little out of character bro
40:02
Tennessee I mean there’s been a bunch of
40:03
stuff happening in Tennessee that I’ve
40:05
been like that makes rough week in
40:08
Tennessee yeah like that’s that’s not
40:11
the Tennessee I remember right there
40:17
spike Cohen what about my co-host spike
40:20
Cohen if you don’t watch this show
40:22
regularly says what about Dylan roof
40:31
tuck ace it’s a it’s a case I still get
40:34
emotional about and I think a lot of
40:37
people in South Carolina feel very
40:39
personally attached that the one thing
40:41
that always stands out in my mind about
40:43
the Dylan roof case though was the
40:44
families the very first hearing they had
40:47
who multiple different family members
40:51
came forward and said we forgive you we
40:54
don’t want the death penalty this is not
40:56
something that we want on our hands this
40:57
isn’t going to help us we want to
40:59
forgive and move forward and I think the
41:02
reason I get so emotional because as a
41:04
Christian that is what I think my faith
41:07
is supposed to be able to do and which
41:08
is really superseding human ability and
41:12
human understanding and able to get this
41:14
place where you can forgive someone
41:15
who’s done something so horrible and I
41:17
just thought the those families
41:18
testimonies were something I’ll never
41:20
forget and it doesn’t see my favorite
41:22
listen to you in that case yet that that
41:24
was actually one of the most beautiful
41:26
out of that scenario like not much
41:29
beauty could come of it but with that
41:32
scenario happening that was actually a
41:34
really beautiful moment where all the
41:35
families came in and said that they
41:36
forgave him and that they didn’t want
41:38
the death penalty
41:39
well you I don’t get real emotional
41:42
unless it’s a like old episodes of
41:45
scrubs and I don’t even understand that
41:47
but I’ll just watch an episode of scrubs
41:50
and be like yeah JD but on track I cry
41:56
every time I listen to my mom is like
41:57
why are you crying
42:00
I don’t know mom it doesn’t matter but
42:07
yeah with a within that moment like I
42:10
was watching that and I was just like Oh
42:12
humanity you’re not awful you’re not
42:16
terrible
42:17
you’re you’ve learned forgiveness
42:19
somehow and that just blew my mind
42:24
so which states still have the death
42:29
penalty because you said that only
42:33
thirty of them still have a decade and
42:39
last year only eight of them that’s
42:40
right that’s what I meant
42:43
obviously very concentrated in the south
42:46
I believe it’s Texas Florida Tennessee
42:52
you’re really testing my knowledge right
42:54
now
42:54
maybe parkansas all concentrated in
43:04
there right in the South Region so yeah
43:07
I thought I remembered that Florida had
43:09
executed somebody for the first time in
43:11
a really long time last year has the
43:17
second most executions behind Texas
43:20
soyou’ve Texas was in Florida and then I
43:22
think Georgia the period often it
43:26
probably was Tennessee that you’re
43:28
thinking of because Tennessee had been a
43:29
really long time okay possibly possibly
43:32
yeah then I’d look at Tennessee as a
43:33
home state too so I am but I so had a
43:40
question about floor crap I need to stop
43:42
waking up early to on show days my brain
43:48
is like you worked all morning what are
43:50
you doing you’re supposed to be like
43:52
asleep and I’m like no I’m not it’s nine
43:55
o’clock so like I know that Florida has
44:00
definitely executed a ton of people in
44:02
the past and I grew so I grew up in
44:06
Virginia and I believed that when I was
44:08
growing up it was legal there but now it
44:10
is not and they still have it
44:14
I still have it I don’t think they’d
44:15
used it recently but they still have it
44:19
gotcha I think the last person that they
44:21
probably executed was the older of the
44:24
DC snipers right and I remember before
44:28
that had been forever but anytime that I
44:32
read about somebody who is going into
44:35
the death penalty
44:37
like who’s about to be executed you get
44:40
the last-minute pushes from
44:41
organizations like conservatives
44:43
concerned about the death penalty who
44:44
are trying to stop this from happening
44:48
what is the a success rate on this on
44:51
these hopes yeah it’s not high I don’t I
44:57
don’t know the exact percentage
44:58
it’s definitely once you get down to the
45:01
mean of the wire it’s a Hail Mary and
45:03
typically is up to the governor whether
45:06
or not he’s going to act we did say Ohio
45:09
cool in execution last year or a guy who
45:12
multiple jury members came out and said
45:14
have we had other options we’ve given
45:16
him the death penalty and we have seen
45:19
the governor’s a creasing Republican
45:20
governors act but it’s it’s not typical
45:23
it’s it’s a it’s a heavy thing we are
45:26
seeing a lot of Republican governors
45:27
really start to kind of put efecto
45:29
moratoriums in place like we saw the new
45:31
Ohio governor do where he basically is
45:34
saying look I’m not going to hear
45:36
executions under my watch until I have
45:38
more information I’m gonna be looking
45:39
into this which i think is wise but I
45:42
think at the end of the day it’s just
45:44
very difficult once you get down to this
45:46
process to put it on one person and have
45:48
that be the decision I think that’s why
45:49
you saw California’s governor recently
45:51
put an effective moratorium in for
45:53
people who are really struggling and
45:55
grappling with it and who you know I
45:57
think some have their minds made up
45:58
weren’t governor Newsom I think others
45:59
like governor DeWine are really
46:01
struggling with it and one at any time
46:03
that you thought the one thing through
46:04
that which I apply and it’s a
46:06
complicated issue you know I didn’t
46:08
change my mind
46:08
on it overnight I certainly took a lot
46:11
of time to research and look in multiple
46:13
difference that needs to get to that
46:15
point inside I think we should encourage
46:17
all governor’s to do that and to really
46:18
look through it and develop a
46:20
comprehensive stance because when you’re
46:21
going case-by-case it becomes very
46:23
difficult I think to decide right so I
46:27
remember
46:27
there was there was a case here in
46:29
Florida and Pam Pam Bondi was the
46:32
Attorney General down here who I dislike
46:36
that woman just in general and what she
46:40
did here was in my mind even kind of
46:43
worse than how much I normally dislike
46:46
her she somebody was scheduled for an
46:50
execution
46:50
she stayed the execution which okay I
46:54
was like all right that’s cool but she
46:56
only stayed the execution because she
46:58
had a scheduling conflict in which she
47:02
had a fundraising dinner for her
47:04
re-election campaign on the same night
47:06
so she stayed the execution just so she
47:08
could go raise money and then ended up
47:10
doing it later Oh like on that one I was
47:14
like well yeah you stayed the execution
47:15
but literally for the most selfish
47:18
reason you possibly could have yeah no
47:25
that’s that is definitely that is
47:27
definitely something and she I mean she
47:30
just isn’t a knight like she wants to
47:32
make a weed illegal everywhere all over
47:35
again she she does not care about civil
47:38
liberties at all and she is very proud
47:41
to fnally except on days that she has
47:43
fundraisers and she’s only like four
47:45
feet 11 she’s tiny she’s she’s tiny and
47:52
not she wasn’t nice to me either which
47:54
makes it even worse she was the only one
47:57
that was mean to me when I met everybody
48:00
and I’m like man you’re a midget so what
48:06
so what are you guys working on now what
48:08
do you guys have in the pipeline as far
48:11
as conservatives concerned about the
48:12
death penalty do you have anything
48:13
coming up any big projects that you’re
48:15
working on or well you know we’re a
48:17
non-profit so we’re always working on
48:19
advocacy and education we do that all
48:21
over the country whether it be from
48:22
speaking events or different conferences
48:24
that we’re at we have chapters that
48:27
we’re launching so we have just launched
48:29
a chapter in Louisiana getting ready to
48:31
launch chapters in Texas and Virginia
48:32
this year as well and so that’s really
48:35
exciting we’re looking for people on the
48:37
ground to be kind of our you know
48:39
grassroot soldiers when we
48:41
issues and people can lend their voice
48:43
to raise awareness about why these
48:45
values don’t align with people who have
48:47
conservative and libertarian values yes
48:49
and that’s really exciting we’re of
48:51
course continuing to follow all the
48:52
bills a lot of the sessions are winding
48:53
yeah at this point but there are still
48:56
either ongoing so we’ll be continuing to
48:58
follow those bills and then getting
49:00
ready for an extra session as well I
49:01
think you’re gonna see we’ve got New
49:03
Hampshire that’s looking like they’ll
49:05
have a veto override at the end of the
49:06
month which is really exciting and then
49:09
I think Wyoming will be coming back
49:10
strong next year they really came out
49:12
the gate with an amazing showing the
49:14
only four votes shy of passing a bill to
49:17
repeal the death penalty so I certainly
49:18
think we’ll be hearing from them next
49:20
year
49:20
Utah’s looking really promising for next
49:22
year Colorado has been making a lot of
49:25
gains so always stuff going on never
49:28
slows down yeah I figured that that is
49:31
one of the that’s one of the fields that
49:34
if you’re gonna work in advocacy for you
49:37
are constantly gonna have stuff going on
49:39
because it’s gonna be a long time before
49:42
we get to a point where there is no more
49:45
death penalty in the US yeah we saw a
49:48
lot of work to do uh it feels like
49:52
there’s just so much movement that
49:53
sometimes I do worry like am I gonna
49:55
have a job yeah but that’s a good worry
49:58
to have you know I think we’re always
49:59
trying to work ourselves out of a job in
50:00
this kind of industry in you know each
50:03
each year if we can just knock two or
50:05
three states out and he’s going we’ll be
50:07
in business so I think that we’re
50:09
showing great progress I think that you
50:11
look at the amount of Republican
50:13
lawmakers that have been sponsoring
50:14
bills and the increase since 2000 and
50:16
that it’s drastic I mean at least 10
50:19
times as now as many are doing that so
50:21
if that keeps up and we see these people
50:24
really start championing this and moving
50:25
forward you can see big things happen
50:27
even in red states which is it’s really
50:29
cool to see now that and that is amazing
50:32
that is definitely amazing to see so at
50:35
the beginning I kind of plugged that you
50:37
have in column for news max called life
50:41
and liberty basically that’s just you
50:44
that’s when when my viewers and
50:46
listeners go to that it’s gonna be you
50:49
ranting about the death penalty isn’t it
50:50
it’s be ranting just me like completely
50:53
like pissed off and ranting
50:55
know it it is very focused on the death
50:58
penalty and sometimes other criminal
51:00
justice reform as well that really
51:01
trying to shed a light on what’s
51:02
happening and you know it makes me mad I
51:05
always say that’s one of the hardest
51:06
parts of my job is actually writing that
51:07
column because as you’re researching you
51:09
just get even madder and madder when
51:10
you’re looking at everything happening
51:11
so it’s got a bit of Gaston to it I
51:16
remember so I remember when you and I
51:18
first met at yeah Lacan you actually I
51:22
don’t think that you’re talking about
51:24
the column but I I remember talking to
51:28
you and I was like yeah I used to be I
51:29
used to be a pro death penalty and now
51:32
I’m kind of on the fence but leaning
51:34
more toward anti-death-penalty
51:36
and you kind of gave me the same you
51:38
know it’s a my it’s a million thousand
51:40
miles long but only a mile deep and the
51:42
longer you’ve whatever you said earlier
51:44
and the longer that you said there is
51:45
like you realize that it’s just really
51:46
shallow arguments and they’re pointless
51:48
and then everything starts making you
51:49
mad mad and bad and so I kind of like
51:52
start looking into stuff and I was like
51:53
yeah she was right this is this is a
51:57
really stupid that we do this like it
52:00
the cost alone the crane the cost alone
52:05
which Brian Wolfe
52:06
who asked which is more expensive to the
52:08
taxpayer after you after you went
52:11
through your stats on what it cost for a
52:13
death penalty trial versus a life in
52:16
life in prison trial he said wow I’ve
52:19
officially changed my mind solely based
52:21
on cost and I think he may have signed
52:24
off or at least recognized that you know
52:28
the problems with government I think the
52:30
costs are getting under your skin it’s
52:32
infuriating and not only you know not
52:34
only is it expensive but what are we not
52:36
spending that on and when you’re looking
52:37
at a justice system what we’re not
52:39
sitting on is solving more crimes and
52:41
we’re not staying on as firms that
52:42
actually work to deter crime and make us
52:44
safer so it’s not only money down the
52:46
drain but there’s a lot of opportunity
52:48
cost associated with that to your right
52:50
so do you have anything else that you
52:53
want to push and or anything or plug or
52:56
conservatives concerned at work if
52:58
people want to get involved that’s our
52:59
website they can check us out find out
53:01
what our chapters are figure out ways to
53:02
get involved she was message
53:04
we’re on social media at our acronym
53:06
see see a TDP and conservatives concern
53:09
on Facebook so hook up with us follow us
53:12
always lots of information and news
53:14
coming out so you won’t be bored well
53:16
thank you so much for coming on if you
53:20
want to give me a minute to do the
53:21
closeout in the closing song if you want
53:23
to hang out for a second afterwards so I
53:24
can kind of talk to you a little bit
53:25
more I would greatly appreciate it
53:27
it’s up to you though you can just sign
53:29
off and I couldn’t stop you again thank
53:34
you so much for coming on Spike Cohen
53:36
says that he hates that I didn’t know
53:37
his sarcasm and his what about Dylan
53:39
roof comment because he did use it and I
53:42
knew that but he also called me Jason on
53:45
his show last night and I hated that so
53:47
I figured that wasn’t going to say
53:48
anything to everybody else thank you
53:53
guys for tuning in remember that
53:55
tomorrow we have an all-new episode of
53:58
mr. America the beard of truth with
54:00
Jason lines then we’re taking two days
54:01
off before we come back for next week
54:05
with a brand new episode of mr. America
54:07
the bearded truth then next Tuesday you
54:09
have spike and me right here at muddied
54:11
waters of freedom and then next
54:13
Wednesday you get spike Cohen all by his
54:15
lonesome probably with the guest for my
54:19
fellow Americans and then next Thursday
54:21
we are right back here for the writer’s
54:23
block with I forgot to set up the music
54:26
with a brand new guest that I’ve ever
54:29
had on before and I’m really glad that
54:31
he and Spike have ironed out their
54:34
rivalry so that way I don’t have to feel
54:36
bad about having him up again thank you
54:40
all so much
54:40
tune in to all of the shows please like
54:43
please share please like please share
54:46
and be sure to rate us on iTunes and
54:48
Spotify and whatever your podcasting
54:51
happens again thank you all so much and
54:54
have a great weekend
55:09
[Music]


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