(((My Fellow Americans))) #90: Travis Wentworth PhD

(((My Fellow Americans)))


About This Episode

Everyone is talking about cryptocurrency and the blockchain, and it may leave you with many questions:

– How will it impact society long-term?
– What are the security and privacy implications?
– What are its limitations?
– What even is it?

Travis Wentworth is an expert in the blockchain and cybersecurity, he’s Spike’s guest tonight, and he’s going to answer all of these questions and more!

Spike Twitter

Spike Facebook

Libertarian Party Waffle House Caucus

Chris Reynolds, Attorney at Law

Intro & Outro Music by JoDavi.


Episode Transcript

DISCLOSURE
This episode transcript is auto-generated and a provided as a service to the hearing impaired. We apologize for any errors or inaccuracies.
FULL TRANSCRIPT TEXT
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i’ll be
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buried in my grave
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before
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way back in the
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change
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before i
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that is
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but it seems like since
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we have sorely changed
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oh
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and now i’m from beautiful myrtle beach
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south carolina you’re watching my
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fellow americans with your host
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spike yes
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yes it’s me it’s me
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thank you so much for joining us keep
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clapping
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clap for the bitcoin miracle
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if you didn’t keep clapping welcome to
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my fellow americans i
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am literally spike cohen thank you so
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much for tuning in
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uh for this amazing episode on this
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you so much for tuning in we have a
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i’m actually parched i needed that i’m
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going to be drinking a lot of this
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tonight
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shout out to taran turks and mom and him
09:35
as always folks before i begin the show
09:37
i’d like to address uh the fact that um
09:40
the most successful uh broadcaster
09:44
in um or successful host
09:47
in the world of talk radio passed away
09:50
today rush limbaugh
09:52
um rush is someone that i used to
09:54
actually listen to many many many years
09:56
ago back when i was a conservative
09:58
um and as i said he was the most
10:00
successful
10:01
in terms of his longevity how long his
10:04
show went on
10:04
how many how much how successful his
10:07
ratings were
10:08
and sustained uh and the fact that he
10:10
would do a daily
10:11
three hour long program uh often without
10:14
any
10:15
more often than not without any guess
10:16
which i can’t even
10:18
imagine talking for three hours a day
10:20
for actually i
10:21
probably do do that but i he did that
10:23
live on the radio
10:25
uh five days a week for uh longer than a
10:28
lot of the people watching this have
10:29
been alive
10:30
there are many many things i do not
10:31
agree with rush limbaugh on
10:33
um and there are many things that i
10:35
disagreed with uh
10:37
vehemently with him on uh and and there
10:39
are plenty of times
10:40
that we can talk about that uh but one
10:43
thing i do want to say is that rush
10:44
limbaugh was the major influence
10:47
on matt wright the man who uh co-founded
10:50
and
10:50
is the co-owner of muddy waters media so
10:53
there is
10:54
it could easily be said that muddy
10:55
waters media would not exist today
10:57
were it not for rush limbaugh and uh if
11:00
for no other reason then i i choose to
11:03
bring him up and of course i’m sure that
11:05
he is uh very much missed by his loved
11:07
ones and i
11:08
hope that he rests in peace and i pray
11:10
that his memory is a great blessing to
11:12
everyone whose lives that he touched so
11:15
uh with that said
11:16
my guest tonight is an expert on cyber
11:19
security
11:20
cryptocurrency in the blockchain he is a
11:22
co-owner and an instructor at
11:24
intelligence quest where he provides a
11:26
variety of clientele
11:28
with training on network infrastructure
11:30
and security his background is in
11:31
acquisition
11:32
and analysis of public and proprietary
11:34
data he has published
11:36
peer-reviewed articles in computer
11:38
modeling
11:39
catalysis programming network
11:42
data acquisition and security and he is
11:44
now going to explain
11:46
what all of that means because i cannot
11:48
ladies and gentlemen
11:49
my fellow americans please welcome to
11:51
the show mr travis
11:53
wentworth travis thanks so much for
11:54
coming on man thank you so much thanks
11:57
for the amazing intro i appreciate it
11:59
absolutely listen i i’m excited to have
12:01
you on when i was putting together my
12:03
questions for you
12:04
a sense of calm came over me because
12:07
i know just enough about the subjects
12:09
that we’re about to talk about
12:10
to talk fairly intelligently about them
12:14
for somewhere between three to five
12:15
minutes um and so basically
12:18
this whole episode i’m just gonna say
12:19
words to you and then say
12:21
tell me what this means so so thank you
12:23
for that
12:26
what is this one of those uh puzzles
12:27
where you just fill the words in and we
12:29
just we just go from there
12:30
it’s like mad libs except in reverse i
12:32
say the word and then you have to
12:34
explain what it means
12:35
um so thank you for that thank you for
12:37
coming on and folks be sure to comment
12:38
with your thoughts and questions we are
12:40
live and travis and i will tell you
12:43
if you are right or wrong you’re you
12:45
might be wrong because
12:46
this is going to be we’re talking about
12:47
a lot of stuff here you might be right i
12:49
don’t know who knows
12:50
um but before we get started what even i
12:52
i always ask my guests when i when you
12:54
know they come on and they’re they’re so
12:56
you know
12:56
in-depth and experts on their various
12:58
respective fields what got you into this
13:00
like why are you in the technological
13:02
field
13:02
what what what inspired you to get into
13:04
that yeah so i’ve always been kind of an
13:06
engineering type first and foremost
13:08
and i think so my phd is actually in
13:11
chemical engineering
13:12
and so we were doing um modeling of
13:15
catalytic systems and so catalysis
13:17
is what my phd was in heterogeneous
13:19
catalysis
13:20
and um so just so just to
13:23
i of course know what catalysis is
13:25
because
13:26
come on but for those who may not know
13:29
what that what exactly is that
13:30
it’s uh it’s how you make chemical
13:32
reactions go right so
13:34
they’re hard it’s hard to make these
13:35
reactions go and so what you do is you
13:37
use a catalyst
13:38
you use something to drive the reactions
13:40
forward right and
13:41
a really great example that is your car
13:43
right your catalytic converter in your
13:44
car
13:45
that is a heterogeneous catalyst it’s a
13:47
solid catalyst
13:48
that works to drive gas phase reactions
13:51
and that’s exactly what i was working on
13:52
i was actually looking at
13:53
reducing emissions in diesel cars we
13:56
were looking at modeling those
13:57
infrastructures
13:57
okay and yeah and we were building
14:00
systems to like to
14:01
do the actual physical reactions it’s
14:02
pretty cool cool
14:04
and so obviously the next step to that
14:06
would be
14:08
cyber security what what got what you
14:11
know that’s what started you was in
14:12
chemical engineering what got you into
14:14
like
14:15
you know computer modeling and
14:17
networking and cyber security and that
14:18
and blockchain and that kind of stuff
14:20
yeah so when you’re like a technologist
14:22
right most of the time you’re kind of
14:23
interested in a lot of stuff and so at
14:25
that time i was actually doing a lot of
14:26
computer networking
14:27
um so i’ve held like some computer
14:29
networking certifications all the way
14:30
back to like 2008
14:32
i was kind of doing computer networking
14:33
um computer modeling
14:35
some physical reactions and kind of all
14:37
of it at once right
14:39
and so i was looking to come back from
14:42
sweden i was doing a postdoctoral
14:43
research fellowship in sweden
14:45
in uh okay in reactions chemical
14:47
engineering and that type of stuff
14:49
and uh when i came back i had the
14:50
opportunity to go to jump straight into
14:52
computer networking and cyber security a
14:54
space i had been in for years and years
14:56
uh kind of half in one half in the other
14:59
and so
14:59
uh in 2017 i came back
15:03
stateside and started doing cyber
15:06
security and network infrastructure
15:07
training and consulting full-time
15:09
and so the last piece is okay well then
15:11
how does that relate to
15:13
cryptocurrency blockchain these
15:14
technologies right right right
15:16
and it turns out the fundamentals of
15:19
bitcoin are actually based on
15:20
traditional cybersecurity principles
15:23
okay okay so that’s what got you into
15:25
that now
15:26
starting off with our questions here
15:30
we’re going to have many guests who you
15:33
know we get we hear a lot about
15:34
blockchain and cryptocurrency
15:36
and it’s probably best in in best
15:39
service to
15:40
my viewers to ask what i’m sure half of
15:42
them are wondering
15:43
but often may be scared to ask which is
15:46
this
15:47
what even is blockchain and
15:48
cryptocurrency can you give us like a
15:50
real before we get into the details can
15:51
you give us like a real basic primer on
15:53
what that even is
15:54
yeah so the most important thing about
15:57
blockchain right about
15:58
uh blockchains is that they’re ledgers
16:01
right they’re ledgers of transactions in
16:03
the case of bitcoin
16:04
right right so it’s literally just a a
16:06
ledger of transactions uh one
16:08
piece of value one bitcoin was
16:10
transferred from this wallet
16:12
to that wallet from this wallet to that
16:15
wallet
16:15
and it’s a ledger of transactions and
16:17
then you might say well
16:18
why how does that have value right why
16:20
why are we talking about it then
16:22
and so actually your entire life is
16:25
transactional
16:26
right here your transaction value from
16:28
yourself to a merchant
16:29
that merchant is transacting value from
16:31
a merchant to a supplier
16:33
that supplier is is transacting and
16:36
sending that value
16:37
to their employees right everything in
16:39
our society is transactional
16:41
and so as of right now right most of
16:43
that value transaction
16:45
is verified by entities banks
16:48
and central governments and swift and
16:51
ach and these networks of banks and
16:53
credit companies
16:54
right right and so the value in
16:57
blockchain at least
16:58
in the bitcoin discussion right is that
17:01
we don’t have to trust
17:02
that infrastructure to hold that ledger
17:04
for us anymore
17:05
right and so now we can we can take and
17:08
have this
17:08
distributed ledger this decentralized
17:11
ledger that we all agree on
17:12
right and so there’s a bunch of
17:14
cryptographic principles that allow us
17:16
to do this
17:17
but the blockchain is this decentralized
17:19
ledger
17:20
that allows us all to agree like yep
17:22
everybody
17:23
transacted on this ledger and i sent
17:25
spike some money and
17:27
spike sent me some bitcoin and we all
17:28
agree that it happened and we could we
17:30
can get into a little bit more depth
17:31
about it but that’s the that’s the
17:33
the real value prop is that this is
17:36
value transfer without you know some
17:38
centralized entity having to verify
17:40
every single thing
17:42
and so this is what they talk about when
17:44
they say it’s a trustless system
17:46
because you’re not having to trust the
17:48
person you’re transacting with
17:49
you don’t have to trust some centralized
17:51
system that is telling you no no we got
17:53
it all taken care of don’t worry about
17:54
it like you said like hch
17:56
and other bank-driven centralized
17:58
systems
17:59
you don’t have to trust anyone there is
18:00
you can trust the fact that there is a
18:02
a decentralized ledger that literally
18:05
everyone
18:06
can look at in fact you can actually
18:07
download the ledger and you can actually
18:10
see and look at with precision every
18:13
single transaction
18:14
that’s happening which is why when
18:15
people will say well can it be hacked
18:17
it really can’t because there’s it’s
18:20
simultaneously
18:21
all in one and individually owned by
18:25
everyone involved every single person
18:27
you would have to try to hack every
18:29
single person on earth’s version of the
18:32
the ledger in real time uh in before
18:34
anyone could catch that it was happening
18:36
so no way it really
18:37
to that extent can’t be hacked or if it
18:40
could it would require
18:41
so much energy and so much literal
18:43
actual power
18:44
uh processing power to even attempt to
18:46
do in any real way
18:48
that it would long you know it would
18:50
stop
18:51
to be able to to illegitimately buy a
18:54
chaise
18:55
lounge on overstock you would have to
18:57
spend
18:58
hundreds of billions of dollars in
19:00
resources it wouldn’t happen like it
19:02
just
19:02
you can’t it’s impossible to do so you
19:05
know unfortunately um
19:06
as we were talking um as you know
19:10
uh bitcoin just crashed to uh fifty two
19:13
thousand three hundred and twenty two
19:14
dollars
19:15
uh uh us dollar uh bitcoin is now dead
19:19
um why were we so wrong what were we so
19:22
why how are we how were we
19:23
so wrong about bitcoin unbelievable
19:27
right so the question
19:28
so you’re talking about the value
19:30
appreciation right
19:31
right how are we how were so many people
19:33
so wrong about the appreciation of the
19:35
asset as well right
19:36
how could we have been so wrong people
19:37
like buffett and stuff yeah yeah
19:40
well i mean he’s he’s right it’s dead
19:41
look look at it like i mean
19:43
it’s over like the the the coin i mean
19:46
all those gold balls
19:47
right it was worth 52 375 earlier in the
19:51
day and now
19:52
i mean it’s done give me my dollars back
19:57
give me my 50 back bitcoin
20:00
so no okay so let’s let i had to bring
20:02
that up because it’s
20:03
i’m flexing a little bit um so
20:07
we hear a lot about well let’s talk
20:09
about crypto because i mean
20:12
one thing that we we often hear is well
20:14
why bitcoin
20:16
and why ethereum or you know why these
20:18
these couple of of
20:20
some of the main players why not some
20:22
other one that might be faster or
20:23
cheaper to use or whatever
20:25
let’s talk about that a little bit coin
20:27
is not the most technologically advanced
20:29
of all of all the different
20:31
cryptocurrencies by a by a
20:33
long shot like i mean there are some
20:34
major structural uh deficits there
20:37
which can be addressed but they haven’t
20:38
yet um and some argue that they don’t
20:41
have to be yet but regardless there are
20:43
ones that are
20:44
more you know efficient and cheaper to
20:46
use and so forth
20:47
why obviously bitcoin was the first one
20:50
to come out and was the only one for for
20:51
at least a few years but that was
20:53
long ago in in in the time of of
20:55
cryptocurrency that was relatively early
20:57
on
20:57
why is bitcoin the
21:00
undisputed king of of crypto what what
21:03
what
21:04
why is that yeah so you hit on something
21:06
earlier which was the adoption
21:08
level right so the first thing is when
21:10
you have so many nodes so many computers
21:13
so many people
21:14
invested in the infrastructure that
21:16
makes it more secure
21:17
right and so one of the best uh quotes
21:19
i’ve ever heard i think it was from
21:21
pompliano uh
21:22
anthony pompliano but he said you know
21:23
what you’re really investing in or what
21:25
you’re really banking on with bitcoin is
21:27
that it’s the most secure
21:28
computer network on the planet he
21:30
touched on that as well right security
21:32
and so the value prop let’s say a
21:34
bitcoin
21:35
which is you know not the most
21:37
technologically advanced of the
21:39
blockchains
21:39
it’s not a smart contract infrastructure
21:41
it doesn’t do these other things right
21:43
the transactions per second
21:45
are slow right so we kind of hit on the
21:47
bad things let’s talk about the good
21:48
stuff right
21:48
yeah um so the the value prop is that it
21:51
is the most secure computer network on
21:53
the planet right
21:54
the idea that you know other things have
21:57
value and that store value like
21:59
gold and we we touched on this in the
22:00
end in in our
22:02
pre-show right was the the the
22:04
difference between let’s say
22:06
gold and bitcoin as a store of value
22:08
right why is this
22:09
why is it such a valuable technology
22:11
versus some of these other things right
22:13
and so bitcoin is
22:16
is inherently more secure than all of
22:19
these other things
22:20
right and so what bitcoin does well it
22:23
does better than anybody
22:24
and so that’s the real value prop in my
22:26
opinion right is ethereum
22:28
cardano tazos these are all other block
22:31
chains
22:32
right and so that’s actually different
22:33
than some of these coins and we’ll we’ll
22:35
probably get into it
22:36
other things like i don’t know celsius
22:38
or chain link or whatever right those
22:39
are those are right
22:40
uh tokens right which is different from
22:43
coins which are blockchains
22:45
right yeah i i actually do want i do
22:47
want to get into that briefly at the end
22:48
but go ahead
22:49
yeah so but the blockchains themselves
22:51
so you’d say so why don’t we use
22:53
something like
22:54
cardano that has higher transactions per
22:55
second lower network fees than
22:57
ethereum and bitcoin right well bitcoin
22:59
has won the largest network effect
23:01
and in technology we know that network
23:03
effect is easily the most important
23:05
thing
23:06
just ask facebook twitter instagram
23:08
right
23:09
network effect wins uh you know a 99
23:13
times out of 100 right
23:14
and so it has one the network to support
23:16
it and two
23:17
it does the one thing well that it needs
23:19
to do well
23:20
right which is store value and be secure
23:24
that’s the only thing that it does right
23:26
is there is no way
23:27
for you to trans transfer one bitcoin
23:30
from one wallet to another wallet
23:32
without it being verified and signed by
23:34
your private key which is kind of the
23:36
cryptographic solution that we use to do
23:38
this there is no way for you to double
23:40
spend that bitcoin
23:41
which is the second big problem right
23:44
and so if we can verify the transactions
23:46
and we can prevent the double spend
23:47
which is
23:48
you sending a bitcoin here and sending a
23:50
bitcoin there we’ve
23:51
solved this store a value problem and
23:54
bitcoin does that the best
23:55
and you see that with price appreciation
23:58
you see that with
23:59
uh investor buy-in with corporate with
24:02
corporate adoption
24:03
you will probably see that with
24:04
governmental adoption at some point in
24:05
some smaller governments and things like
24:07
this
24:07
because it does that value store so
24:10
effectively
24:10
so that’s why in this cryptocurrency
24:12
space when you look at market cap
24:14
when you look at adoption when you look
24:15
at the first person in to cryptocurrency
24:17
they’re always in bitcoin usually right
24:20
is because it is the alpha and the omega
24:22
of the value prop which is the store of
24:24
value
24:25
right it does it better than anybody
24:26
else right and in fact i mean
24:29
what wrong one a lot of the uh
24:32
other coins the only way you can buy
24:35
them
24:36
is with bitcoin i mean i believe there
24:37
are even some that you can’t directly
24:40
use fiat currency to buy them you have
24:42
to buy them through
24:44
uh either bitcoin and then there are
24:45
some that you have to you have to use
24:46
ethereum
24:47
but you know it’s it’s there’s you know
24:49
we’re going to talk about the fiat on
24:51
ramp
24:51
there’s a bitcoin on ramp to some of
24:53
these other other coins as well so it
24:55
really
24:55
so really where its value is coming from
24:58
then is the fact that because of early
25:00
adoption and because it was solid
25:02
going on there’s so much
25:05
momentum and there’s so many like you
25:07
said nodes and
25:08
and basically people and firms that are
25:10
using bitcoin and
25:11
building their systems on the bitcoin
25:13
blockchain
25:14
that it’s got that advantage that you
25:17
know it’s it’s sort of like
25:18
if i if i’ve built a uh you know some
25:21
kind of
25:22
business or service that is so well
25:24
established that it’s able to provide
25:26
better than anyone else
25:27
yes i can have other competition and
25:29
they can have market share
25:30
but unless they make a major innovation
25:32
in that space
25:33
i’m going to be the default people go to
25:35
because i was already there i already
25:36
have that that early market adoption
25:39
yeah and it’s also the simplicity right
25:41
so technologically it may not be the
25:43
most advanced but it is the most
25:45
eloquent solution and that’s really what
25:46
draw
25:47
drew me to it right as a cyber security
25:48
professional they use
25:50
the satoshi nakamoto right the you know
25:53
suit anonymous founder of
25:55
bitcoin he or they or she or whatever
25:57
right um
25:58
used a very eloquent solution to secure
26:01
the blockchain right they they use these
26:03
these well-known cybersecurity solutions
26:05
they used well-known
26:07
uh cryptography which is public key and
26:09
private key so you have your private key
26:11
spike
26:12
and that’s how you verify that all your
26:13
transactions are legitimate
26:15
and all those long numbered things that
26:17
you see that are your wallet addresses
26:19
that’s actually a cryptographic key it’s
26:21
called a public key
26:22
you can give that to anyone i was having
26:23
a discussion with a gym owner three days
26:25
ago
26:26
and he’s like can i just send this to
26:27
you and you’ll send me bitcoin i’m like
26:28
yeah man that’s your public
26:30
address it’s literally like if you had
26:31
your street address on the side of the
26:33
road
26:34
someone can walk by and look at it it
26:36
makes no difference it’s just
26:37
identifying where you are in the digital
26:39
world
26:41
so then and this is where i get confused
26:43
so
26:44
my understanding is everyone can view
26:48
because it’s the ledger everyone can and
26:50
we can we’re going to talk a little bit
26:51
more later about you know privacy and
26:52
security issues but like
26:54
okay so if everyone if someone knows my
26:56
wallet that means they can follow
26:58
every single transaction i’ve ever done
27:01
right
27:01
like that that means once they know that
27:03
wallet they can they can follow all the
27:05
other trans or am i or am i incorrect in
27:06
that
27:07
no you’re right um bitcoin has
27:09
integrated some solutions to
27:11
prevent this right with their like
27:13
segregated witness updates
27:15
sedgwit s-e-g-w-i-t um yeah they
27:19
increase the transaction per section and
27:20
they per second and they also
27:22
allowed for the integration of um
27:25
derivative keys
27:26
and so what you have in bitcoin wallets
27:28
that you segwit which
27:29
most do now i think um you can have
27:31
these derived keys and so for every
27:34
transaction you can have a derived key
27:36
that has its own
27:37
um base key basically it’s a it’s a
27:39
cryptographic solution to that issue
27:41
that you’re talking about
27:42
now it’s not completely private but um
27:44
it is it is a
27:45
it is kind of a you know at least a
27:47
cover to you know
27:48
everybody looking at every single
27:49
transaction you’ve ever made so there’s
27:51
still
27:52
there’s still a measure that this
27:53
happened and people can see it but it
27:55
doesn’t give all the details of it
27:56
basically it’s it’s that would only be
27:58
by the actual
27:59
witness of the segregated witnesses that
28:00
were a part of that
28:02
yeah something something like that it’s
28:03
it’s uh the only way you could aggregate
28:06
those transactions is if you had that
28:08
derivative public key
28:09
which is still not not the key you use
28:11
to sign it’s not like your private key
28:12
that everyone has to keep
28:14
private but it is um the the the
28:17
backbone of those other public keys that
28:19
were derived to do
28:20
each one of those independent
28:21
transactions okay okay fair enough
28:24
and so we hear a lot about crypto but
28:27
since
28:27
there are but there are many other
28:29
solutions out there and since especially
28:31
now that bitcoin is dead
28:32
why don’t we talk about some of these
28:33
other programs this other solutions that
28:35
that
28:36
that hopefully won’t die like bitcoin
28:37
did we hear a lot about a lot of things
28:39
like
28:40
i don’t even know if i’m saying it
28:41
correctly defy c5
28:44
um uh data oracles and you know all
28:47
these other blockchain solutions
28:49
what talk to us about what these
28:51
different things mean and and i guess in
28:53
a broader sense talk to us about how
28:55
blockchain can solve a lot of other
28:57
problems that couldn’t
28:58
be previously solved without this type
29:00
of technology
29:02
yeah this is one of the the wildest
29:03
scenarios right it’s where you can go
29:05
full rabbit hole right you can try to
29:07
apply this to
29:09
all kind i mean they’re applying it to
29:11
like insurance products crop protection
29:13
weather analysis like all this stuff but
29:15
anyway so our arbitrating disputes
29:17
there’s yeah
29:18
yeah it’s and inevitably it is better
29:22
right
29:22
there’s less overhead the code is doing
29:24
the work in most of these cases
29:26
if you integrate it appropriately it’s
29:28
trustless so you don’t have to worry
29:29
about right
29:30
someone deciding that they don’t want to
29:32
pay you on the contract anyway so
29:34
so yeah let’s talk about a few of the
29:35
technologies the first thing we need to
29:36
do is establish
29:37
ethereum right so we mentioned ethereum
29:39
here um really ethereum kind of set the
29:41
stage for doing all this other stuff
29:43
right so if bitcoin’s a great store of
29:45
value ethereum
29:47
is how we execute on that store of value
29:49
they call them smart contracts
29:50
you would know these in your real life
29:52
as contracts so they’re really
29:54
not that very not that different right a
29:56
and a contract says what
29:58
if you provide me a service right if
30:00
spike cohen mentions me on his podcast
30:02
i will give him some value right and
30:05
there’s a contract sign that says that
30:06
you will do this
30:07
and you will abide by the contract and
30:09
what does that really mean in the real
30:10
world it means
30:12
you know you’ll do what you say you do
30:13
and if you don’t people will know
30:15
and not use you because you’re not very
30:16
trustworthy right
30:18
in the digital world if we put this into
30:20
code
30:21
then it is immutable that means we can’t
30:24
change it at all
30:25
right and so what ethereum has done has
30:28
a given has given
30:29
a an infrastructure for executing
30:32
contracts
30:33
right and so what you can do is you can
30:35
say hey i want to
30:36
mint my own token for example i want to
30:39
mint travis token
30:40
and there’s going to be 5500 of them and
30:43
i’m going to give them out to special
30:44
people all over the world right and i
30:46
can write that into code
30:47
and have it sit on the ethereum
30:50
blockchain right
30:51
and so those that’s an example of
30:52
something that that you could do
30:54
with ethereum that you cannot do with
30:55
bitcoin right and now people could argue
30:57
there’s some solutions and layer 2 stuff
30:59
and whatever but but that’s that’s the
31:00
essential
31:01
transition ethereum actually has that
31:03
built into its system as opposed to
31:06
retrofitting it onto onto bitcoin yeah
31:08
with its coding language salinity
31:10
yeah they built this language
31:11
infrastructure to do just that
31:13
right right okay cool uh go ahead go
31:16
ahead yeah so so let’s get to your your
31:18
c5d5 stuff right yeah
31:20
so yeah our c5d5 stuff we’re in this
31:22
together spike
31:23
so so this is our d5
31:27
comrade yeah so actually it’s
31:30
it’s more eloquent than that because we
31:32
really are right if we’re participating
31:33
in this infrastructure
31:35
we are verifying the blocks we are we
31:37
are uh
31:38
building our infrastructure out right
31:39
now right it’s in its
31:41
infancy it’s in its internet 1993 days
31:43
which is the coolest thing
31:45
so so then if we can do these things
31:48
if we can allow for the creation of
31:51
tokens the transaction of tokens with
31:53
some dynamic
31:54
changes right if the price hits this
31:56
value i will send it into this location
31:58
right those are those are contract
32:00
uh qualifiers basically so if i start
32:02
doing that then i can start building in
32:04
logic so let’s let’s talk about what
32:05
what logic i might build in how about i
32:07
build a piece of code
32:09
that allows me to swap tokens right it’s
32:12
just code that if i put some
32:14
tokens in there’s a a pool of tokens
32:16
that it
32:17
that it can draw from called a liquidity
32:19
pool and it will give me some other
32:21
tokens out right
32:22
i put in for example i put in dollars
32:24
and get out euros in like the real world
32:26
right
32:26
okay so i i uh i put in
32:30
chain link and i get out ethereum ether
32:32
tokens right
32:33
and that’s called decentralized finance
32:35
d5 right that’s
32:36
a code base that is executing that for
32:39
you and there’s all these really cool
32:40
things that they do
32:41
around d5 to incentivize you to
32:43
participate right
32:44
because you need tokens just like just
32:47
like a bank or an
32:48
exchange like the nasdaq right or these
32:51
stock exchanges or whoever provides the
32:53
liquidity to the stock market i know
32:54
more about
32:55
cryptocurrency than i do about the stock
32:56
market by the way right right right um
32:59
you need people to participate in these
33:00
infrastructures right you need them to
33:02
lend you their tokens so that you can
33:03
swap them out and do these things right
33:05
and so you need them you need to put
33:07
them in the protocol which is this weird
33:09
ephemeral space
33:10
that the that the code is using right
33:13
that’s decentralized finance okay so we
33:15
talked about
33:15
what it is why is it so great right if
33:18
this is another example of a trustless
33:20
environment
33:20
right i don’t have to worry about you
33:22
know robin hood not being not allowing
33:24
me to trade something
33:26
i don’t have to worry about whether the
33:27
stock market is open on monday
33:29
right or on saturday or on friday or on
33:31
president’s day or on july 4th
33:33
right i don’t have to worry about any of
33:34
these things or a 2 or a two
33:37
or a 2 40 in the morning or something
33:38
like that yeah yeah yeah
33:40
the protocol executes and it does it
33:43
with
33:43
precision and it is immutable when you
33:46
ask it to do something it does it in the
33:48
exact way it was designed to
33:50
now we have to be concerned with the the
33:52
quality of this code right
33:53
so we do things like you know code
33:55
review and regular code review and
33:57
audits and all these things
33:58
but i mean that’s the cool part about d5
34:00
right is this decentralized mechanism
34:03
and there’s this like halfway in between
34:05
infrastructure that they have out there
34:06
now called c5
34:08
centralized finance but in the
34:10
cryptocurrency world and there are a
34:11
couple of solutions out there
34:13
celsius blockchain block fi um
34:16
some of your exchanges coinbase and
34:18
kraken and
34:20
gemini they do some of this c5 stuff too
34:23
they’ll do centralized finance right
34:25
which is allowing you to exchange tokens
34:26
it’s allowing you to earn interest for
34:28
example like what your bank does on your
34:30
on your coins so you can do that in a
34:31
centralized manner or in a decentralized
34:34
manner now you have the option right
34:35
before you just put your money in a bank
34:37
and that liquidity pool of money got
34:40
exchanged and moved around and earned
34:41
interest and did all these things with
34:43
basically without your knowledge at this
34:44
point so what’s
34:46
it so then that explains i’m you know
34:48
i’m being told you know uh
34:49
ethereum 2.0 that i can stake my my
34:52
uh ether tokens uh into uh
34:56
into ethereum for a like a seven and a
34:58
half percent
34:59
uh return on inve annual return on
35:01
investment is that they want me to stake
35:03
it because they need to have that
35:04
that in that space that that ephemeral
35:07
space that you were talking about
35:08
uh where they can use that
35:11
to basically that’s the part i’m not
35:14
getting so
35:14
they need my coins so that they because
35:16
they’re they’re rebuilding
35:18
the infrastructure of it and they need
35:20
the coins to be able to do that that
35:22
that’s the part that that’s where i stop
35:24
that’s where my three to five minutes of
35:26
talking intelligently cuts off and i and
35:28
i let someone else answer it so you said
35:29
we were going to tell people no on this
35:31
podcast i’m going to tell you no spike
35:33
okay okay no good good good yeah so
35:35
that’s so
35:36
so that’s actually a different mechanism
35:37
right so defy
35:39
is this layer on ethereum that does that
35:41
type of stuff
35:42
ethereum staking is actually a different
35:44
mechanism but it’s
35:46
it’s rewarding you for doing something
35:47
but not that right what it’s supporting
35:49
you for doing is participating in the
35:51
ethereum network
35:52
so where bitcoin rewards you for mining
35:55
and expending your cpu power to try and
35:57
solve these problems to secure the
35:59
network right
36:00
the ethereum is moving towards rewarding
36:02
use differently
36:03
it’s called proof of stake so what
36:05
bitcoin does is proof of work you do the
36:06
work
36:07
and eventually if you do enough work
36:08
i’ll give you a bitcoin right
36:10
in ethereum it’s they’re moving to proof
36:13
of stake and so what proof of stake is
36:15
is you participate in the network and
36:17
then
36:18
by participating and staking some of
36:20
your value in the network
36:22
they might reward you right and so it’s
36:24
the same it’s the same mechanism of
36:26
proof of work but instead of just doing
36:27
work over and over
36:28
you actually just hold your value with
36:30
them and then randomly
36:31
they select a node every so often and
36:34
some of that value is awarded to that
36:36
node for just participating in the in
36:38
the
36:39
infrastructure so then how does
36:42
how is the work done if they’re not
36:43
rewarding the work and they’re just
36:44
rewarding the
36:45
having the skin in the game how is the
36:46
work done very good so
36:48
it’s uh so the work isn’t necessary
36:51
right so
36:52
the the stake is so the what the work
36:54
does
36:55
is it decentralizes everything it allows
36:58
everyone to participate that’s all it is
36:59
it’s a mechanism to allow everyone to
37:01
participate
37:02
and to increase the block every time you
37:04
need more transactions add ledger
37:05
entries to those transactions right
37:06
right right right
37:08
and so this and so the work acts as a
37:10
proxy to let you participate right
37:12
so how else could you participate you
37:13
could own ether right and you could
37:15
stake it in the ethereum protocol
37:17
and you could then participate in the
37:19
ethereum network instead of having to
37:20
use
37:21
computational mining right uh what what
37:23
the ethereum trust believes right is
37:26
that it’s a more
37:27
equitable distribution of tokens because
37:29
you don’t have to have these huge
37:30
bitcoin mining farms
37:32
now you can literally just hold any
37:33
amount of ethereum and
37:36
and add it to the protocol to
37:37
participate in that decentralized
37:39
infrastructure
37:40
and then that they will reward you for
37:42
that participation
37:44
and there’s no work that’s having to be
37:46
done so who susses out the the
37:48
the ledger and verifies that the
37:50
transactions are correct and all that
37:51
yeah so you still have you still have um
37:54
like
37:55
no you still have people participating
37:57
in the the le the block distribution
37:59
right okay so those so so you get
38:01
rewarded for participating in ethereum
38:03
with proof of stake and you also get
38:05
rewarded for um uh the transaction
38:08
the the value of the transactions right
38:11
okay so it’s not called proof of
38:13
okay okay so there is still a it’s not
38:15
called proof of work but there is still
38:16
a reward for uh for actually building
38:20
out the ledger
38:21
and and and making sure that the
38:23
transaction yeah okay okay
38:24
all right but yeah okay no that makes
38:27
sense no
38:28
that was the thing that because i knew
38:29
that people were saying oh well these
38:31
ones are much more efficient because
38:32
they don’t require proof of work and i’m
38:34
like
38:35
okay well then who’s doing the work so
38:36
okay that makes sense that makes sense
38:37
so you’re generating the blocks you’re
38:38
just not doing all of that
38:40
that mechanism to make your the
38:42
decentralization work right all you’re
38:44
doing is the work to make the blocks
38:46
which is very simple
38:47
right you and the way you’re
38:48
participating in the decentralized
38:49
network is by owning ethereum
38:51
instead of having to do all of the work
38:53
so there’s a small amount of work that’s
38:54
done now
38:55
okay so instead of the entire network
38:58
having to participate in order to keep
38:59
it decentralized these things are being
39:01
built out by those who
39:02
who are are building it out or or or
39:05
being uh vet vetted and processed but
39:08
then the
39:09
decentralization is the fact that
39:10
they’re rewarding you for owning any to
39:12
begin with
39:13
yes and and actively participating by
39:15
staking in that protocol
39:17
okay all right okay now that makes sense
39:20
to me
39:20
so that was my that was part that was 30
39:23
percent of my reason for having you on
39:24
was was to explain
39:26
that it’s weird stuff so um
39:29
so these and let’s talk a little bit
39:32
about coins versus tokens because
39:34
i i just uh a couple weeks ago uh
39:38
uh figure found out what the difference
39:40
was um i thought i knew it but now i
39:43
i get it and it was explained to me in a
39:45
very intuitive way which i’m sure is how
39:46
you’re about to do it
39:47
what is the difference between coins and
39:49
tokens
39:50
yeah so coins are rewards for blockchain
39:54
participants
39:55
so a bitcoin coin an ether
39:58
coin right a cardano ada coin those are
40:01
all block chains
40:02
they are actual chains of ledgers that
40:05
are used
40:05
as networks for this ledger
40:07
infrastructure we were talking about
40:08
those are coins okay okay tokens
40:11
tokens are uh they are
40:14
rewa they are value for let’s say
40:18
smart contracts built on top of these
40:20
solutions they are layer we call them
40:22
layer two
40:23
right so coins are layer one they are
40:25
the base layer
40:26
and tokens are layer two right they are
40:29
an overlay
40:30
on someone else’s block chain and so
40:34
we call them in uh in ethereum there are
40:36
a few different variations but the most
40:37
common token is an erc
40:39
20 token and so that token is a part as
40:42
a as an ethereum smart contract
40:44
infrastructure right
40:45
and so you write a contract that says
40:47
i’m going to mint 5000 travis tokens
40:49
right and they can do different things
40:51
but the but the minting process is just
40:53
the first part right
40:54
and then those tokens live and exchange
40:57
on
40:57
the the ethereum backbone so
41:02
using a an example that others might
41:05
be so so the coin is basically the
41:08
the coin that’s actually the official
41:10
currency of that blockchain basically
41:12
and then the tokens are things built on
41:13
top of that either for a specific use
41:16
or a certain environment that’s been
41:17
created or something so like a real
41:19
world example although
41:20
i shouldn’t say real world because i
41:21
mean bitcoin you know having died is now
41:24
very real world there are people that
41:25
you know they
41:26
their their fortune of bitcoin is now
41:28
down to
41:29
50 more than 50 000 times what a us
41:32
dollar is and you know
41:33
rest in peace to them thoughts and
41:34
prayers but the the
41:36
uh the the coin uh so using a i guess
41:40
real world or in real life example
41:42
uh so we have dollars that’s the that
41:44
would be the coin
41:45
uh that’s the money in the currency but
41:48
then like for example
41:49
you go into a chuck e cheese and you
41:51
exchange it for tokens that you can use
41:53
uh in the machines or you go and play uh
41:56
world of warcraft world of warcraft or
41:58
some other game like that
41:59
and you’re exchanging it for whatever
42:00
the currency is in that that’s sort it’s
42:02
not a perfect
42:03
parallel or anything like that but it’s
42:05
a similar it’s kind of a decent analogy
42:07
for
42:08
what is the coin and what is the token
42:10
right yeah or
42:11
or you buy tesla right tesla is
42:13
denominated in dollars you needed those
42:15
dollars to get that
42:16
to get that tesla stock they they do
42:18
everything in oh the stock yeah
42:20
right they do everything in the us
42:22
dollar base that layer they buy all
42:24
their commodity goods they transact all
42:25
their value in u.s dollars right
42:27
but they’re still represented a
42:28
representation of that company
42:30
right and they’re using the it’s not a
42:33
blockchain but they’re using the
42:35
financial
42:36
infrastructure of the dollar or whatever
42:38
that you
42:39
whatever you were using to to buy them
42:40
okay cool all right
42:42
transactional yeah using a dollar
42:45
transactional layer yeah it’s just it’s
42:47
a crappy one that loses value over time
42:49
and it’s
42:49
highly centralized and they print out
42:51
more whenever they want to but
42:53
it’s it’s uh you know it’s it’s similar
42:55
similar parallels there so
42:57
um it’s obvious that everything that
42:59
we’re talking about
43:00
naturally serves and has an effect on
43:03
decentralizing things
43:05
which makes sense that so many
43:06
libertarians
43:08
anarchists people that are
43:10
decentralization
43:11
or or the term on the left might be
43:14
democratization but it’s essentially the
43:16
same thing
43:16
it takes the power and responsibility
43:19
out of the hands of a small handful of
43:21
people who created
43:22
a top-down system and it decentralizes
43:25
it out
43:26
to literally all of us so that obviously
43:29
has
43:30
an effect of decentralizing everything
43:32
eventually away from top-down systems
43:34
towards
43:35
more cooperative and competitive
43:37
decentralized ones
43:38
uh on everything like you said
43:40
blockchain can be applied to so many
43:42
things which
43:43
as a libertarian as someone who is an
43:45
anarchist and who is more
43:46
you know decentralized leaning who is
43:48
about you know
43:49
dismantling and decentralizing power out
43:52
to everyone
43:53
uh leading to often fairer and more
43:55
equitable and and
43:56
and freer solutions what effect that
43:59
do you think that this will have on like
44:01
the existing structure
44:03
like what effect will this have on on
44:05
government what effect will this have on
44:07
big business how does that look to you
44:09
so i think the analog is the internet
44:11
right the internet democratized data
44:13
for everybody right before you had to go
44:16
to a university you had to
44:18
have access to a library which not
44:20
everybody does in third world countries
44:22
all of these things have the time to do
44:24
it
44:24
now you can stream all the stuff to your
44:25
phone so so if you if you think about
44:27
the analog
44:28
to data democratization right and then
44:30
you scale it up by like
44:32
a thousand times in my opinion right
44:34
because right data is
44:36
important right but transacting value is
44:38
everything
44:41
so that’s the that’s the real scary part
44:43
in my opinion or the real cool part is
44:45
so what i think the what i think the net
44:47
effect is is very similar to the
44:49
democratization
44:50
of data right you’re going to get more
44:51
participation in the infrastructure more
44:53
participation
44:54
not in the cyber security infrastructure
44:55
or the cryptographic infrastructure but
44:57
in the world infrastructure
44:59
in the world economy right you’re going
45:00
to have more value transaction from
45:02
different places
45:03
you’re going to have more more access to
45:06
capital for people in venezuela or
45:09
argentina or nigeria or in
45:11
other places here in the u.s right well
45:13
like the
45:14
the access to this infrastructure is now
45:17
unlimited
45:18
whereas before if you were denominated
45:20
in venezuelan pesos right
45:22
or in venezuelan boulevard pesos or in
45:25
venezuela bolivar or in lira or
45:28
something like that in lebanon
45:29
right this is this it would be scary
45:31
stuff and now you don’t know how to get
45:33
paid because when the dollars come into
45:35
your country
45:36
they are 40 scalped by the lebanese
45:38
government because
45:39
they they are trying to keep the peg
45:41
appropriate and all these things so
45:43
it’s going to democratize all of this
45:44
value in my opinion
45:46
so you know this is a subject that
45:48
because you know i
45:49
i say to people pretty similar to how
45:52
you’ve said it
45:53
this is the internetization of all
45:55
things
45:56
at largely at once it’s not like it’s
45:59
going to happen immediately but
46:00
this opens up
46:03
everything to being decentralized
46:07
whether anyone likes it or not because
46:09
that’s just naturally how things are
46:10
going to go using these systems which
46:12
are
46:13
exponentially more efficient for those
46:16
who know me they know that i am a
46:17
stickler about the use of
46:18
use of the term exponentially it doesn’t
46:20
just mean multiply so it means that
46:23
there are actual you i can add or remove
46:25
zeros
46:26
by by a matter of actual exponents this
46:28
is
46:29
exponentially more efficient and and
46:32
therefore desirable
46:33
than any other system so it will in the
46:35
same way
46:36
that the internet has easily replaced
46:39
uh you know uh uh telegraphs
46:42
and and and fax machines
46:45
and um you know snail mail where those
46:48
things are really
46:49
just you know novelties that we use
46:52
right now if you write a letter to
46:53
someone it’s to show them how important
46:55
they are to you it’s not because that’s
46:56
how you actually
46:57
have to reach someone uh you know it’s
46:59
it’s it’s the
47:00
the our telephones are largely
47:02
increasingly just the internet
47:04
but with voice um it has completely the
47:07
but that was just
47:08
the way that we interact with each other
47:12
this is everything so when for example
47:14
i’ll say to someone you know this is
47:16
like the internet
47:17
internetization of everything they go oh
47:20
great so everything’s gonna be
47:22
in in control of big tech and it’s like
47:24
actually no
47:25
because we are still far more
47:28
decentralized in the way that we
47:29
communicate and receive information
47:31
than we were prior to it it did
47:33
centralize together
47:35
and has been centralizing together
47:36
somewhat in social media
47:38
by a handful of tech companies because
47:40
of the fact that everything else is
47:41
still
47:42
centralized this decentralizes all that
47:45
stuff too
47:46
so now a bunch of people working
47:48
together on one of these blockchain
47:50
systems
47:51
can create a facebook or something
47:53
similar to it
47:56
far more easily than a centralized
47:58
company with a top-down
48:00
hierarchical corporate infrastructure
48:02
which was really only created for tax
48:04
purposes and legal purposes
48:06
they can create something that actually
48:08
is more efficient and was created for
48:10
that
48:10
effectiveness and efficiency that’ll be
48:12
far better than facebook that’ll be far
48:14
better which is why i’m less worried
48:16
about big tech right now
48:18
because the nature of of of the very the
48:21
very nature of
48:22
blockchain is the total decentralization
48:25
of all things
48:26
uh with really and then as the power
48:29
industry becomes more and more
48:30
decentralized with things like and
48:32
now i’m going off into a total total
48:34
tangent with things like
48:35
micro reactors you know with thorium i’m
48:38
going way into a whole thing but
48:40
as life and society gets more and more
48:42
decentralized
48:45
the justification or reason for
48:47
existence of these major systems
48:50
that you know give us the scraps of what
48:52
they determine that we’re allowed to
48:53
have and i’m even talking about
48:55
governments here
48:56
not only do they not become prime
48:58
anymore
48:59
not only are they not in control anymore
49:01
there’s no real argument for them to
49:03
exist anymore i don’t know if you
49:04
consider yourself an anarchist or not
49:05
but
49:06
is there in the midst of this what will
49:08
even be the argument for
49:10
continued centralization of anything or
49:12
will there be
49:14
yeah it really makes you think a lot
49:15
about you know what
49:17
money means to you and these types of
49:19
things right
49:21
it’s it’s it’s really it’s almost scary
49:22
right you come for everybody says you
49:24
come for the price appreciation
49:25
and you stay for all the other stuff
49:27
right you’re like oh look at bitcoin
49:29
price go up all this stuff just over
49:30
time most
49:31
appreciating asset of all asset class of
49:33
all time in the last 12 years right
49:35
but when you start thinking about how
49:37
your money works right
49:38
how your government interacts with your
49:40
money how you interact with your money
49:42
and your government and that it’s really
49:44
just a store of value of your time
49:46
elon musk said this great like an
49:47
interview he’s like money is just a
49:49
proxy
49:49
for the value and time that you that you
49:51
accrue right
49:52
right um it’s a store of value that you
49:56
can then use
49:57
uh for for for some other thing that you
49:59
find more valuable than what you’re
50:00
exchanging it for
50:02
i want to go back to that swallowing
50:03
stuff right my favorite analog to this
50:06
where people
50:06
people really have a hard time
50:08
understanding like how technology
50:10
swallows things right we just see the
50:11
internet some 1990s boom and then all of
50:13
a sudden boom here we are
50:15
right streaming video over the internet
50:17
to everybody
50:18
at all everywhere 80 million platforms
50:20
right yes
50:21
right and everyone just thinks it’s
50:22
normal but from my guest room
50:25
yeah if you go back and you look at what
50:28
the internet did
50:29
right the internet ran over the phones
50:32
the phone
50:32
infrastructure those people controlled
50:35
the access to the internet at one point
50:37
you’re the the phone companies at t
50:39
right
50:40
and now what happens we’re running over
50:42
the internet the phones the
50:44
communication runs over the internet the
50:46
internet
50:46
swallowed all that stuff the internet
50:48
said oh you think you do communication
50:50
well
50:50
well we do it better we can stream it
50:52
live to anybody we can
50:54
we can democratize access we can
50:55
restrict access if we don’t want people
50:57
in this room here with us
50:58
we can do whatever we want to do we can
51:00
overlay music
51:02
and video and my title and whatever else
51:05
right yeah okay so bitcoin being dead
51:09
the internet swallowed the phones yeah
51:11
well what happens when
51:13
the cryptocurrency the store of value
51:16
swallows your store of value the dollar
51:19
the banks
51:20
the infrastructure to transact uh
51:22
internationally sepa and ach
51:24
and the clearing is instant and the
51:26
value transfer is undeniable and
51:28
immutable
51:28
what happens when all these things start
51:30
start to really get built out right
51:33
and the early adopters are going to be
51:34
rewarded for that just like they were in
51:36
in the internet and just like that
51:38
you’re seeing now with bitcoin being
51:40
dead
51:40
and being rewarded being being rewarded
51:43
for its death the
51:44
the phoenix rising from the ashes no
51:46
it’s like you and i love that that
51:48
example
51:49
you know the internet used to be used i
51:51
i’m old
51:52
how uh out of here how old are you i’m
51:54
33.
51:55
okay so yeah okay so i’m a few years old
51:57
you do you remember the age of having to
51:59
use dial up internet
52:01
oh yeah okay okay cool cool cool so i
52:03
was yeah i was like
52:04
you know when i was 13 14 i’m having to
52:06
use the internet
52:10
you were having to you which is why it
52:11
was so restricted
52:13
because it was basically what your what
52:15
your phone provider could could give you
52:17
however many kilobytes per second or
52:19
whatever which is just hilarious now
52:20
because we’re using like
52:22
a base of 5000 kilobytes a second just
52:24
to stream this
52:25
uh not to mention everything else
52:27
happening above it but
52:29
this is the reason we even are still
52:31
using the phone is because the idea of
52:33
calling someone and speaking with them
52:35
is still useful
52:36
centralized systems of finance are not
52:40
useful
52:41
when they’re replaced with something
52:42
that you know so it’s not i don’t know
52:44
that
52:45
the dollar will necessarily be run over
52:48
blockchain as much as it just won’t
52:51
there won’t be a need for it anymore if
52:53
there’s
52:53
if there’s a store of value that is
52:56
exponentially
52:57
more efficient and faster and more
52:59
trustworthy
53:00
and less prone to abuse and can’t be
53:02
printed out endlessly by a government
53:04
uh to to deride your to diminish the
53:08
value of what you’re holding
53:09
there’s is there even a reason for that
53:11
to exist anymore
53:14
yeah i i don’t know i’m a
53:17
i i i struggle with that question now
53:20
right
53:21
more than i did 36 months ago which is
53:24
the weird thing why
53:25
why would we not think about this until
53:27
it became a mainstream idea that we
53:28
could decentralize this value
53:30
infrastructure right
53:31
yeah it’s weird too because our
53:33
understanding of how technology evolves
53:35
is really it’s really muted it’s very
53:37
difficult to see the future
53:39
for example right people get rewarded
53:40
for that your elon musks
53:42
your jeff bezos is your you know
53:45
they get rewarded for seeing those
53:46
things to seek the pattern and see how
53:48
it’s going to work in the future
53:49
yeah yeah they see it coming and and
53:52
bezos for all his insight was
53:53
way too early right amazon’s price
53:55
depreciated by like 95
53:57
right yeah he saw it and we didn’t have
53:59
the technology to build what he wanted
54:01
to do wasn’t ready yet exactly
54:03
he’s like we’re gonna do it we’ll be
54:04
there right and that’s where we are now
54:06
right i i’m over here ranting like a
54:09
maniac on a live stream about how we’re
54:11
gonna swallow everything
54:13
and how i’m gonna pay a developer in
54:15
nigeria the exact same value and i’m
54:17
gonna pay him
54:17
on every hour that he works every hour
54:19
that he does because
54:21
that’s how easy this value transaction
54:23
is and everyone’s going
54:24
that doesn’t even compute right exactly
54:27
and eventually you’re going to see this
54:28
jack muller the guy who is developing a
54:30
layer 2 solution on bitcoin
54:32
was paying one of his developers every
54:33
second he showed this on a live stream
54:36
tweet he was like look
54:37
and he set up he set up a a code base
54:39
that would do that
54:40
it would stream bitcoin to him every
54:41
second he said here you go this is all
54:43
the value you have to me and i’m gonna
54:44
give it to you every second
54:45
i’m gonna give you an increment of that
54:47
of your salary and so now you have it
54:49
there’s no transaction every two weeks
54:51
why not if the if the transactional cost
54:53
is zero
54:54
then why can’t i just give it to you
54:55
every second every five minutes every
54:57
hour who cares
54:58
and what happens when you’re using ai
55:00
and you’re paying someone’s ai system in
55:02
in nano seconds like
55:04
it’s incredible what’s going to happen
55:05
so anyway before
55:07
we’re very wide-eyed and going down a
55:08
rabbit hole here but i think we’ve
55:10
touched on the basics here that
55:12
everything’s going to change and it’s
55:14
going to be amazing if you find yourself
55:16
having very little power in this system
55:18
that we have right now
55:19
the less power you have in my mind and
55:22
you can tell me if you disagree in my
55:23
mind
55:24
you’re gonna be happy or you should be
55:26
happier
55:27
than those who have a lot of power and
55:29
wealth built into the system
55:31
who suddenly will have no real reason to
55:33
exist but anyway
55:35
all that aside there are many questions
55:37
that i can sum up into two questions
55:39
here
55:40
number one what do you think about
55:42
dogecoin
55:43
like what do like i think it’s a meme
55:45
but yet i’m still gonna buy a hundred
55:47
bucks worth
55:48
because just in case it be replaces the
55:50
entire world financial system
55:52
i want to get in what what do you think
55:54
of dogecoin specifically okay so
55:56
so i believe everybody when they say
55:58
dogecoin is a meme coin
55:59
right it has no inherent value but it is
56:02
very interesting in the fact that
56:03
it is representative of sentiment right
56:06
and so
56:06
uh personally i don’t hold any dogecoin
56:10
and when people bring it up with me i
56:11
laugh right because uh all of the things
56:13
that i’m interested in
56:15
uh have inherent value right they
56:17
generate value and they do things right
56:19
bitcoin ethereum some of these other
56:21
there are a couple other tokens that i’m
56:23
very very interested in they have
56:24
inherent value and the use case for that
56:27
token
56:27
is clear too right they call it
56:29
tokenomics what does this thing do
56:31
why do i need a token you ask why we
56:33
need dollars right well why do i need a
56:35
token too
56:36
right so if it doesn’t have a use case
56:38
for me it’s not really in my
56:40
you know if you want my honest opinion
56:41
it doesn’t have a ton of value to me
56:43
um but i i love that it’s a gauge of
56:45
sentiment that i do find
56:46
absolutely fascinating it is definitely
56:48
a gauge of sentiment
56:50
and it is definitely i’m getting 100 i’m
56:52
getting 100 bucks worth because if the
56:53
worst case scenario i lose 100 bucks
56:54
best case scenario
56:56
i i gain 100 bucks well actually no best
56:58
case scenarios so
56:59
i get i get 100 i get i become a
57:01
millionaire i i just think the whole
57:03
thing is hilarious
57:04
you know i shared how the the people on
57:06
reddit actually made sure that it traded
57:09
so that the candles stick of it traced
57:12
the actual ears of the doge like i mean
57:15
it’s a meme like it’s it’s literally
57:17
it’s a me they’re having fun with it and
57:19
it’s a meme
57:20
it is what it is anyway uh uh but i i’m
57:23
gonna i
57:24
i you know people people people are now
57:26
saying you should buy these other coins
57:28
instead
57:28
folks i i used to have crypto i lost all
57:31
of it in a very tragic computing
57:33
accident and it’s very
57:34
very sad i don’t have any crypto anymore
57:36
um so uh
57:37
uh um i’ve confused my guests with my
57:40
boating
57:41
uh accident reference um but anyway uh
57:45
the other question is you know uh steve
57:48
south asked a few you know
57:49
and a few other people asked as well you
57:51
know what happens
57:53
if governments say
57:57
all crypto is banned except for ours and
57:59
you have to use ours
58:02
it’s kind of too late for them to stop
58:04
it isn’t it or am i wrong
58:07
no you’re absolutely right again in my
58:08
opinion right and there’s two there’s
58:10
two real
58:11
real bear cases for bitcoin right one is
58:13
governmental intervention right
58:15
and so let’s well you take the use case
58:17
right so nigeria is trying to ban
58:19
bitcoin right and what have they seen an
58:21
uptick in peer-to-peer bitcoin
58:23
transactions
58:24
right what are you gonna what are you
58:26
gonna do it’s clear
58:27
at that point right that government and
58:29
regulators don’t understand
58:30
what the fundamentals of bitcoin are
58:32
right right also
58:34
try and confiscate their bitcoin right
58:35
they’ve tried to do this with
58:37
criminals and these types of things it’s
58:38
happened over the last couple of months
58:40
specifically there have been specific
58:41
examples where they’re like
58:42
i don’t know i don’t have my private key
58:44
forgot it not giving it to you
58:45
what are you gonna do sorry yeah
58:50
the the second case is and i’ve heard
58:52
this from a few uh a few friends and
58:54
pundits
58:55
right is uh what happens if the internet
58:57
goes away right
58:58
so well what happens if i can’t and it’s
59:00
like if the internet goes away
59:02
we’ve got way more problems than you not
59:04
being able to get your bitcoin
59:05
yeah yeah if the internet so basically
59:09
the only way the internet is going away
59:11
is if the electrical grid is going away
59:14
long term i don’t just mean yeah i don’t
59:17
mean just
59:18
you know a short and by the way you know
59:20
my greatest
59:22
prayers and and and thought seriously to
59:24
the people in texas in oklahoma
59:25
i i’ve been here in myrtle beach where
59:27
we’ve lost where we’ve lost power and
59:28
had
59:29
you know tons of snow for a few days
59:31
it’s not fun
59:32
you know guys stay strong and stay safe
59:34
and and if you’re i mean i i love that
59:36
you’re on here but if you’re using what
59:38
little
59:38
you know power you have on your phone to
59:40
watch this maybe well and i don’t want
59:42
to tell you not to watch but
59:43
you know i but but you know long term
59:46
you know we don’t have an internet
59:47
anymore
59:48
because we have lost everything dollars
59:51
are worthless
59:52
uh you know in that case euro are
59:54
worthless whatever your your mutual
59:56
funds are worthless
59:58
your car is worthless like after a
60:00
certain point because once it goes down
60:02
then no one’s gonna be able to fix it
60:03
and you know you’re uh you know
60:06
you sh i’m not even sure you should be
60:07
buying silver and gold you should
60:08
probably be buying like bullets and food
60:10
like
60:10
you know that the if if if we’re going
60:13
in that direction
60:14
it’s going to be like a like a mad
60:17
it’s not even mad max i mean it it would
60:19
be like you know going back to the stone
60:22
age
60:22
inside of a generation because most of
60:24
us don’t know how to live that way so
60:26
it would be a mass culling of the vast
60:28
majority of us
60:29
uh that you know can’t live off off the
60:32
earth
60:33
and uh and you know it it bitcoin is
60:35
going to be the least of our troubles
60:37
but at that like
60:38
your everything you have is worthless
60:39
except for your guns your bullets and
60:41
and any any uh non-perishable food items
60:44
you have
60:45
pretty pretty much my cyber security
60:47
job’s gonna be null and void
60:48
yes you will have to find a new job and
60:51
you won’t have a monster.com to go to
60:53
to try to find your next job you’ll be
60:55
screwed in every way in every major way
60:56
also good luck getting food
60:58
but uh yeah so um i i tend to agree with
61:02
you i think i think it’s
61:03
it is far too late for governments
61:06
to try to stop this and in fact if they
61:08
try to stop it it’s just going to push
61:10
people into it even more
61:11
it’s sort of like when you say to
61:13
someone hey it’s either me
61:15
or him and it turns out they like him
61:17
even more
61:18
and so now it just marginalizes me i
61:20
lose my friend in it
61:22
as an example so um now there are some
61:26
current limitations uh to the blockchain
61:28
and to crypto
61:29
uh such as the number of transactions
61:31
that can be carried out every second
61:33
uh network usage fees that are that are
61:36
built in although they’re much less than
61:37
the
61:38
usage fees of competing centralized
61:40
systems but they are there
61:42
um the fact that you have to fiat uh on
61:44
there you have to use a fiat on ramp at
61:46
least for now
61:47
uh which are basically the exchanges
61:48
that we use to exchange fiat currency
61:50
for crypto
61:51
talk to us about these types of
61:52
limitations what they are and
61:54
what things that are being done to to
61:56
innovate past these these limitations
61:59
yeah so from a technology standpoint
62:01
people really harp on
62:02
uh the transactions per second of the
62:04
bitcoin network
62:06
and so when the bitcoin network gets
62:07
congested especially in
62:10
really high volatility times like we’re
62:11
seeing now with like exponential price
62:13
increases and things like this
62:15
what you see is the bitcoin network does
62:17
get congested
62:18
and the the time it takes for you to
62:20
transact that value
62:21
goes from minutes to 15 minutes to one
62:25
hour to two hours in some cases in like
62:27
the 2017 bull run
62:29
and that is you know to to to a
62:31
technology that hangs its hat on
62:33
being immutable and quick right that’s a
62:35
scary component
62:36
and so there are you know bitcoin the
62:39
bitcoin
62:40
funds out there that are that are
62:42
contributing to the open source
62:43
development are working on these things
62:45
they’re working on some layer two
62:46
scaling solutions like lightning network
62:48
it is being built out and again you
62:50
pointed this out right
62:51
if uh if an if you know the disadvantage
62:54
is a 15-minute transaction
62:55
is what you’re complaining about then
62:57
the centralized banking system clearing
62:59
in three weeks
63:00
should be uh appalling to you right
63:04
the second one well and i was just gonna
63:07
say and just in the same way as your
63:09
banks will often cover that while it’s
63:11
being cleared
63:12
there are systems being created that
63:14
will cover these things
63:15
for that 15 minutes that it’s being
63:17
cleared which is sort of like what the
63:19
lightning network is right like it’s
63:20
sort of pre-clearing it before
63:22
the actual clearing happens man i need
63:24
to do more research on the lightning
63:25
network
63:26
uh okay okay okay it’s a really
63:29
interesting technology
63:30
and i know it’s a really slick layer to
63:32
scaling technology
63:33
but i haven’t done a tech deep dive um i
63:36
yeah
63:36
it’s it’s really interesting okay that’s
63:38
fair but but the second point is uh
63:41
the network fees yeah yeah and so
63:42
network fees are a huge problem though
63:44
actually in my opinion probably the
63:46
biggest attractor to the ethereum
63:47
network is
63:48
uh the network fees and that’s what
63:50
ethereum 2.0 is
63:51
in part trying to solve they went to
63:53
proof of they’re going to proof of stake
63:55
um to solve some of the central
63:58
centrality i suppose of ethereum mining
64:00
um and it doesn’t do as good a job at
64:02
you know working off the network fees
64:04
but i mean
64:04
the ethereum transaction fees are
64:06
astronomical right now
64:08
and they really are a barrier to entry
64:09
for um the little guy which is a weird
64:11
thing to say
64:12
in in you know blockchain and
64:14
decentralized infrastructures
64:16
i mean you could have transaction fees
64:18
for any for any type of transaction
64:19
small or large
64:20
uh up to you know 50 60 100 on the on
64:24
the
64:24
ethereum network right now so let’s say
64:26
you wanted to exchange your is that is
64:28
that
64:28
is that a is that a base fee or or a
64:31
percentage of the
64:32
of the amount so it’s it’s a combination
64:34
of both yeah so
64:35
as you try to transact as you transact
64:37
more coins
64:38
than the then the mechanism of
64:40
transaction increases so you do have
64:42
a larger fee for lar for slightly larger
64:46
transactions
64:46
but realistically there’s kind of some
64:48
minimum threshold that’s that gets to
64:50
that
64:50
is large and then it’s a little bit more
64:52
on top of that
64:54
so but i mean yeah i mean if you’re
64:56
trying to buy
64:57
you know if you have some ether for
64:59
example and you’re trying to get you
65:00
know one of these tokens
65:02
a celsius or a chain link these are just
65:05
two erc20s i have on the top of my head
65:06
if you’re trying to get some of those
65:08
projects you know and you want to buy a
65:10
hundred dollars worth like of your
65:12
dogecoin
65:12
you know um it’s gonna cost you like
65:15
right now when
65:16
everything is you know the opposite of
65:19
dying
65:19
right it’s you know and people want to
65:21
be on the network right
65:22
it’s going to be really expensive and
65:24
and that’s and that’s a real
65:26
that’s a real issue and you see you
65:27
actually see the technologies the open
65:30
market right
65:31
driving adoption in other technologies
65:33
right what has happened to some of these
65:34
other
65:35
you know high transaction per second low
65:37
fee networks cardano comes to mind as an
65:39
example of a
65:40
a low transaction fee very high
65:42
transactions per second
65:43
extremely robust technology and what has
65:46
happened to the cardano price over the
65:48
last
65:48
you know 90 days or six months or so
65:52
is it’s you know 20x because people are
65:55
adopting the network and especially in
65:57
you know smaller um you know smaller
65:59
countries and places where
66:01
microtransactions are even more
66:02
important right cardona
66:04
just signed this agreement with you know
66:05
like an african consortium
66:07
and because of this exact reason so you
66:10
know
66:10
this is another great example of the
66:12
open market really driving
66:14
technology adoption which is even better
66:16
right it allows you to iterate quickly
66:18
and and efficiently to a solution
66:20
because you’re not waiting for policy to
66:22
catch up
66:23
you’re not waiting for a bunch of if
66:26
we’re trying to use
66:27
you know like a technological comparison
66:29
the way that society at large works
66:32
right now
66:32
is that people are doing things that
66:34
comply with what government has told
66:36
them to do
66:36
outside of black and gray markets that’s
66:38
you know the majority of things that are
66:40
happening
66:41
in order for something to become policy
66:45
government has to approve it well in
66:46
order for government to approve it a
66:48
bunch of politicians who often have no
66:50
idea what they’re even talking about
66:52
have to get the input of the experts
66:54
which are usually cherry picked
66:56
from various think tanks as well as then
66:59
speaking
67:00
to their put people that actually put
67:02
them in office the cronies who
67:04
gave them the millions of dollars in
67:06
exchange for the trillions of dollars
67:07
that they get
67:08
they put them in office they have to
67:09
hear from them then they do a few town
67:11
halls with voters who often have no idea
67:13
what they’re talking about on the
67:14
subject
67:15
and then they come and say here is what
67:17
we are going to do
67:18
this process can take anywhere from
67:20
several weeks
67:21
to essentially forever it could take
67:23
decades i mean look at marijuana
67:25
legalization we you know
67:26
the public overwhelmingly has supported
67:28
that for well over a decade now
67:30
uh and it’s it could take another decade
67:32
for it to happen
67:33
whereas if you’ve completely
67:35
decentralized everything now now i’m
67:36
doing uh this is i’m blackpilling
67:38
everyone into anarchy right now
67:40
uh that when you when you do when you
67:41
remove all of that
67:44
all of that imposed hierarchy and
67:47
centralization
67:48
and when now the monetary policy isn’t
67:52
being decided by a handful of
67:54
central bankers and and appointed think
67:57
tank policy experts
67:58
who then are have to convince
68:00
politicians who are competing with each
68:02
other on on political posturing
68:03
to make a decision when now it is just
68:05
people who who have
68:07
a stake in fixing this specific issue
68:10
like you said
68:10
the the micro transactions and micro
68:13
financing
68:14
in places like uh you know uh
68:16
sub-saharan africa
68:17
uh very impoverished parts of latin
68:19
america uh
68:20
impoverished parts of east asia
68:22
impoverished parts of the united states
68:24
for that matter
68:24
um people can just provide that solution
68:27
and they don’t have to wait for approval
68:29
they just
68:29
make it and if it works great and if it
68:31
doesn’t someone else can make something
68:32
even better in fact
68:33
it’s not just them making it it’s a
68:34
bunch of other people making their
68:36
competing versions too
68:37
and they’re cooperating versions as well
68:39
and it fixes problems that we don’t even
68:41
necessarily have to know even exist
68:43
because it’s already been dealt with by
68:44
the people that are directly involved in
68:45
that and the providers who sought to
68:47
help them so it’s
68:48
it is an incredible incredible thing to
68:50
me um and the reality is like network
68:53
fees
68:54
there’s anywhere from three to five
68:55
percent network fee right now to use our
68:57
existing system
68:58
and and for many of these it is market
69:00
like cardano i mean it’s it’s
69:02
it’s a it’s a it’s not even a nuisance
69:04
fee it’s a you don’t even feel
69:06
that the amount that’s being taken out
69:07
of it for the transaction so that’s
69:09
that’s incredible the fiat on ramp that
69:12
pretty much gets dealt with once people
69:13
aren’t using fiat anymore right
69:16
yeah the fiat on ramp is is the problem
69:18
that i don’t have a solution to right
69:19
not right now anyways right
69:21
um that’s the real issue with you know
69:23
policy makers and things like this is
69:24
that’s that’s the thing that you can
69:25
affect
69:26
right is you can affect how people get
69:28
their cash into this
69:29
system now the only thing that it
69:31
doesn’t do is it doesn’t you know
69:32
prevent you from going peer-to-peer
69:34
all right there are a bunch of other
69:35
ways to get into this system too there’s
69:37
like
69:38
bitcoin atms google go to google maps
69:40
and google bitcoin atms i guarantee you
69:43
you’ll be shocked at how many bitcoin
69:44
atms
69:45
are anywhere near you at any given time
69:47
and the first sign to me
69:49
of bitcoin mainstream adoption honestly
69:51
and i told my wife and she even she was
69:53
like she
69:54
i have she’s been blue pill on bitcoin
69:56
for longer than
69:57
uh a lot of us but even she even she was
69:59
shocked to hear that you know
70:00
cvs’s and all of these major uh
70:03
walgreens
70:04
uh were putting bitcoin atms in all of
70:06
their stores
70:07
yeah by the end of 2021 i think that
70:09
news came out early last year
70:10
as they were like yep we’re doing it i
70:12
was like she was like what they’re just
70:13
gonna put bitcoin atms and you can buy
70:15
bitcoin or get cash out
70:17
from bitcoin and a select few other
70:18
cryptocurrencies just from an
70:20
atm at a walgreens yep sure can
70:23
only limitation obviously is whatever
70:25
the fees are which probably are probably
70:26
not the best for fees
70:28
but i bet it’s comparable to uh cash
70:30
atms and i bet it’s comparable to using
70:32
a credit card
70:33
or a debit card that this is where it
70:36
gets really really interesting folks
70:38
because
70:39
if the only real limitation left is fiat
70:43
then that means fiat’s the problem
70:47
oh the way you think about everything
70:48
though right yeah like uh people have
70:50
asked me
70:51
you know some of these um interest
70:53
producing centralized and decentralized
70:55
finance
70:56
solutions right your aves your celsius
70:58
your block fi
70:59
you know a lot of people when when i
71:01
start talking about bitcoin and some of
71:02
the other things
71:02
yeah but what about this stuff how do
71:04
they make how do they pay you seven
71:05
percent interest
71:07
for just putting your coins there right
71:09
or putting your value there whatever it
71:10
is how do they do that you’re like well
71:11
how does a bank
71:12
make money how does a bank take your
71:15
take your dollars
71:16
and make and make money on it they’re
71:17
like well and there and i was like and
71:19
not only that but do they pay you any
71:21
money for it
71:22
you know because they used to right in
71:24
the 60s and 70s you used to make
71:26
two or three percent on that value
71:27
because the banks knew that
71:29
you knew and the banks knew it had
71:30
intrinsic value they could take your
71:32
money and loan it out for higher value
71:33
they said
71:34
we’ll give you some value for it they
71:35
just stopped right the centralization of
71:38
this infrastructure
71:39
just stopped working for people and then
71:41
when you start making it work for people
71:42
again everyone goes whoa
71:44
this is what it’s supposed to be like
71:46
this is what my value
71:47
should be making for me because it’s my
71:50
value and if people are using it
71:52
to loan out or to you know make markets
71:56
with
71:56
then i should be getting a a
71:58
compensation
71:59
for the value that i am placing in that
72:01
market then i should
72:03
right and now you see exactly
72:04
infrastructures that are rewarding you
72:06
for that
72:06
and people are gravitating towards them
72:08
once you understand a lot of the
72:10
infrastructure at least
72:11
right there are some nuance here but
72:12
once you understand some of the stuff
72:13
you go wait
72:15
why is why isn’t my life like this
72:16
already
72:18
the fact whatever however much wealth
72:21
you have in a bank right now is being
72:23
leveraged to make money for other people
72:26
and you might be getting 0.2 percent
72:30
back for that maybe
72:33
when and your money is losing way more
72:37
value
72:38
during that time so by having your money
72:40
sit there
72:41
instead of in like a stock or something
72:42
else where it hopefully gains a little
72:44
bit more
72:44
uh you’re you’re you’re you’re
72:47
guaranteeing a slow
72:48
death of the value of your money whereas
72:50
in in a blockchain environment
72:52
not only does the crypt the money the
72:55
currency whatever you want to call it
72:56
your coins
72:56
or even tokens that you’re using not
72:58
only do they gain
73:00
or at least retain their value and
73:01
intrinsically because of
73:03
more and more money entering this more
73:05
and more value entering this
73:06
this sector but you also could
73:08
potentially gain in terms of the
73:10
the amount of that thing that you have
73:12
because other people would love for you
73:14
to stake it with them so they can use it
73:15
and grow it and give you some of it too
73:17
it’s it’s it’s and because it’s not a
73:19
centralized system anymore and because
73:21
there’s so many different competing
73:22
systems
73:23
there’s a vest they have a vested
73:24
interest i say this all the time
73:26
get government out of money and give it
73:28
to the free market
73:29
and or have the free market pry it from
73:33
government by being so much better which
73:34
is really what’s happening right now
73:37
and eventually instead of get having a
73:38
monopoly decide what your money’s worth
73:40
which means they can play with it
73:41
however they want to
73:42
they it’s now being decided by people
73:44
who know you don’t have to use them you
73:46
can use someone else
73:47
you don’t have to use ethereum ethereum
73:48
will have to fix this problem
73:50
with the transaction fees because if
73:52
they don’t
73:54
they’ll lose business to other emerging
73:57
uh or even existing competitors like
73:59
cardano or even like bitcoin
74:01
uh so they will have to fix that we we
74:04
don’t have to wait for a government to
74:05
force them to fix this unfair thing for
74:07
mike
74:08
they’ll have to or else they’re going to
74:09
lose out on that entire market or
74:11
they’ll decide you know what we don’t
74:12
care about that market you guys can
74:13
provide that market we’re going to be
74:14
the big transaction market providers
74:16
okay that’s their decision to make but
74:20
as long as there is a need uh it will uh
74:23
it will be provided um someone uh
74:26
i saw it before in the comments uh we’ve
74:28
had quite a few uh someone was talking
74:30
about
74:30
uh you know the fact that you know what
74:32
if government tries to
74:34
you know quote unquote take this over
74:35
there is really no taking this
74:37
over that’s that’s the beauty of the
74:39
blockchain is that it is so
74:41
decentralized that you there’s no take
74:45
as long as a as long as i can have a
74:47
version of a hard wallet on a device
74:50
you can’t take it over there there is no
74:52
way to take it over can can you just
74:54
briefly talk about why no organization
74:56
can take over
74:57
the blockchain or a blockchain yeah so
75:00
let’s let’s start with
75:01
if they could have taken it over they
75:03
would have already
75:04
right yes and so that’s the first the
75:06
first thing and that doesn’t prove
75:07
anything but it’s a really great
75:08
starting point
75:09
right and think about something else
75:10
that type that tried to decentralize you
75:12
know infrastructures and didn’t do it
75:13
correctly
75:14
like a napster right that was shut down
75:17
and
75:17
and effectively stopped by government
75:19
and entities right because what did they
75:20
do they had centralized servers
75:23
distributing this infrastructure uh or
75:25
you know they had
75:26
groups of people that were acting as
75:27
centralized servers and they shut these
75:29
things down
75:30
another example would be yep oh yeah no
75:33
i said yeah no i said yes i said i’m
75:35
agreeing with you go ahead
75:36
another great example would be you know
75:38
uh video game currencies
75:39
there have been examples uh over time
75:42
where video game currencies started
75:43
being used as
75:45
a pseudo value exchange right
75:48
and government stepped in and said whoa
75:50
whoa whoa you’re not doing this right
75:52
because what do they have they had
75:53
servers that were acting as
75:55
ledgers to distribute this value right
75:58
and so the government stepped in
75:59
in the in the european union in the
76:01
united states and they said no
76:02
those are ours same thing with like
76:04
email servers and stuff like this if
76:05
they don’t like what you have
76:06
they confiscate these things okay
76:08
confiscate bitcoin servers
76:11
they don’t exist there are no servers
76:13
anywhere
76:14
it’s a decentralized ledger there is
76:17
nothing to confiscate
76:18
right then he said okay well what if
76:20
they shut down mining
76:22
okay if you shut down mining in the
76:23
united states you’ve effectively
76:25
shut yourself off from the largest
76:26
transaction one of the largest
76:28
transactional networks on the planet
76:29
right
76:30
what you’re going to do is set yourself
76:31
back the the two countries that come to
76:33
mind that could do this
76:35
that it would be really tough to like
76:37
wrap your head around
76:38
the us and china right right even then
76:40
what they’re doing is they’re stifling
76:42
their own growth
76:43
and the competing forces between the us
76:44
and china would say well i’m not going
76:46
to stifle my growth if they’re not going
76:47
to stifle their own their own
76:48
technological growth in this space
76:50
so there you go we’ve already we’ve just
76:51
disproven the entire thing
76:53
and even gone out to the nth degree that
76:55
one of the two competing superpowers
76:57
decides to do it and they wouldn’t do it
76:58
either
76:59
so you’re just there’s just no way you
77:02
disproved it from the beginning if they
77:03
were gonna do it they if they could do
77:05
it it would have already happened
77:06
long back would have been it would have
77:07
been way easier to do it ain’t happening
77:10
it’s not it’s not happening and what’s
77:11
interesting is the reason they didn’t do
77:12
it earlier was because it wasn’t worth
77:14
enough for them to do
77:15
now that it is it’s too late it’s that
77:17
that’s the beauty of blockchain
77:18
the reason it can’t be defrauded or
77:20
taken over is because when it’s easy
77:22
enough to do it’s not worth it what
77:23
it’s a dollar i’m gonna get a dollar for
77:25
all this effort to do no you know back
77:27
when you know what was it ten thousand
77:29
ten thousand bitcoin were traded for a
77:31
pizza or whatever what was the point of
77:33
taking the plot it’s it’s worth nothing
77:34
it’s worth 50 bucks or whatever
77:36
now it’s worth it and it’s like well now
77:38
we can’t it’s too big and too involved
77:40
to do it
77:40
it’s it’s an incredible incredible
77:42
technology so
77:43
the last thing i want to talk about you
77:45
are you know
77:46
your background and you are a cyber
77:49
security expert
77:50
now there are some a lot of security and
77:52
privacy implications to all of this
77:55
we are talking about moving into a
77:56
completely new way
77:58
of everything i i don’t think i can
78:01
overstate and i know people are thinking
78:03
yeah yeah money
78:05
everything insurance
78:08
arbitration physical infrastructure
78:12
communication travel
78:15
supply chain every single thing
78:19
that it takes to have a functional
78:22
society
78:23
and things that we don’t even know
78:24
things that we don’t even talk about yet
78:26
because there hasn’t been the technology
78:28
to be able to do it
78:29
all the things that we do now as well as
78:31
things that don’t even exist yet
78:33
will be able will be done through this
78:35
if this changes
78:36
everything how do we move into this
78:38
completely new
78:40
restructurization of society while still
78:43
protecting individual privacy and
78:46
security
78:48
yeah so security is my my major focus
78:51
and the thing that i think i
78:52
you know we can talk about to secure the
78:54
most right privacy is a little bit more
78:55
ephemeral because
78:56
you know you see that some of these
78:58
privacy coins are being you know
79:00
ostracized and even some of the privacy
79:02
solutions like washing coins and things
79:03
like this
79:04
are difficult to do and uh you know are
79:07
oftentimes associated with
79:08
you know at least governmentally
79:09
associated like malicious intent and
79:11
stuff like that so
79:11
i’ll leave privacy for a second and
79:13
we’ll come back okay okay security is
79:15
security is really important right
79:16
because if we don’t get this right
79:18
then it’s gonna be a huge detractor for
79:21
the majority of bitcoin or this
79:24
infrastructure’s life right
79:25
and the classic example is you know a
79:27
lot of people who have
79:29
seen a debate or something like this
79:30
have heard of mount gox right mtg
79:33
yes which was a giant cryptocurrency
79:35
exchange hack
79:36
right and so if you don’t get these
79:38
things right then you have these type of
79:40
events and it detracts from
79:42
your main purpose which is to
79:44
democratize this stuff right
79:45
and mount gox for example example right
79:47
stands for magic the gathering online
79:50
exchange right these guys weren’t trying
79:51
to build a cryptocurrency exchange at
79:53
the time
79:54
they were trying to trade magic cards
79:56
right and so
79:57
like it makes sense that it didn’t work
79:59
out it didn’t really pan out for them
80:02
i didn’t know that i didn’t i didn’t
80:03
know that
80:05
so so that’s the the centralized part
80:10
that’s a centralized part right which is
80:12
which we have to get right
80:13
and and they are doing that well i think
80:15
with you know the wink of austin gemini
80:17
and some of these on fiat on ramps and
80:19
and the code review for the defy and
80:21
these types of things so
80:22
that’s on the technologists and i think
80:24
that you know
80:25
that that is being addressed and i think
80:28
i think that the technologists have an
80:30
understanding of the fact that
80:32
you know if we don’t get this right at
80:34
least somewhat to start there’s going to
80:35
be a problem
80:36
the second part is the general public
80:37
right and so the second part is how do
80:39
you
80:40
secure your stuff and what does security
80:42
mean for you from a value perspective
80:44
right
80:44
and so how you know how you secure your
80:47
actual
80:48
value now right is you have some actual
80:51
money in a wallet
80:52
right you have some money in a bank
80:54
right and you have some money in a
80:56
savings account and a lock box that’s
80:58
even harder to get to
80:59
right so you actually do have tiers of
81:01
security now people don’t think of it
81:02
again because we’re ingrained in this
81:04
society
81:05
and so when people ask me about things
81:07
like wallets like what is a bitcoin
81:09
wallet
81:09
you know what is this bitcoin wallet i
81:11
have online and why is it called
81:12
a hot wallet you’re like it’s a hot
81:14
wallet it’s just like your wallet that
81:16
you carry with you right
81:17
it’s much easier to steal your dollars
81:19
when you carry it with you everywhere
81:21
and you’re out in public with it
81:22
right then it would be if you kept those
81:24
dollars in a safe
81:25
in your basement somewhere right and so
81:28
we have to understand security we have
81:31
to understand this
81:32
from uh you know an individual
81:33
perspective because if you’re going to
81:35
democratize this to everybody then
81:36
everybody has to know it to some extent
81:38
right
81:38
and so there’s a couple of terms here
81:40
there’s hot wallets and cold wallets and
81:42
so hot wallets are those that sit online
81:44
connected to the internet
81:45
those are like your actual physical
81:46
wallets you carry with you you should
81:48
keep
81:48
enough value in there that if you lost
81:50
all of that value it wouldn’t
81:52
it wouldn’t end your life now there are
81:54
times when you keep a lot of money in
81:55
your wallet
81:56
right sometimes you walk around with
81:57
four thousand dollars to buy a jet ski
81:59
right so sometimes you do keep a lot of
82:01
money on you and it makes you
82:02
uncomfortable
82:03
perhaps unless you’re bill gates and you
82:05
don’t care about all that money and yet
82:07
but anyway right
82:08
right right right but in general right
82:10
you don’t want to keep all of that money
82:11
on you at all times
82:13
and so what you do is you keep them in
82:14
cold storage wallets right those are
82:16
wallets that are offline
82:18
that are hardware wallets where’s i have
82:19
an example here i’ve got a couple
82:21
actually
82:22
right i’ve got uh i’ve got this bad boy
82:24
right here uh this bad boy right here
82:26
so these are hardware wallets right
82:28
they’re not connected to anything
82:30
and they hold private keys that hold
82:32
value right
82:33
and so these are these are cryptographic
82:35
solutions right
82:36
that are built into the hardware that
82:38
hold on to the keys
82:40
that secure that value that goes back to
82:42
that public private key
82:43
infrastructure so the public key to
82:45
these is known to everybody you can go
82:47
look up the ethereum public key that’s
82:48
associated with this and see how much
82:50
value is on this thing
82:51
from an ethereum perspective right right
82:53
but the private key is held right here
82:55
and literally you could not get the
82:57
value from
82:58
this this pub the public ledger you
83:00
couldn’t change
83:01
send it anywhere without this key that’s
83:03
connected to nothing
83:05
right and so that’s known as a cold
83:07
storage wallet
83:08
right and these are other this is a more
83:10
secure way to store your bitcoin
83:12
there’s one other thing that you
83:13
probably want to know about and that’s
83:15
called
83:16
multi-sig or multi-signature right and
83:19
so that’s
83:19
the same way as if you were to access a
83:22
trust or something like this
83:23
for a minor or for it doesn’t have to be
83:25
a minor in this case but
83:26
the good example is right two people
83:28
need to sign off on that person getting
83:30
that value right
83:31
and so it’s a very similar process to
83:33
that where you have to have multiple
83:34
private keys
83:35
sign the transaction right so one would
83:37
be a hot wallet one would be your cold
83:39
wallet and one would be stored with a
83:40
custodian
83:41
right my class the classic example that
83:43
comes up to me is casa hodl
83:45
is a company that does this they do
83:46
multi-sig usually for higher value stuff
83:49
right and so it’s
83:53
yeah yeah go ahead go ahead no no i was
83:54
just saying that’s cool
83:56
so it’s a you know and and then you say
83:58
okay well travis this sounds
83:59
you know technologically complex and
84:01
it’s kind of
84:02
you know it’s annoying to learn this new
84:04
stuff right and what what’s happening is
84:06
right we are
84:07
simplifying the process and trying to
84:09
streamline the security
84:10
while giving you that ease of
84:12
functionality right and so you have
84:14
these
84:14
hot wallets that are easier to use right
84:16
your coinbase hot wallet your coinbase
84:18
wallet which is different than the
84:19
exchange people don’t know this but
84:21
coinbase is an exchange where you can
84:23
trade coins and stuff they have a wallet
84:25
that is a phone app that you can hold
84:27
tokens on and you can hold bitcoin on
84:29
and you can send it to someone if you
84:31
want it to right
84:32
those are two different things and so uh
84:35
cash app has one of these a hot wallet
84:37
right that has a public address you can
84:39
send to it and you can send from it
84:41
and so we are we are streamlining this
84:43
process we did this with the internet
84:45
right
84:46
we at first everything was sent in clear
84:48
text with http
84:49
and if you saw the transmission you
84:51
could see what was happening this is why
84:53
we couldn’t send credit cards why they
84:54
told you not to put any private
84:56
information on the internet anymore at
84:57
all
84:58
right and then they streamlined that
84:59
security process and made it better and
85:01
easier and now you can click a button on
85:03
amazon
85:04
and get the product to your house and
85:05
have the value pulled out of your bank
85:06
account right
85:07
give give the technologist some time and
85:09
this will be the standard it will be
85:11
easy
85:12
for you if you want to do it ahead of
85:14
time and gain an
85:15
early mover advantage and an
85:17
understanding as this is being developed
85:19
then then participate in the
85:20
infrastructure right go on and make
85:22
yourself a coinbase
85:24
account or whatever it is you want to do
85:25
buy a piece of digital art
85:27
right with ethereum and have have your
85:29
own one-off
85:30
nft and non-fungible token right do
85:32
something in the space
85:34
when it’s you know when it’s not a
85:36
ubiquitously adopted technology yet
85:39
it’s incredible and and like you said
85:41
the
85:43
it’s already arguably more secure than
85:45
the current system that we have in place
85:47
which is why they have
85:48
fdic because
85:52
defrauding happens all the time
85:55
robbery robbing banks happens all the
85:57
time
85:58
uh uh uh what’s word i’m looking for
86:02
counterfeiting are you kidding me uh
86:06
uh there was something i read i forget
86:07
that the number but like double digit
86:09
num percentages of 20 bills
86:12
are that are in circulation right now
86:14
are expected to be fraudulent
86:17
um so i mean that’s that’s beyond any
86:20
any kind of of level of
86:22
of uh hacking or or defrauding or
86:25
anything like that we’ve seen
86:26
in crypto and almost all of that that’s
86:29
happened has been in those centralized
86:32
exchanges that like you i didn’t know it
86:33
was magic the gathering but
86:35
they literally created it for something
86:36
else it then grew into this other thing
86:38
they didn’t have
86:39
anywhere near the security in place that
86:41
they needed to
86:42
and so they got exposed and hacked but
86:45
that was on that centralized system
86:47
as the technology grows and i love that
86:50
you use the internet as an example a lot
86:51
of people don’t remember in their mid
86:52
90s they were like do not
86:54
put your credit card on this thing there
86:56
is no real way to protect it
86:58
but then all the encryption stuff came
87:00
out we’re up to what 256-bit encryption
87:02
now
87:03
um you know that’s and and i’m sure
87:05
we’ll be at 512 and and
87:07
probably already are at this point you
87:08
know that’s happening
87:10
in in in this space as well so it will
87:12
get safer and safer and more and more
87:14
secure
87:15
the comparison i like to use and this is
87:17
a whole other rabbit hole
87:18
is hearing aids and this isn’t about
87:21
security it’s about
87:22
improvement when hearing aids first came
87:24
out
87:27
you only use them in the worst case
87:28
scenarios because they didn’t sound good
87:31
they often were you know they were like
87:34
popping and clicking sounds that they
87:35
made and things like that
87:36
and it was really like if you were if it
87:39
was either this or be
87:40
deaf use this but it’s not going to be a
87:42
pleasant experience
87:43
hearing aids are now where they’re
87:44
actually more sensitive than your
87:46
current hearing they actually work
87:47
better than you’re hearing
87:49
and in a few more years more and more
87:50
people will wear things that are very
87:52
small
87:53
and like hearing aids so that they can
87:54
have superhuman hearing
87:56
uh and that’s gonna happen you know
87:58
they’re just beginning the process of
87:59
replacing the eyes for people that are
88:02
blind and right now they can see like
88:03
very weak shapes and
88:05
and lights and stuff like that that will
88:07
eventually reach a point where people
88:08
will choose to have a little thing right
88:09
here
88:10
so they can see beside behind themselves
88:12
and see and infrared and everything
88:14
else as the technology improves it
88:16
actually replaces
88:18
and isn’t is better than and and and
88:20
immeasurably better than
88:22
what’s already in place um and so yeah i
88:24
only expect that to get to get better
88:27
i also think privacy is something that
88:31
now some people want to have personal
88:32
privacy of like their personal affairs
88:34
and things like that
88:35
but privacy when it comes to money often
88:38
is more about
88:39
protection it’s a secondary security
88:41
thing if you don’t know i have the money
88:44
then you can’t take it but if we have a
88:46
blockchain that is so secure that i can
88:48
be like hey listen i got all
88:50
i have a bazillion trillion bitcoin and
88:52
there’s nothing you can do to take it
88:54
from me
88:55
then now it doesn’t the privacy becomes
88:56
a lesser concern right like if it
88:58
if it’s so secure that it doesn’t matter
89:00
that you know i have it
89:02
then ultimately the privacy becomes a
89:05
lesser concern if the security is better
89:06
right
89:07
yep it does uh you know there’s always
89:09
the old wrench attack
89:11
right where you could hit over the head
89:12
with a wrench but
89:14
other than that right yeah i mean that’s
89:16
the one that’s the one thing right
89:18
yeah you pointed out though right if you
89:19
don’t know i have it we call this
89:21
security
89:21
through obscurity right and it’s really
89:23
not a security tenant it’s not a
89:25
security tenant in the cyber security
89:26
space
89:27
it’s not a security tenant in the
89:28
monetary space right you’d much rather
89:30
have
89:30
a an immensely secure infrastructure to
89:33
hold on to your value
89:34
and everyone know that you had the value
89:36
then a very weakly secured
89:38
infrastructure and hope that people
89:39
didn’t know you had that value right
89:41
right exactly someone mentioned in here
89:44
that you know
89:45
even if government can’t take something
89:46
over they can try to
89:48
and that’s absolutely uh that’s
89:49
absolutely the case
89:51
um in the case of crypto
89:54
and blockchain i still say that this
89:58
is it’s the equivalent of me if i say so
90:00
like you were on my friend
90:02
uh derek uh derek’s show on derek
90:04
britton show
90:05
i may say to you i don’t like that
90:08
you’re on derek’s show
90:09
you have to choose right now either you
90:11
go on derek’s show or you go on my show
90:13
from now on you can either be my friend
90:14
or his friend
90:15
and you can’t do it you might choose
90:19
him what if you like him better
90:21
hypothetically what if you like him
90:22
better and you want to be on his show
90:23
i just alienated myself if i say to you
90:26
you’re not allowed to do that you can’t
90:28
go on derek’s show and you go i’m going
90:30
to go on it anyway
90:31
then you do and i can’t possibly
90:34
control your life enough to keep you
90:37
from
90:37
talking to derek applying this to
90:40
government if these systems are better
90:42
than anything government can do
90:43
and we’re largely continuing to
90:45
cooperate with government
90:47
because it’s it’s just easier for us to
90:50
to cooperate with government
90:51
than not to but then they cut us off
90:54
from something that is way better than
90:56
them
90:56
a lot maybe not all of us but a large
90:58
number of people are going to be like
90:59
okay i’ll just take my chances with them
91:01
and and just not participate in you at
91:02
all and just completely opt out
91:04
and if they speed along that process uh
91:07
derek says in the comments of course
91:08
travis likes me more
91:10
we’ll find out right now no um uh
91:13
go go ahead sorry travis you do have
91:15
more followers so
91:16
you know i don’t know
91:20
i’ve known him derrick is an amazing guy
91:23
listen you should choose derek he’s a
91:24
much better guy than i
91:25
am since i’m always three years old i’m
91:27
gonna go i’m gonna i’m just gonna go to
91:28
you
91:29
immediately that’s that’s i was going to
91:30
say my [ __ ] my show’s been around three
91:32
years his has been around for like 12
91:34
seconds and he’s already got to go you
91:35
may not want to bet on on me having more
91:37
followers because he’s
91:38
i think he has the better growth pattern
91:40
but go but go ahead the
91:41
the analog i like is if you’re scared of
91:44
the government taking your
91:45
your bitcoin or cryptocurrency right
91:46
it’s much harder for them to take that
91:48
than it is for them to take your house
91:50
so if you’re if you’re concerned about
91:52
them taking your bitcoin you should
91:53
probably be concerned about the
91:54
government coming and taking some other
91:55
asset of yours
91:57
your money all your money yeah yeah your
91:59
money is even yeah right
92:01
i mean you’re that’s the thing right and
92:03
we see this over and over in societies
92:05
that don’t understand
92:07
that don’t that don’t have as a great
92:09
monetary infrastructure as we do right
92:11
now that it’s great but
92:12
not as uh sustainable right lebanon
92:16
your venezuela your brazil your
92:18
argentina
92:19
right when you see hyper inflation or
92:21
rapid inflation like you see in lebanon
92:23
what’s the first thing that you see
92:25
you see people moving from that currency
92:27
to digital currencies immediately
92:29
well they try to move to dollars but
92:31
lebanon for example won’t allow you to
92:32
move to dollars so then they go to
92:34
cryptocurrency right
92:35
right right yeah it just it fixes all
92:38
these problems
92:39
but it also is just there’s no effective
92:42
way other than again going back to the
92:43
what if they turn off the internet okay
92:44
great then they’ll destroy themselves in
92:46
the proc
92:47
the only way you can effectively tell
92:48
everyone they can’t use crypto is to
92:50
shut off the internet
92:51
can you imagine what would happen to the
92:52
u.s economic system if they shut the
92:54
internet out it would cry it would be
92:55
nothing
92:56
it would completely crumble uh and the
92:58
government would suffer
92:59
horribly because like i mean it’s just
93:02
the ways to do it aren’t really
93:04
effective and anything they try to do to
93:05
do that will simply hasten along their
93:07
own demise
93:08
and i will say their demise i believe
93:10
that crypto and i i’m you don’t have to
93:12
agree with me on this this is my opinion
93:14
i believe that blockchain will
93:15
eventually allow us to simply opt out of
93:18
government so much
93:19
that that we’ll say yeah no we don’t
93:21
need the courts we’ll use this
93:22
arbitration system it’s way better and
93:23
more equitable
93:24
and is proven to work better yeah no we
93:26
don’t need your
93:27
you know your financial system this
93:29
one’s way better yeah no we don’t really
93:31
need anything you’re doing we don’t need
93:32
your
93:33
your welfare system our our our
93:35
blockchain mutual aid works a thousand
93:37
times better and is far more equitable
93:39
and we aren’t robbing anyone in the
93:40
process
93:41
you know there’s it will be able to come
93:43
up with such such better solutions
93:44
because it’s essentially
93:45
and this is me this is my interco
93:47
capitalism coming in this is the market
93:49
this is just the pure
93:51
market uh that is you know being derived
93:54
from
93:55
need or or or basically supply
93:59
assigned to demand and and and creating
94:02
new markets as a result of it i i could
94:04
i could do this all day long i love it
94:05
it’s the way you talk about it though it
94:07
creeps me out because i start going down
94:08
the rabbit hole too and i’m not
94:10
and i’m and i’m not of the same ilk as
94:12
you in terms of
94:13
you know your staunch political belief
94:15
like in that way
94:16
and it still it and it creeps me some
94:18
someone who’s like relatively moderate
94:20
right where i’m like okay so
94:21
so the government’s printing dollars to
94:24
fund stuff right
94:25
i don’t want dollars and they’re trying
94:28
to
94:28
tell me that i need more dollars and
94:30
every dollar i have is trying to get out
94:32
of dollars
94:33
so where does the dollar go and then
94:35
where does that leave my government
94:36
right it’s it’s creepy right and then
94:38
you start thinking about some of the
94:39
other things about how the dollar worked
94:41
to disenfranchise people right
94:43
you’re working four dollars and every
94:45
hour that you worked is worth 40 percent
94:47
less every two decades right
94:49
and so what you’re doing is you’re
94:50
sitting on the backs of people who are
94:52
getting their time denominated in
94:53
dollars
94:54
and you’re eating their time right by by
94:56
devaluing the currency and so people who
94:58
have things that aren’t dollars right
95:00
like businesses like uh like uh
95:04
real estate like gold whatever it is
95:06
that isn’t denominated in dollars
95:08
are flourishing at an exponential rate
95:10
now as we did not as we
95:11
devalue the dollar right and the people
95:13
who aren’t are being crushed right
95:15
that’s what they and that’s part of this
95:17
you know k-shape recovery and all these
95:18
other things right but it’s it’s scary
95:20
and spooky
95:21
and it’s just and it’s only being you
95:23
know clearly illustrated it’s it’s
95:25
clearly being illustrated here
95:27
i think it is this is anarchy
95:30
whether people like it or not this is it
95:32
is an
95:33
absent of of imposed hierarchy system
95:38
that is a definition of anarchy this is
95:40
people whose
95:41
position it is based entirely on their
95:43
merit the stake that they have
95:45
how much they’re participating how much
95:47
value they’re providing to others
95:48
this is this is anarchy
95:52
i know it’s scary if you’re not an
95:53
anarchist but this is literally anarchy
95:55
and it’s why it’s better than that’s we
95:57
can go into a whole thing on there
95:59
but but the reality is that this is
96:02
and and and you know when when
96:04
government
96:05
the if the like i said before if the
96:07
biggest problem
96:08
is related to well but what’s government
96:11
going to do
96:12
and well but how do i get my money out
96:13
of my my store of value out of this
96:16
diminishing
96:17
this you know increasingly valueless
96:20
fiat
96:21
that’s a condemnation of that system
96:24
that that’s the
96:25
the weakest link here and uh yeah no
96:27
it’s it’s it’s incredible
96:29
it is spooky if you if you believe we
96:31
need a government
96:32
as someone who doesn’t believe we do and
96:34
who thinks that that’s an art of
96:35
artificial imposition that’s been
96:36
imposed upon us this
96:38
is it’s almost like increasingly
96:41
it won’t be the political process it’ll
96:43
simply just be the reality
96:45
that this works so much better and
96:48
there’s nothing
96:49
in the past anarchistic solutions could
96:52
be stopped
96:52
a mutual aid society could be stopped by
96:55
people coming in and physically making
96:56
them not do it anymore
96:58
when it’s in this kind of system
97:01
you can’t stop it and not only can you
97:03
not stop it you don’t have to be a why
97:05
you’re not an anarchist you’re a
97:06
political moderate most of the people
97:08
involved in this are not necessarily
97:10
political anarchists
97:11
they’re just doing it because it makes
97:12
the most sense so you don’t have to be a
97:15
wild-eyed anarchist anymore to
97:16
participate in this what is essentially
97:18
counter economics this this this this
97:21
growing exponential agarism that’s
97:23
happening
97:24
you don’t have to be all about that to
97:27
be a part of it you just have to
97:28
be a part of this thing happening it is
97:31
incredible to me
97:31
it it certainly can be scary but as
97:34
someone
97:35
uh who you know who has been waiting for
97:37
this to happen for quite some time
97:39
it it it’s a pretty exciting thing and
97:41
and and the beauty of it happening is
97:43
it’s happening gradually so that
97:45
you know people aren’t waking up one day
97:47
and going oh my gosh everything is
97:49
weird and looks different from how it it
97:51
just like the internet took
97:53
years to go from you know
97:55
[Music]
97:56
and then you get to talk to someone to
97:59
us doing this type of thing and then all
98:00
the new stuff that’s going to be down
98:02
the road for the internet um that’s how
98:04
it’s going to be with blockchain too so
98:06
i think it’s
98:06
i think it’s absolutely incredible and
98:08
you you look scared and i’m sorry
98:10
yeah the more the more you know the
98:11
thing that really just drives it home
98:13
for me and why i like doing these things
98:14
i did your podcast and derricks and
98:16
whatnot right
98:17
is it just seems like the more you know
98:18
the more sense it makes right you don’t
98:20
have to be
98:21
a cryptographic expert now especially
98:23
right to start going okay
98:25
i mean yeah i’d rather have this stuff
98:27
right
98:28
and the to your point about the
98:29
evolution of the internet um if you ever
98:31
looked at technology adoption curves
98:32
over the last like 100 years
98:33
right the curves just start going
98:35
quicker and quicker and quicker
98:37
right so it’s a bell curve it goes like
98:39
that and the adoption of you know cars
98:42
right took
98:42
40 years the adoption of the telephone
98:45
took 25
98:46
the adoption of the internet took nine
98:48
right the adoption of cryptocurrency
98:50
and i’m you know over generalizing but i
98:52
mean it’s going to be
98:54
much more immediate than you would have
98:56
ever thought as a result of just the way
98:58
the technology is developing right
99:00
it’s it’s just it just is the way a new
99:02
technology comes and it is it is adopted
99:05
exponentially more quickly and that’s a
99:06
that’s exponential there is
99:08
is an actual you know exponent yeah yeah
99:11
it is adopted exponentially more quickly
99:13
and i’m a stickler for that too by the
99:14
way with my background of research
99:16
i can’t say my people oh i’m sure you
99:17
are and don’t and use term
99:19
use mathematics terms incorrectly people
99:22
will say
99:22
exponentially to describe something that
99:24
has increased by 50
99:25
and i’m like stop doing that and they’re
99:28
like or even for something that
99:29
increased 500 i’m like if it’s not at
99:31
least a thousand percent then it’s not
99:33
increment it’s not
99:34
exponential there has to be an order of
99:37
magnitude involved either up or down
99:38
like you cannot
99:40
stop saying expo now if something went
99:41
down by 90 that is exponential but if
99:43
something went down by 80 percent stop
99:45
saying exponential
99:46
anyway that’s it it has a slope yes
99:49
that’s that’s not a
99:50
it has a slope if it’s not doing this
99:52
it’s not exponential
99:53
so uh it’s it’s it’s incredible so
99:56
uh matthew stiltner said you know now uh
99:59
sharon in africa bob and liberia and
100:01
frank in the u.s have equal value to the
100:03
system they support
100:04
if they provide the same service so we
100:05
created more worldwide value of people
100:07
through the decentralization of money
100:09
now africa is no longer a value base
100:11
that is point zero zero zero zero one
100:13
percent of the us dollar based on the
100:15
fact that someone else
100:16
attached those values to that person
100:17
based on current currency transfer
100:19
exactly
100:21
exactly this we talk about
100:24
egalitarianism
100:25
uh i don’t use the term democratization
100:28
because it implies
100:30
a a a win-lose
100:34
style system in a in a system of
100:36
governance
100:37
if i can get 51 of people to
100:40
sign up to something the other 49 are
100:42
disenfranchised as a result
100:43
but this we can use democratize or
100:46
decentralizes
100:47
everything and it’s it’s it’s incredible
100:49
so i we could we can do this
100:51
it’s a long way and you can become more
100:52
and more scared as we talk and i hate to
100:54
see because you’re just sitting there
100:55
like
100:56
yeah i’m coming around man we gotta i
100:58
gotta listen to a couple more of these
101:00
things
101:01
watch my shows i listen you’ll be in
101:02
anarchy my my the the co-owner of muddy
101:05
waters media
101:06
was a constitutionalist minikis when i
101:08
met him he’s now an anarchist
101:09
most the people on my team when i met
101:11
him were bernie bros and and yang
101:13
gangers
101:13
and uh and and uh and other types of
101:16
liberty leaning people they’re now all
101:17
aner because i make people an anarchist
101:19
that’s my job that’s
101:20
that’s that’s my job is i lived in
101:22
democratic socialism in sweden for two
101:24
years so
101:24
i liked it it was a nice place hey
101:27
listen
101:28
a system whereby democratic socialism is
101:31
a decentralization compared to our
101:33
system
101:34
which is why some of the things are
101:36
fairer and more equitable
101:37
also they don’t have a worldwide
101:39
imperialist system that’s built on the
101:41
built on mass murder or a internal
101:43
system that’s built on
101:45
uh enslaving people uh for the benefit
101:47
of of uh you know uh private prisons and
101:49
free labor contractors but but same
101:52
thing that you know
101:53
we have you know for all of our talk
101:55
about land of the free home of the brave
101:56
we’re one of the most centralized
101:57
systems out there
101:58
compared with the exceptions of maybe
102:00
like a china or a venezuela
102:02
or a uh a zimbabwe and you see what’s
102:04
happening in those countries even in
102:06
china
102:07
if you want to start a business it’s
102:08
actually easier there than here
102:10
um and and and that’s why they’re
102:12
they’re they’re having their upswing
102:13
they are
102:14
but then socially they’re very repressed
102:16
and that’s why they have the social
102:17
issues they have
102:18
repression and centralization equals
102:20
stagnation
102:22
and and and problems as a result the
102:24
abusive and inequitable outcome
102:26
i’m anarchy killing you by the way but
102:27
uh you know that it leads to the more
102:29
you suppress something the more you
102:30
centralize it the more you control it
102:32
the more repressed and the more abused
102:35
and the more
102:36
neglected people are within that system
102:38
the more you decentralize it we’re
102:40
seeing that where we’re talking about
102:41
blockchain and crypto the more
102:43
decentralized it is
102:44
the more that power is disseminated out
102:47
based on merit and value as opposed to
102:50
imposed hierarchy
102:52
the fairer it is the less abuse there is
102:54
the less harm that there is
102:56
you know we could very well have a
102:58
health care system that is based on
102:59
blockchain
103:01
we could very well have a system
103:04
of residency and vetting that is based
103:08
on blockchain
103:09
instead of immigration protocols and
103:11
standards this can apply to
103:13
everything and be far more efficient and
103:16
be
103:17
far fairer and be far more equitable
103:19
because they’re being designed
103:20
in favor of and by the people that are
103:22
directly staked in that thing as opposed
103:24
to being imposed on it centrally
103:26
by someone who has no real stake in it
103:28
other than wanting to continue to
103:29
impose power on everyone else that’s the
103:32
beauty of this
103:33
i hope i haven’t scared you too much but
103:35
this estonia is doing the same thing
103:36
right estonia
103:37
they are going to be able to apply this
103:39
to blockchain right they are taking a
103:40
cryptographic chip and putting it in
103:42
each one of their uh
103:43
their you know their social ids and
103:45
their health care system is tied to that
103:47
cryptographic chip their health history
103:48
their social their social security
103:50
number their credit card or you know
103:51
whatever it is their credit score all
103:52
these things like
103:53
it’s tied to their cryptographic
103:54
signature okay so inside your
103:56
cryptographic signature why can’t it be
103:58
tied to some decentralized ledger
103:59
instead of their you know corp instead
104:01
of their governmental backbone right
104:02
and so now all of your all of your
104:04
health history all of your credit score
104:05
all of your other stuff
104:06
all these other things are tied to you
104:08
right and everyone agrees that they’re
104:10
you instead of
104:10
estonia proving that it’s you exactly
104:13
instead of relying on estonia’s system
104:15
which is
104:16
corruptable and and you know easily
104:18
hackable and everything else
104:20
and here’s what it comes down to every
104:21
day more and more people wake up and go
104:24
wait why do i need government this is
104:25
that’s the part i like as more and more
104:27
people like they go and they’re like
104:28
yeah i know that my insurance and my
104:30
security and my this and everything
104:31
isn’t that man it’s so much better and
104:33
i’m actually gaining
104:34
value i’m a landlord now i can have my
104:36
my stuff sitting there and staked out
104:38
i’m gaining value i get to work
104:39
you know uh i don’t have to work as long
104:41
and and now i can pursue things that i
104:43
have a passion in
104:44
because i’m i’m i’m able to sit on the
104:46
value of i can i i can
104:48
stake out and sit on the value of others
104:50
and they want to
104:51
because it allows them to be it’s not
104:53
this you know imposed system where i’m
104:54
forcing someone to be my wage slave by
104:56
imposing licensure laws that don’t allow
104:58
them to create their own
104:59
uh their own their own you know uh uh
105:02
enterprise to compete with mine it’s
105:03
just the opposite
105:04
they actually want to do it because they
105:06
can use the stake that i have
105:07
to grow something out of it and more and
105:10
more people wake up from that go
105:12
wait why do we need government i love it
105:14
anyway i i i i’m gonna
105:16
i promise to let you go because we we
105:17
we’re heading up on two hours
105:19
you have been a fantastic guest and i i
105:21
thank you so much for coming on i
105:23
before i let you go i want to give you a
105:24
chance to say anything you want to say
105:27
anything even if it’s i’m scared you are
105:29
you are free to say that now
105:31
whatever you want to say anything you
105:32
want to promote with your with your
105:34
company what you do
105:35
any upcoming events you want anything
105:37
that you want to say however long you
105:38
want to say it
105:39
uh the floor is yours travis
105:43
wentworth we did two hours wow i really
105:46
did i really did not think it was that
105:47
long
105:47
time flies when you’re having fun um i
105:49
appreciate it thank you very much for
105:51
having me on this is a really amazing
105:52
conversation
105:53
um yeah so uh social media and company
105:56
stuff so i am travis iq
105:58
on twitter which is where i’m probably
106:00
the most active if you have questions or
106:01
are interested
106:02
dm me there or shoot me a message and
106:05
we’ll definitely give you some more
106:06
information
106:07
um the company is intelligence quest and
106:09
so that’s why i’m travis iq
106:10
everywhere we have a youtube channel
106:12
called intelligence quest
106:13
and we do cyber security uh fundamentals
106:16
we do some tech deep dives
106:17
we do bitcoin we’re all we’re just
106:20
technologists
106:21
myself and my partner and i’m travis
106:24
underscore
106:24
iq on instagram i usually use that for
106:26
fun tech memes
106:28
things like flaming solar winds for
106:29
their bad hacks and things like this
106:31
um so yeah that’s that’s me in a
106:34
nutshell
106:34
and i really i really appreciate it man
106:36
this was really really fun
106:37
yeah well fun and i know you’re gonna
106:39
you’re gonna message me after this and
106:41
be like why
106:41
why are you trying to make me an
106:43
anarchist i’m sorry go ahead go ahead
106:44
intelligencequest.com so that’s what
106:46
that’s that’s the
106:47
intelligencequest.com we also were asked
106:49
early on and i forgot to ask
106:51
um are you related to jg wentworth
106:54
man i i didn’t i never got that until i
106:57
moved out uh out of new england because
106:58
there’s so many wentworths in new
106:59
england absolutely not
107:00
no uh there’s no company wentworth if
107:02
you’re not from if you’re not from
107:03
the northeast and you don’t know this
107:04
but they’re everywhere in the northeast
107:06
so
107:07
okay um okay so if i if i have a
107:09
structured settlement and i need cash
107:11
now you cannot help me
107:13
i cannot get you any cash and plus you
107:15
already have a guy for that
107:16
so if you have a lawyer that started i
107:19
guess he was personal injury but
107:21
oh yeah no oh no he’ll get me the m no
107:23
see that’s the thing so
107:24
chris chris reynolds can get me that
107:26
structured settlement
107:28
what if i need cash now yeah blockchain
107:31
fixes that by the way anyway
107:32
uh hey thank travis thanks so much for
107:35
coming on uh stick around i’m going to
107:38
talk with you during the outro but hey
107:39
thank you so much man thank you for
107:41
coming on
107:42
awesome thank you you were a fantastic
107:44
guest and folks
107:45
thank you for tuning in to this special
107:47
episode of my fellow americans it’s
107:49
special because all episodes are special
107:50
but thank you for tuning in to this
107:52
episode of my fellow americans uh
107:54
i will see you next week but first if
107:57
you live
107:58
in or near lebanon tennessee or
108:01
absol lebanon i’m sorry lebanon
108:03
tennessee spelled lebanon
108:05
but lebanon tennessee uh i will be there
108:08
on saturday and sunday
108:09
uh for the libertarian party of
108:11
tennessee’s
108:12
uh annual uh convention so be sure to
108:16
come out
108:17
i would love to have you i would love to
108:18
meet you or if i already know you then
108:20
i’d love to see you again because i miss
108:22
you
108:22
the website is lptn libertarian party of
108:26
tennessee lptn.org
108:28
and you can find out more about the
108:29
event you can sign up to uh to be at it
108:31
i’d love to see you
108:32
and uh and then i will join you back
108:34
here uh next on on monday
108:37
uh on my social media monday at eight i
108:39
will be doing my next episode of
108:42
the culture of winning and then on the
108:45
and i think we haven’t i don’t know who
108:46
my guest is yet but i’m gonna have an
108:47
amazing guest for culture winning
108:49
uh then be sure to join me on tuesday uh
108:52
at eight p.m
108:53
for the muddy waters of freedom where
108:54
matt wright and i parse through the
108:56
week’s events
108:56
like the cheerful little 2020 wonder
108:59
boys that we are
109:00
20 20 wonder boys that we are and then
109:03
tune in next week right here
109:07
same spike place same spike time for
109:09
another amazing
109:10
episode of my fellow americans folks
109:13
thanks so much for watching again
109:14
i’m spike cohen and you are the power
109:18
god bless guys
109:34
[Music]
109:40
yay
109:43
[Music]
110:03
[Music]
110:05
[Applause]
110:08
i can’t make a
110:17
[Music]
110:22
if you slide in my kicks it might fit we
110:26
might just
110:27
unite them come together become hybrid
110:30
at the least slightly like-minded indeed
110:33
the life i’ve lived
110:34
brings light to kindness all you need is
110:37
put a cease to the crimes
110:39
put an ease of the minds like mine
110:42
sometimes darkness is all i find
110:44
you know what they say about an eye for
110:45
a night in a time where the blob is the
110:47
blood who am i to deny with cry when a
110:48
loved one dies
110:49
i recognize that body
111:21
[Music]
111:28
tell me why
111:41
[Music]
111:46
yeah change
111:59
we will make a change
112:21
[Music]


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