(((My Fellow Americans))) #91: Doug Bandow

DISCLOSURE

FULL TRANSCRIPT TEXT

[Music]
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be
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buried in my grave
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before i become a slave yes
00:27
that is
00:32
[Music]
00:42
[Music]
00:56
we have solely changed
01:01
[Music]
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i’ll be buried
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[Music]
01:22
that is
01:27
[Music]
01:36
[Music]
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but it seems like since
01:49
[Music]
01:51
we have sorely changed
01:56
[Music]
02:11
[Applause]
02:13
[Music]
02:19
south carolina you’re watching my
02:22
fellow americans with your host
02:25
spike cullen yes
02:29
yes it’s me it’s me i’m gonna explain
02:33
this
02:33
it’s me it is
02:40
how would we know that you wanted an
02:42
explanation about
02:43
what this thing is doing on my face if
02:45
you didn’t keep clapping
02:47
welcome to my fellow americans i am
02:50
literally spike cohen and yes you’re
02:53
again you’re saying why is this thing on
02:55
my face well i
02:56
as it says there on the screen i stabbed
02:59
myself
03:00
i was eating very excitedly last night
03:05
and one thing led to another i
03:08
i don’t think anyone’s proud of this
03:11
certainly not me
03:12
uh but i am okay um it does not appear
03:15
to require stitches
03:17
um but yeah i’m a grown man that stabbed
03:20
myself with a knife
03:22
uh but i’m okay it was accidental i did
03:24
not mean to do it
03:25
uh and yes i’m doing well thank you guys
03:28
so much for tuning in
03:29
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word this better
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07:27
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08:02
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it’s it says it’s ultra pure
08:17
made in the usa and kosher
08:20
and bpa-free like me
08:23
i don’t know if i’m bpa-free i assume i
08:25
am i’m not sure what bpa is
08:28
but i am non-carbonated
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anyway thank you so much for the water
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08:40
to tehran turks’s mom and him as always
08:41
folks we’re doing things a little bit
08:42
different tonight um i actually
08:44
interviewed my guest earlier so i’m
08:46
about to play a pre-recorded
08:48
uh interview that i did with him earlier
08:50
in the day i will be live though
08:52
because this is live i am live right now
08:54
in fact just to prove that i’m live
08:55
i’m gonna go to the comments right now
08:58
and respond to someone uh chris wren
09:01
says looks like spike was personally
09:03
injured maybe he should hire chris
09:04
reynolds
09:04
yeah but i’d be suing myself and also
09:06
i’m not in florida so
09:08
yeah that kind i mean it’s solid theory
09:11
but yes
09:12
so this is proof that i’m live right now
09:14
but uh we will be
09:15
i’m gonna be playing my interview uh
09:18
with a really really cool guy doug bondo
09:21
with the cato institute we had a really
09:22
good conversation
09:24
uh so be sure to check that out uh i’ll
09:26
be playing that shortly
09:27
i will be responding to your comments
09:29
and questions as we go live
09:31
or as we play it live and then once it’s
09:33
over i will be back i’ll answer some of
09:35
your questions and then we will be
09:36
closing out so
09:37
uh no uh not hitting myself with a hot
09:39
dog yet we didn’t get enough money we
09:41
are still 900
09:42
away actually 898 dollars away from the
09:45
opportunity for me to hit myself
09:47
with a salmon hot dog if you want to
09:50
know more
09:51
donate 898 and you’ll get to see it in
09:54
real time
09:55
so without further ado here is my
09:58
interview with mr
09:59
doug bondo you’ll want to check this out
10:01
this was a lot of fun
10:02
folks my guest tonight is a senior
10:05
fellow at the cato institute
10:07
specializing in foreign policy and civil
10:09
liberties
10:10
he worked as a special assistant to
10:12
president ronald reagan
10:13
and as the editor of the political
10:15
magazine inquiry
10:16
he writes regularly for leading
10:18
publications such as fortune magazine
10:20
national interest the wall street
10:22
journal the washington times as well as
10:25
antiwar.com his works can be found
10:28
at cato.org ladies and gentlemen my
10:31
fellow americans without any further ado
10:34
please join me in welcoming my guest mr
10:36
doug
10:37
bondo doug thanks so much for coming on
10:38
the show happy to come on
10:41
i i this is a very interesting subject
10:43
we’re going to be talking about with the
10:44
kind of creeping authoritarianism that’s
10:46
happening around the country and i’m
10:47
really
10:47
uh really excited to get your take on
10:49
that
10:51
no it’s quite a time i mean i’ve been in
10:52
washington for more than 40 years
10:55
and we’ve never quite had a time like
10:56
this one it’s it’s quite a challenge for
10:59
all of us especially people
11:00
interested in the freedom ideology
11:03
absolutely and folks
11:04
be sure to comment with your questions
11:07
and thoughts
11:08
and uh i will this is being pre-recorded
11:10
but i will be there live to tell you
11:12
whether you are
11:13
right or wrong now doug before we get
11:15
started i always ask my guests whenever
11:16
they come on and they’re a specialist
11:18
in something what is it that got you
11:20
into wanting to be a specialist in
11:22
civil liberties and foreign policy was
11:24
it was it a aha moment or
11:26
sort of a gradual evolution of time tell
11:28
us the the bondo genesis story
11:30
well to some degree i’m a generalist and
11:32
those are areas
11:34
of particular fascination now i will
11:36
have a bachelor’s in economics i have a
11:38
law degree
11:39
i went into the reagan administration
11:41
focusing much more on economic issues
11:44
i worked for ronald reagan’s economic
11:46
primary his domestic policy advisor
11:48
martin anderson who i met actually while
11:50
i was in stanford law school
11:52
he was at the hoover institution so i
11:54
spent my early years focused on domestic
11:57
issues economics regulation
11:59
legal issues but i always had an
12:01
interest in international issues my
12:03
father was in the air force
12:04
i spent you know a year part of my youth
12:07
in the united kingdom and germany
12:09
i found those interest issues very
12:11
interesting so i started writing about
12:13
them and just over time
12:15
quite frankly i came to the point where
12:17
you know like in the 1980s 1990s i’d
12:20
look back and say
12:21
i was writing about these same issues
12:23
when i was in law school in the domestic
12:25
side
12:26
minimum wage social security budget
12:28
deficits
12:29
right but international issues were
12:30
changing and they are incredibly
12:32
fascinating
12:33
you know follow the berlin wall changes
12:35
in other countries
12:37
collapse of communism so that really
12:39
pushed me much more towards the
12:41
international issues
12:42
the civil liberties kind of carry you
12:44
know my interest
12:46
in the law gets into that as well as
12:47
some of it’s international i do
12:48
international religious
12:51
you persecution it allows me to get that
12:52
international flavor but also
12:54
you know liberties for folks as well
12:56
well and that’s actually one of the
12:57
things we’re going to be talking about
12:58
is religious
12:59
persecution around the world now uh to
13:01
preface this i
13:02
i wish i could say that this was going
13:04
to be a boring episode that we were
13:05
going to talk about how things are just
13:07
kind of staying the same maybe getting a
13:08
little bit better but
13:09
unfortunately and and you probably
13:11
didn’t need to see a report to know this
13:13
uh for the folks at home but
13:15
unfortunately things are kind of slowly
13:16
getting worse around the world
13:18
according to the most recent 2021 report
13:21
by freedom house
13:22
uh america is uh less free
13:25
uh or actually the world is less free
13:28
than it has been
13:29
uh in quite some time in 2005 uh
13:32
there were 89 countries that were
13:34
considered mostly free
13:36
um or free that’s gone down to 82
13:39
and the number of countries that are
13:41
considered either partly free
13:43
or not free has continued to steadily
13:45
steadily rise and so we’re going to talk
13:47
a little bit about the
13:48
religious persecution aspect of that the
13:51
first one is something that
13:52
a lot of people i don’t think have heard
13:53
about we’ve heard about the rohingya is
13:56
that
13:56
am i pronouncing that correctly in
13:59
in myanmar uh the uh the uyghur muslims
14:02
in china
14:03
we’ve heard a lot about this um but we
14:05
haven’t heard about the jehovah’s
14:07
witnesses so in
14:08
in russia uh back in 2017
14:11
jehovah’s witnesses were declared an
14:13
extremist religious group
14:15
but that didn’t really start to heat up
14:16
until a few weeks ago can you tell us a
14:18
little bit about that and
14:19
where that started well the jehovah’s
14:22
witnesses are a small
14:24
in a sense christian offshoot i mean
14:25
they’re not orthodox christian but they
14:27
spring
14:28
you know they take the bible as their
14:29
authority they have some doctrines that
14:31
don’t fit
14:32
with kind of majority christians
14:34
nevertheless they’re very much
14:36
part of the western experience i mean i
14:38
have relatives who are
14:39
jehovah’s witnesses you know they’re
14:41
relatively small i mean they’re kind of
14:42
famous for uh
14:44
going door-to-door i mean they’re very
14:46
much evangelized they’re
14:48
they try to spread their faith you know
14:50
but these are folks who were famous in
14:52
the legal sense because back in the
14:54
you know 1940s there were two supreme
14:56
court cases
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because the they what they do is they
14:59
respect state authority but they refuse
15:01
to
15:02
in a sense recognize it that is right
15:04
they won’t be in a position where it
15:05
appears they’re worshiping it so they
15:06
wouldn’t do the pledge of allegiance
15:08
you know with their view as they would
15:09
don’t interfere with anybody else but
15:11
for them
15:12
that’s venerating you know it’s kind of
15:14
giving almost kind of you know a worship
15:16
towards you know a state symbol so there
15:19
are two
15:19
court cases the first said they had to
15:21
do it the second you know thankfully he
15:23
said the constitution protected them
15:25
so they’re a fairly minor sect you know
15:28
but
15:28
they’ve tended to be victimized overseas
15:30
and for some reason
15:32
russia has really gotten after them and
15:34
my assessment i mean
15:36
most of the countries that persecute
15:39
either are
15:40
frankly islamic in majority islamic or
15:42
their authoritarian former communist
15:45
that is that they have that background
15:47
of state control
15:48
in russia is one of the few it has that
15:50
but it’s also
15:51
orthodox church tends to be very closely
15:54
identified
15:55
with state authority so i think the what
15:58
happened here
15:58
is to some degree it’s simply they
16:01
acknowledge
16:02
protestantism catholicism as being you
16:04
know kind of respected religions
16:06
but jehovah’s witnesses just don’t fit i
16:08
mean they are their resistance to kind
16:10
of
16:11
symbolism of the state you know their
16:13
tendency to evangelize
16:15
and they’ve been designated essentially
16:17
as a terrorist group it’s
16:19
utterly crazy these are i mean i i don’t
16:22
mean it in a defensive way they’re
16:23
harmless i mean these are not
16:24
right people who want to undermine the
16:26
state that have no interest in bothering
16:28
anybody
16:30
and they have been just victimized
16:32
viciously victimized
16:34
you know where they’re arrested their
16:35
buildings have been taken the church has
16:37
officially has been closed down they
16:40
meet they’re subject to penalties i mean
16:42
it’s extraordinary
16:43
and it’s gotten worse in recent years so
16:46
you’re saying they’ve been essentially
16:47
labeled in a terrorist group has there
16:49
ever
16:50
i mean i think i probably know the
16:51
answer to this already has there been an
16:53
actual incident of
16:55
jehovah’s witnesses engaging in or
16:57
threatening any terrorism or is this
16:59
and i guess a follow-up question of that
17:00
is you mentioned both the aspect of
17:04
that you know this is a former communist
17:05
state and there’s that aspect of
17:07
controlling religions uh
17:09
and and and sort of suppressing
17:10
religions but also the the fact that
17:12
they’re from the orthodox church
17:14
which of these would you say is more of
17:16
a factor in this or or is it really kind
17:18
of a combination of the two
17:19
i think they both fit that is the
17:22
authoritarian nature of the russian
17:24
system
17:25
really does i mean you can argue it goes
17:27
back to imperial russia
17:28
then through the soviet union right
17:30
there’s a hip
17:32
you know russia’s democratic moment was
17:34
very short under boris yeltsin
17:35
you know and putin took over and really
17:38
moved much more in authoritarian
17:39
direction
17:40
so that’s all there so i think that’s
17:42
the base and i do think
17:44
the orthodox church for example does not
17:46
like those who evangelize
17:48
and that’s happened with the greek
17:49
orthodox church as well i mean look what
17:52
happens in these countries is nothing
17:53
compared to
17:54
saudi arabia afghanistan i mean the
17:57
country iran i mean countries like that
17:59
are just vicious what they do
18:01
you know the orthodox but they do tend
18:03
to penalize people
18:05
who are going out and evangelizing
18:07
proselytizing
18:08
and the jehovah’s witnesses have a
18:10
reputation for that
18:12
so my guess is that the two have kind of
18:14
come together
18:15
uh there was a supreme court case in
18:18
russia that said they fell within these
18:20
provisions of being kind of a dangerous
18:22
group and at that point
18:24
i mean the full power of the state went
18:25
upon them putin at one point
18:28
wondered why this was all happening and
18:30
i think it does give a sense that while
18:32
he’s
18:32
broadly in charge he’s that he’s the top
18:35
guy i mean a lot of stuff happens there
18:36
and it’s not clear
18:38
this is all directed by him but he’s
18:40
never tried to intervene to stop
18:42
it and in recent months it’s gotten
18:44
worse
18:45
that is unfortunate and the thing is you
18:47
know i i live somewhere where
18:49
jehovah’s witnesses come a lot and so
18:51
it’s that you know saturday morning
18:53
uh you know if if you fell asleep
18:55
downstairs uh on the couch they’re going
18:57
to wake you up
18:57
knocking on the door but they’ve we’ve
18:59
never had a problem with them or
19:00
anything like that other than we wish
19:02
they wouldn’t knock on our door
19:03
uh but you know that obviously doesn’t
19:05
rise to the level of terrorism
19:07
and it’s this is also similar to
19:09
non-religious stuff in russia like you
19:10
know people that are
19:11
proclaiming you know lgbt rights or
19:14
protesting
19:15
the abuses and excesses of the putin
19:17
administration
19:18
they’re also being targeted so it’s
19:20
pretty much anyone that doesn’t fall
19:21
into a very
19:22
narrow line of what putin would like to
19:24
see or what i guess the russian
19:25
government would like to see
19:27
including i guess jehovah’s witnesses
19:28
who it would be argued that this is kind
19:31
of a standard or at least
19:32
an old school christian take on your
19:34
relationship with the state
19:36
you respect its existence but you don’t
19:38
recognize it as an authority because you
19:40
you only recognize one authority and it
19:42
seems like that’s kind of you know
19:43
biting them right now
19:44
but the irony is they don’t resist
19:46
there’s no active resistance i mean they
19:48
don’t
19:49
hold protests they don’t you know stage
19:51
tax
19:52
resistance i mean it’s like in the u.s
19:54
you know i mean they got in trouble
19:55
because they refused to give the pledge
19:57
of allegiance
19:58
right i mean that’s kind of it i mean
20:00
it’s not yeah they didn’t want to serve
20:01
i mean they were willing to be you know
20:03
kind of do alternative service they
20:04
wouldn’t serve your
20:05
military or military role but that’s
20:08
kind of it it’s not as if these were
20:09
active subversives and that’s what makes
20:12
such a tragedy is they’re such a small
20:14
group
20:14
they’re very serious believers i mean
20:16
these people were persecuted by the
20:17
nazis
20:18
i mean you know they end up in
20:19
concentration camps so the jehovah’s
20:22
witnesses are very serious folks
20:24
and they’re being punished for no reason
20:25
i mean it makes no sense
20:27
yeah it’s it is very unfortunate and as
20:29
you mentioned
20:30
uh there are parts of the world
20:32
particularly in many uh muslim
20:34
countries where repression of other
20:36
religions
20:37
uh all the way to banning other
20:39
religions is kind of standard fare so
20:41
we’re focusing more on things that are
20:43
uh um um new and divergent things that
20:47
are happening these are these are things
20:48
that are kind of coming up and getting
20:50
worse
20:50
in the for example saudi arabia it’s
20:53
been the status quo from the beginning
20:54
that you know if
20:56
there’s a very very strict uh what you
20:58
can and cannot do
20:59
even as a foreigner uh practicing a a a
21:02
non-native open religion religious
21:05
practice by non-muslims and
21:07
you know shia muslims are highly
21:09
repressed yes
21:10
and so that and that’s relative and you
21:13
know basically conversion apostasy these
21:15
things can get the death penalty
21:16
you know this is fairly common in a
21:18
number of countries yeah they have a
21:20
mild amount of tolerance of for example
21:22
like foreigners who are there for
21:24
uh energy sector jobs and things like
21:27
that in their own territories and areas
21:29
very
21:30
quietly and yeah very quietly and humbly
21:33
practicing don’t cause trouble you don’t
21:35
tell anybody it’s fine they won’t bother
21:37
you but if you’re any if you’re outside
21:38
that protected you know kind of
21:40
existence then you’re in trouble
21:42
yeah no if you’re if you’re an actual
21:44
saudi then no you have to be a sunni
21:46
muslim or you have to be very quiet
21:47
about it
21:48
a lot of it’s the foreigners the people
21:50
the expatriates who are brought in
21:52
i mean they bring in filipinos they
21:54
bring in i mean there’s some pakistani
21:55
christians and others
21:57
you know these are folks hindus i mean
21:59
if you’re that expatriate group
22:01
you get in real trouble if you try to
22:02
worship separately
22:04
right and so speaking of muslims in uh
22:07
myanmar
22:08
or as some people know it as burma uh
22:10
we’re seeing right now uh that there
22:12
is a uh a coup that has taken place and
22:15
i’m not sure
22:16
and you can give a little bit more about
22:17
this this is a coup that did it ever
22:19
really stop because my understanding was
22:21
that the the president was still active
22:23
the the
22:23
i forget her name the the lady that
22:25
they’ve deposed
22:26
she was still actively involved in
22:28
continuing uh the the
22:30
uh the repression some would call it the
22:32
genocide of the rohingya muslims
22:34
uh of the karen people so i mean is is
22:37
this just
22:37
uh the same policy but with the military
22:40
face instead of the
22:41
uh elected official face or was there a
22:43
break in that when she was in charge
22:46
it’s complicated i’ve actually done a
22:47
lot of work with the korean i’ve been
22:49
over the border many times
22:51
i mean the good news is you know i mean
22:53
as of roughly a decade ago the fighting
22:55
stopped i mean i’ve been there when
22:56
there was active combat so most of the
22:58
ethnic groups have had a fairly
23:00
you know i mean they’ve had a ceasefire
23:02
that for the most part has held
23:04
like in 1962 as the original military
23:07
coup
23:08
the the hunter ruled brutally you know
23:10
for years you know back in
23:13
the 80s there was an election her party
23:15
won it
23:16
at which point the military avoided the
23:18
results there were massive protests
23:20
she spent about 15 years in
23:24
under house arrest uh so back in around
23:27
you know 2010 they decided
23:30
and a lot of this is i think the
23:33
military i mean the general assessment
23:34
is
23:35
it’s a very independent military the
23:36
chinese embrace was very close
23:38
because the us and europeans had
23:40
sanctions
23:41
india and japan had some involvement but
23:43
for the most part they were very
23:45
isolated so
23:46
china was their main benefactor and main
23:49
trading partner
23:50
and that they were very uncomfortable
23:51
with that so the military decided to
23:53
come up with a hybrid system
23:55
so the military had elections
23:58
they maintained control of kind of
24:01
essentially the interior ministry the
24:02
defense ministry
24:04
and one of the other kind of it’s
24:05
basically the um kind of border defense
24:08
or what you know
24:08
border control ministry and they held 25
24:12
of parliament they got to a point and
24:14
you know then they ran the military
24:16
separately
24:17
and then they had a civilian government
24:19
and what they did in the constitution
24:20
was banned aung
24:22
suchi you know from becoming president
24:25
they put in a provision
24:26
that prevented anybody with a foreign
24:28
relative from being president
24:29
but she had been married to a british
24:31
man who died of cancer and she still had
24:33
two
24:34
british citizen sons so that it was put
24:37
in there just to stop her
24:39
so they ended up she ended up creating a
24:41
new position as council
24:42
kind of state counselor that as she
24:44
explained was above the president
24:46
so her party won a big victory five
24:48
years ago six years ago
24:50
yeah the betting is the military thought
24:53
that they were going to get a fractured
24:54
parliament
24:55
and that they could put together
24:56
essentially a coalition and rule
24:59
and they didn’t get that and then last
25:00
november there was another election the
25:02
party
25:02
her ruling party won an even bigger
25:04
margin uh the rohingya
25:07
the military has been in charge
25:10
she basically defended them you know and
25:13
actually at the hague there was a case
25:14
and she went there to defend their
25:15
conduct
25:17
how much of i think what we found out
25:19
was number one is she’s a berman
25:20
nationalist i mean she’s with the
25:22
majority ethnic burmese
25:23
as opposed to the law the chin and all
25:26
the other ethnic groups yep
25:27
well in the end she is a nationalist
25:30
and i think that and you know that
25:32
didn’t mean she’s not for democracy it
25:34
just means
25:34
guess what she’s not one of us i mean
25:36
she’s in the sense if she’s not a
25:38
liberal
25:39
for whom you know that it would set
25:41
aside the nationalism
25:43
right i wouldn’t blame her for all of it
25:45
she didn’t control the military
25:46
i assume part of that was a political
25:50
judgment on her part
25:52
i mean i do think she could have done
25:53
more i mean there are a lot there
25:54
journalists who’ve gone to jail
25:56
there are a lot of things where it
25:57
strikes many of us that
25:59
she did fail to give us much better
26:01
democracy but she’s far better than the
26:03
generals
26:04
so the the view here is that the the
26:07
basically the the ruling general wanted
26:08
to be president
26:10
and she basically told him to screw
26:12
himself
26:13
you know that the idea that she’d hand
26:15
the presidency to him after he rigged
26:17
the system
26:18
and now he’s simply upset because he
26:20
didn’t get as much as he wanted
26:21
[Applause]
26:22
that he decided to move and i think the
26:24
other thing the fact they won an even
26:26
bigger margin told the military
26:29
that you know that she and her party
26:31
were winning
26:32
that it’s going to be hard for the
26:34
military to withstand
26:36
successive i mean like 80 majorities
26:39
i mean controlling parliament having all
26:42
the civilian offices
26:43
they decided they wanted to grab it back
26:45
and i think the end game was essentially
26:47
the thailand system
26:48
which was they’re going to disqualify
26:51
her disqualify the party rig the
26:53
the political system use everything to
26:56
kind of make sure they win the votes
26:57
they want and then they hope they can
26:59
rule
26:59
through a fractured parliament that’s
27:01
essentially what the thai generals did
27:03
they staged a coup in 2014
27:05
they rigged the system really cheated at
27:07
every stage
27:08
so the same the hunter leader is now
27:10
prime minister uh it’s not working out
27:12
well i mean the the the
27:14
mayan you know the myanmar the burmese
27:16
you know people are resisting they’ve
27:18
had
27:18
18 people got killed a couple of days
27:20
ago in protests
27:21
they’re continuing so it’s a mess i’m
27:23
not sure how it’s going to turn out
27:25
yeah and obviously that’s for the
27:27
burmese people then for the
27:29
the the ethnic minority groups like the
27:31
rohingya who who are actually they’re
27:33
um refugees who fled across the border
27:35
into bangladesh
27:37
uh uh originally so they’re not only are
27:39
they an ethnic minority they’re not
27:41
actually
27:41
native to bangladesh at least up until
27:44
recently
27:44
so you know it’s it’s unfortunate to see
27:46
how do you think i mean obviously you
27:48
don’t have a crystal ball but
27:49
do you think that this is going to be a
27:51
people’s revolt that overturns the junta
27:53
or do they have the kind of power to
27:54
just
27:54
wait it out and until things calm down
27:57
and just retain control
27:58
well i mean the hunter has been very
28:00
bloody in the past i mean back in
28:02
i think it was 87 and then there was a
28:04
revolt led by a lot of the buddhist
28:05
monks
28:06
i think it was 2007. both of those had a
28:09
lot of shooting and a lot of dead people
28:12
um what’s one of the interesting things
28:14
this time is that civil servants have
28:16
gotten into it
28:17
you know i mean so basically you’ve had
28:19
bank employees you know men
28:21
and people the different ministries
28:22
refusing to do their work
28:24
so the government has had a hard time
28:26
making
28:27
you know the process work if they
28:30
continue that
28:31
i mean it’s going to be it’s hard for
28:32
the military to run everything
28:35
if they get constant strikes and
28:36
resistance uh
28:38
i mean the problem is people have to
28:40
feed themselves at some point
28:42
i i do think this is going to be a lot
28:44
tougher i mean i’m worried that the
28:45
military at some point just start
28:47
shooting
28:48
uh i mean in the past they had no
28:49
hesitancy
28:51
we hoped over the last decade that we
28:53
had a new crew
28:54
who were less likely to do so but
28:56
everything i’ve heard about the junta
28:57
leader is bad
28:59
i mean this is not you know kind of a
29:00
friendly warm and fuzzy guy
29:02
and the military is very independent
29:04
believes they should run things
29:06
so i i worry i mean this this could get
29:09
very very ugly
29:10
and it’s not easy for the west to
29:12
intervene they put sanctions on
29:14
military figures and military you know
29:16
commercial enterprises
29:17
but we don’t have a lot of easy ways in
29:19
there and you don’t have a lot of
29:21
leverage because there hasn’t because of
29:23
years of sanctions and
29:25
and separation between uh the us economy
29:27
and the bangladeshi one there’s not
29:29
really much you can threaten
29:30
um when it comes so there was uh buried
29:33
in the
29:34
uh many among the many provisions of the
29:37
um of the last uh stimulus bill that was
29:40
to pass at the end of last year
29:42
was i think 158 million dollars that was
29:45
going towards
29:46
uh i think it was fighting against
29:48
gender and
29:49
ethnic based violence and i remember
29:53
remarking i actually
29:54
posted it i said it sounds like the us
29:56
government is about to give
29:59
like close to a quarter of a billion
30:01
dollars
30:02
to a military-run government that has a
30:05
history of
30:06
i don’t know about specifically
30:07
gender-based violence i guess except for
30:09
what they do
30:09
to their president but you know
30:11
definitely ethnic-based violence
30:13
was that was there an actual plan behind
30:15
that or was that just
30:16
pissing money away that they knew was
30:18
going to be used poorly
30:19
well the question of whether the the
30:22
burmese government before the coup had
30:25
capacity to use that money well i mean
30:27
i’d be somewhat skeptical
30:29
but it was going to go to civilian
30:31
ministry that is in fact
30:33
the national league for democracy that
30:34
is aung suchi’s party
30:37
controlled all the civilian ministries
30:39
and
30:40
she acted as effective head of state
30:42
even i mean there’s a president
30:44
which she couldn’t be but then she’s the
30:46
state counselor who told the president
30:48
what to do
30:49
so in that sense the military didn’t
30:51
have direct control over it
30:53
i don’t know if that money’s been
30:54
delivered i think all you know all aid
30:56
you know
30:56
have money has have been shut off at the
30:58
moment right
30:59
the u.s government has tried to halt any
31:01
kind of cash going in
31:03
i mean europeans too the japanese are
31:05
still involved
31:06
a number of companies are pulling out i
31:07
mean who wants to invest where this
31:10
whole place can go up in flames
31:12
but the military look the military like
31:14
i said i mean in 1962 was the coup
31:17
i mean they basically spent 50 years
31:19
isolated
31:21
they’re quite willing they know what
31:22
that they know what they’ve gotten into
31:24
they know what that’s like
31:26
you don’t want to be dependent on the
31:27
chinese but they’re willing to do it if
31:28
they have to
31:29
and the chinese i think will pick up the
31:31
slack if they believe it gives them
31:32
political benefits
31:34
well and you know going transitioning
31:36
into the chinese because that’s
31:38
that is a template for for what’s
31:41
happening in bangladesh as well
31:43
uh there are many different things on on
31:45
the front of china that is you know very
31:47
repressive of the chinese people
31:49
one that’s been uh becoming more uh
31:52
prominent and spoken about at least in
31:53
the western world
31:54
is the the repression or the crisis of
31:57
the the uyghur muslim people
31:59
who live in the i guess the north
32:01
typically are in like the northern north
32:02
kind of north
32:03
northwest yeah um and uh
32:06
we’ve heard reports of rape camps
32:10
where they’re basically eliminating the
32:12
the uyghur people through uh having han
32:14
chinese men
32:15
raping uh uyghur women to basically you
32:17
know dilute their bloodline
32:19
uh you know some have referred to it as
32:21
a genocide
32:22
our president has referred to it as a
32:24
different cultural norm
32:25
what are what is your take on what’s
32:27
happening among the uyghur because i
32:28
i’ve heard
32:29
especially in libertarian circles i’ve
32:31
heard everything from this is one of the
32:32
worst things that’s happening in the on
32:34
the planet right now
32:35
to this is you know neoconservative uh
32:38
imperialist propaganda against the
32:40
chinese government
32:42
and it’s way overblown what is your take
32:44
on what’s happening there
32:45
look it’s it’s hard to be too harsh on
32:49
the chinese government these days
32:51
i mean one has to be very careful i’m
32:54
very much against a cold war like i’ve
32:56
been to china more than i’ve been to any
32:57
other country
32:58
other than like to german airports i
33:00
mean if you count landing in munich and
33:02
frankfurt onto somewhere else i’ve been
33:03
in germany more
33:04
i’ve been to china at least 20 times
33:06
i’ve spoken at universities there
33:08
a dozen times i mean i’ve been on trips
33:11
i know i have friends there
33:12
i mean i china is a fascinating
33:14
fantastic incredible culture
33:17
the government’s bad and i worry like
33:19
i’ve just been listening
33:20
there’s a group a left-wing dominated
33:23
group that’s kind of no cold war and
33:24
anti-war
33:25
which is good it’s trying to bring
33:26
people together but right before we
33:28
started i’ve been listening i’m
33:29
transcribing some comments
33:31
where you have people on the left who
33:33
are basically whitewashing the chinese
33:35
government
33:35
everything’s wonderful they’re fabulous
33:38
and it’s nonsense i mean it’s simply
33:40
nonsense
33:41
i mean this is a regime under xi jinping
33:44
so we go back
33:45
i mean it started getting harsh before
33:47
that but he became party secretary in
33:48
2012
33:49
president 2013. he has
33:53
at almost every level tightened control
33:56
and that means tightening control over
33:57
the internet destroyed what had been an
33:59
active human rights bar
34:01
wiped out independent journalists a huge
34:04
persecution against
34:05
every religion christianity islam taoism
34:09
buddhism i mean
34:10
everything uh internet controls are far
34:13
tougher i mean this is i mean it’s
34:15
brutal stuff
34:16
and i and it controls little controls
34:19
over academia
34:20
uh a year and a half ago i showed up in
34:22
shanghai to give a presentation
34:24
on u.s indo-pacific uh
34:27
kind of policy i’ve spoken at this
34:30
conference two years before i showed up
34:31
this is 2019
34:33
and um i was picked up at the airport
34:35
friday night and the person picking me
34:37
up said oh
34:38
but we found out yesterday that we can’t
34:40
have any foreigners speak without having
34:42
gotten the approval of beijing
34:44
which was impossible in the time they
34:46
had so
34:48
no one’s we are doing tourism tomorrow
34:51
and i was the only american there but
34:52
there are asians the same thing
34:54
and then i was supposed to give an
34:55
address to students on sunday
34:58
and i met informally with some of the
35:00
conference people at my hotel that day
35:02
you know and this this is how there’s
35:04
some we have a libertarian group that’s
35:06
spoken ten years
35:07
i’ve done it seven of them uh given at
35:10
the school of marxism at northeastern
35:11
university in shenyang
35:13
we give free market economic seminars
35:16
until
35:16
2019 the school invited us we said yes
35:19
they brought us over and off we went
35:22
2019 we had to file this big long form
35:25
send photos explain when we’d been to
35:27
china
35:28
answer questions about you know when
35:31
what
35:31
groups did we belong to all of that was
35:33
shipped off to the education department
35:35
in beijing
35:36
they had to decide to let us in uh cato
35:40
for years worked with a group called the
35:41
um oh uh uni rule
35:44
institute i mean it was headed by um a
35:46
fellow named mao not mao zedong was a
35:48
different family but a family member
35:50
different different mao yeah um but they
35:53
were always very careful they didn’t
35:54
attack the communist party they
35:56
advocated free market economic reform
35:58
and for years i mean cato gave them the
36:00
friedman prize i think it was back in
36:02
2012.
36:03
so we in our group that would do this
36:05
these teaching every summer
36:07
in northeastern university we typically
36:09
do a conference with
36:10
uni rule institute afterwards these
36:13
would be advertised
36:14
they would be open people could come and
36:17
again we’re all careful i mean like
36:19
when we talked at the university we
36:20
never directly attacked the ccp
36:23
students are smart enough you talk about
36:25
how the us government screwed something
36:26
up
36:27
we figure they can make connections and
36:29
off hours you can talk about i mean i
36:31
and i’ve been asked i was
36:32
asking class about gentlemen square i
36:34
mean other stuff where you’re like
36:36
oh boy any students who are willing to
36:38
you know ask questions
36:40
you know muni ruling like when in 2019 i
36:43
went uh
36:44
we were there and then two of us baroon
36:46
namitra who’s a wonderful free-market
36:48
indian
36:49
and you know economist that has a small
36:51
think tank in india
36:52
and i went out to see our friends well
36:54
they were kind of pushed to the third
36:55
headquarters
36:56
they’d been kicked out of the first two
36:58
in beijing
36:59
and at that point the executive director
37:02
couldn’t travel
37:03
their books could not be published and
37:05
they were in the final stages of having
37:06
their business license pulled
37:08
and shortly after we were there they
37:10
were closed down by the state
37:12
so stuff that i mean xinjiang i mean i
37:15
think it’s real not
37:16
i i worry about use of word genocide
37:19
simply because
37:20
these are not death camps and we’re not
37:21
killing people so
37:23
i always worry genocide and people use
37:25
concentration camps you think nazis
37:28
i mean you think you know i mean you
37:29
think the chinese
37:31
what the chinese are effectively doing
37:33
is trying to destroy uyghur and muslim
37:37
culture
37:38
and this dates back roughly to 2017.
37:40
there are some terrorist incidents
37:42
i mean china does not say try to find
37:44
the guilty parties
37:45
china says we must crush you know
37:47
radical islam
37:48
so the way we do that is to try to force
37:50
all of these people no longer to be
37:51
muslims
37:53
and i mean it’s that’s very repressive i
37:55
mean people have applications on their
37:57
phones
37:58
they get stopped at checkpoints police
38:00
look at their phones
38:02
they’ve put han chinese into people’s
38:04
homes to essentially spy on them
38:07
you know children have been taken from
38:08
their parents and the estimates are up
38:11
to a million people in re-education
38:13
essentially camps forest labor you know
38:16
it’s it’s
38:16
the you know we don’t know for sure the
38:18
numbers and people have criticized some
38:20
of the numbers like i’m
38:21
yeah who knows i mean right you’re
38:22
trying to count that sort of thing
38:24
but we have lots of evidence i mean we
38:26
have satellite footage of camps
38:28
we have anecdotal evidence we have
38:30
people who’ve escaped
38:32
we have found we have relatives around
38:34
the world who’ve been pressured by their
38:36
families
38:36
and the chinese government not to say
38:38
anything less bad things happen to their
38:40
families
38:41
right this is real so i think we have to
38:44
understand is that
38:46
what’s going on in china is awful now it
38:48
doesn’t mean we should go to war
38:50
it doesn’t mean a cold war makes sense
38:52
and it certainly doesn’t mean isolate
38:54
them i mean
38:55
people complain and say oh everything
38:57
failed right you know we
38:58
traded with them they were supposed to
38:59
become democratic and so
39:01
i i would admit i was overly optimistic
39:03
and others were as well
39:05
but i would argue that in fact western
39:07
engagement has been a great success
39:10
1976 mao zedong dies
39:13
china was at the end point of the
39:15
cultural revolution i mean if you want
39:17
to
39:17
read a horrible story i mean i’m reading
39:19
a book right now the end of the world
39:21
it’s 700 pages long
39:23
it’s on the cultural revolution it was
39:25
madness
39:26
it was a civil war it was a purge it was
39:29
mao zedong it has lunatic worst
39:32
this is post this is post great leap
39:35
forward or during the great yeah
39:37
well suppose greatly forward like 58
39:40
through 60 or something so greatly
39:43
would kill tens of millions of people
39:46
mass feminists such
39:47
and the same author wrote a book on the
39:49
great leap forward so that’s my next
39:50
book i mean
39:51
really you know fun reading these days
39:53
but
39:54
the uh tens of millions of people died
39:56
in that it was so bad that
39:58
communist party cadre you know
40:00
essentially forced
40:01
mao to back away on it and he lost
40:04
authority because it was so
40:05
awful he used the cultural revolution in
40:07
a sense to try to re-establish control
40:09
he started it in 66 it went on for
40:11
roughly 10 years
40:13
you know they for at least a million
40:14
people died in it i mean it was
40:16
all over the country i mean it’s
40:17
fighting it’s factions
40:19
people a mob shows up and beat people to
40:22
death i mean
40:24
madness this is 1976. mao dies
40:27
he’s gone other members of the of his
40:29
clique the gang of four they called it
40:31
they’re all arrested deng xiaoping takes
40:34
charge and all of a sudden we do
40:35
economic reform
40:37
and what you have is a china that
40:38
suddenly grows economically
40:40
people have autonomy i mean when i first
40:43
went there
40:43
i mean they stole you’re trying to get
40:45
married you need state approval where
40:46
you worked you needed state approval i
40:48
was there
40:48
my first trip was back in 92. they were
40:51
finally getting out of that
40:53
so i would argue that what they got from
40:55
that is rapid economic growth and
40:57
expanded private
40:58
you know sector even politics with
41:01
tiananmen square i mean there are real
41:03
liberals and they lost
41:05
but it was always a looser system like
41:07
you know universities can invite
41:09
westerners
41:10
we can have conversations i mean there
41:13
was a looseness there as long as you
41:14
didn’t directly
41:15
challenge the communist party all of
41:18
that in my view came out of kind of
41:20
western engagement
41:21
and xi jinping has reversed that but
41:23
look the guy can he he could be gone
41:25
tomorrow and then the world changes
41:27
mao zedong dies his pictures are still
41:30
there but his ideology disappeared it
41:32
was wiped away almost instantly
41:34
so so my view on this is it’s critical
41:37
that we be honest about what china is
41:40
and i know libertarians who are hesitant
41:42
to do that because they’re afraid it
41:43
gives
41:44
aid and comfort to hawks but my reaction
41:47
is if you want to defeat the hawks you
41:48
got to be honest about what you’re
41:50
facing
41:51
the last thing you want to do is kind of
41:53
act as if you’re some nitwit no
41:55
everything’s wonderful it’s not i mean
41:57
because it’s not
41:58
i mean i have chinese friends what the i
42:00
mean this it’s a different world
42:02
what they say how they talk how they
42:04
it’s it’s bad now
42:06
so let’s not hide that the question is
42:08
how do you help that one of it is trying
42:09
to break through censorship
42:11
another is don’t play nationalist games
42:14
i mean
42:15
pompeo directly attacks the communist
42:17
party i hate the communist party
42:19
but if you’re attacking it that way
42:21
you’re much more likely to drive it and
42:23
the people together
42:24
they’re nationalists they defend their
42:26
government no i mean
42:28
so the question is how do you appeal to
42:29
young people who are kind of liberal
42:31
they’re still nationalists
42:32
but they don’t like government controls
42:34
we need to think strategically as
42:36
opposed to
42:37
you know kind of a blunderbuss approach
42:39
and take into account where they are
42:41
on human rights as well as everything
42:42
else yeah and the thing is
42:44
you know going back to what you said in
42:47
our
42:48
zeal not to accept the uh the narrative
42:51
of the neocons and the warhawks
42:53
we need not just become anti-us
42:55
reactionaries that if they say something
42:57
is happening
42:58
then we just assume it isn’t because
43:01
this
43:01
govern this isn’t a u.s problem of
43:04
repressive governments that lie to the
43:05
people
43:06
that is a government problem china is an
43:08
example of a repressive government that
43:10
lies to its people
43:11
and harms them as well so we we need to
43:13
have a holistic approach
43:14
to how we’re looking it’s okay for both
43:16
sides to be bad this is not where
43:18
there’s a
43:19
it’s not a binary thing and you know
43:21
when it comes to
43:23
what’s happening uh specifically with
43:25
what you’re talking about
43:26
in china this is also an example of how
43:29
things are not
43:30
static you know you talked about how
43:31
coming out of the cultural revolution
43:33
there was this sort of gradual
43:34
evolution towards better uh conditions
43:37
uh
43:37
and more money for the for the people
43:39
more economic growth rapid
43:40
economic hyper economic growth as well
43:43
as uh
43:44
growth social growth and being able to
43:45
say more and being able to be more
43:47
involved and being able to have more uh
43:49
freedom and i
43:51
i do believe that the war hawks that as
43:53
you said like played the nationalist
43:54
games
43:55
they want the ccp and the people of
43:58
china
43:58
to get more together the whole point is
44:00
to create that adversarial nature
44:02
to justify the military-industrial
44:05
complex
44:06
uh embargoes all of the things that they
44:08
like that this is part of the neocon
44:10
neo lib world order is creating this
44:13
sort of
44:14
counter nationalist uh uh
44:17
balance and saber rattling uh constantly
44:20
happening to justify
44:22
spending trillions of dollars on on you
44:24
know military increases and
44:26
to keep a constant aggressive war
44:28
footing around the world so
44:29
you have this sort of two authority two
44:32
increasingly authoritarian governments
44:34
playing off of one another um we talk a
44:37
lot about the repression of people in
44:39
their own countries right so
44:41
you know the chinese people being
44:42
oppressed in china uh we talk about we
44:44
were talking about different people
44:47
burmese people and and other and ethnic
44:49
minorities in
44:50
burma that are being repressed and
44:52
people in russia that are being
44:53
repressed
44:54
but in their countries there’s a concept
44:56
of something called
44:57
transnational repression where citizens
45:00
of
45:01
a country that aren’t even in that
45:03
country
45:04
are being repressed uh that very common
45:07
in china
45:08
russia iran turkey i would argue in the
45:10
u.s i think
45:11
fatca is a repression of americans
45:14
living abroad that it doesn’t matter
45:15
where you earn your income you better
45:17
give double digits of it back to us or
45:19
we’re going to make your life miserable
45:20
even over there but talk to me about
45:22
what transnational repression is
45:24
and is that a new has technology made
45:27
that something where it’s a new
45:28
phenomenon or is this something that’s
45:30
been around for a long time
45:31
well i think technology’s made it a lot
45:33
easier look i mean after the
45:35
the russian revolution i mean you had a
45:38
lot of white russians in europe and a
45:39
number of them got assassinated
45:41
i mean i mean soviet agents went hunting
45:44
down
45:45
you know i mean whether they be
45:46
monarchists or democrats or whatever
45:48
else
45:49
i mean and there are certainly
45:50
throughout the cold war i mean there’s a
45:52
famous case of i think it was a
45:53
bulgarian dissident
45:55
i mean i think i remember he’s in london
45:57
and was killed and he’s like you’re
45:58
using
45:59
this you know an umbrella that shot you
46:01
know poison pellets and doing this kind
46:03
of a thing yeah
46:04
that you know and there are cases where
46:06
we we were pretty certain that white
46:08
russians and others got kidnapped
46:10
almost certainly taken back to the
46:11
soviet union you know so you had a bit
46:14
of that
46:15
but of course that’s dicier stuff i mean
46:17
that’s you know i mean
46:18
you have to physically have your agents
46:20
there etcetera etcetera
46:21
right and in most of these cases the
46:24
question is whether you had hostages or
46:26
not
46:26
i mean i think in most of these cases
46:28
you know most of the family members who
46:30
didn’t make it out were probably dead so
46:32
i mean for the most part
46:33
you didn’t have you know an ability to
46:35
hold a family hostage there was no
46:37
leverage right right
46:38
that’s right that i think is what has
46:40
really changed i mean you certainly see
46:41
that with iran
46:42
and particularly with china i mean i
46:44
mean lots of cases of uyghurs where
46:46
you know i mean you get people here will
46:48
say you know my family doesn’t want to
46:50
talk to me anymore
46:52
you know my family has asked me not to
46:54
do any activism there have been cases
46:55
there was one i
46:56
yesterday there was actually a webinar
46:58
over there talking about this
47:00
a woman coming on saying you know that
47:02
she held off saying anything i mean
47:04
a sister of hers disappeared and then
47:07
her sister was sentenced to like 17
47:09
years in
47:10
prison for something and she said at
47:11
that point okay i mean i’m going to
47:13
speak out
47:14
so i think that they’re more vulnerable
47:16
now and we even have cases
47:19
where it appears of them sending people
47:21
to america or using people
47:23
already in america to kind of talk to
47:25
and to try to coerce and frighten
47:28
you know people and to me that’s one of
47:30
those things where
47:31
i mean this is where i think we need
47:33
united you know kind of cooperation that
47:35
is the u.s
47:35
europeans asian democracies i think
47:39
this is one of those areas i think
47:40
another one is like websites i mean
47:42
you know china tells united airlines on
47:44
your website in america you can’t list
47:46
taiwan
47:47
right right right look you can whatever
47:50
you want to do in china i mean i don’t
47:51
like it but
47:52
you can do it but not here and so the to
47:54
me these are areas where it makes sense
47:56
for democratic countries to come
47:58
together and say okay we’ve got a
47:59
problem here
48:00
we cannot let them do this to us
48:03
right what do we do about it and if we
48:05
all work together and to me then
48:06
suddenly you have real leverage
48:08
where all the western countries say no
48:11
if you do that
48:12
x happens whatever x is uh but i think
48:15
it has gotten worse i mean
48:16
and i think it’s the vulnerability of
48:18
fairly large expatriate populations
48:21
and the technology of following people
48:24
online
48:24
of you know checking what they’ve been
48:26
saying i mean all of these things
48:29
have made it easier than for a state
48:31
like china
48:32
to watch to get in communication with to
48:34
threaten you know those sorts of things
48:36
so i i think it’s a real problem
48:38
so one example that comes up of not just
48:41
transnational repression
48:43
of citizens in other countries but
48:45
citizens of other countries and other
48:47
countries
48:48
one is uh china basically telling a lot
48:50
of the entertainment industry
48:52
if you want to be able to uh you know
48:54
sell your movies here
48:56
not only can your movies that are here
48:58
that that we have here
48:59
not have anything negative about us you
49:01
can’t ever say anything negative about
49:03
us
49:04
anywhere or we’re not going to allow it
49:06
here which kind of what you’re talking
49:07
about they’re now
49:07
repressing here using basically the
49:09
power of the purse that leverage that
49:11
they have
49:12
uh so no it is a major problem so up
49:15
until now we’ve complained a lot
49:17
we’ve talked a lot about all the
49:18
problems that we are facing
49:20
and i’m going to complain one more time
49:21
because for anyone who said well that’s
49:22
okay
49:23
because back here in the good old us of
49:24
a we’re free
49:26
as can be yeah no not so much so uh it
49:29
turns out that
49:30
according to freedom house uh we’ve seen
49:32
a roughly 10
49:33
11 point actually just over 10 11 point
49:36
decline
49:37
uh in our level of freedom in the last
49:40
uh
49:40
10 years uh the three major factors
49:43
being increasing
49:44
political corruption and conflicts of
49:45
interest of lack of transparency in
49:47
government
49:48
uh and punitive immigration and asylum
49:50
policies and to be clear
49:52
this is not a trump problem this is not
49:54
an obama problem
49:55
this is not a republican or democrat
49:57
problem this is i call it a republicrap
49:59
problem this is a u.s government policy
50:02
uh you know neo-liberal slash
50:04
neo-conservative
50:05
uh centrist world order policy problem
50:08
uh that has led to it now
50:10
with a few minutes to go since we’ve
50:12
complained this whole time
50:13
let’s talk some solutions what are the
50:15
things that you think need to be done
50:17
and you and this can be at the
50:18
individual level the advocacy level
50:20
or even at the government level that can
50:22
be done to
50:23
work towards us being freer here in the
50:26
states and also
50:27
to work towards creating more freedom i
50:29
think we agree that you know
50:30
liberating the world through uh military
50:33
policy certainly isn’t the way
50:34
so what is the way right well i think
50:37
domestically
50:38
it requires an active citizenry who
50:40
cares i mean ultimately
50:42
we get the government that if not
50:44
necessarily what we deserve but we get
50:46
the government that in some ways we
50:48
accept or we acquiesce to
50:50
that we have to hold public i mean
50:52
public officials don’t believe they can
50:54
have
50:54
you know adult conversations with us we
50:57
are bankrupt
50:58
and we’re spending money wildly well
51:01
who’s going to pay i mean the
51:02
the we’re already over you know debt is
51:05
100 of gdp
51:06
you know by mid-century cbo says it
51:08
could be 150 or 200 percent
51:11
well you know greece was something like
51:13
140
51:14
when it blew up i mean we need to have a
51:16
conversation about
51:17
what are you willing to spend money on
51:19
and and if you want to spend you got a
51:21
tax i mean you just can’t
51:23
you know so it strikes me that we need
51:25
citizens who take the citizenship
51:26
seriously
51:28
and you know say that there you know
51:29
there’s no free lunch i mean milton
51:31
friedman had that right
51:32
and then we have to talk to public
51:34
officials and make decisions
51:36
and we can’t do it and it’s like it
51:38
ultimately comes back and people have to
51:39
there are trade-offs there’s uh
51:41
everything i mean freedom
51:43
responsibility money you know programs
51:47
you know there’s nothing free here so to
51:49
me that’s kind of the starting point for
51:51
us and we have to be willing to accept
51:52
some cost if we want freedom
51:54
we’re gonna have to pay for it i mean it
51:55
requires us to be vigilant it requires
51:57
us to
51:58
you know be willing to make certain
51:59
sacrifices to protect the system
52:01
uh you know that we have i think
52:03
internationally
52:05
i mean one thing we need to do as much
52:07
as we can is use
52:08
individuals as well as government i tell
52:11
people the best ambassadors
52:12
for america are citizens i mean the
52:15
point is mo
52:16
for the most part people around the
52:17
world like americans
52:19
and most of those people hate the us
52:21
government and
52:22
for very good reasons frankly and when
52:24
it’s off bombing people
52:25
invading killing people yeah and doing a
52:27
lot of sanctioning people starving them
52:29
to death
52:30
and the us government does a lot of
52:31
awful stuff and the chinese have pointed
52:34
this out i wrote a column for
52:35
antiwar.com
52:36
saying look let’s be very frank since
52:40
the cultural revolution that is
52:41
after the cultural revolution on the
52:43
chinese have done nothing as harmful as
52:46
the iraq war
52:47
i mean hundreds of thousands of iraqis
52:49
are dead because of u.s policy
52:51
we didn’t kill them we blew the place up
52:53
the chinese have not done anything like
52:55
that
52:55
they’ve done lots of bad stuff but you
52:57
know they didn’t blow it up they didn’t
52:59
create al qaeda and isis which our
53:01
policy
53:01
did they all this stuff we needed we
53:04
need to own this
53:05
you know we have to we so we have to
53:07
accept responsibility for our own
53:08
actions
53:09
then we have more credibility in
53:10
criticizing you know china
53:12
so i think part of it is getting people
53:14
active i mean
53:15
things like the olympics i mean the
53:16
olympic committee is not going to take
53:18
the olympics away
53:19
but we need to work with other countries
53:22
for example government should boycott
53:24
no heads of state no heads of government
53:26
should go no royalty should go
53:28
we we should suggest that athletes who
53:31
go there
53:32
they use the opportunity to protest use
53:34
the opportunity to highlight abuse and
53:36
be careful i mean you don’t want to
53:38
start you know get yourself arrested but
53:40
you can imagine you win
53:42
some event and the microphones in front
53:44
of you
53:45
i mean you can say something that we
53:47
should look for ways to use the
53:50
opportunity to embarrass
53:52
the chinese government and i do think
53:54
cooperation
53:55
i mean the problem with the trump
53:56
administration was that you know we just
53:58
order everybody to do things and they
53:59
don’t do it for good reason
54:01
we need to sit down you know with
54:03
countries again how do you deal with
54:05
pressure put on companies it’s very hard
54:08
to tell a hollywood studio
54:10
that you should you know not listen to
54:12
them and lose money
54:13
well what’s what we need to do is enter
54:16
how do you get an industry to work
54:17
together you may need an anti-trust
54:18
exemption
54:19
you know how do we work across countries
54:22
how do you know
54:23
i mean the best thing you can do to the
54:24
chinese is say all
54:26
the western airlines together have a
54:28
policy
54:30
we do our websites and you stay out of
54:32
it and if you want to kick one of us out
54:34
you kick all of us out that kind of a
54:35
thing so how do we
54:36
build to me that’s what we and that we
54:39
can help on that
54:40
we can’t make it happen but that’s
54:42
something and then i think that’s where
54:43
you want awareness of the problems
54:45
you want an active citizenry you need
54:47
and this needs to be bipartisan
54:50
it’s not blame one party both parties
54:52
have this issue
54:53
this is something all americans and good
54:55
people around the world should want to
54:56
do
54:57
how do you help chinese people and this
54:59
is you know it’s not part of to me
55:00
you don’t want it being led by the us
55:02
government on a crusade against china
55:04
you want it led by people who say
55:07
terrible things are being done to the
55:09
chinese people
55:10
we want to work with them we want to
55:12
help them and he worked together as
55:14
opposed to
55:14
this is our effort because donald
55:16
trump’s mad about trade or something
55:18
it’s not going to be easy but i do have
55:20
hopes that you know we could get people
55:22
together because
55:23
china is a serious challenge and i i say
55:25
it’s a challenge
55:26
this is not war this is not the soviet
55:29
union it’s not a cold war it’s a very
55:31
different thing
55:32
but we have to take it seriously but we
55:34
also
55:35
want you know have to take into account
55:36
it’s important to engage in all these
55:38
other things
55:39
this is you know and we need to be
55:40
careful about this but i think we can
55:42
win it and i have a lot of confidence in
55:44
america and western countries
55:45
and i think we have fundamental
55:47
strengths but we’re going to have to
55:48
work at it
55:49
and as you said it’s hard to get
55:52
anywhere
55:53
until we clean up our own house if we’re
55:56
engaging in
55:57
and i say we i mean our government if we
55:59
continue to be robbed
56:00
to pay for an imperialist government to
56:02
spread havoc around the world and create
56:04
terror groups and
56:05
engage in mass murder and targeted
56:07
killings and you know uh
56:09
you know holding people in gitmo without
56:12
trial
56:12
until they die as long as we’re doing
56:15
that
56:16
or as long as our government is doing
56:18
that then we and our government look
56:20
like hypocrites
56:21
telling anyone else that they shouldn’t
56:22
do anything which immediately
56:24
cuts and curtails our ability to be able
56:26
to affect things abroad that’s why we
56:28
have to vote libertarian you didn’t say
56:29
that i did
56:30
um but so i vote libertarian so no
56:33
worries
56:33
okay well then he said it too that’s why
56:35
you got to vote liver so number step
56:36
number one vote libertarian
56:37
so doug thank you so much for coming on
56:39
you have been a fascinating guest
56:41
and uh this has been a really
56:43
interesting discussion it’s interesting
56:44
in the way that like talking about
56:46
you know like a serial killer is
56:48
interesting it’s like a horrific
56:50
terrible thing
56:51
but it’s interesting to talk about and
56:52
it’s good for us to know that these
56:53
things are happening so we can talk
56:54
about how to
56:55
how to fight against it and combat it
56:57
before i let you go i want to give you a
56:59
chance to have the final word you can
57:00
say whatever you want to say whatever
57:01
you thought we didn’t get a chance to
57:02
talk about
57:03
uh promote any upcoming anything you’re
57:05
doing plug yourself in all of this
57:08
all of your various wares whatever you
57:10
want to say as long as you want to say
57:11
it
57:12
doug bondo the floor is yours
57:15
well obviously i’d love to have people
57:17
you know check me out on twitter
57:19
you know go to the cato institute
57:20
website it has most of what i write
57:22
has a lot of forums that i’ve been in
57:24
policy papers that i’ve written
57:26
i write regularly for antiwar.com i want
57:28
to talk that up
57:29
eric garris and the crew out there scott
57:31
horton do fabulous work it’s an effort
57:34
to try to
57:34
they really i mean it’s it’s you know to
57:36
counteract the war party counteract the
57:38
neoconservatives
57:40
you know they operate on a shoestring
57:41
but they’re hardcore they’re very
57:43
principled
57:44
american conservative is an interesting
57:46
publication it’s not libertarian it
57:48
doesn’t pretend to be but they’re very
57:49
open i write for them weekly
57:51
national interest i even write for
57:53
american spectator national review
57:54
online
57:55
you know whoever is out there i want to
57:57
get the message out i promote liberty
57:59
so i’d love to have people look for my
58:01
writings and they’ll look for
58:02
webinars and stuff but again cato
58:04
website’s probably the best
58:06
place it has a lot of other good work on
58:08
it i have a lot of very fine colleagues
58:10
people who work very hard on civil
58:12
liberties you know drug legalization on
58:14
you know how to deal with police abuse
58:17
legal reform constitutional reform as
58:20
well as foreign policy deregulation
58:22
so we’d love to have people visiting us
58:24
and hey if you have a little extra money
58:26
throw it cato’s way awesome so
58:29
doug bondo you’re on twitter is it at
58:32
doug bondo
58:33
yeah it’s like it’s like d no i mean
58:36
they put my name
58:37
in you know if they type doug bondo then
58:38
they’ll find you yeah
58:40
the beauty is as far as i could tell
58:41
when i was doing some research on you
58:42
there’s only one doug bondo
58:44
so if you type in doug bondo you’re
58:46
gonna find this specific doug bondo that
58:48
makes it a lot easier
58:49
so check them out on twitter check them
58:51
out on antiwar.com cato.org
58:54
uh national interest fortune american
58:56
conservative all the others that he was
58:57
saying
58:58
um doug again thank you so much for
59:00
coming on like doug said vote
59:01
libertarian he did say it
59:02
uh doug thank you so much for coming on
59:04
i really appreciate your time
59:05
it’s been fun thanks thank you i’m back
59:09
it’s me i’m back wasn’t that great doug
59:12
bondo is
59:13
fantastic that was a really great uh
59:15
great discussion about
59:17
transnational repression and uh
59:20
and religious persecution a couple times
59:23
it was mentioned in the comments well
59:25
you know we
59:25
also do that stuff here or maybe not as
59:28
bad but
59:29
we also are abusive to people here and
59:31
very abusive to people around the world
59:33
well
59:33
yeah we know that that’s not anything
59:36
new
59:37
uh we talk about that quite a bit uh we
59:39
don’t talk a lot about foreign policy on
59:41
this show because i think it’s more
59:42
important as we said at the end of the
59:44
interview with doug
59:46
we really need to clean up our house uh
59:48
before we go around and tell others
59:50
what they should be doing but i did
59:51
think it was important to have that
59:53
opportunity to see what is going on in
59:55
other countries
59:56
um so before i go i guess i can take a
59:58
couple of questions if any of y’all have
60:00
any questions i’ll take
60:01
maybe two or three questions and then we
60:04
will wrap things
60:05
up so uh he is i don’t know yeah
60:09
uh conor i don’t know if he’s on um
60:12
if he’s on facebook i didn’t find him on
60:15
facebook but he
60:16
is on twitter it’s uh at doug
60:19
underscore bondo um and uh
60:23
brian has it in the in the comments i’ll
60:25
put it up in the main
60:26
comment so everyone can see it but it’s
60:29
a twitter at doug
60:32
underscore bondo i’m putting up putting
60:35
that up right now that is not
60:39
it made it into a facebook link
60:44
there we go um so yeah so no that was a
60:47
really good episode
60:48
and if anyone has any questions i can
60:50
answer one or two questions
60:52
and if not then i’m gonna go eat because
60:54
i have some really
60:56
really good air fried salmon that’s
60:58
waiting for me
60:59
and i am very very excited why is this
61:02
coming up like this
61:05
ah because i wrote dave okay ignore that
61:09
last one let me put it in again
61:12
i can’t believe i put dave
61:16
yeah i’m not okay i won’t stab myself um
61:19
you’re right though this is how excited
61:21
i was last time justin when i when i got
61:23
the food and
61:23
yes it was sam and i was like ah and the
61:26
thing is
61:29
i don’t know why i brought the
61:33
the knife up to my face i’ve never done
61:36
that before
61:37
i was just very excited in that moment
61:40
um
61:41
uh so here are some questions did you
61:43
hear texas opened up fully yes
61:45
uh and i’m so i’m i’m split on this
61:48
because
61:50
it’s good that they’re open uh i also
61:52
but i don’t like the presumption that
61:54
the governor ever had the authority to
61:56
do such a thing in the first place
61:58
uh so that i’m kind of torn on that it’s
61:59
like yay the governor is allowing us to
62:01
go outside again
62:02
it really should have ended with that
62:04
authority not being recognized
62:06
uh either by the courts or in some
62:08
manner
62:09
or even just the people refusing to obey
62:12
it uh
62:13
that would have been preferred to
62:14
because now the governor and future
62:16
governors of texas and other states that
62:18
are that are are pulling back on these
62:20
restrictions
62:21
they’re basically saying yeah we can do
62:23
this again if we want to
62:24
and that’s not good uh bill robishaw
62:27
says have you been reading scott
62:29
horton’s new book i have not yet but we
62:31
are working on getting scott on the show
62:33
um i i really want to get scott’s
62:36
perspective on on what’s going on with
62:37
the uyghurs
62:38
um because uh he is very upset about the
62:41
the way that it’s being talked about
62:42
in uh western but especially american
62:45
media
62:46
um let’s see uh
62:51
chris nelson says i dislike the ccp but
62:53
i’m not sure playing nice with them is
62:55
effective how to be hard on them without
62:57
advocating war
62:58
it’s not an issue of being hard or not
63:00
hard on them and the reality is we’re
63:01
not
63:02
playing nice we’re in a trade war with
63:04
them
63:05
uh our previous and now current cia
63:08
directors
63:09
are all but declaring war in the in
63:12
terms of the way that they talk about
63:13
the ccp and again
63:15
as doug said we don’t like communist we
63:18
don’t like the ccp and we don’t like the
63:20
chinese government
63:21
but when you attack a country so for
63:24
example
63:25
if a foreign government head
63:28
or the or head of their intelligence
63:30
agency or head of their military
63:32
attack the us government attack the us
63:35
and say the americans are doing this we
63:38
naturally come together and say hey
63:39
screw you pal we’re americans we do
63:41
even like when we get criticized by
63:43
europe right
63:45
they’re talking about legitimate things
63:46
about our government but if they’re
63:48
phrasing it well you know the americans
63:49
blah blah blah blah
63:51
and then we hear oh you know europeans
63:52
are saying bad things about americans
63:54
and we naturally come together and go
63:56
hey screw you pal that’s what’s
63:57
happening in china
63:58
when we’re saying all this stuff about
64:00
you know we’re against the chinese doing
64:02
this and doing that
64:03
when it’s coming from the government it
64:05
comes off as oh they’re saying this
64:07
about all chinese people
64:08
so that’s not helping the trade wars
64:10
aren’t helping
64:11
we’ve talked a lot about trade wars on
64:14
this program
64:15
the reality is that when your government
64:19
issues tariffs and fees and regulations
64:22
on trade
64:23
they’re taxing you your government is
64:26
taxing and punishing you for trying to
64:28
get
64:28
the most affordable product that you can
64:30
and not only are they taxing you
64:32
but it doesn’t work if you are for
64:34
example and i’ve used this example many
64:35
times
64:36
if you own a company that makes
64:39
large durable goods like so let’s say
64:42
like air conditioners or refrigerators
64:44
and you rely on raw materials and
64:48
uh partial materials like semiconductors
64:50
and things like that
64:51
that go into your machine that are made
64:53
in other countries like china and mexico
64:55
and things like that
64:56
that’s how you’re able to affordably
64:58
make it here now if suddenly there’s
64:59
tariffs on it
65:01
now you can’t sell it for the same price
65:04
as your foreign competitors
65:06
now you have to pay more because you’re
65:08
a us-based business
65:09
that leaves you with two options you can
65:11
either jack up the price which makes you
65:12
less competitive
65:13
you can knock down your profit which
65:16
hurts your
65:17
your company and your shareholders uh
65:19
and you are probably operating on razor
65:20
thin margins to begin with
65:22
you can start laying off people and
65:23
automating but a that’s not really going
65:25
to help in the short term
65:27
and b now you’re creating fewer jobs and
65:29
leading to more joblessness
65:30
or you just move overseas where you’re
65:32
not subjected to those tariffs anymore
65:35
tariffs and trade wars make things worse
65:38
for us and yes they engage in it too
65:42
and it makes it worse for them uh the
65:45
original world wars that happened post
65:48
great depression
65:49
happened largely because of a global
65:51
depression that started
65:53
with among other things the sm
65:55
smoot-hawley tariff act
65:57
which led to global trade wars starting
65:59
in the u.s and in europe and going
66:01
around the world
66:02
when countries aren’t trading goods and
66:04
services they typically start trading
66:05
bombs and missiles
66:07
so it’s it’s this is an issue of
66:10
the best way to do this is to first of
66:12
all clean up our own house
66:14
it’s hard for us to criticize another
66:16
country’s government for being
66:18
repressive
66:18
when our government is engaged in an
66:20
imperial endless war campaign around the
66:22
world
66:23
creating terror groups funding drug
66:25
cartels
66:26
doing some of the most disgusting things
66:28
around the world and then saying
66:29
yeah it’s bad what you’re doing in your
66:31
country too yeah we sound like massive
66:33
hypocrites or at least our government
66:34
sounds like hypocrites so number one
66:35
clean up our government’s act so we
66:38
actually can come from a position of
66:39
actually
66:40
not sounding like massive hypocrites and
66:41
ignoring the the planks in our own eyes
66:44
when we’re trying to remove the specs
66:45
from others and then from there
66:47
we can actually start being a force for
66:50
freedom but we have to actually be
66:52
a force for freedom we just can’t stamp
66:54
freedom on the side of a cruise missile
66:56
and go look we’re for freedom no
66:57
it’s just as stupid as trying to stamp
66:59
you know people have been joking about
67:01
now that biden’s in office they’re gonna
67:02
stamp
67:03
you know trans rights flags and black
67:05
lives matter on the side of a missile
67:06
and that’ll make it okay
67:07
no it doesn’t but slapping freedom and
67:10
and patriotism on the side of it doesn’t
67:12
make it okay too
67:13
uh make it okay either so you know end
67:16
those things
67:17
and be an actual force for good around
67:19
the world and a force for freedom
67:21
now we can actually start talking um
67:24
let’s see
67:29
um let’s see did you hear that while the
67:31
news suggested that legislators were
67:33
going to take away
67:34
como’s dictator powers in new york the
67:35
democrats actually just extended them
67:37
and had cuomo in on the discussion that
67:40
doesn’t surprise me at all honestly i
67:41
haven’t been following it
67:43
but the um cuomo is in a really bad
67:46
place
67:46
and interestingly enough it might be his
67:49
aggressive behavior to
67:51
women which is terrible that will end up
67:54
getting him removed not
67:55
the fact that he put coven patients in
67:57
nursing homes
67:58
and led to what 13 14
68:02
000 that we know of dying as a result of
68:04
his bad policy and then
68:05
lying about it to state and federal
68:07
investigators
68:08
no it’s going to be that he was touchy
68:10
with women which again
68:12
terrible thing the things he has said to
68:14
women and
68:15
just being a creepy you’re like in your
68:17
50s and you’re being creepy with women
68:19
that could easily be your daughter’s age
68:22
a couple of them even your
68:23
granddaughter’s age and
68:25
i mean it’s really disgusting and creepy
68:28
but she also killed a bunch of people
68:29
and then lied about it so on the scale
68:31
of things
68:32
um so he’s got a fight in in for it for
68:34
him i’m not sure how it’s gonna
68:36
lead to um
68:39
alexandra alexander robinson
68:42
i don’t know if it’s alexandra or
68:44
alexander but
68:46
alex says i would argue that cover 19 is
68:48
because of the ccp shouldn’t they be
68:50
punished for lying and covering up what
68:51
was supposed to be a local
68:52
pandemic into a global pandemic for that
68:54
matter we don’t know that it wasn’t
68:56
accidentally leaked from a lab
68:57
they actually didn’t uh negotiated with
69:00
the world health organization for
69:02
nearly a year before they let them in
69:03
and the world health organization
69:05
immediately upon entering said we’re not
69:07
even going to investigate that
69:08
uh because it’s not likely okay well why
69:11
wouldn’t you still
69:12
investigate the possibility of it sounds
69:14
to me like that was a condition of them
69:16
even being allowed in
69:17
now it could have very well been
69:19
naturally zoonotic occurrence as a
69:21
result of the
69:22
uh wet markets where the different
69:24
animals are all in together or whatever
69:25
we really don’t know
69:26
in terms of punishing them how
69:31
you can boycott them but i
69:35
you know sanctions hurt you and as a
69:38
consumer
69:39
and they hurt everyday chinese people
69:41
they don’t really hurt the government in
69:42
fact they help the government
69:44
to rally everyone around them and say
69:46
look at how what they’re doing to us
69:48
it hasn’t worked in cuba it didn’t work
69:50
in iraq
69:51
it doesn’t work when it’s used the only
69:53
thing it does is successfully cut ties
69:55
between countries
69:56
which makes it that much easier for them
69:57
to lead us to de-personalize each other
70:00
which makes it more likely for us to end
70:01
up at war with each other and i
70:03
guarantee you you do not want war with
70:04
china
70:06
you do not want war with china that’s
70:08
not one that stays over there
70:10
that china is not uh iraq after years of
70:13
no-fly zones
70:14
china is not afghanistan uh after years
70:17
of
70:18
being ravaged by the taliban china is a
70:20
uh
70:21
is a first world military that rivals
70:24
ours
70:24
that that would not stay there by any
70:26
stretch of the imagination you don’t
70:28
want that
70:29
um uh hannah golem golematis
70:33
glemmatus i i’m sorry hannah says i feel
70:36
like we’re encouraging slave labor in
70:38
other countries because it’s cheaper
70:39
well it’s it’s actually because it’s
70:40
more expensive here
70:41
and that’s because of all of the various
70:43
regulations and fees and taxes that have
70:45
been put on american labor
70:47
in order for large businesses to stifle
70:49
their smaller competition
70:51
because they always knew they could just
70:52
move their base of operations overseas
70:54
and leave the the the wells so poisoned
70:57
here
70:58
that it’s unaffordable to do business
70:59
here and compete with them so you get
71:01
rid of those regulations not only does
71:02
that help things here but it also helps
71:04
things overseas
71:05
it helps that’s actually a great way to
71:07
punish china is simply
71:08
deregulate the market here so that more
71:11
jobs come back
71:12
and and grow uh here and uh it’s cheaper
71:15
to make things here it becomes more
71:16
affordable to do business here
71:17
more affordable to hire people here more
71:19
affordable to make things here
71:21
that helps with the problem with with
71:22
china because they’re not as rich with
71:24
you know with our with our money uh from
71:26
them being more affordable than us
71:28
um it also helps with jobs here it helps
71:31
with the economy here helps with the
71:33
environment because
71:34
we have more products being made here uh
71:36
instead of being made on the other side
71:37
of the planet and shipped over here so
71:39
that
71:39
that reduces the amount of pollution and
71:41
the carbon footprint and all that stuff
71:43
so
71:43
um yeah so that’s actually a great way
71:46
to
71:47
to help let’s see what else is here uh
71:50
cuomo said he definitely wasn’t going to
71:52
resign i don’t think he was going to
71:53
resign
71:54
um
71:57
uh yeah i’m full
72:01
alexander i hope i’m saying your name
72:02
right i’m fully behind
72:04
uh not paying them back uh the uh the
72:08
whatever debt can be uh attribute
72:10
whatever whatever treasury bonds can be
72:12
traced to being owned by chinese owned
72:14
banks
72:14
just don’t pay it back that’s fine uh
72:16
and and for that matter we could also
72:18
write off
72:18
because there’s a certain amount of i
72:20
think it’s just under a trillion
72:22
dollars that that chinese government
72:24
technically owes
72:25
the us government uh from during lend
72:28
lease during
72:28
uh i believe during world war ii and uh
72:31
but the chinese government doesn’t
72:32
recognize that
72:33
debt because it was run up by the chiang
72:35
kai-shek government
72:37
um so yeah
72:41
just write that amount off of what we
72:43
owe them as well but yeah i know we
72:45
could just not pay him back
72:46
um let’s see
72:53
uh what do you think about biden
72:54
stopping oil fracking
72:56
uh i’m not aware that he stopped it
72:59
completely i think he had stopped
73:02
leases on oil fracking on
73:05
new new leases on oil fracking
73:09
here’s what i think about oil fracking
73:11
to be perfectly honest
73:14
the reason that we are still using
73:15
fossil fuels as heavily as we are is
73:17
because
73:18
there is a renewable and or not
73:21
renewable but
73:22
highly plentiful incred it is the
73:25
cheapest
73:26
it is the most carbon neutral it is the
73:28
most effective
73:29
it is the most steady and it is the
73:31
safest form of energy
73:33
and it’s called nuclear and the reason
73:35
that we don’t have more new
73:37
nuclear power plants is because federal
73:39
regulations and even some state
73:40
regulations have made it entirely cost
73:43
prohibitive
73:44
to build any new nuclear plants for like
73:46
the past like at least 30 something
73:47
years
73:48
if they had more nuclear if they were
73:50
allowed to have more nuclear
73:52
uh and and you don’t have to have a
73:54
government program you don’t have to
73:55
subsidize it
73:56
just get rid of the regulations put them
73:58
on even footing with everyone else
74:00
and the subsidization of fossil fuels
74:02
and the subsidization of renewables
74:04
and just deregulate uh nuclear to the
74:08
same level as every other type of energy
74:10
and you will see many new nuclear plants
74:12
including new and more uh
74:14
efficient and safer plants like thorium
74:16
salt reactors
74:17
uh there are so many really exciting
74:19
things in the in the field of nuclear
74:20
that uh are safer that have a much uh
74:23
shorter
74:25
radioactive half-life than the than the
74:27
old forms did
74:28
that are just better all the way around
74:30
they’re smaller so you can have them in
74:31
more
74:32
areas uh it’s easier to clean up after
74:35
them you can have
74:36
them in a spot actually the the waste
74:38
portion is portable
74:40
can be removed off-site very safely so
74:42
it doesn’t even leave any you know any
74:44
uh
74:44
radiation in that area in the
74:46
groundwater you can actually switch out
74:47
cores so you can perpetually have
74:49
nuclear energy
74:50
uh you would see the cost of energy in
74:52
general go down to a fraction of what
74:54
they are now
74:55
you would see things like electric cars
74:57
completely take over
74:58
the car industry because it would be
75:01
exponentially more affordable
75:02
to have an electric car than a gas car
75:05
so all this stuff about
75:06
increased regulations that drive up the
75:08
cost of things this is the opposite way
75:11
to go
75:11
when you deregulate and you allow the
75:13
market to innovate by getting off their
75:16
damn backs
75:17
and letting them do what they do then
75:19
you end up with far better solutions
75:20
like
75:21
nuclear and that allows having
75:24
much more more plentiful safer and
75:26
cheaper energy
75:28
allows for the next generation of energy
75:30
to come out like
75:31
fusion like these things we’re seeing um
75:34
uh
75:34
solar panels that will be up in the in
75:37
the atmosphere
75:38
or or in orbit where they’re outside of
75:41
the atmosphere where they can collect
75:42
exponentially more power
75:44
and beam it to certain remote locations
75:46
all of these things become
75:47
better and cheaper and more easily
75:49
attainable when the source of energy
75:51
that is needed for all that research and
75:53
production
75:54
and and development and everything that
75:56
has to go into it is exponentially
75:58
cheaper
75:58
nuclear allows that to happen and all we
76:00
have to do is get the government off the
76:02
markets back
76:03
um take one more question then we’ll
76:05
close out
76:06
um
76:13
here we go um uh what about china’s debt
76:17
uh brian asked what about china’s debt
76:19
trap diplomacy
76:20
that they have been using on poorer
76:21
african and south asian countries
76:23
loaning them large sums of money for
76:25
crap infrastructure projects
76:26
and then leveraging that debt against
76:28
them when they can’t pay to take ports
76:30
and land
76:31
is there a way we can diplomatically or
76:32
strategically counter this
76:34
to protect poor nations without any
76:36
aggressive responses that the number one
76:38
thing we could be doing brian is
76:40
if we got the right now when you want to
76:43
do
76:44
any kind of diplomacy or any kind of
76:47
anything related to uh diplomatic types
76:50
of commerce
76:52
in foreign country there are actually
76:53
regulations against that you have to
76:55
actually go through the state department
76:57
and you know put together a white paper
76:59
and get approval for them to do it
77:00
because it’s considered diplomatic
77:02
and you have to make sure you’re not
77:04
going you’re not stepping on the feet of
77:05
the us government’s foreign policy
77:08
if we simply let them do this a lot of
77:10
these projects are garbage
77:12
but no one’s really engaging these
77:14
developing economies
77:16
in in a in a robust way so china comes
77:19
in and says hey here’s a boondoggle plan
77:21
it’s going to make you billions of
77:22
dollars
77:23
just sign here on the dotted line these
77:25
countries that don’t have experience
77:26
with this go
77:27
okay fine they sign up they don’t have
77:29
any other alternative
77:30
again deregulate allow businesses and
77:34
nonprofits and
77:35
ngos and organizations here to be able
77:38
to engage in this kind of diplomatic
77:40
uh market opening commerce in other
77:42
countries without having to get state
77:44
department and usaid approval
77:46
uh and you will see a blossoming trade
77:48
in these developing countries they have
77:50
the money
77:50
they have money they have increasing
77:52
amounts of money they have uh um
77:54
emerging economies and they’re like you
77:57
said they’re getting sucked up in these
77:58
garbage programs
77:59
um and then they’re and then they’re
78:01
being leveraged with a bunch of debt
78:03
that they have to pay off
78:04
so give them a better alternative
78:08
give them a better alternative they’re
78:09
just looking for something to do
78:10
honestly
78:11
um there we go
78:15
did the jewish space laser do this yeah
78:17
no i it’s
78:20
i clearly can’t be trust around steak
78:22
knives
78:25
38 years of eating i’ve never stabbed
78:27
myself i don’t
78:29
anyway uh so folks
78:33
i guess we’ll we’ll end up on what we’ll
78:35
end on space laser sure let’s do that
78:37
folks thanks so much again for tuning in
78:39
to this episode of my fellow americans i
78:41
hope you enjoyed it
78:42
this format was kind of cool i got to
78:44
like you know
78:45
i already had it pre-recorded so i was
78:47
able to just do that and hang out with
78:49
you all in the comments that was kind of
78:50
cool
78:50
um so uh thank you thanks again so much
78:53
for tuning in
78:54
uh join me next week uh at
78:57
on tuesday for the next episode of the
79:00
muddy waters of freedom
79:01
where matt wright and i parse through
79:03
the week’s events like the
79:05
uh sweet little 20 20 wonder boys that
79:07
we are
79:08
and we will talk about all the stuff
79:10
that happened uh
79:11
since the previous time that we got
79:12
together then come right back here
79:14
on wednesday same spike place
79:18
same spike time for the next episode of
79:20
my fellow americans
79:22
i will have on josh eagle and justin
79:24
cornett
79:25
they have a new organization called for
79:27
all tennessee
79:28
they are doing some incredible stuff in
79:30
the state of tennessee um
79:31
incredible legislative accomplishments
79:34
incredible legislative goals
79:36
and as they’re working on it we’ll
79:38
eventually hopefully be able to expand
79:39
it across the country
79:40
but they’re doing great work in
79:41
tennessee already what kind of great
79:43
work
79:43
tune in next week and you’ll find out
79:45
but folks thanks again so much for
79:47
tuning in
79:48
i will talk to you very very soon and
79:51
i was going to say the thing that i say
79:53
on
79:55
muddy waters of freedom i don’t say that
79:56
on this instead what do i say on this
79:59
gosh
79:59
oh i say hey folks thanks again so much
80:01
for tuning in i’m spike cohen and you
80:05
are the power thanks for tuning in guys
80:06
god bless
80:22
[Music]
80:30
um
80:33
[Music]
80:44
so
80:51
[Music]
80:53
[Applause]
80:56
i can’t make a change
81:06
[Music]
81:12
it might fit we might just unite
81:15
and come together become hybrid at the
81:18
least slightly like-minded
81:20
indeed the life i’ve lived brings light
81:22
to kindness
81:24
all you need is a sign put a cease to
81:26
the crimes put an ease to the minds like
81:29
mine
81:30
sometimes darkness is all i find you
81:32
know what they say about an eye for a
81:34
night in a time where the blob is the
81:35
blood who am i to deny with cry when a
81:37
loved one dies i recognize that body
81:39
outside with a hoes in the body that was
81:54
open
82:10
[Music]
82:17
tell me why
82:29
[Music]
82:34
make the day
82:38
[Music]
82:54
[Music]
83:04
so
83:09
[Music]
83:17
you