(((My Fellow Americans))) #44: My Fellow Fakertarians with John Hudak and Kevin Shaw

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02:11
[Applause]
02:14
and now us from beautiful Myrtle Beach
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South Carolina you’re watching my fellow
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Americans with your host spike Cohen
02:26
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02:46
one can hear my mic what the hell is
02:50
happening right now I can’t hear a king
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you’re spike yeah no one can
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you
03:21
what on earth
03:29
hi you can hear me now right people can
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hear me now okay
03:36
welcome my fellow Americans I am
03:38
literally spike Cohen thank you guys so
03:41
much for coming and for waiting for my
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mic to work I am finally back home in
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America and I’m moist my god it’s muggy
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here you can you can tell I’m really
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smart because I was hot up in Canada and
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I thought you know what I’ll help fix
03:55
this if I travel about a thousand miles
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closer to the equator that’ll fix it I’m
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drinking on this episode no more
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shout out natira on Turks is momentum
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and as always guys we have a very
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special event coming up next week that
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I’d love to tell you about it is called
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demo gettin – we are electric
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intersectional Boogaloo we are covering
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the the Democrat debates on Tuesday and
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Wednesday of next week July 30th and
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31st at 8:00 p.m. Eastern right here on
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muddy waters media me and Matt Wright
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will be watching
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that amazing event which hopefully will
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all get healed by Marianne Williamson I
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will also be seeing Marianne Williamson
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tomorrow night probably going live if
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they let me we shall see
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but yeah so be sure to check that out
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next week and guys so without any
06:01
further ado guys my guests tonight are
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the gatekeepers of libertarianism it is
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they who determine who is and is not a
06:08
real libertarian and the answer is well
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none of you are real libertarians only I
06:13
am true libertarian but but enough about
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me
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my fellow Americans please welcome my
06:18
guest tonight my first guest is John
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hudak he is the Connecticut State
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coordinator coordinated for Adam Koch
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ashes 2020 presidential campaign and
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Kevin Shaw is the chairman of the
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Libertarian Party of San Fernando Valley
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he’s the director of freedom and
06:36
philosophy at Liberty Institute of
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freedom and economics and he is an
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at-large representative of the
06:43
Libertarian Party of California and he’s
06:45
basically just a lazy guy who does
06:47
nothing all day long gentlemen thank you
06:48
so much for joining my fellow Americans
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thanks for having us on yeah love to
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have you on and of course we would be
06:56
remiss not to mention the man who
06:59
couldn’t make him tonight our fallen
07:00
comrade who was struck down and the very
07:02
prime of his life it was a tough
07:04
decision to move ahead with this episode
07:06
but we realized that it was what you
07:08
would have wanted our thoughts and
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prayers go out to your loved ones and we
07:12
take this moment to remember you
07:14
Jordan Logue
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[Music]
07:56
yeah I think he works late tonight
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yeah
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oh snap um what you mean you mean to ask
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what made me a libertarian I I suppose I
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was I was always I I just I I was always
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a libertarian it slowly took a while for
08:45
me to become an anarchist I I had this
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faith in the state up until the last
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moment that somehow the right people
08:50
could get elected and good things could
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get done and I maintained that optimism
08:53
late into my 20s and so finally I
08:56
realized it just wasn’t happening and
08:57
now no government at all very good stuff
09:00
and and John same same for you I mean I
09:04
actually used to be in neocon years ago
09:07
I was a big Republican growing up 2008 I
09:11
felt kind of disillusioned I mean I saw
09:13
Ron Paul on with the beats but I thought
09:14
he was kind of crazy at the time but
09:15
then after that election I kind of
09:17
looked into it a little bit more and I
09:19
was like ah maybe this guy actually like
09:20
knows what he’s talking about and then
09:22
kind of gradually became an endcap by
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about 2011 yeah that’s uh that’s kind of
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my timeline too and you’re way younger
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than me so you’re ahead of me um I I was
09:32
in neocon as well and and then kind of
09:35
became sort of a constitutionalist
09:37
mandir kissed and then yeah I was there
09:40
I just kind of like I found myself like
09:42
more and more working my way down until
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it was like wait a sec I don’t think I
09:45
want any government and that was
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probably maybe about 2011 maybe like 20
09:49
ya know probably around twenty eleven
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twenty because I remember I’m like okay
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if our options are Mitt Romney and Obama
09:56
then I think we’re asking the wrong
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question and I I think maybe we’re we’re
10:01
asking ourselves the wrong thing here
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maybe we should be asking do we need any
10:05
of these people and I think maybe the
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answer is no so okay so then you did
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that and now so did you two start
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libertarians or fake Rotarians I’m
10:17
realizing now that I don’t know the
10:19
history of fake Rotarians how did that
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start so I guess I’ll take this one
10:23
exactly okay it’s actually a pretty
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crazy story because it’s basically who
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you wouldn’t expect started it with me
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Matt Kay when you were still an endcap
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really yeah he actually he was mad at
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Liberty hang out one day and he made a
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page I think it was called Liberty hang
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out as a cancer
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liberty or something like that right and
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I had beginning a lot of arguments with
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the Liberty hangout people over the past
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few months cuz I wrote an article where
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I kind of called out Justin maldo like
10:54
maybe three months before that so that
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was like I think we started June 2017
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okay so I saw the page was made I
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started sending him screenshots of
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Liberty hanging out stuff so we just
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started posting them on the page and
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being like hey look at this dumb stuff
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they said and about maybe we brought a
11:13
few people on Joshua Smith was part of
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it some others too
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Kevin you came on later right yeah yeah
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I came I came a little I came after
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danker Terry instead okay so yeah we
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switched the name to fake Rotarians
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maybe two or three days after it started
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and the Liberty hangout people thought
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we were changing it like to hide from
11:35
them they were making posts about it
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like Chris John Cox one of the people
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who he’s a producer for Richard Spencer
11:40
or something like that now as any real
11:44
libertarian would be of course oh I know
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he works I think he worked for David
11:48
Duke too he’s kind of he’s out there no
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I know that’s what it was like oh
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they’re hiding from us and and then
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Augustus Invictus was on the post seemed
12:00
like Doc’s all leftist and stuff like
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that so some guy made like a picture so
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this guy named John Carter who likes to
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block everyone he made a picture with
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like they found out who a few of us were
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so it was like a picture of me Matt Josh
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and two other people and stuff like an
12:16
Tifa Tyrians or something I like that I
12:20
like that note to self
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make make an Tifa Tyrians page I like
12:33
that that and a Nicholas or walk not
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sock account those are the two pages I’m
12:39
gonna be making sense um so okay cool so
12:43
that is that is point so the mission of
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fake Rotarians is obviously to find fake
12:48
libertarians in the community and to out
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them what would you say is the main
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purpose of that do you see it as like a
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legitimate tactic to keep frauds out of
12:56
the Liberty movement are you doing it
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just for Laughs or is it kind of
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nation of both I’d say the main purpose
13:02
is keeping France in the Liberty
13:03
movement I mean we like to get people
13:04
laughs and all that but we feel like
13:06
there’s like a real purpose behind it
13:08
with that Kevin would would and would
13:11
you say about the same like you know
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yeah it’s funny but this is about
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keeping out Baker Terence oh absolutely
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the the fig Rotarians page isn’t out
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there to just grow its audience
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otherwise it would have a bunch of
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followers that were outside the Liberty
13:25
movement it’s largely targeted to other
13:26
libertarians to kind of inform them and
13:28
act as a watchdog against bad behavior
13:30
in the party right and the movement at
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law right and it’s funny because you
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guys like you said your reach is
13:35
somewhat limited because you’re you’re
13:36
targeting specifically libertarians but
13:39
you have an incredible engagement on
13:42
your posts and even in your group which
13:43
only has a few hundred members which
13:45
really speaks to the fact that one of
13:47
the favorite things that libertarians do
13:48
is like say that other people aren’t
13:52
libertarians the thing with your group
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is that you’re actually like you’re not
13:56
just going after people with like it’s
13:58
like in a lot of other groups you two
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would go after each other because John
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you’re more of I guess like a right
14:03
libertarian or libertarian capitalist
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and Kevin you’re more of like a
14:07
libertarian socialist and so you guys
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would tell each other you’re not real
14:10
libertarians and this is more like this
14:12
is more fruitful because you’re actually
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going after people that don’t believe in
14:14
the basics like self ownership and and
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you know uh you know personal liberties
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and things like that you’re going after
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actual like people that really they’re
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saying libertarian but there’s not
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really anything even remotely
14:27
libertarian about what they do yeah I
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mean it’s people who like Hitler and
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Stalin
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yeah I know exactly it’s horrible it’s
14:42
crazy because I mean there’s like I mean
14:45
there’s actual like North Korean
14:47
apologists and I guess maybe I’ve gotten
14:50
so used to the the hit the Third Reich
14:52
apologist that I’m almost jaded to that
14:54
now I’m like yeah that’s just a part of
14:56
the Liberty movement there’s people that
14:57
uh nyah Roenick Lee call themselves
14:59
libertarians and they’ll explain how
15:01
Hitler really if you think about it you
15:03
know didn’t really do that much wrong so
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I guess I’m used to that but now I’m
15:07
seeing like people that are defending
15:09
jus che or whatever it’s called the the
15:11
you know the kim jeong-hoon
15:13
idiot I’m like wow this is wild stuff
15:15
man like I I don’t I don’t I don’t get
15:20
it but it’s it’s crazy to me I I wanted
15:23
to ask the biggest thing so I think most
15:28
people would say that maybe that’s not
15:32
sure would you say most people would
15:33
agree with you that Liberty hangout is
15:35
kind of a fake libertarian outlet at
15:37
this point or the are there really like
15:39
a lot of hangers on that are still
15:40
saying yeah no they’re definitely
15:41
libertarian I would say most
15:45
libertarians would agree with us is that
15:47
by this point
15:47
I mean they’ve really gone like full
15:50
Trump worship stuff like I saw them the
15:53
other day they used to be like in the
15:54
Bitcoin and stuff like that and then
15:55
from throat the thing about Bitcoin
15:57
where he didn’t like it and they were
15:59
defending that the other day they really
16:00
just go with whatever Trump says at this
16:02
point so they’re Pro Federal Reserve
16:04
Note now is that that they’re I mean
16:07
they it seemed that way I mean they
16:09
didn’t say that explicitly but but they
16:12
just go with whatever Trump says that I
16:14
feel like they’re just trying to market
16:16
to like Fox News boomers now it’s it’s
16:19
crazy and I mean I’m not so I’m not okay
16:24
so people will make fun of I’m not
16:27
someone that gets into like making fun
16:28
of people’s appearance and stuff like
16:30
that but it seems like there’s just like
16:34
so much bad blood that there’s just
16:39
people like attacking each other now and
16:41
and I would so I don’t really know that
16:44
the Liberty hangout people that much
16:46
would they always like that or did this
16:49
light just suddenly happen or like what
16:51
what is it based on like I’ve known who
16:56
they were for a while I’d say they
16:58
started off kind of constitutional
17:02
libertarian but it’s weird because they
17:05
called themselves and caps but they
17:06
still kind of made excuses for for
17:09
government I mean that’s part of the
17:10
reason we started the page but um around
17:13
the Trump stuff they really started
17:15
getting into that and I mean they right
17:17
they went after bill weld I mean
17:18
rightfully I go after bill weld – all
17:20
right right but um but then they started
17:23
to get really into the anti-immigration
17:25
stuff I don’t know if you know Jared how
17:27
is but he was one of their writers the
17:30
John Cox guy I was talking about earlier
17:31
was one of their writers he was like
17:33
there he was like their lead editor or
17:35
something like that at one point but how
17:37
how was probably the worst and he was
17:40
one of the ones we were really targeting
17:41
early on yeah I mean he would he kind of
17:45
masked it a little bit but you could
17:47
tell like he read the guy really did not
17:49
like Jews like his his posts were
17:52
seriously but um it was kind of proven
17:57
that we were right about him eventually
17:58
because when Chris Cantwell was in
18:00
prison how co-hosted his podcast with
18:02
him
18:02
oh well I mean he was already out of
18:04
Liberty hangout by that point but that’s
18:07
yeah and I mean maldo know he’s the guy
18:11
who’s in charge of it I think he’s going
18:14
more the he they did kind of like push
18:17
out like the worst elements of the
18:18
alt-right that were there like john cox
18:20
and this other guy that got kicked out
18:21
for defense literally defending Nazism
18:24
but a moldos kind of just gone like full
18:30
Trump I mean I feel like after his
18:32
girlfriend
18:32
Caitlin Bennett the Kent State gun girl
18:35
yeah yeah after she got famous he just
18:39
kind of started appealing to like the
18:41
conservative crowd and not writing
18:42
anything more about libertarian because
18:44
their I mean I’m sure part of it and I
18:47
think uh stefan molyneux it’s a similar
18:49
thing oh yeah I can just see in my and I
18:52
don’t have nearly the reach but I can
18:54
see like on our page and on our on just
18:57
my personal profile if I put something
19:01
out that’s like this kind of you know
19:03
more principled Liberty Liberty stance
19:06
or getting into you know philosophical
19:08
stuff about proper Tyrion is
19:09
everything’s like that it gets some
19:11
engagement and some discussion or
19:12
whatever if I put something that you
19:14
know makes fun of the left huge
19:16
engagement right like just you know
19:18
through the roof or if I even put up
19:20
something that makes fun of the right
19:22
I’ll get slightly less engagement but
19:25
still big engagement like you get it’s
19:26
like if you and so we found that like we
19:29
do with this mix of you know trigger the
19:31
left trigger the right and then actually
19:33
put something libertarian in there
19:35
because when we were just trying to be
19:36
like just doing nothing but
19:39
you know that you know pushing
19:41
libertarian orthodoxy I guess for lack
19:44
of a better word it wasn’t getting the
19:45
engagement I’m sure if you’re on Twitter
19:47
and you know you just put up like hey
19:50
commies come and take your my guns and
19:52
you know fire a gun you’ve got like you
19:54
said you got every Republican boomer in
19:56
the world sharing that and going though
19:57
the futures great you know in all caps
19:59
the future is great look at these kids
20:01
you know Trump 2020 and that so I guess
20:05
it makes more money and I’ve noticed
20:06
Mullen you like overtime has more and
20:10
more I mean do you think that’s he’s
20:12
actually becoming a Nazi or do you think
20:14
that’s just because he gets he’s getting
20:16
pretty close to gone I forget what he
20:18
said the other week but he was saying
20:19
something about how he wondered if
20:21
Jeffrey Epstein molested any Jewish
20:24
girls or something like that I’m
20:25
paraphrasing but it was it was something
20:27
along those lines like where he was
20:29
insinuating that he wouldn’t because
20:31
he’s just out to get the white people
20:32
cuz that’s what matters right like if
20:35
you hear someone’s rape a bunch of
20:37
little kids on a private island and
20:38
tortured them you want to make sure they
20:40
weren’t all Gentiles that’s like a big
20:42
that’s a big deal right guys that’s I
20:45
don’t get it I don’t get it um so at
20:51
this point I guess we can just go
20:53
through different groups and people that
20:55
are being accused of faker terian ISM
20:58
and you can tell me what you think the
21:00
first one being the one that I get the
21:02
most pushback on if we share something
21:04
from them or tag one of their members or
21:07
whatever and you even saw it in my just
21:09
god forbid I put up a cover photo in my
21:11
next episode um is the Libertarian Party
21:15
meets his caucus I’m saying that right
21:18
right Mises yeah um so I first when I
21:23
first heard of the Mises caucus it was
21:24
when Josh Smith was running for chair
21:27
libertarian party chair and people were
21:29
like well he’s with the Mises caucus and
21:31
they’re a bunch of alt-right Nazis and
21:33
I’m like I knew that Ludwig von Mises
21:37
was not definitely wouldn’t been
21:39
considered an alt right Nazi and so I’m
21:40
like all right well let me look into
21:42
this so I joined the libertarian party
21:44
Mises caucus group I think in like 2017
21:48
beginning of 2018 something like that
21:50
whatever his run was same same timeframe
21:53
and because I tend to join groups when I
21:56
think that they might potentially pose
21:58
an existential threat to me so I’m in a
22:00
bunch of different like group said I’m
22:02
not sure why they’d let someone with a
22:03
last name coming in but uh but I you
22:06
know I’ve been on the libertarian at the
22:08
the Mises caucus group since whenever it
22:12
was 2017-2018 I’ve not really seen
22:15
all right stuff I’ve seen some people
22:19
that defend immigration controls and
22:21
I’ve seen some people that maybe defend
22:25
this or that but I’m not seeing this
22:27
like I’m certainly not seeing all right
22:28
and I’m not even seeing like you know
22:31
the a lot of times the the immigration
22:33
stuff is more like economic things than
22:35
like we have to preserve our people or
22:37
culture or whatever why would you say
22:40
and I’d like to get both of your points
22:42
of view because you’re a John you’re a
22:44
member and Kevin you’re not why there’s
22:47
this like why that reputation came from
22:50
where it even came from yes I think that
22:55
first um so I actually I joined the
22:58
group when it first started just to see
23:00
what was going on in there cuz I
23:02
actually like for running fake Rotarians
23:03
and all that I was like oh I’m wonder if
23:05
there’s gonna be small writers in here
23:07
like right maybe some screenshots or
23:09
something like that but um I kind of
23:12
realized early on that some some of alt
23:14
writers did join it first cuz they
23:16
probably thought the same thing like oh
23:17
this is a place for me right but I
23:20
looked at the leadership and I was like
23:21
these aren’t all right like these are
23:24
people that I see liking my fake
23:25
Rotarians posts about attacking me all
23:27
right like I don’t know why they get
23:33
they get those accusations I mean it
23:35
maybe there’s a few bad apples here and
23:37
there but I mean they actually they
23:39
actually made me a moderator of the
23:41
group right
23:42
and I I go through some of the requests
23:45
sometimes if I see like oh it’s like an
23:48
obvious halt right or I’ll just decline
23:49
it or we’ve had like people that I’ve
23:51
gotten kicked out of the group before
23:53
because they’re it’s really not what
23:55
they’re about I mean we’d there’s a poll
23:56
in the group maybe like a year ago and
23:58
it was like overwhelmingly in favor of
24:00
abolishing ice yeah that’s what I mean
24:02
yeah yeah yeah and just Josh is just
24:06
open borders guy like the announcement
24:08
he just put out right now was talking
24:09
about like like like the camps and stuff
24:13
like that and how terrible they are and
24:15
how to you like what was it
24:18
blaming Biden for deportations and stuff
24:20
like that so I mean I feel like some of
24:23
it is just push back against the because
24:26
I mean it’s I’d say it’s mostly
24:27
anarchists a lot of like Austrian
24:31
economics Rothbard Ian types are in the
24:33
group and I feel like a lot of the the
24:36
pragmatic types just really aren’t a fan
24:39
of that that’s a good point Kevin do you
24:42
think the same thing or you have a
24:43
different perspective on not at all no I
24:46
mean with respect to everybody involved
24:48
no I mean I can tell you a little bit
24:49
about where Mises caucus gets some of
24:50
its reputation and this is somewhat the
24:52
problem with politics in general lining
24:55
yourself up with a group always gets you
24:57
painted with the worst behaviors of the
24:58
people in that group I think largely
25:00
because of entities like Liberty hang
25:03
out you get a sort of element in the
25:04
Libertarian Party that’s going to
25:05
gravitate to whatever they perceive is
25:07
the you know the right where’s the right
25:08
that’s where I’m going
25:09
and so the Mises caucus through no fault
25:11
of their own kind of got some really
25:13
shitty characters man they got some very
25:14
outwardly fascist Nazi sort of
25:17
characters and that’s where it got its
25:18
reputation and and I’m not saying they
25:20
deserve it because there’s a lot of
25:21
people in this group – I respect John he
25:24
– Joshua Smith others people in there
25:25
who do charity work I mean I love a lot
25:27
of members of the Mises caucus and I
25:29
think where it’s due they’ve done a
25:32
really good job of holding their members
25:33
accountable and kicking people out who
25:34
don’t adhere to their values
25:37
um and I you know I’m a member of a
25:39
caucus I’m a member of the libertarian
25:40
socialist caucus which also has some
25:41
characters who outwardly speak in a way
25:43
I don’t think represents libertarian
25:45
values and it’s groups like fake
25:46
Rotarians that have to hold both the
25:48
left and the right accountable for those
25:50
things but see I meet Mises caucus is
25:52
largely a good organization I’d say but
25:54
they have a battle with with
25:56
infiltration you know people who aren’t
25:57
necessarily libertarians using their
25:59
flag people that are okay well this this
26:02
represents for lack of a better word the
26:04
right part well this the camera’s aroma
26:07
at the right part of Liberty you know
26:09
right right libertarians right-wing
26:11
libertarianism this must be a home for
26:13
me but like yeah but I mean like I said
26:15
like like John said anytime there’s
26:17
discussion about immigration in that
26:19
there’s maybe I would and I haven’t done
26:22
any kind of scientific polling but I’d
26:24
say about 2/3 to 3/4 of the people are
26:27
abolish ice you know open borders
26:30
privatized borders whatever like you
26:32
know end government control of
26:34
immigration and then you’ll have that
26:37
other third court or whatever that are
26:40
saying well we need some controls but
26:42
again it’s usually like economic
26:43
arguments I don’t believe in maybe I’m
26:46
maybe I’m not forget I’m not remembering
26:47
but if it did happen it wasn’t often
26:49
someone that was just straight out like
26:52
no we need to stop immigration or you
26:54
know slow it because of our culture and
26:55
you know these are people that can’t you
26:58
know we can’t have a libertarian society
27:00
with you know brown people or you know
27:02
whatever that all right talking points
27:04
about supposed libertarianism are so
27:07
Kevin you think it’s more that there are
27:09
just some crappy people that gravitate
27:12
towards that and that kind of gives the
27:14
the broader it kind of tars the whole
27:16
the whole thing like you said similar to
27:18
what happens in like the socialist
27:20
caucus yeah there’s an overlap in the
27:22
economic interests of white nationalists
27:24
and an caps that doesn’t mean all in
27:26
caps are white nationalist it means that
27:27
they might share some common principles
27:29
and for that reason we have to be
27:31
careful in in painting with the broad
27:32
brush a lot of my comrades think that
27:34
you know the Mises caucus is evil it’s
27:35
the alt-right pipeline I’m not convinced
27:37
of that because I’ve seen a lot of good
27:39
souls in there and so I view them as
27:40
kind of our counterpart our ancap
27:42
counterpart and the libertarian movement
27:45
that’s interesting no you said that some
27:48
of the goals of white nationalists and
27:51
and caps overlap can you give a couple
27:53
examples of that well in caps are
27:56
notorious defenders of free speech which
27:58
is a good thing and a bad thing that you
27:59
know means that often they find
28:01
themselves defending I’m you know bad
28:03
character here’s there’s the belief in
28:06
the freedom to segregate which is very
28:08
unpopular with folks like myself and my
28:10
comrades on the left like and caps of
28:12
course it’s it’s ideologically sound to
28:14
say I respect an individual’s right to
28:16
self-segregate and even go form like a
28:18
white nationalist covenant community so
28:20
to speak okay okay but like that’s
28:22
that’s not that’s not a popular idea
28:24
among my friends on the left and
28:25
rightfully so I don’t think that that’s
28:27
going to get society where it needs to
28:28
go but so I mean and that’s why you kind
28:31
of just just because people will defend
28:33
ideas which lead to awful things
28:34
sometimes you get this feeling that
28:36
they’re all bad people fair enough yeah
28:38
I mean John you probably agree with me
28:40
on this that I support someone’s freedom
28:44
to be a racist asshole and actually I’d
28:49
rather know that they are I don’t want
28:51
them to you know my wife’s black eye I
28:53
don’t want if I go into a place and that
28:55
person doesn’t like the fact that my you
28:58
know we’re in an interracial
28:58
relationship and I’m Jewish or whatever
29:01
whatever thing they don’t like about me
29:02
I’d rather they say no sorry we don’t
29:04
want to serve your kind here so I go
29:05
okay I’ll never give you a penny again
29:07
and I’ll let others know that too so
29:10
that you can you know rely entirely on
29:13
people that agree with that to keep your
29:14
business afloat
29:15
and if you can good for you but if not
29:17
you know the rest of us are gonna find
29:19
people that are okay with you know not
29:22
all of us looking a certain way right
29:24
like I mean that’s I mean absolutely
29:26
like they have the freedom to do it but
29:28
I wanna call I have the right in front
29:31
ad so that he acts correct and to add to
29:33
that those people aren’t libertarians
29:34
you have every right to be a racist
29:35
asshole but don’t do it under my banner
29:37
don’t come to my party acting like a
29:39
segregationist and tell me that you’re
29:41
doing so in the name of libertarianism
29:42
yeah yeah I it’s you know I’ve heard it
29:48
referred to as thin libertarianism I
29:50
think it’s hard to argue you’re you’re
29:54
it’s hard to argue you’re a libertarian
29:55
but also like you want people of
30:00
different certain colors to stay away
30:01
like it isn’t isn’t racism the worst
30:05
form of collectivism to deny the
30:06
individual his cognitive ability his his
30:08
personal achievements and to color him
30:10
only with his ancestry to color him only
30:12
with his genealogy like I think that’s
30:14
the worst form of collectivism and a
30:15
full denial of libertarian philosophy
30:16
yeah
30:17
and of all people who said the first
30:20
time I actually heard that said about
30:21
racism being the worst form of
30:23
collectivism ironically is Ron Paul who
30:25
I am often told is the emperor of the
30:30
libertarian – alright pipeline for some
30:33
reason um but yeah no I agree with you a
30:35
hundred percent on that um and I have no
30:40
segue for this I’m gonna plug this
30:41
because like I said an appropriate
30:42
moment anchor is the easiest way to make
30:44
a podcast guys if you’re looking to make
30:45
a podcast thank you
30:47
everything you need in one place for
30:48
free which you can use right from your
30:49
phone or a computer
30:50
they have creation tools that allow you
30:52
to record and edit your podcast so it
30:55
sounds great they’ll distribute your
30:56
podcast for you so it could be heard
30:58
everywhere including Spotify Apple
31:00
podcast Google podcast them anymore and
31:02
you can easily make money from your
31:04
podcast with no minimum listenership be
31:06
sure to download the anchor app or go to
31:08
anchored FM to get started if you want
31:11
to make a podcast we actually use that
31:13
and it works very well so now that my
31:16
plug is done now okay so we’ve got the
31:19
mice the Mises caucus we’re kind of I
31:21
guess on the same page with that there
31:23
are definitely fake Rotarians on the
31:25
left that we talked about earlier um
31:27
I’ve also heard not submit so much as
31:31
with the the Mises caucus but I have
31:33
heard with um people say with the
31:36
libertarian social caucus and the
31:38
socialist caucus and the libertarian
31:40
party
31:41
audacious caucus that you know those are
31:45
if there’s a if there’s a libertarian –
31:47
alright pipeline that’s the
31:49
libertarianism to communism pipeline
31:54
Kevin you’re actually in the socialist
31:56
caucus i-i’ve I’m not in any socialist
31:59
caucus groups but I think I am in the
32:00
audacious caucus group and I have again
32:05
same thing as with the meeska I haven’t
32:07
seen a lot of like communism I’ve seen a
32:09
lot of concepts of libertarianism that I
32:12
personally don’t agree with like ideas
32:15
about ownership of land and things like
32:17
that that I don’t agree with but it’s
32:19
not so far as for me to say that’s not
32:21
libertarianism and it certainly isn’t
32:22
far enough for me to say like oh that’s
32:24
you know they’re communists they want to
32:26
you know collectivise my property but do
32:30
you think that that’s kind of a similar
32:31
thing as the Mises caucus where they’re
32:33
just bad characters that give it a bad
32:35
name absolutely the worst people to come
32:39
to our movement we’re also unfortunately
32:41
the loudest and for you know but over
32:43
time we’ve come to hold them accountable
32:44
as well well what makes me sad is the
32:46
story of the live stock caucuses again
32:48
the story of the worst of us it’s the
32:49
story of the assholes but what you don’t
32:51
see is the really good stuff that
32:52
they’re doing I’ve seen a very small
32:54
group with far less resources than Mises
32:56
undertake cross state efforts to help
32:58
people to do mutual aid to actually
33:00
demonstrate the value of our philosophy
33:02
right there’s a lot of really good cats
33:03
in the lips ah caucus and I think
33:04
there’s a lot of good potential there to
33:06
bring decent lefties out there in the in
33:09
the mainstream political movement closer
33:11
to libertarianism so no I think they’re
33:14
I think they’re good people and I think
33:15
they’re valuable to the party yeah John
33:17
and I I’d assume you kind of think the
33:19
same or you have a different perspective
33:20
on that I mean yeah they’re good there’s
33:24
some good people in there and then there
33:26
are the ex all’s that kind of run it for
33:27
the rest of them right I mean if there’s
33:28
if it’s just the people that are just
33:30
like okay like I want to just have my I
33:33
want to have my own commune or something
33:35
like that like that that’s totally fine
33:37
right I don’t I don’t I wouldn’t do it
33:39
myself but Who am I to tell them how to
33:41
live yeah
33:41
but like with the Matt K types I mean
33:44
he’s he’s actually gone now yeah cuz
33:46
he’s not even he doesn’t even claim to
33:48
be a libertarian anymore right like he’s
33:49
no he’s he’s gone full-on caught me I
33:52
said this boy yeah but I mean he was
33:55
doing the whole like thing about killing
33:56
landlords and stuff like that like yeah
33:59
he’s yeah and he’s he’s actually one of
34:02
those North Korean like support types
34:05
that you were talking yeah yeah like
34:06
like anything that’s bad about Stalin in
34:08
North Korea is just propaganda that’s
34:11
like his viewpoint ya know the kulaks
34:13
deserved it
34:14
yeah no III it’s and then there’s the
34:17
Benjamin
34:18
strike or something like that oh yeah
34:21
yeah I think they’re they’re friends I
34:24
don’t I don’t I know that the federal
34:29
government the US government does
34:31
propaganda about other countries I get
34:34
it like but I don’t think you can
34:37
objectively look at North Korea and go
34:41
yes that’s something I’m gonna defend
34:44
today I I don’t know I I don’t I don’t
34:47
Kevin you’re a socialist is that that’s
34:49
that’s not your socialist dream right
34:50
like that’s I have no intention of
34:53
taking your toothbrush which I mean
34:57
North has taken people’s toothbrushes
34:58
like that’s well yeah you should see the
35:01
sort of fighting that goes on behind the
35:02
scenes in our behind closed doors with
35:04
us it drives us nuts yeah we’re
35:06
anarchists we don’t favor using the
35:07
state to take anybody’s anything we
35:09
favor the abolition of the state and
35:10
maybe is somewhat unorthodox economic
35:12
arrangement but
35:13
and it tends to be bottom up we want to
35:15
organize workers we want to see that
35:16
wealth is distributed equitably we want
35:18
to see the people see the fruits of
35:20
their labor okay like labor should own
35:21
itself it shouldn’t be that somebody
35:22
gains seventy percent of what you
35:24
produce that doesn’t mean we have to
35:26
take anything from you means we can
35:27
demonstrate you already see businesses
35:29
starting up all over the place that
35:30
organize along these these are flaws
35:32
exactly right right yeah we’re voluntary
35:35
that’s why I think there’s a lot of
35:36
potential for friendship with with and
35:39
caps there’s so many people in the ancap
35:40
side you say there’s no such thing as a
35:42
lib sock
35:42
they don’t exist and Lib socks are
35:44
likewise all end caps are authoritarians
35:45
they’re just talking past each other but
35:47
the truth is both of us want the state
35:48
gone both of us wants to experiment with
35:51
with our own economic models so why not
35:53
help each other achieve that and leave
35:54
each other to our own devices
35:55
isn’t that the most libertarian thing to
35:57
do right and this was something so I
35:59
used to be one of those people I would
36:00
say I you know there’s no such thing as
36:02
the lib sock and I thought you know what
36:03
don’t do this because you used to be a
36:04
Republican that used to say you know
36:06
there’s no such thing as a good Democrat
36:07
stop and so I’ve reached out to people
36:10
and you were one of them like and I
36:12
thought let me just hear what they have
36:13
to say they can’t they can’t take my
36:15
toothbrush from the Internet so let me
36:17
just you know talk to them and see and
36:19
and the more I talk to them I’m like
36:21
okay I don’t agree with everything but I
36:24
also I realize something in that is in
36:26
those discussions we have a federal
36:29
government that is growing by leaps and
36:32
bounds murdering people around the world
36:34
murdering people here putting people in
36:37
cages our government is growing at you
36:39
know not exponentially but it seems like
36:41
exponentially steadily growing around
36:44
the world statism is still a thing all
36:47
governments are growing the vast
36:50
majority of people haven’t even been
36:51
exposed to anything even resembling the
36:53
Liberty discussion it seems like for me
36:56
and you to be arguing about what a post
37:00
state society is gonna look at and look
37:03
like in terms of things like you know
37:05
the sticky Nate the stickiness of
37:08
property ownership or whether you can
37:10
own land or not or you know the you know
37:15
the subjective theory of value versus
37:18
the labor theory about like it’s it’s
37:21
these are good discussions that have but
37:23
it seems like if we agree on the vast
37:25
majority of it
37:26
I’m when we are completely losing on all
37:29
fronts in terms of of anyone like you
37:31
know of libertarianism actually
37:33
happening anywhere why would we not
37:35
focus on like you said actually doing
37:37
things and demonstrating the answer to
37:39
that question without government who
37:40
would do X and say well the answer is US
37:44
will do those things why would we not
37:46
focus on that and then worry about what
37:49
that post state economy’s gonna look
37:51
like later right like I mean why would
37:53
we continue that certainly and I would I
37:56
would go so far as to argue multiple
37:58
different models of economy are gonna be
38:00
necessary post state we’re gonna have to
38:02
see what best serves mankind it’s all
38:03
theory right now none of this has ever
38:04
been done and caps and and Lib socks
38:06
equal you’re talking about utopias we’re
38:08
talking about ideas that have never
38:10
truly been experimented with so I think
38:14
everybody should have a chance to give
38:15
it a go
38:15
John but what do you think of that with
38:18
the idea cuz I tended to lean more
38:21
towards that that a freed market isn’t
38:24
gonna look like any specific thing what
38:26
do you think of that yeah there’s
38:28
definitely gonna be pockets of different
38:29
things I mean as long as like the the
38:32
and sock or and Kham Kham you and like
38:34
leaves the rest of us alone like I’m
38:36
fine with it but if they’re I mean if
38:38
they’re like breaking into my house or
38:40
saying I can’t read something or killing
38:43
me if I’m a landlord like that’s when I
38:44
have the issue but it leave you alone
38:46
where are you gonna get all your music
38:48
in your art bro okay that was the other
38:51
thing so one thing that appealed to me
38:53
with with Lib socks was that I see talk
38:59
about charity and things like that
39:02
across the de libertarian spectrum like
39:04
that’s a big part of what we’re saying
39:06
is that charity is going to you know you
39:10
know take care of a lot of the problems
39:12
that that we worry about post government
39:14
um a charity and mutual aid and people
39:16
helping each other and so forth it seems
39:18
to me that libertarian socialists their
39:22
primary concern is the poor and the
39:28
least off among us that seems to be like
39:31
their first second and third concerns
39:33
and I have a respect for that because as
39:36
someone who former business owner avid
39:39
capitalist
39:40
I I’m very much like that’s a place that
39:46
only until recently that wasn’t where my
39:48
head was and seeing people that are
39:50
there to answer the question without
39:52
government who’s going to take care of
39:54
the poor the answer to that is people
39:56
who are primarily concerned about the
39:57
poor are going to be taking care of the
39:59
poor and so yeah I do think we need
40:01
people who think that way that they’re
40:04
their biggest concern isn’t necessarily
40:07
you know how prosperous you know you can
40:12
get as much as that bottom rung how well
40:15
they’re taking care of anyway that’s
40:16
just my personal opinion I you’re
40:19
absolutely right that is that is your
40:21
perception is correct we do very much
40:23
care for those who are not cared for we
40:24
care for those who who fall through the
40:25
cracks I myself spent a good portion of
40:27
my life homeless and the government
40:29
didn’t do anything to help me and voting
40:30
for her minimum wage increases didn’t do
40:32
anything to help me and I’ll tell you I
40:33
recognize that nobody’s going to do
40:35
something if I don’t do something and
40:37
that’s why I’m in this party and that’s
40:38
why I’m an activism my comrades on the
40:40
Left likewise they recognize that the
40:42
government is not the vehicle for
40:43
achieving what we want they’re not going
40:45
to help poor people if we want to do
40:46
something we have to take action
40:47
ourselves which i think is a common
40:49
principle with my friends on the right
40:50
right yeah exactly exactly so we have so
40:55
many comments I don’t even know where I
40:58
don’t even know where to come how many
41:01
of them are anti-semitic that’s a good
41:04
question um I uh uh surprisingly none
41:12
yet yeah I see one from Dan Posner my
41:18
comrade and you know what he’s
41:19
correcting me lip sock society’s most
41:21
certainly exists I can only assume he’s
41:22
talking about the Zapatistas perhaps
41:24
which yeah that’s true they are kind of
41:26
a lip sock Society so he’s right there
41:28
there are experiments going but they’re
41:30
constantly defending themselves from
41:31
governments right yeah no no santi
41:36
anti-semitism here that is uh that’s a I
41:40
first possibly um so so so I one thing I
41:47
wanted to talk about and I have
41:48
intentionally stayed away from this
41:50
because it looked like a gigantic
41:54
dumpster fire that people were pouring
41:57
every kind of flammable liquid on it and
42:00
you know rocket propellant and
42:02
everything else and so now I’m gonna go
42:05
live and talk about it because that’s
42:06
probably the best way to deal with it um
42:08
and you guys have touched on it Benjamin
42:10
the leader letter I don’t know how to
42:13
think it’s Leonard yeah it’s that’s how
42:16
I how I saw it but I could be wrong what
42:19
the hell was that all about
42:20
I mean what’s actually interesting is
42:23
that we I didn’t really do much work on
42:26
that whole investigation and Kevin
42:27
didn’t either do we have I’d say we have
42:29
like six or seven active admins on the
42:32
page some of them kind of stay behind
42:33
the scenes right but I mean we’ve had
42:37
we’ve had sources and stuff like that
42:39
that they’ve kind of provided us with
42:41
some stuff some of the recordings that
42:44
you might have heard yeah um yeah the
42:47
guys I don’t know I mean it’s not it’s
42:51
not even like even if someone was making
42:54
up a story about him or something like
42:55
that like these are the guys own words I
42:57
mean it’s it’s it’s screenshots of his
43:00
posts its recordings of his calls or I
43:02
don’t know if it’s a call or what it was
43:04
but it was recordings of him and I mean
43:07
he’s to say I’m talking about like
43:09
bodies and trash bags on the street
43:12
election night and I mean he kind of
43:14
it’s weird like he doesn’t deny it he
43:17
kind of act like he’s joking sometimes
43:19
and then he was saying something about
43:21
how one of the recordings was under
43:23
duress but he said he was joking about
43:25
it before so I I don’t know I don’t know
43:28
wondered like someone else someone was
43:29
forcing him to say those things he
43:31
didn’t elaborate this was just an excuse
43:34
he used after Josh like brought the
43:37
motion to censor him forbid censure
43:39
sorry people get down when mixed up for
43:41
being haniss for being for being handed
43:46
wonderful so idiot I’m one of the
43:50
lefties that he intends to bag up and
43:51
put on yeah and I think this is one of
43:54
this is one of those situations where
43:55
look the Libertarian Party pretty much
43:57
stood up loudly and said they weren’t
43:58
having what Matt Kay was doing and I
44:00
appreciate that now it’s time to do it
44:01
again if somebody’s gonna call for
44:03
violence like when he called the black
44:04
bloc you know he was gonna call for
44:05
violence at the at the convention nobody
44:07
was having that
44:08
they thought that wasn’t very
44:08
libertarian why then do we allow literal
44:10
threats of death to a pretty small
44:13
minority in the party let’s be real
44:14
that’s not called for yeah no they got
44:19
talked about beating up anti-war
44:20
activists too that was one of the
44:22
recordings there was something about
44:23
like those tall sees supporting like a
44:27
slurs beat him up or it was I’m
44:31
paraphrasing but there was something
44:32
about violence against antigen and I
44:34
know some of those tulsi supporting
44:36
anti-war activists and they’re good ass
44:38
people and you’ll have to come
44:39
through me you want to bag up some
44:40
bodies paste it to Batman don’t let
44:43
this guy run for president yeah that’s
44:44
it that’s what I was gonna say he’s
44:46
running for president like that I don’t
44:48
know which I mean I’m not an odds
44:51
handicapper but probably not the best
44:55
odds of winning the presidency probably
44:58
the guy’s gonna get like three votes in
45:00
the primary I mean that convention or
45:01
something like that but still like what
45:03
if he goes on CNN is like a libertarian
45:05
party candidate or something like that I
45:07
mean that would that would not look good
45:09
that would definitely buttress the the
45:11
common pot so when I tell people I’m a
45:13
libertarian I get one of three responses
45:16
the vast majority of the time I get like
45:18
oh you guys are kind of like Republicans
45:20
but you like weed and I’m like not even
45:22
remotely but okay and then some people
45:24
will be like oh you’re the people who
45:26
you know they’ll say like oh you’re
45:28
Democrats who like guns or you’re those
45:30
like crazy people who want everyone to
45:33
be you know on the streets or whatever
45:34
but like for the most part people like
45:36
oh yeah you’re like Republicans but you
45:38
like weed and I’m like oh how could you
45:39
ever think that maybe it’s cuz we keep
45:41
running Republicans who like weed for
45:44
president but so now you got a guy who’s
45:49
gonna kill anti-war activists and is I
45:52
mean again I have not really engaged it
45:56
but what little I’ve just kind of seen
45:58
on my feed has looked like a really
46:01
angry Trump supporter I don’t I don’t
46:03
know that I’m not saying he’s a trump
46:05
supporter but like though those are the
46:06
words that I see from like really really
46:08
angry
46:09
Republicans yeah I mean it’s hard to pin
46:12
down his views sometimes I’ve seen some
46:14
stuff like you can kind out you kind of
46:16
got a look at the people he attacks to
46:18
kind of figure out what his views are I
46:19
know he attacks people who were like he
46:21
views
46:21
overly anti-war and he definitely
46:23
attacks open borders people a lot I
46:25
don’t know I don’t know what he said
46:27
specifically on Trump I mean if if that
46:30
comment that comment he had about
46:31
blowing up all the conventions I mean it
46:33
included the RNC so I don’t know if he’s
46:35
a huge Trump fan there right right yeah
46:37
no and I wasn’t saying he was but I’m
46:39
just saying like some of the rhetoric is
46:40
like like it sounds like when a Boomer
46:43
snaps and forgets that the Internet is
46:45
forever and that you know now your
46:48
grandkids are gonna see you you know
46:50
saying this crit and it’ll be like wait
46:51
I did revolution and kill all the
46:53
hippies or whatever um yeah I don’t I I
46:56
don’t get I saw he was running for
46:58
president I saw he was threatening and
46:59
then I saw like something about domestic
47:01
abuse and I was it was enough where I
47:03
was like yeah I’m gonna not really delve
47:05
into this but he’s like like Kevin like
47:07
you said I mean he’s personally attacked
47:08
people and like he’s been like I know
47:11
Desiree Lindsey was someone that he was
47:13
going after like really hard and like
47:15
threatening her and her husband and I
47:16
mean that’s does anyone know what is the
47:19
status of like actually having him
47:21
removed from the party or censured or
47:22
whatever I do not believe the motion
47:26
passed no the the National motion failed
47:30
pretty handily I mean it really didn’t
47:32
have that much support which was kind of
47:34
a bummer I do think the Texas party is
47:36
working on something I don’t have
47:38
details there or someone why if someone
47:39
who’s watching this knows about it just
47:41
say something in the comments yeah yeah
47:43
cuz I think the local I think the local
47:44
party did something to we’re like I know
47:46
I’m pretty sure he ran for something in
47:50
a recent election cycle and like for
47:53
like a primary for the Libertarian Party
47:55
and like none of the above being in the
47:57
primary or something like that yeah I
48:00
mean I don’t I think I’m less concerned
48:03
about his impact on the party as I am
48:06
about him like hurting someone you know
48:09
like someone getting no even himself
48:10
like someone getting hurt instead of
48:13
like someone making sure this guy is
48:14
okay and like getting help that he needs
48:17
or something like that again I know very
48:19
very little about him so I mean if you
48:21
end up watching this I hope that I hope
48:23
that you find some peace and and and and
48:25
and and get better because it sounds
48:27
like you you’re probably the one person
48:29
who’s probably the most tortured by this
48:31
so hopefully you know that that would be
48:33
what I would say we have a question from
48:35
Oh kiss my bass on YouTube I think I’m
48:39
saying that right yeah
48:41
who asked do you think the Libertarian
48:43
Party is controlled opposition John what
48:45
do you think about that I mean no I mean
48:49
I think there’s a lot of well-meaning
48:51
people I do think it’s kind of a little
48:56
bit of a dumpster fire right now the
48:57
kind of Frank with it but I mean the
49:00
people mean well I I just don’t think
49:03
it’s been that effective right now I
49:05
think we can turn that around but we’ll
49:07
see okay Kevin what do you think I’m
49:11
proud of the party I’m proud of the
49:13
things that’s accomplished and I think
49:14
the reason we see these problems is
49:16
because as we see in the Mises caucus as
49:18
we see in the Lib saw caucus we allow
49:20
the worst of us to speak for all of us
49:22
and because we’re so libertarian were
49:23
reluctant to take any disciplinary
49:25
action reluctant to do anything I think
49:27
the rules authority some and as a result
49:29
we let these people walk all over us we
49:31
let these people fly our flags and say
49:33
disdainful things and we do nothing to
49:35
stop it and that’s the problem once we
49:37
stop that once we stand up to the
49:38
bullies in our party once we grow a
49:40
spine and say hey that’s not
49:41
libertarianism you don’t get to call
49:43
that libertarianism get the out
49:44
once we start doing that things are
49:46
gonna turn around I’m optimistic about
49:47
the trajectory man we got this new blood
49:49
we got all these young people moving
49:51
into party leadership and taking over
49:53
rules of responsibility I think in the
49:55
next 10 years you’re gonna see a whole
49:56
different LP man yeah I I think it’s an
50:00
interesting paradox in libertarianism
50:03
that because we tend to be like okay
50:06
well you know do your thing man it lets
50:08
in people who will say insane things and
50:11
we kind of go well you know I respect it
50:16
I respectfully disagree but you know you
50:18
could do your thing but I do think that
50:19
there’s a line where it’s like obviously
50:22
promoting direct violence against people
50:24
that’s that’s a line regardless of
50:26
political ideology or whatever if you’re
50:28
not if it’s not defensive violence
50:30
anything other than that is I think
50:32
unacceptable but I think there are other
50:33
lines even before that if you’re
50:35
promoting you know people being forced
50:38
into bad situations or people being you
50:41
know harmed I think that you even
50:44
economically harm and things like that
50:46
punishment by the state and things like
50:48
that I
50:49
think there’s a line where you can say
50:50
yeah you have the right to say that but
50:53
we don’t want to associate with those
50:57
thoughts and if those are really what
50:58
you think we don’t want to associate
50:59
with you because we’re already a very
51:01
small somewhat fringe movement to begin
51:04
with if someone glances over and they’re
51:06
like oh pedophilia and Nazism and yeah
51:11
no okay no no nevermind
51:13
thanks though um I think that it you
51:16
know you’re it’s it’s hurting things by
51:18
it by doing that right like I mean
51:20
that’s that’s not a good look
51:22
totally so I have I have a question
51:26
about um why you guys think the Liberty
51:31
movement isn’t more popular like why is
51:35
it almost depressingly unpopular like
51:38
why is it that obviously some of it is
51:41
government control of of you know of the
51:44
narrative through public education and
51:47
you know a government adjacent major
51:52
media and things like that but like you
51:54
can get in front of someone and talk to
51:57
them about your you know beliefs and a
52:00
lot of times they just are like that’s a
52:03
bit much like even if they agree with
52:04
your premise they still just kind of
52:06
think it’s a bit much is it really just
52:07
that much heavily of an indoctrination
52:09
thing or is it a messaging problem on
52:11
our part I mean I think people they just
52:19
like what they’re used to like they’ve I
52:22
mean like you said they’ve been to
52:23
government schools and if someone goes
52:25
to like a Christian school you’re going
52:27
to expect them to learn like what the
52:29
church wants something right and I mean
52:31
they’ve gone to public schools and what
52:33
the government wants them to know it’s
52:37
it’s an incredibly uncomfortable and
52:39
counterintuitive concept that we don’t
52:42
need a government I don’t know what it
52:43
was like for you to pry yourself from
52:45
that idea but it was not easy for me it
52:46
was painful as I imagine it is for a lot
52:48
of people coming to the party and
52:50
encountering anarchists for the first
52:51
time for the entirety of recorded human
52:54
history we’ve had governments we’ve
52:55
existed with governments and so from the
52:57
moment of your birth you existed in a
52:59
world where you you you just understood
53:00
there were government services tax
53:02
came right out of your paycheck you
53:03
might have never had cause to question
53:05
it it’s like that painful awakening from
53:07
the matrix where you wake up and you
53:08
realize you’re and you’re in a pod and
53:09
you’re like holy I’m not paying for
53:11
poor people I’m paying for war yeah I’m
53:13
paying for military bases around the
53:15
planet I’m paying for expensive bombs to
53:17
explode cheap villages this is this is
53:19
not what I thought the red white and
53:20
blue stood for like so I mean there’s a
53:22
reason why this isn’t a popular movement
53:24
this is a very difficult thing to wrap
53:26
one’s head around and our ability to
53:27
communicate it is is behind the times
53:30
man we got a good command of the
53:31
philosophy but we can’t speak to
53:33
people’s hearts we’re we’re so busy
53:34
being right we don’t know how to be nice
53:36
we’re not empathetic this is a very
53:39
interesting thing I had Robin
53:40
do you guys know Robin Koerner yeah I
53:44
don’t know him personally but yeah okay
53:45
so Robin Carter for those who don’t know
53:48
he’s he helps with libertarian marketing
53:51
and messaging and one of the things he
53:52
says is that because we’re so philosophy
53:56
driven we often forget the empathy part
54:00
of it and you know someone will come in
54:03
and and you know we were joking earlier
54:05
before we started that you know how
54:07
quickly you can be called a boot licker
54:08
by like just having a nuanced opinion
54:11
about the police or you know especially
54:13
if you’re not an anarchist
54:14
you know that one of the three of us end
54:16
up jumping down your throat because you
54:17
you know defend you know laws against
54:20
meth or something like that
54:21
and and and you know to me I think that
54:26
the state is I think most of us have
54:30
learned toxic codependent ways to
54:33
interact with other people and I think
54:35
that the state is just an expansion of
54:37
that if you look at the things that are
54:40
taught about healthy relationships
54:43
versus toxic and co-dependent
54:45
relationships if you look at how people
54:47
interact with one another within the
54:48
state where your neighbor becomes your
54:50
enemy because you’re voting against each
54:52
other but neither one of you is gonna
54:53
leave and you know that one has better
54:56
you know bow to my will that’s all
54:58
codependency and I think a lot of it is
55:00
just bad relational foundations that
55:04
just multiply out into you know how we
55:07
interact with the entire rest of the
55:09
world and I think what someone comes in
55:11
and says you don’t have to do that we
55:13
can have voluntary interactions with
55:15
people
55:16
we can have voluntary associations
55:17
associations with people the way that
55:19
you want to live your life can be done
55:21
and you can let other people live their
55:23
lives
55:24
it sounds so foreign that even before
55:27
you even get to the idea of no
55:28
government it’s like well no I have to
55:31
stop the bad people and they’re not
55:33
thinking about the fact that the bad
55:35
people are the ones voting too and
55:38
they’re in this constant fight with them
55:40
um but I so what would you say moving
55:45
forward if you had your your your you
55:49
know your if you could snap your fingers
55:51
and fake Rotarians turned into exactly
55:53
what you wanted it to be what what is
55:55
your goal what are your goals moving
55:58
forward with fake Rotarians and with
55:59
what you want to see happen in the
56:00
Liberty movement either one of you first
56:05
John first I guess okay I would I would
56:08
okay yeah whatever okay I would like to
56:13
see us develop a private militia that
56:14
will allow us to fend off government
56:16
forces and enact anarchy across the
56:18
country but that’s a long-term goal I
56:19
don’t know about John I mean that one I
56:26
mean just continue to call out the bad
56:28
actors and get them disassociated from I
56:32
mean I feel like that’s what we were
56:33
trying to do with Liberty hang out and
56:36
chase Rachel’s as a radical capitalist I
56:39
mean I feel like these people are kind
56:41
of poisoning the movement and they’re
56:42
just gotta get him out of there I would
56:45
love to help with the militia thing
56:47
sadly I lost all of my guns and ammo at
56:50
that tragic day at sea so I I can’t help
56:54
sorry
56:56
but I’m there in spirit but you know I
57:00
don’t know what I don’t know we’re not
57:01
we’re not going to deploy ground forces
57:03
we’re gonna have an orbital laser cannon
57:05
that’s just gonna handle from space
57:06
even better which that should be legal
57:08
so we here at muddy waters support full
57:12
and total legalization of recreational
57:14
plutonium and and whatever whatever it
57:18
technology is involved to make the laser
57:20
thing that you were just talking about
57:21
um so guys thanks again for coming in I
57:25
I really enjoyed having both of you hope
57:28
to have you on again I want to
57:30
you a chance before I let you go to give
57:32
any final thoughts that that day
57:37
anything that you want to promote
57:38
anything you thought we didn’t get to
57:40
touch on you have as much time as either
57:42
one of you want John and Kevin the floor
57:45
is yours
57:49
you got anything Kevin make a friend you
57:53
don’t agree with shake a hand across the
57:55
aisle and do something to up the
57:57
government today go feed some homeless
57:58
people do something nice man this is a
58:00
this a beautiful movement let’s treat it
58:02
like one let’s treat people like friends
58:03
that’s all I got thought I don’t got
58:05
nothing to plug I don’t have anything to
58:08
plug either but I mean God I kind of
58:10
agree with Kevin said yeah that was
58:12
actually pretty beautiful man like I
58:15
don’t know if I could top it I think I
58:17
may just turn off the feet um no I yeah
58:20
no I agree I I think that in the last
58:24
few last year or so my libertarianism
58:28
has looked more like like Kevin said
58:31
being nice to people talking to people
58:33
helping people encouraging people to
58:35
help others because it’s real easy for
58:37
me to say
58:38
yeah well without government we’ll fix
58:41
everything like will you know do it but
58:43
if I’m gonna look like an asshole who
58:45
don’t want to help anybody how
58:46
believable is that like if I’m sitting
58:48
you’re talking about screw the poor they
58:50
probably got their own their own you
58:51
know you’re gonna pull up to pull
58:53
themselves up by the bootstraps and but
58:55
at the same time saying well yeah well
58:57
you know without government I’ll take
58:58
care of them well that seems kind of
59:00
specious that sounds that sounds a
59:02
little far-fetched because you were
59:04
really hating on the poor so I think
59:06
that I I agree I think that that you
59:09
know if the more that we show that we’re
59:11
actually caring loving people
59:13
you have Brent de Ridder who’s you know
59:15
helping people you know helping set up
59:17
something where the the Liberty
59:19
Coalition for disaster relief I hope I’m
59:21
saying that correctly we’re when
59:23
disasters happen basically rednecks
59:25
would truck show up and and and boats
59:28
show up and help and rescue people
59:30
without any you know any intrusion by
59:33
the government it’s that kind of stuff
59:35
that’s gonna make people say oh wow yeah
59:38
no I guess we don’t need government cuz
59:39
this will happen Domino’s you know
59:41
fixing potholes like this this is
59:43
that you know makes oh yeah be nice to
59:45
each other guys again thank you guys for
59:47
coming on if you can stick around I want
59:49
to talk to you during the outro
59:50
but guys thank you again for tuning can
59:52
I hey yeah go ahead go ahead
59:53
can I get yeah I’d like to give one
59:55
shout-out because you reminded me of a
59:56
great organization actually the
59:57
libertarian international mutual aid
60:00
coalition it’s like a group of
60:01
anarchists ranging the economic spectrum
60:04
that are working to do good things
60:05
across the country so check them out
60:06
yeah absolutely
60:08
very cool so guys thanks again for
60:10
tuning in to my fellow Americans or my
60:12
fellow fake Rotarians actually it was
60:14
this episode um we hope that you enjoyed
60:16
it
60:16
tune in tomorrow for the writer’s block
60:20
with Matt Wright he is interviewing just
60:25
an amazing guest I was told many times
60:29
who it is but he’s great you’re gonna
60:32
love it
60:32
you you won’t believe who it’s gonna be
60:34
uh and then Friday I don’t know if Jason
60:37
and his wife Kelsey are still on baby
60:39
watch she’s gonna burst any minute so I
60:42
don’t know if he’s doing his show on
60:44
Friday cuz he seems to be prioritizing
60:46
his family over the show which you know
60:49
whatever that’s his thing so he may or
60:53
may not have a Shabbat episode of mr.
60:55
America the beard of truth but we shall
60:57
see then have a great weekend Monday
60:59
same thing do not know if Jason is
61:01
coming back or if like his whole this
61:04
whole baby thing is gonna like be
61:06
important to him or whatever but we’ll
61:07
see and then on Tuesday at 8 p.m.
61:11
be sure to tune in to the muddy waters
61:13
of freedom with me and Matt right as we
61:15
parse through the week’s news with the
61:17
reverence and joy of a of a young virgin
61:20
child and I will try my best to stay
61:22
awake this time I kept falling asleep
61:24
last night and I apologize for that but
61:27
be sure to tune in for that and then Oh
61:30
actually know I’m wrong so next next
61:33
Tuesday is next Tuesday and Wednesday
61:36
dem again to intersectional Boogaloo
61:39
which is the Democrat debates that will
61:43
no doubt be dominated by one Marianne
61:45
Williamson and we will be there to
61:48
livestream it and react it’s like
61:50
Mystery Science Theater 3000 except the
61:54
sci-fi monsters are all Democrats so
61:58
be sure to tune in to that thank you
62:00
guys again for tuning in and god bless
62:03
you
62:03
[Music]