(((My Fellow Americans))) #84: Sharyl Attkisson

(((My Fellow Americans)))


About This Episode

The media is more biased and narrative-driven than ever before, and government is egging them on to get worse.
How did we get here? And how do we change things?
Award-winning investigative reporter Sharyl Attkisson knows firsthand how bad things have gotten, and she’s going to talk with Spike about how to fix it.

Spike Twitter

Spike Facebook

Libertarian Party Waffle House Caucus

Chris Reynolds, Attorney at Law

Intro & Outro Music by JoDavi.


Episode Transcript

DISCLOSURE
This episode transcript is auto-generated and a provided as a service to the hearing impaired. We apologize for any errors or inaccuracies.
FULL TRANSCRIPT TEXT

02:06
oh
02:08
and now live from beautiful myrtle beach
02:12
south carolina you’re watching my
02:15
fellow americans with your host
02:18
spike cohen yes
02:22
yes it’s me happy new year
02:27
happy new year keep clapping clap for
02:30
the new year miracle
02:32
how do we know that you desperately want
02:35
2020 and it’s nightmares to be left
02:37
behind if you
02:39
didn’t keep clapping welcome to my full
02:41
americans i
02:42
am literally spike cohen thanks again
02:45
uh and i’m no i’m not gonna keep uh
02:48
opening by saying literally for 2021 but
02:50
i’m
02:51
i tried it for this i might do it i
02:53
might keep doing it thanks for tuning in
02:54
to this
02:55
uh year beginning episode the first
02:59
episode of 2021
03:00
of my fellow americans we have now been
03:03
in four different years
03:04
started in 2018 went through 2019 2020
03:07
now here we are 2021.
03:10
bigger and better things on its way
03:11
thanks so much for tuning in
03:13
this is of course a muddy waters media
03:15
production check us out on facebook
03:16
youtube instagram anchor twitter
03:18
periscope itunes google play
03:20
float the float app dump all these other
03:23
ones go to float
03:24
we are on twitch we’re on spotify we’re
03:26
on all the different uh
03:28
uh podcasting platforms we are
03:31
everywhere like us follow us five star
03:34
us hit the bell if you’re on youtube
03:36
that’s very important you have to hit
03:37
the bell otherwise you’re not gonna have
03:39
your phone blowed up with notifications
03:40
every time
03:41
our video comes up we definitely want
03:43
that to happen for you and be sure of
03:44
course
03:45
to share this right now the last thing
03:47
that we want
03:49
is for you and your closest loved ones
03:52
to miss out on a roughly
03:53
hour-long libertarian podcast in the
03:56
middle of the week
03:57
be sure to give the gift of spike cohen
03:58
today kids
04:00
love it this episode of course is
04:03
brought to you by
04:04
the libertarian party waffle house
04:06
caucus the fastest growing
04:08
waffle related caucus in the history of
04:10
all political caucuses
04:12
of any party in any country be sure to
04:15
go to the facebook group libertarian
04:17
party waffle house caucus
04:18
to become a duly
04:22
sustaining member we’ll call it with
04:25
sustaining member
04:26
and you can buy a button there too
04:28
there’s a link there you can buy a
04:29
button
04:29
so you can everyone can know just how
04:32
dedicated you are to both liberty
04:34
and waffles this episode is also brought
04:36
to you by a brand new
04:37
sponsor nug of knowledge
04:40
smokable cbd we’re selling smokables
04:44
y’all
04:45
uh smokable cbd um it is uh
04:48
it is not your everyday nug of knowledge
04:51
is not your everyday cbd supplier
04:53
a portion of the profits go to help end
04:56
the war on drugs
04:57
uh that one there in the green uh is
05:01
uh probably not legal in your state uh
05:03
but you should
05:04
you can you can get it anyway maybe i’m
05:07
you know i’m that’s up to you uh it
05:10
might be legal in your state
05:11
but if if weed’s not legal in your state
05:13
that one’s not
05:14
but the other ones are um but the
05:17
portion of the profits go to help
05:18
end the war on drugs uh they also have a
05:20
compassionate use program that donates
05:23
medicinal hemp products to veterans and
05:25
people with disabilities
05:26
who cannot afford uh these natural
05:29
remedies
05:30
and many who use nug of knowledge
05:33
products say that it helps with joint
05:34
pain
05:35
stress relief or a much needed
05:36
much-needed pick-me-up especially that
05:38
green one
05:39
use a checkout code spike for 10 off
05:43
back to my roots and this episode is
05:46
also brought to you by
05:48
personal injury attorney chris reynolds
05:49
attorney of law if you are personally
05:51
injured
05:52
anywhere in the uh greater tampa bay
05:54
area of florida
05:55
be sure to go to chrisreynoldslaw.com
05:58
and he will get you as much money as
06:00
is lawyerly possible given whatever
06:02
injury you have sustained
06:04
the intro and outro music to every
06:07
single episode of my fellow americans
06:09
ever is brought to you by the amazing
06:12
and talented mr joe davey that’s
06:15
j-o-d-a-v-i
06:16
check him out on facebook go to his
06:18
soundcloud
06:19
go to his band camp at
06:22
joedaveymusic.bandcamp.com buy his
06:24
entire discography
06:25
he is incredibly amazing it cost you
06:27
like 25 bucks or something like that
06:29
you can buy all the music he’s ever made
06:31
it’s fantastic be sure to go there right
06:32
after this episode’s over i’d like to
06:34
thank
06:36
kroger for this delicious purified
06:38
drinking water
06:40
that i’m drinking on this episode of
06:42
anaka
06:44
[Music]
06:45
you can taste the kroger shout out to
06:47
tara on turks’s mom as always
06:49
folks my guest tonight is a
06:51
world-renowned
06:52
investigative reporter and also the
06:54
author of a book that came out uh
06:56
just over a month ago called slanted uh
06:59
which talks about
07:00
the growing bias and
07:03
narrative driven nature of major media
07:06
ladies and gentlemen my fellow americans
07:08
please welcome to the show my next
07:10
guest miss cheryl atkinson sheryl thanks
07:13
so much for coming on
07:14
thank you for having me i’m really happy
07:16
to have you on before we get started on
07:18
on your book and and the narrative
07:20
driven nature of media today
07:22
real quick what is it that actually out
07:24
of curiosity what was it that that made
07:26
you decide that you wanted to get
07:27
into being a journalist in your in the
07:30
first place where did you always want to
07:31
be a reporter or was it sort of an aha
07:33
moment something that happened
07:34
what was it that led to that back in my
07:37
day it wasn’t really
07:39
well known as profession i’m talking
07:41
about
07:42
gosh late 70s early 80s and i think
07:45
after my first year in college when you
07:47
have to redeclare your major we all want
07:49
to be psychiatrists and attorneys i
07:51
think
07:51
our freshman year and then we have to
07:52
get serious and um
07:54
a girl that i was going to college with
07:56
said she was going to do journalism
07:58
never heard of that as a profession i
07:59
asked what it entailed
08:01
and when she talked about it it sounded
08:03
like right up my alley i love to write i
08:05
guess that’s my first love you could say
08:07
and then i also think i have a sense of
08:09
fairness
08:10
and a logical mind that likes to do the
08:13
kind of comparisons
08:14
and puzzle solving that lends itself to
08:17
investigative reporting so it turned out
08:19
to be
08:20
really just a sort of a lucky thing well
08:22
it seems to have worked out well for you
08:24
because you’re you’re as well known as
08:25
pretty much any other investigative
08:27
reporter out there um
08:28
now as a libertarian uh we often
08:31
libertarians often joke about being on
08:33
watch lists
08:34
or being uh watched by the fbi that’s a
08:36
common uh
08:37
common joke that we have but you
08:39
actually had that happen you were
08:40
actually spied upon by the people in the
08:42
highest levels of government can you
08:43
tell us a little bit about that
08:45
well i wrote about that in my first book
08:47
stonewalled
08:48
sort of the lengthy revelation i never
08:50
dreamed i was
08:52
being subjected to government
08:53
surveillance because this was before
08:55
it was snowden and before we knew the
08:58
government spying on
08:59
associated press reporters and fox news
09:01
reporter and so on
09:03
so i didn’t dream that was the case but
09:05
i happen to have long story shorts and
09:07
sources in the intel community
09:09
that alerted me that americans were
09:12
being spied on american citizens
09:14
by the obama administration in a way
09:16
that had never been done before and that
09:17
people would be shocked if they knew
09:19
and i was alerted that because of the
09:21
reporting that i was doing i was likely
09:23
being surveilled too
09:25
and i was able to have a contact looked
09:27
at my cbs laptop computer first
09:29
and then my personal desktop computer
09:32
that i use at home
09:33
and the forensics which we have built
09:35
since then through many independent
09:37
examinations filled in
09:38
a lot of really chilling holes about how
09:41
long i was surveilled
09:42
the types of software that was used the
09:45
material they captured
09:47
the tools they used such as skype to
09:49
secretly activate skype when you don’t
09:51
know it’s on and they can exfiltrate
09:52
files and listen in on your audio when
09:54
you don’t know it
09:56
capturing passwords they enter the cbs
09:58
computer system cbs
10:00
issued a news release about this some
10:02
months later and
10:04
i’m still fighting in court because the
10:06
department of justice which is
10:07
responsible
10:08
in a way because the agents work under
10:10
the department of justice
10:12
in part who are responsible for some of
10:14
the surveillance
10:15
they’re still defending the agents all
10:17
these years later as i spend my own
10:18
money trying to sue in court since
10:20
they’re not going to prosecute
10:22
that’s incredible and it’s yeah it’s it
10:24
from what i’ve read they’re pretty much
10:25
stonewalling you in core as a result of
10:28
it and now this all came out of a
10:29
as far as you can tell as a result of
10:31
your investigative reporting on the
10:33
fast and furious gun walking scandal is
10:35
that is that correct
10:37
i was doing so much reporting that
10:39
powerful interests didn’t like whether
10:41
corporations
10:42
some even that republicans wouldn’t have
10:43
liked and certainly some that democrats
10:45
didn’t like
10:46
it’s hard to know exactly what triggered
10:49
it i think i was
10:50
certainly not the only journalist that
10:52
was being spied on so it’s not as though
10:53
they said oh
10:55
cheryl’s doing the stories on fast and
10:56
furious let’s go after her
10:58
they were capturing a lot of american
11:00
citizens and journalists
11:02
in operations to surveil what they were
11:04
doing we now know the extent of some of
11:06
it
11:07
and i think 2016 since that was never
11:09
prosecuted or handled previously was an
11:11
outgrowth our intelligence community
11:13
continuing with their
11:14
some of them bad acts and their spying
11:16
and surveillance of u.s citizens
11:18
so yes they did definitely look at my
11:20
fast and furious files and photographs
11:23
and exfiltrate information
11:25
there was a continuing operation also
11:27
while i was covering
11:28
the benghazi story the magazine attacks
11:30
by islamic extremist terrorists
11:32
in libya on american citizens so you
11:35
know it’s just sort of a
11:36
lengthy uh operation of surveillance
11:39
that
11:39
i was under as well as other people well
11:42
that
11:42
that is i mean it’s it’s incredible to
11:45
think that the government is
11:46
basically spying on at this point almost
11:48
everyone i mean you mentioned edward
11:50
snowden
11:50
his revelation was that pretty much
11:52
every electronic communication we have
11:54
is being spied upon but that’s i mean we
11:55
can do a whole other episode about that
11:56
let’s talk about your book so
11:58
in slanted and i read it um it is
12:01
uh a pretty uh damning uh
12:04
series of examples of the growing bias
12:08
that is in media and not just the the
12:10
individual bias but the fact that media
12:13
as an institution is increasingly being
12:15
driven
12:16
not by an attempt to actually seek out
12:18
the truth
12:19
but an attempt to have a an already
12:22
attempted narrative
12:24
and then build from that and and
12:26
basically cherry pick whatever you can
12:28
for that narrative um can you talk about
12:32
that narrative can you talk about why
12:33
you think that narrative happened in the
12:35
first place because
12:36
in reading through it you know one of
12:38
the biggest things that i
12:39
that i had a hard time walking away with
12:41
is why is this even happening in the
12:43
first place is this a result of
12:45
you know uh too much corporate influence
12:47
or what do you think is the biggest
12:48
reason behind it
12:51
i really try to i think it’s well put
12:53
the way you said it and i
12:54
spent a lot of time in my last book the
12:56
smear dissecting the industry that’s
12:59
responsible for this
13:00
the multi-billion dollar smear industry
13:02
which is comprised of
13:04
llc’s non-profits political action
13:06
committees global law firms corporate
13:08
law firms you name it
13:10
and they figured out over time as i
13:12
tried to describe
13:13
how to get their nose under the tenant
13:14
news organizations to get us to report
13:17
certain things a certain way
13:18
to use their narratives their language
13:21
to not report certain things
13:23
and they were largely successful at this
13:24
and we did not in my view
13:27
um as as an industry put up the
13:29
appropriate firewalls to keep it from
13:32
happening so
13:33
in the 2005-2006 time period when i was
13:36
at cbs news and recognizing
13:38
this encroaching infringement upon fair
13:41
reporting by outside interests and that
13:43
was
13:43
becoming somewhat successful i alerted
13:46
um
13:47
you know people inside cbs including our
13:49
attorneys and said we need to
13:51
figure out how to do more than just play
13:53
defense after the fact when these
13:55
industries
13:56
either successfully prevent us from
13:58
reporting something
13:59
or use these organized attacks with
14:01
their partners in the media and social
14:02
media to controversialize a story
14:05
to say false things about it to come to
14:07
claim the stories wrong and debunked
14:09
to attack the reporters we need to do
14:11
something more offensive now that we see
14:14
this
14:14
industry growing which can be very
14:16
harmful to us telling the facts as they
14:18
are
14:19
but the sad truth is you know we’re so
14:21
busy just being reporters we’re not in
14:23
the pr industry
14:24
we didn’t develop a defensive strategy
14:27
that was good or an
14:28
offensive strategy and it’s only gotten
14:30
worse and now
14:32
i pause it i hope with pretty good
14:34
evidence that not only are these
14:36
interests
14:36
impacting the newsrooms they now work in
14:39
our newsrooms we’ve allowed them to come
14:41
inside we’re one in the same
14:43
which explains this crazy dynamic where
14:46
even if the news organization
14:48
covers something following virtually no
14:50
ethical standards and guidelines that we
14:52
learn to follow in journalism school
14:54
and even when they’re proven wrong about
14:56
what they report there are often no
14:58
repercussions they almost
14:59
dig down double down and say they were
15:01
right or just move on
15:03
because their mission was accomplished
15:05
if you look at them as propagandists who
15:07
are out to
15:08
push a narrative to the public to try to
15:10
make them think a certain way
15:12
they’re doing exactly what they intend
15:14
and it’s not
15:15
you know a mistake on in their on their
15:17
part when they get it wrong
15:19
yeah it’s not a bug it’s a feature at
15:21
this point and it also you talked about
15:23
the increasing
15:24
panelization of news that there will be
15:26
a news item
15:27
and instead of simply presenting the
15:29
facts they then have a panel which
15:31
usually the panel is largely made up of
15:33
people that already agree with their
15:35
predetermined outcome
15:36
many cases people that actually gave
15:38
them the outcome
15:39
and the information and then now they’re
15:41
on to talk about it and maybe they’ll
15:43
put on one or two you know token
15:44
opposition just to
15:46
make it look like it’s it’s fair and
15:47
balanced and uh and it’s an
15:49
incredible dynamic to see and it’s it’s
15:52
really sad because
15:54
not only does it often you know drive us
15:56
into being
15:57
divided but it often ends up backfiring
16:00
you know
16:00
in in many ways they were so hyperbolic
16:03
or at least part of mainstream
16:05
media was so hyperbolic about you know
16:07
reporting
16:08
uh you know about trump that it kind of
16:10
inoculated the public to
16:12
to the way that trump is so that now for
16:14
example you know a lot of people are
16:16
seeing this this uh you know revelation
16:17
about trump
16:18
uh trying to get the uh georgia
16:20
secretary of state to uh
16:22
to find uh votes and most people are are
16:25
kind of to have fatigue about the whole
16:27
thing they’re like yeah you tell us that
16:28
trump’s terrible every single day
16:30
and uh you know do you think that they
16:32
even care at this point do you think
16:34
that it matters
16:35
that that that it matters to them and
16:38
that they might retool
16:39
or do you think that as long as they’ve
16:41
just got people thinking the
16:42
predetermined narrative that’s all that
16:44
really matters to them
16:45
well they only need a certain slice of
16:47
the audience i find hope in the notion
16:49
that whatever you think of donald trump
16:51
the pervasive ubiquitous narrative was
16:54
how dangerous he is and you can’t vote
16:55
for him and so on
16:57
but tens of millions of americans did
16:58
anyway including something like 10
17:00
million more than last time
17:02
which again like or not shows you that a
17:04
huge segment of the american population
17:06
as you said has grown inoculated to
17:09
these narratives in fact they may
17:10
believe
17:11
quite the opposite when they hear
17:13
something put out or when they see a
17:14
fact check
17:16
fact check done they may start to learn
17:18
that that’s really a code for something
17:20
that’s
17:21
true even though the fact check says
17:23
it’s false when there’s a label that
17:24
goes up on twitter these ridiculous
17:26
labels
17:27
that’s that should be a cue now that
17:29
tells you somebody important doesn’t
17:31
want me to look at this
17:32
information and believe it maybe it’s
17:34
true and maybe i should dig in
17:35
more so when you talk about the
17:37
backfiring that’s where
17:38
i find a little bit of hope in these
17:41
trends that i see is very dangerous to
17:43
our information landscape
17:44
but if we can start look looking at
17:46
these things like you say they’ve gone
17:48
overboard with them so i think they
17:50
they are less effective with a certain
17:52
segment of the population
17:54
on the other hand there’s a segment that
17:56
does not have time
17:58
or desire to dig in like maybe some of
18:00
your
18:01
viewers and listeners do and i think
18:03
that’s who they’re going for just repeat
18:05
something over and over again
18:06
true or not and that’s the top line that
18:08
some people will walk away with
18:10
and ask no more questions i hope that
18:13
that is
18:14
what i can take from as many people
18:16
voting or
18:17
the fact that trump actually got more
18:18
votes in 2020 than he did in 2016.
18:21
i part of me wonders if it’s that
18:23
there’s just a growing
18:25
counter narrative that’s happening on
18:26
the right side i mean you look at
18:28
fox is increasingly digging into a
18:31
i guess you know the right of center
18:33
version of of what’s happening in cnn
18:35
and msnbc
18:36
and then you’ve got you know
18:37
organizations like oan oan or oann and
18:41
things like that
18:42
newsmax that are kind of just sort of
18:44
delivering the right-wing version of
18:45
of what has been happening in mainstream
18:48
media do you think that there’s a real
18:50
like demand for unbiased news or often
18:53
when people are saying unbiased does
18:54
that
18:55
just kind of mean agrees with me
18:57
[Music]
18:58
that’s a good question and i think there
19:01
is a demand for both and i’ve spent
19:03
a decade asking this question as news
19:05
has become polarized
19:07
even people who like to get their news
19:09
from cnn
19:10
which is left-leaning or nbc which is
19:12
left-leaning or cbs which is
19:14
left-leaning
19:15
or whether they get their news from
19:17
these other sources that you said that
19:18
are right-leaning
19:20
all of those people that i i’ve asked
19:21
still would like a place where they can
19:23
turn to that’s more like cnn used to be
19:25
when i worked there when it was a news
19:26
organization back in 1990
19:29
where they can just take at face value
19:31
more or less
19:32
the facts that are reported without
19:34
thinking that’s a narrative that
19:35
someone’s trying to shove down my throat
19:37
to the exclusion of
19:38
other facts that may exist they still
19:40
people that want to hear
19:42
what they want to hear still would like
19:44
to go to a place where they don’t have
19:45
to discount what they hear according to
19:47
where they heard it
19:49
and feel like they’re still getting a
19:51
fair recitation of facts and information
19:53
i think there’s a huge market for that
19:55
i hope you’re right i hope you’re right
19:57
um i i
20:00
having just run for uh vice president
20:02
and seeing that of those who even knew
20:04
who we were that they often had
20:07
their their own you know narrative built
20:09
in before they even
20:10
had you know had a chance to listen to
20:12
us i hope that
20:14
however things go forward politically we
20:16
need to be able to have you know
20:19
mainstream sources of media that aren’t
20:22
trying to dissect things ahead of time
20:23
and give you a driven narrative now
20:25
i will say this sort of a um i guess
20:28
devil’s advocate there is an argument
20:31
that some are saying that media actually
20:33
needs to be even more biased
20:34
in the way that it covers news and and
20:36
they’ll give the
20:38
typically as they usually would they’ll
20:39
give an extreme example so for example
20:41
they’ll say if one prominent figure says
20:43
that uh all jews must be rounded up and
20:46
killed
20:46
and another prominent figure says no we
20:48
shouldn’t be rounding up or killing
20:50
anyone
20:51
uh the media you know shouldn’t you know
20:53
come in and say
20:54
that you know that present an unbiased
20:57
uh
20:57
uh presentation of this debate that they
21:00
should come in saying well of course we
21:02
shouldn’t be rounding up and killing
21:03
people
21:04
um obviously that’s a very very extreme
21:06
position but
21:07
do you think uh that there is a line
21:10
where reporters
21:11
should either stop being objective or or
21:14
at the very least be
21:15
be coming in with some kind of level of
21:17
moral clarity and if so
21:19
where or what do you think that line is
21:21
i don’t think it’s something that’s
21:23
a rule that’s true in every single case
21:25
but in part is part of a general
21:27
guideline
21:28
i would say things that are illegal in
21:30
other words
21:31
murder rounding up people killing them
21:34
right that sort of thing you can
21:35
generally as a news organization
21:38
be willing to take more of a position of
21:40
right or wrong in other words
21:42
you can’t decide off the front in my
21:44
view without attribution that somebody’s
21:46
guilty of a crime but you can certainly
21:47
report
21:48
that someone is accused of a crime and
21:50
what’s being said about it
21:51
and it’s certainly fine to report it
21:53
with as if it’s not okay
21:56
if somebody indeed is accused of doing
21:58
heinous crimes and violating the law and
22:00
that sort of thing
22:01
but very few things as you know fall
22:04
along those lines more likely what we’re
22:06
seeing today
22:07
is valid viewpoints or maybe someone
22:10
doesn’t think it’s a valid viewpoint on
22:12
the other side but
22:13
that’s a matter of opinion or maybe
22:14
somebody finds it distasteful but that’s
22:16
kind of none of your business as a news
22:18
reporter in my view
22:19
and too often we’re just saying off the
22:21
top this used to never
22:23
almost never be done by the way we’re
22:25
saying off the top that your delicate
22:27
ears as a viewer listener
22:29
should not hear these facts should not
22:31
read these studies should not hear these
22:32
viewpoints because we don’t trust you
22:35
to make the same discernment that we
22:36
want you to make that we’ve made for
22:38
ourselves and i i think that’s
22:40
way overstepping the bounds of the job
22:42
of what a journalist has
22:44
it’s led to bad reporting and inaccurate
22:47
reporting that’s been really obvious
22:48
over the past couple of years
22:50
and i think it’s a really bad and
22:51
dangerous trend so the notion that we
22:54
yes we’re gatekeepers to some degree
22:56
because we can’t put every piece of
22:58
information out there’s not enough space
23:00
and time so we’re always making
23:02
decisions
23:03
but the notion that we get to decide a
23:04
narrative or how a story should come out
23:06
or what you think on the front end and
23:08
therefore
23:08
exclude entire people and viewpoints and
23:11
ideas
23:12
i think is a really dangerous thing in
23:13
this country i agree and i i think it
23:16
also
23:16
it protects oddly enough by by creating
23:19
this narrative
23:20
it protects those with the most power
23:22
with the most cynical means
23:24
or most cynical ends um because those
23:26
are the ones that are able to pull the
23:27
strings either with you know uh
23:29
funding or with you know filling them
23:32
with the with the panelists that they
23:33
need and things like that
23:35
one example that that we gave on the
23:36
campaign trail about how these
23:38
narratives are so dangerous
23:39
is that uh with this covet 19 pandemic
23:43
most americans don’t realize that the
23:45
federal government didn’t allow covet
23:46
testing for nearly two months
23:48
for the first two months of the outbreak
23:50
and that that’s more than likely what
23:51
led to it spreading out of control is
23:53
that
23:53
for during the time that it could have
23:55
potentially been contained or at least
23:56
greatly slowed
23:57
no one was able to even test anyone to
23:59
know if they had it and that’s
24:01
never mentioned i i we we live stream
24:03
the debates and
24:04
we’re waiting for someone to mention
24:06
that fact and it was never mentioned
24:08
because it would it would damn both
24:10
republicans and democrats
24:12
and so because it because it would hurt
24:14
both sides
24:16
no one talked about it and it’s it’s a
24:18
very troubling thing so
24:20
i i guess you know you know what i want
24:23
to obviously besides reading your book
24:25
you know going obviously you’re going
24:26
out and buying your book and and reading
24:28
about it
24:28
what are the things that you think
24:31
people should be doing
24:32
today you know there’s only so much we
24:35
can do to demand from others what can
24:36
people be doing
24:37
in their choices their consuming choices
24:40
to try to
24:41
uh help or demand for there to be more
24:44
unbiased media out there
24:46
well continue to call out what you see
24:48
when it’s wrong and unfair don’t be
24:50
bullied by
24:51
what i call the box living in the box
24:53
which is where these interests want you
24:54
to live
24:55
they realize that if they can get you
24:57
totally relying on information on the
24:59
news and
25:00
online and on social media which they
25:02
can effectively
25:03
fairly well control that they can
25:05
basically control your access to almost
25:07
everything so don’t live in that box
25:09
don’t agree to do it
25:10
call it out when you see it don’t feel
25:12
bullied don’t let them make you think
25:14
which is what social media is designed
25:16
to do and the controlled by these
25:17
powerful interests whether it’s
25:19
wikipedia or snopes or
25:22
facebook twitter and so on the interests
25:25
that control it and have all kinds of
25:27
accounts and ways to put
25:29
a lot of narratives out there and you
25:31
know keep certain ones off
25:33
they want you to think you’re an outlier
25:35
when you’re not
25:36
for having a certain thought or a
25:38
feeling or an idea or wanting
25:40
information they want you to believe
25:42
you’re like one of the only ones that
25:44
want or want to hear it or
25:45
that something’s wrong with you so
25:48
listen to your cognitive dissonance when
25:50
you start getting those messages
25:52
and realize that this box is a piece of
25:54
information someone’s trying to
25:55
manipulate
25:56
quite successfully but live outside of
25:58
it you know when
25:59
when i travel around the country and
26:01
around the world there’s an entirely
26:03
different
26:03
impression i have of whether it’s how
26:06
people are getting along and what’s
26:07
happening in this country
26:08
than what you get if you go to these
26:10
information sources that are supposed to
26:12
gosh yeah
26:14
so trust that and just try to not let
26:16
yourself be liable to this
26:19
managed information landscape that
26:20
they’re trying to create
26:22
yeah i i just traveled all 35 states uh
26:26
70 campaign stops talked with tens of
26:28
thousands of people and it was it was
26:30
what you hear on tv and what you see on
26:33
social media
26:34
and the bits and pieces of what they try
26:35
to show you um you know uh
26:37
when people heard that i was going to
26:39
portland they’re like watch out there’s
26:40
you know
26:41
the city’s burning down and i went there
26:43
and there’s a part that
26:44
you know there was some uh difficult
26:47
things that were happening usually at
26:48
night
26:49
but most of the city was still really
26:51
they were much more ravaged by the
26:52
lockdowns
26:53
uh than they were by the by the protests
26:55
or the riots um
26:57
so when given the fact that our
27:01
news media uh environment right now
27:04
is overwhelmingly biased uh and that you
27:07
know
27:07
even on social media is also
27:10
increasingly biased with this
27:11
fact-checking stuff and you know sources
27:13
have discern determined this to be
27:15
untrue and all of that
27:16
what is the best way to try to find out
27:18
the truth we obviously can’t
27:20
be omnipresent so we have to rely on
27:23
getting information is it just getting
27:24
as many different sources as possible is
27:26
it
27:27
trying to find the primary source of
27:29
whatever the news thing is and find it
27:30
out for yourself like what
27:31
what is the best way for someone to try
27:33
to
27:34
get as unbiased as a picture as possible
27:37
given the the
27:38
the environment that they’re in right
27:39
now there are people working on this
27:42
problem so i think something will emerge
27:44
in the next four years because there are
27:45
technical people trying to create
27:47
platforms that can’t be de-platformed
27:49
when people are off the narrative and
27:50
simply reporting things the way they are
27:53
or studies or viewpoints that powerful
27:54
interests don’t want there are
27:56
journalists who want to do that kind of
27:57
reporting and there are investors who
27:59
want to invest in it so there’s people
28:01
looking to solve that problem but in the
28:02
meantime i think you use the tools that
28:05
they’re using against us
28:06
as cues so when twitter labels something
28:09
and says it’s not true or it’s been
28:11
debunked or challenged
28:12
that’s your cue to say someone powerful
28:15
doesn’t want me to look into this or to
28:17
believe it
28:17
it may be true and i need to dig further
28:20
find other sources like you say
28:22
in the last chapter of slanted i suggest
28:24
going to places like and i have a whole
28:26
list of places
28:28
real clear politics they will aggregate
28:31
left
28:31
and right and center so you may not get
28:34
an unbiased view of something but at
28:35
least
28:36
you can get a well-rounded view of what
28:37
both sides are saying
28:39
if you’re looking for something more in
28:41
this time
28:42
when things are shifting we don’t really
28:44
have a lot of unbiased sources to go to
28:47
i think you can find your own sources
28:49
left right center and otherwise
28:50
that you rely on for certain information
28:53
i like glenn greenwald for example who
28:55
leans
28:56
quite left but i like him on topics of
28:59
free speech free press government
29:01
manipulation
29:02
i like and these recommendations came
29:04
from some of my colleagues
29:06
david martin at cbs and pete williams at
29:08
nbc when it comes to national security
29:10
issues who report in what i think is a
29:13
unbiased fashion by and large not
29:15
seeming to be subjected to the beats
29:17
that they cover they don’t just vomit
29:19
out what the government tells them
29:21
and i name a whole host of people and
29:23
sources and outlets that i think you can
29:25
turn to and find your own sourcing
29:27
for the subjects that you care about and
29:29
lastly i know people don’t have time to
29:32
do this it’s almost not fair to say it
29:33
because that’s what the news was
29:35
supposed to do
29:36
but i tell people seek your own original
29:38
sourcing as much as possible and for me
29:40
that means
29:41
i go to c-span and i watch a hearing in
29:43
context
29:44
or a news conference in context and they
29:46
have a lot of it
29:47
and almost every time i come away with a
29:49
different takeaway
29:50
than what i saw reported on the news
29:52
when i see something that’s originally
29:54
sourced
29:55
you know as it actually happened which
29:57
would tell you a lot and if you have the
29:58
opportunity to do that
30:00
that’s the best thing you can do in this
30:02
time when the news is not really
30:05
i think being an honest arbiter of this
30:07
information
30:08
well those all sound like very good uh
30:10
recommendations and
30:11
cheryl i really appreciate you coming on
30:13
before i let you go i just want to give
30:14
you a chance to
30:15
say anything you feel like needed to be
30:17
said in the next few minutes that you
30:18
didn’t get a chance to say
30:19
plug anything you want to do as i always
30:22
do with all of my guests i give you the
30:23
last word
30:24
cheryl atkinson the floor is yours
30:27
well thank you i would just say um i
30:29
think the thing i think is most
30:31
important is telling people
30:32
the power lies in you if you’re not
30:34
subjected to these narratives and these
30:37
stories and you become more aware of it
30:39
it’s not successful and i look at
30:41
twitter i still use twitter some
30:43
i also use parlor which is not using
30:46
algorithms to
30:48
tamp down my reach as twitter and
30:50
facebook have drastically used in the
30:52
past couple of years
30:53
and i think if we think cerebrally about
30:56
it
30:57
if all the people leave twitter
31:00
who are who the powerful interests are
31:03
trying to manage they have nobody to
31:05
manage anymore they’re speaking to the
31:06
choir
31:07
it’s almost as if that goes away that
31:09
level of influence doesn’t exist for
31:11
them anymore we have to find ways
31:13
to kind of supersede these influences
31:16
that they’ve worked so hard to obtain we
31:18
hold the power we’re the product
31:20
they’re out to get us to think a certain
31:22
way
31:23
and by maintaining our own independence
31:25
and critical thinking
31:26
we kind of remove that marketability
31:28
that they have for us
31:29
and we can i think come out of this with
31:32
a different paradigm that’s something
31:34
different than this really sad sorry
31:35
state that we’ve come to today
31:37
right as i finally learned how to use
31:40
twitter uh you’re
31:41
saying no but you’re right you’re right
31:43
we have to do something so
31:45
uh i really appreciate your time cheryl
31:47
thank you again so much for coming on
31:48
and uh and i really appreciate it
31:50
thank you for having me appreciate it
31:52
and folks thank you for tuning in to
31:54
this uh
31:55
beginning of 2021 this first of 2021
31:58
episode of my fellow americans i am so
32:01
excited
32:02
to start this year with y’all uh this is
32:04
going to be fantastic we’re just getting
32:06
started
32:06
all sorts of fun stuff’s going to be
32:08
coming up in fact if you live anywhere
32:10
near sacramento california
32:12
come out and join me this weekend i will
32:14
be uh this saturday
32:15
at 4 p.m was that pacific time pacific
32:18
time local time
32:19
4 p.m uh in sacramento california i will
32:22
be
32:22
one of the speakers at the reopen
32:24
california now protest
32:26
uh we will be on the western steps of
32:29
the state capitol building
32:30
in beautiful downtown sacramento uh i’ll
32:33
be speaking about the harmful effects of
32:35
these absurd lockdowns and why they need
32:37
to end
32:38
so i’d love to if you if you live
32:40
anywhere near there come on out and
32:42
uh i’d love to meet you and talk to you
32:43
in person and uh be sure to
32:45
tune in have a great weekend either way
32:48
and then be sure to tune in next week
32:50
uh to uh my fellow americans well
32:52
actually wait
32:54
wait tune in next week for the next
32:57
episode of spike cohen’s culture of
33:00
winning where i will be speaking with
33:02
uh wendy hewitt who was recently elected
33:04
as a libertarian
33:05
and uh we will be talking about how she
33:07
got elected what she intends to do and
33:09
help to
33:09
build the blueprint for how libertarians
33:11
can get elected across the country and
33:13
then next tuesday
33:14
uh be sure to tune in at 8 o’clock for
33:16
the muddy waters of freedom where matt
33:17
wright and i parse through the week’s
33:19
events
33:19
like the what are we going to be for
33:23
2021
33:26
like the 2020 wonder boys that we are
33:29
and then uh tune in next week right here
33:32
same spike place
33:34
same spike time for another amazing
33:36
episode of my fellow americans
33:38
i’m spike cohen and you are the power
33:41
god bless guys
33:58
[Music]
34:26
[Music]
34:29
[Applause]
34:31
i can’t make a change
34:41
[Music]
34:46
if you
34:49
[Music]
34:56
[Music]
34:57
brings light to kindness all you need is
35:00
a sign
35:01
put a cease to the crimes but an east of
35:04
the minds like mine
35:05
sometimes darkness is all i find you
35:08
know what they say about an eye for a
35:09
night in a time when the blood is the
35:10
blood who am i to deny would grow when a
35:12
loved one dies
35:13
i recognize that body outside
35:42
there’s
35:45
[Music]
35:52
tell me why
36:04
[Music]
36:14
[Music]
36:23
we will make
36:30
[Music]
36:37
[Music]
36:51
you


Check out Muddied Waters Merchandise

Get Muddied Merch!

Check out our store and pick up some sweet custom Muddied Waters merchandise. Makes a great gift!

buy now from our store

Loading cart ...