(((My Fellow Americans))) #40: Political Devil Worship with Remso Martinez

Remso Martinez


About This Episode


Spike is wrapping up Gay Pride Month by bringing on Matt’s former arch-nemesis Remso Martinez on. Remso is a political operative and author of the book Stay Away From The Libertarians. He also has a new upcoming book called How to Succeed In Politics (and Other Forms of Devil Worship). We talk about that and also make fun of Matt a lot.

Remso on Facebook

Intro & Outro Music by JoDavi.


Episode Transcript

DISCLOSURE
This episode transcript is auto-generated and a provided as a service to the hearing impaired. We apologize for any errors or inaccuracies.
FULL TRANSCRIPT TEXT
02:04
[Music]
02:09
and now live from beautiful Myrtle Beach
02:13
South Carolina you’re watching my fellow
02:17
Americans with your host Spike Cohen
02:18
yes yes it’s me thank
02:30
you so much keep clapping clap for the
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miracle how would we know that you
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wanted the miracle if you didn’t keep
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clapping welcome to my fellow Americans
02:43
I am literally spike Cohen thank you
02:45
again for joining me tonight
02:47
June the I don’t even know what day it
02:49
is June the 26th two days before my
02:51
birthday thank you again for joining us
02:54
this is our last episode for Gay Pride
02:57
Month and so I’d just like to close out
03:00
by telling all of my LGBT followers just
03:03
how proud I am of you you did it great
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that I’m drinking because I’m in Canada
04:27
that is good Canadian water
04:29
shoutout to Tehran Turks is momentum as
04:31
always guys before I introduce my guest
04:33
tonight I just want to talk again about
04:34
a really cool initiative that’s being
04:36
undertaken by an co-sponsored by muddy
04:39
waters media and stateside kava bar down
04:41
in Tampa Bay Florida called Operation
04:43
p.o box it’s a really cool thing we are
04:45
helping so apparently in Florida there’s
04:49
a huge homeless problem and in order for
04:51
the homeless to get jobs they have to
04:53
have an ID well it’s hard to get an ID
04:56
without an address and it’s hard to get
04:58
an address without a job and it’s hard
05:01
to get a job that an ID and it’s just
05:03
sort of this vicious cycle so what we’re
05:05
doing for them with Operation p.o box
05:06
we’re actually getting peel boxes for
05:09
them and that way they’re able to get an
05:12
ID and get a job also we will with their
05:15
permission we will publish their peel
05:18
boxes so that people can mail them
05:20
donations like they can mail money they
05:23
can mail on pry not money don’t give
05:25
them money but they can you can mail
05:26
gift cards you can mail clothing you can
05:28
mail notes of encouragement job offers
05:29
whatever you want to mail them and and
05:31
that’s really cool so Operation p.o box
05:33
if you want to make we’re still really
05:36
getting started right now we’re in the
05:38
early stages so we’ll soon have peel
05:41
boxes to share with people in the
05:42
meantime if you wanted to make a
05:43
donation you can do so by sending
05:45
donations through PayPal to operation P
05:48
o box at gmail.com if you have any other
05:51
questions feel free to inbox us on
05:54
whatever you’re listening to or watching
05:57
this on or you can email us at muddied
06:00
waters of freedom at gmail.com and for
06:05
more information on that so without
06:07
further adieu guys I’m really whelmed to
06:13
introduce my guest tonight he is a
06:15
former arch-nemesis of mine and Matt’s
06:17
really of Matt’s and I got sucked into
06:19
it but now we’re totally friends for
06:21
some reason I’ve really not 1% sure what
06:24
that was all about but he is a political
06:26
operative and author who has worked for
06:28
the young Americans for Liberty and on
06:30
various political campaigns he’s also
06:32
the author of stay away from the Liberty
06:35
and he will soon be releasing his new
06:37
book how to succeed in politics and
06:39
other forms of devil-worship ladies and
06:42
gentlemen please welcome to my fellow
06:44
Americans
06:44
mr. Renzo Martinez from so thank you so
06:47
much for joining us tonight Thank You
06:49
Zhu I appreciate it thank you for having
06:51
me on
06:52
you mean that International wondered
06:54
whether or not this would happen your
06:55
God cut me off right now you’re gonna
06:56
start cutting me off immediately I knew
06:58
this was a bad idea but you see this is
07:00
what you do you extend the hand of
07:01
friendship out and they smack you every
07:03
time look at me Andre thank you for
07:05
having me on Spike it’s pleasure to be
07:07
with you I am so happy to have you on
07:08
I’d like to take this opportunity to say
07:11
that I have no idea as to why we were
07:12
enemies 100% sure how or when that even
07:15
ended either it was just kind of weird I
07:17
just kind of tend to attack first and
07:20
love later it’s a really twisted thing
07:22
am i chemically imbalanced brain but you
07:23
know it were just worked for a little
07:25
while and we’re in the love cycle so I
07:26
do accept your apology and I’m glad that
07:28
we could move on from that
07:29
and guys be sure to comment with your
07:31
questions and thoughts and REMS oh and I
07:33
will tell you if you are right or wrong
07:35
now REM so the first question that I
07:37
ever asked new guests to my show is how
07:40
do you would you say you reached your
07:41
political beliefs would you say that was
07:43
an aha moment sort of a gradual
07:45
evolution tell it tell us about that
07:47
absolutely a you know it’s definitely
07:50
gradual from when I first started
07:52
questioning whether or not everything
07:54
was okay in our beautiful American
07:56
society where I am now and now I’m
07:58
looking for a you know a doomsday bunker
08:00
out in the Midwest you know things have
08:02
definitely gradually changed but it all
08:05
really started for me back in 2012 I
08:08
tend to concern myself Mitt Romney’s
08:10
worst volunteer you see before I kid
08:12
knock on a single door make a phone call
08:14
look cute like a young Latino boy would
08:17
for a Republican I realized wow this guy
08:20
sounds like Obama he sounds like just a
08:23
really white rich Obama right and then I
08:25
did well I you know experience of many
08:28
women later as I became an adult i got
08:30
you know i-i-i ghosted the mitt romney
08:32
campaign and from there I started
08:35
learning about this guy named Ron Paul
08:36
heard the strange dude Gary Johnson who
08:39
said he was a librarian there’s
08:40
something on the news and everything
08:42
from there just got strange and you know
08:44
years later Here I am talking to you
08:46
nice which is I mean really
08:49
here’s the reality you know you’ve
08:51
arrived when you’re speaking to a Jew in
08:54
his basement and that’s really I mean it
08:57
really is like that’s that’s there’s
08:59
different levels in the top level is
09:01
conversing online with the random Jew
09:05
it’s like the reverse and Frank you’re
09:08
in a basement and we’re talking to the
09:09
world so that’s a yes that is how we’re
09:14
gonna start this show and Frank jokes
09:15
absolutely
09:16
so okay cool so I’ve done extensive
09:19
research on you which I’ve written on
09:22
this year post-it note let me take a
09:24
look here okay then sophisticated so it
09:27
says that you are a Mexican what’s that
09:32
like it’s all right I guess is there but
09:38
like I know I’m on this side of the wall
09:41
so I can’t complain see that’s a good
09:43
point that is a good point now if you
09:44
had to describe what kind of Mexican you
09:46
are what would what would that be
09:48
apparently we’re Puerto Ricans ah no you
09:52
know we have to cross you know a golf
09:54
instead of a river which means that we
09:56
really deserve to be in this country but
09:59
apparently we’re also American citizens
10:01
and if you live on the islands you don’t
10:02
have to pay taxes but the downside is
10:04
the island sucks so but does it yeah
10:08
okay but but here’s what I know about
10:12
Puerto Rico from my extensive time of
10:14
being there on vacation you have the
10:16
bioluminescent beaches you have really
10:20
good food you had the mofongo the word
10:23
the word hurricane originates the word
10:27
barbecue also originates from there so
10:29
those really those four things alone I
10:33
mean what’s what’s the problem what’s
10:35
problem the island murder crime poverty
10:40
no electricity the basics I mean you
10:45
know we’re above you know what some
10:48
would deem a shithole so we’re doing
10:49
pretty well but you know at least we’re
10:51
better than Mexicans yes that’s what
10:56
we’re also going with so okay good so
10:58
we’ve established that now you worked on
11:02
you were
11:03
with young Americans for liberty as I
11:04
mentioned before he worked on I believe
11:05
the Nick Freitas campaign I assume I’ve
11:08
said that name wrong as it was afraid us
11:11
free free sites right this
11:13
oh right us nailed it you’ve worked on
11:15
other efforts as well how would you say
11:17
those experiences have influenced what
11:20
appears to be a level of cynicism about
11:23
politics that you seem to be exerting
11:26
well since I quit all that I’m a
11:29
recovering alcoholic so you know that
11:31
kind of makes it a little bit better but
11:33
in all seriousness I mean pop politics
11:36
is a blood sport yeah and we tend to
11:40
have this very contorted old-fashioned
11:43
view of how politics in America should
11:45
be but the very very sad truth is that
11:48
politics in America has never been clean
11:50
it’s never been friendly and it’s not
11:52
any worse or better now than it ever has
11:54
been if anything I think we’re just a
11:55
bit more honest with each other it used
11:57
to be that if you’re going to go out and
11:59
say you hate someone you better be
12:00
making money now no one’s making money
12:03
from it which you know coming from a
12:05
professional standpoint I think is very
12:07
very poor marketing if you’re going to
12:08
call somebody a racist you might as well
12:10
put a fundraising link at the bottom of
12:12
the screen right all right you know gets
12:16
to the point where everyone has to ask
12:17
what is the cost of success if you lose
12:20
yourself in the process
12:21
and what I have experienced as so many
12:24
other political operatives is a very
12:27
fundamental question what does winning
12:29
look like because are you just going the
12:32
pay you know or just going the paces
12:34
that you knew more you normally do do
12:36
you just run from campaign the campaign
12:37
to campaign what happens when you start
12:39
you know actually making policy do you
12:42
just forget about all of that there
12:45
seems to be a class of American
12:46
political how they put them there there
12:50
they I won’t call them the elite because
12:52
that that gives a lot of them too much
12:54
credit they’re just politically fallible
12:57
while thinking they’re politically
12:59
affluent but you have a lot of people
13:01
that just don’t want this to ends they
13:03
don’t want to make decisions and
13:04
policies that actually help people they
13:06
don’t want to actually listen to other
13:07
people across the aisle they don’t want
13:08
to do things that would in any way to
13:10
evolve power from themselves to regular
13:13
people so I had to ask
13:16
is this a lifestyle that I want to live
13:18
in and you know it got to the point
13:20
where I was like no this isn’t the life
13:22
I was going to live and around that
13:24
point I discovered that in November of
13:27
2018 there were several other friends of
13:29
mine who were in the same career field
13:31
that also reach the same conclusions and
13:33
they left now I say Amen all politics
13:35
everywhere is just bad and you should
13:37
leave I’m not necessarily saying that
13:39
but what we all do is we all go our
13:41
length and we’re all going to encounter
13:43
that day in time where we have to ask
13:45
have we have we fallen too far into it
13:48
to the point where we could never leave
13:50
this life and that was essentially the
13:53
overall premise of my book how far is
13:55
someone willing to succeed in politics
13:57
at the cost of their own life fair
14:00
enough now to be fair I have very strict
14:04
show notes and we’re not talking about
14:05
your book yet no we can we can do it
14:07
however we want to do it uh the but
14:10
first I want to talk about your first
14:11
book so you wrote stay away from the
14:14
libertarians when what year did you
14:16
write that 2018 okay so it’s late okay
14:18
was last year so you’re just a prolific
14:20
Brooke writer then I have no life so
14:25
you’re pulling a prolific book writer
14:27
that’s that that’s the nicer way of
14:28
saying you have no life absolutely
14:30
you’re so kind
14:31
prose people would just say anything
14:35
else but yeah that works I try to say
14:37
nice things so in your in your
14:40
description you say that this book stay
14:42
away from the libertarians which I love
14:44
I love this title no one’s gonna hear
14:46
you right now by the way cuz we’re on
14:47
the wrong scene and no one’s gonna hear
14:49
you but they can hear you know and
14:50
anyway in that in that book it says that
14:53
it debunks the myths misconceptions and
14:56
outright lies thrown at libertarians
14:58
ranging from the idea that votes can be
15:00
stolen to the radical notion that you
15:02
own yourself now was this sort of now
15:05
you were working on libertarian and
15:08
Republican campaigns or just on
15:09
Republican campaigns or how was that
15:11
working I’m bit of a whore I worked for
15:14
anyone who could pay and some people who
15:16
wouldn’t pay because I just wanted to
15:17
fund you know the big thing that a lot
15:20
of people within this Liberty sphere
15:22
tend to understand is that your
15:23
alliances are loose and your friendships
15:25
are fleeting so you might as well go
15:26
where you think you’re going to go ahead
15:28
and make the maximum impact
15:30
you know I’ve been a Republican I’ve
15:32
been dependent I’ve been a libertarian
15:34
it’s all about where you think you’re
15:35
going to go ahead and make the best
15:38
impact on other people’s lives and when
15:40
it came to this book you know for years
15:42
we allowed many people to go ahead and
15:45
tell our story for us and most of the
15:48
time it was never accurate it got to the
15:50
point where essentially I was sitting
15:52
down one day watching the news and I was
15:53
like you know motherfucker if you’re
15:55
gonna go ahead and insult me at least be
15:57
accurate about it because there are some
15:59
very valid points you could use to me to
16:01
attack me you might as well go for the
16:03
facts and not for some outright lies
16:05
right so yeah so stay away from the
16:07
libertarians basically runs on that
16:09
premise of you know what are these lies
16:11
that these lazy politicians these
16:14
bullshit academics and these fake news
16:15
media types and louny politicians like
16:19
what are they using to attack us with
16:21
that’s created this anti libertarian
16:23
narrative throughout the country and
16:24
what’s the truth because I think a lot
16:26
of libertarians aren’t necessarily even
16:28
armed with the facts on their side most
16:30
time they’re playing from defense when
16:31
in fact they should be playing offense
16:33
so my book covers those points and I
16:35
take it from a bit of a autobiographical
16:38
type of way out because these are
16:41
questions and these are stereotyped so I
16:43
had to encounter the further I got into
16:45
politics very good yeah and so far we
16:48
actually we have a comment from Lindsey
16:50
Nicole she says I like this guy so far
16:53
anyway so you are on thin ice with
16:55
Lindsey Nicole you’re on a probationary
16:56
period we’ll see how that goes but ya
17:01
know it’s it’s kind of crazy because it
17:03
seems like you have one of two choices
17:05
and I noticed this in your second book
17:07
which again we’re not talking about yet
17:08
but the the it’s you sort of have one of
17:12
two choices if you’re in the Liberty
17:14
sphere in electoral politics you can
17:18
mount a very principled campaign and
17:20
lose really bad or you can sacrifice
17:24
your everything principles morals
17:29
anything that made you resemble who was
17:33
a person that someone would love and
17:35
possibly win maybe fifty-fifty on
17:37
winning and and sort of lose yourself in
17:39
the process do you think in the and I
17:43
know we’re in
17:43
democracy were republic what do you
17:45
think at our democratic style of
17:47
electing people do you think that
17:49
there’s actually a way to not sell
17:55
yourself out and be principled and win
17:58
in any real way or do you think it
17:59
should that’s just baked into the cake
18:00
so I want to go ahead and break this
18:03
down into two points so I’ll cover the
18:05
first statement you made whereas if you
18:08
run as a big yellow libertarian you’re
18:10
going to run a principled campaign and
18:11
just get completely smashed in the
18:13
process and if you run in one of the two
18:15
major parties you’re gonna end up
18:16
selling out at some point
18:18
well or or or if you run as I was
18:21
thinking yes as a big ol libertarian or
18:23
even as a Liberty a Liberty Republican
18:26
or a hardcore constitutionalist
18:28
Republican I I don’t think anything is
18:30
necessarily mutually exclusive I think
18:32
that once your name is on the ballot and
18:34
you start giving stump speeches you’re
18:36
going to encounter these problems
18:37
irregardless I’ll tell you a quick story
18:39
when I first started off in a you know
18:42
in I call it podcast journalism so to
18:45
speak back in 2016-2017 I have a guest
18:48
on my show who was a prolific journalist
18:50
over in Canada she since kind of gone
18:53
into hiding because of some issues over
18:55
there
18:56
with the press in Canada but she she
18:59
made some statements about Islam on my
19:02
show now I’ll tend to really touch
19:04
certain topics I don’t talk about
19:07
religion much I don’t cover Foreign
19:09
Affairs and when it comes to you know
19:11
certain gender issues it’s just not
19:13
nothing I really talk about stuff I
19:14
don’t have my opinion it’s just that
19:16
it’s not really my wheelhouse so I
19:17
allowed her to make the statement
19:19
because you know she needs to make a
19:21
point and I deeply believe that
19:23
conversation isn’t the cosine so you can
19:26
have conversations with people and just
19:27
talk you’ll have to agree with anything
19:29
but I had this one libertarian candidate
19:31
who was running for House of Delegates
19:32
in Virginia he was going to come on my
19:34
show the next day say that because
19:37
because I had her on my show and I
19:41
didn’t disagree with something she said
19:43
or stopper on something she said there’s
19:45
something I don’t even quite remember I
19:48
was in essence advocating for what she
19:53
said and that he wanted nothing to do
19:54
with me because I would make him look
19:55
bad now for the record I was the only
19:57
person I was no one at the time the only
20:00
type of media figure within the state of
20:02
Virginia that had the ears of voters in
20:05
my district I reached out to him so he
20:08
played the PC cards very fast but you
20:11
know we’ve had libertarian candidates
20:13
we’ve had small OU libertarians with
20:16
whatever title you want call yourself
20:18
these problems always turn up I had a
20:21
candidate during my first race the
20:23
Secretary of the State Libertarian Party
20:25
donated $50 and said you guys are
20:28
running a crap Republican Lite campaign
20:30
if you want this money to keep coming
20:32
you better to do what I want you to do
20:34
and that was like motherfucker that’s
20:35
not enough money I need something you
20:37
know I need to be bought and wooed a bit
20:39
more than just thirty bucks a month
20:41
right and I mean people think they could
20:44
throw that at you and you know I do know
20:45
some campaigns where they were like Oh
20:47
$30 a month okay because they sucks but
20:51
you’re not getting anywhere with that
20:52
kind of money yeah yeah I mean politics
20:55
you know it’s it treats everyone the
20:57
same it hates you so I think regardless
21:00
of party or regardless of seat
21:02
regardless of ideology you know the
21:05
problems are the same what do you do
21:06
when you’re tempted with taking a
21:09
shortcut where do you do when you can
21:11
turn a blind eye to something what do
21:13
you do when someone offers you a really
21:16
good deal in exchange for you to make a
21:18
decision that the people that put you in
21:20
power don’t want you to make you know
21:22
these are decisions that people have
21:24
been dealing with since the beginning of
21:26
time and regardless of partisan stripe
21:30
decade or person everyone has to
21:33
encounter these and they have to
21:34
confront them in their own way and in
21:37
that same vein why would you say why do
21:39
you think libertarians especially very
21:42
principled libertarians tend to lose
21:43
elections and how much personal
21:45
responsibility do you take for that I
21:48
split it in the kind of two spheres I
21:51
look at I call it the rules of the game
21:53
and I think we need to admit that the
21:55
rules of the game are typically rigged
21:57
against us it’s primarily when we’re
21:59
looking at federal offices when it comes
22:01
to state-level seats it’s very easy
22:03
again on the ballot but when it comes to
22:05
federal offices such as House
22:07
representatives or US Senate it can
22:08
become extremely difficult to even
22:11
you know make that barrier to entry and
22:13
then I think what we need to understand
22:15
is that regardless of whether or not
22:17
you’re in a very red district or a very
22:18
blue district you’re dealing with people
22:20
that don’t understand libertarian
22:22
worldview at all let’s just really
22:24
consider this nobody was born a
22:26
libertarian nonetheless became a
22:28
libertarian and so they were probably
22:29
much older
22:30
I think Millennials are a bit different
22:32
of a case because I was 17 for example
22:35
when I started first learning about
22:36
libertarian principles and there are
22:38
many people around my age demographic
22:40
that got it when they were in their mid
22:42
to late teens so this is more of a
22:44
recent thing we’re seeing but it
22:45
probably won’t be much of an effect in
22:47
electoral politics for another
22:49
generation right exactly so yeah so by
22:52
dealing with that thing I mean how can
22:53
you tell people that they’re slaves when
22:55
they don’t even understand that I mean I
22:58
think we’re dealing with just the fact
22:59
that you know just the rules of the game
23:01
are eggs but the people that are
23:02
supposed to be on our side the people
23:04
that we’re supposed to be advocating for
23:05
us I mean were the people that we’re
23:07
supposed to be advocating for they don’t
23:09
even know what we’re talking about it’s
23:10
almost like a different language
23:11
entirely it you know I think that sense
23:14
you know you’re kind of you’re kind of
23:16
doomed yeah it you can try really hard
23:18
but you know you’re it’s always gonna be
23:20
uphill you’re always starting out at a
23:22
disadvantage irregardless yeah it is it
23:25
is it that’s a good way to describe me
23:27
it is sometimes you’ll say something to
23:29
someone and they’ll go I don’t even
23:30
understand what you just said and it’s
23:32
like literally you’re speaking another
23:33
language to them now what is your least
23:35
favorite thing about Matt his face
23:40
that’s just I know it’s it’s matt face
23:45
no I know I know like he’s a good person
23:48
but his face hurts the eyes of children
23:49
yeah as I’ve been told
23:51
yeah yeah he’s the opposite so when you
23:53
have people and they’re like well yeah
23:55
she’s heavy but she’s got a pretty face
23:57
he’s kind of the exact opposite of that
23:58
a beautiful personality can only make
24:01
for so much there’s ugly people then
24:03
they’re painful people to look at yeah
24:05
I’d say my least favorite thing I don’t
24:07
like the fact that he removed the giant
24:09
cyst from his head I was enjoying
24:12
watching it that gave him so much
24:14
character it was it was the thing right
24:15
and like I didn’t know I thought that
24:18
was just his thing like he just had a
24:19
matt horn or something and I’m like cool
24:22
I’m co-hosting a show with a guy
24:25
like a new like a twin that conjoined
24:28
twin from inside or something something
24:29
and then I thought he was a make-a-wish
24:32
kid survivor and then he’s like I know
24:39
it’s a system having it removed and I’m
24:41
like well do they have to and he said no
24:45
and I’m like oh so talking about you do
24:48
that yeah it was all about him what a
24:53
selfish selfish little man it’s folks
24:56
he’s also five five so he’s got that
24:58
little piece and complex going to which
25:01
is just not working for him yeah it was
25:04
I just I just you could be short or you
25:07
can be painful to look at but when
25:09
you’re both you have to decide which one
25:11
you want to fix and you’ve lost your
25:13
distraction and it’s you know it’s sad
25:16
it’s like oh it’s smooth now you’re a
25:18
midget and you’re painful to look at
25:20
it’s very sad but I’ll tell you what
25:22
isn’t sad guys a core FM if you’re
25:24
looking to make a podcast anchor is the
25:26
easiest way I know you know what this is
25:27
like
25:28
Aker is the easiest way to make a
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25:34
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25:40
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everywhere
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Spotify Apple podcast Google podcasts
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all the different things that puts them
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everywhere and you can even make money
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from your podcast with no minimum
25:53
listenership and that is a real thing
25:55
that exists so you can definitely do
25:57
that if you are interested in doing so
25:59
download the anchor app or go to anchor
26:02
dot FM to get started and let us know
26:04
and we’ll follow you and you better damn
26:06
well follow us too now speaking of
26:07
podcast on anchor fm you have a podcast
26:10
on a core FM right the rims of Martinez
26:12
experience tell us about that so
26:14
originally back in 2016 I realized one
26:18
day I was broke and very opinionated so
26:20
I might as well find a way to make money
26:21
off opinions and quite frankly I didn’t
26:24
want to go work at Dairy Queen like some
26:25
of my friends so my brother Ryan who was
26:28
my roommate at the time I looked at him
26:30
and I said I know how to talk very well
26:32
and you know computers and I don’t know
26:35
crap about computers let’s start a
26:36
podcast so we started a pocket
26:38
sera dorm it was called originally to
26:41
REMSA Republic and it went from just me
26:43
bullshitting of people to being
26:45
eventually I think it was in the year
26:47
2017 number 25 and news of politics on
26:50
iTunes in North America so things not
26:53
real hot and heavy for a minute and then
26:55
everything else has just been crazy
26:58
since because of that show we’ve had you
27:01
know opportunities to do spin-off
27:03
documentaries I did a documentary about
27:04
Nick Freitas called American Statesman
27:07
and Nick Frey the story we did a bunch
27:09
of spin-off so to speak with a series
27:11
called Haunted Republic which eventually
27:13
got picked up as a TV show called the
27:15
witching hour which we’re filming for
27:17
season two right now and in January of
27:20
2019 I brought back the cop the podcast
27:23
after about a six-month hiatus and
27:25
rebrand is the REMSA Martinez experience
27:28
so that way we could take all these
27:29
crazy stories and stuff that we
27:31
encounter and just kind of move past
27:32
politics just attack life in general
27:34
yeah I saw where you were trying to I
27:37
watched listen to the one where you were
27:39
explaining why um Oh Jay Simpson was
27:43
more trustworthy than well you
27:45
specifically you called out Alexandra
27:47
occasional Cortez but really than any
27:49
politics what why why are you saying it
27:51
like you wouldn’t choose oj / ioc yeah
27:53
no i it was a compelling after I
27:55
listened I’m like yeah I mean he did he
28:00
only murdered two people and I mean he
28:04
was good to his get up well I do his
28:05
kids he was good he was a good dad to
28:07
his kids his kids loved him you know he
28:10
went to jail for getting his own stuff
28:12
back the way I see it he was a political
28:16
prisoner at that point Mele was everyone
28:19
was so bad being a black man in America
28:22
yeah that really was what it was he was
28:25
a black guy with with a nice car and
28:27
they went no you go to jail for that
28:29
listen you go to jail for getting your
28:32
own stuff and served like the maximum
28:35
sentence on good behavior there that’s
28:38
that white America was mad he got away
28:40
with murdering their favorite white
28:42
woman that they didn’t know until she
28:43
was murdered and did you know changed my
28:45
mind everyone becomes a saint after
28:47
they’re dead that’s why it’s act John
28:49
McCain
28:52
this was her fault okay so ya know after
28:56
listening I was like you know what I’d
28:58
vote for him I love that he’s on Twitter
29:00
and that makes me infinitely happy and
29:04
uh and this is why I do it folks I do it
29:07
because I’m a man of the people
29:09
ya know I definitely got that vibe I
29:11
definitely got that vibe so we are now
29:12
going to talk about your book we’re now
29:14
allowed to talk about your book I’m
29:16
gonna show it again no one’s gonna hear
29:17
you no one’s gonna hear you how to
29:18
succeed in politics and other forms of
29:21
devil-worship now confession time I only
29:25
got about a third of the way through
29:26
your book I told you I’d read the whole
29:28
thing instead I ended up doing like
29:31
stuff my wife told me needed to be done
29:34
today so I did I got about a third of
29:37
the way through the book but I think I
29:39
have a pretty decent grip on um where
29:41
you were going with it I’m sure I’m
29:42
gonna I’m gonna finish reading it and
29:44
I’m sure I’m gonna absolutely love it
29:46
and I don’t want to give away too much
29:47
anyway but tell us about the book and
29:49
and and tell us about how your I guess
29:54
how your experience is fed into well
29:56
tell us about the book I don’t wanna
29:57
give away too much yeah so essentially
29:59
the book is one that one of the most I
30:04
can’t like put it but this book covers
30:07
the questions that people have been
30:08
asking themselves for generations how
30:11
far are you willing to go to succeed if
30:13
you lose yourself in the process
30:14
and I use the realm of politics in order
30:17
to really kind of express that so what I
30:19
wanted to do originally I wanted to do
30:21
bit of a tell-all book about my time as
30:24
a political consultant but what I didn’t
30:26
want to do was I didn’t want to get to
30:28
down and emotional like in the weeds of
30:31
it so to speak right and just turn into
30:33
a bitchfest so I thought how do I take
30:36
the lesson I’m trying to tell people and
30:40
make it in a way which is compelling and
30:42
informative and engaging it actually
30:43
makes them ask these questions so the
30:45
book is about two people one is a
30:47
fictional character that takes place in
30:49
modern times named art Brown he’s a
30:51
political consultant who works for a
30:54
couple successful people and the moment
30:56
he thinks he’s gone go ahead and ride
30:58
that chariot of Fame and power over to
31:01
DC he finds himself kicked back on his
31:03
ass and figuring out what to do and what
31:05
he ends up doing is working for
31:06
some not so trustworthy people and in
31:09
the meantime between our story I have a
31:12
historic element a nonfiction element
31:15
about one of I think probably the most
31:18
influential politicians perhaps the most
31:21
influential political loser of the 20th
31:24
century and villain of the civil rights
31:26
movement George Wallace and I chose
31:30
George Wallace specifically because if
31:32
you want to look at probably the closest
31:34
thing to the American version of a Greek
31:35
tragedy George Wallace really does
31:38
embody that because here you have a
31:39
person who grew up in the sticks who
31:41
grew up amongst African Americans who
31:44
was a progressive judge who was endorsed
31:46
by the n-double-a-cp the first time he
31:47
ran for governor he winds up being the
31:49
guy who’s known as the most dried
31:52
hardcore segregationist of America now
31:54
the thing is we don’t get to choose how
31:57
history looks at us and in terms of
31:59
Wallace we remember him as being that
32:01
villain but the thing that people don’t
32:03
often understand is that there was a
32:05
life after 1963 and the life George
32:08
Wallace led was way more complicated
32:11
than anyone could ever imagine and he
32:13
ended up dying what I believe to be a
32:15
very different person so what I do is I
32:18
basically try and take the veneer off of
32:20
politics you know the wolf of Wall
32:22
Street taught style parties we tend to
32:24
think go on and I really let people know
32:26
you know what happens to the losers what
32:28
happens to the people who were you know
32:29
down and out and what happens when they
32:33
have to choose between finding success
32:35
by any means necessary and in finding
32:38
their humanity
32:39
yeah it was very cool iii-it’s
32:41
interestingly enough it was less than a
32:45
year ago that I first I knew George
32:47
Wallace I knew his story as you know
32:50
once he was a prominent name in the 60s
32:53
we all know that the you know famous
32:56
segregation now segregation then
32:58
segregation now segregation forever and
33:01
or segregation now segregation tomorrow
33:03
segregation forever he was he wasn’t
33:06
just a main villain in the segregation
33:09
you know Pro segregation side he was the
33:13
face and and now especially historically
33:15
is the first person people think of if
33:19
they’re you know
33:20
intimately knowledgeable about that time
33:22
when they think about you know the anti
33:24
civil rights movement the people that
33:26
wanted to keep it that way and yet you
33:28
know I learned last year like you said
33:30
he was a progressive judge he called out
33:33
people who you know uh people in his
33:37
court who were disrespectful to black
33:39
people he was incredibly not just
33:42
anti-racist but a progressive
33:44
anti-racist and not just an anti racist
33:47
but also I mean he was in many ways the
33:51
1960s version of the closest you could
33:53
get to a Bernie Sanders or an Alexandra
33:56
occasional cortes or or you know when
33:59
you think the sweetie you know that’s
34:00
probably one of the best ways to
34:02
describe him I haven’t put it that way
34:04
but you’re absolutely spot-on about that
34:06
like he was as progressive and by that I
34:11
mean way more progressive you than you
34:13
would expect a successful politician to
34:16
be in 1950s and 1960s Alabama um exactly
34:21
what it was an Arkansas it was Alabama
34:23
right Alabama
34:25
yeah Alabama yeah and and and for him
34:27
too then for essentially for political
34:30
reasons to morph into let’s not confuse
34:34
it they were a hundred percent political
34:37
reasons yeah and that’s the scary thing
34:40
because this wasn’t a man that did
34:42
things by accident he was an incredibly
34:43
intelligent person he did everything
34:46
intentionally and that’s the terrifying
34:48
thing about it that is cynical as hell
34:51
that is the equivalent if we’re going
34:53
back to Anne Frank that is the political
34:55
equivalent of someone who starts off as
34:58
like you know a half Jewish anti-nazi
35:02
politician and by the time the things
35:04
done he’s one of the people helping
35:06
craft the final solution like it’s that
35:07
it’s not obviously not that extreme in
35:10
terms of outcome but it’s that extreme
35:12
in terms of going from being the fighter
35:14
on this side to being the fight to being
35:17
the head of the fighting on this on the
35:20
opposite side entirely for politics like
35:22
literally just to win politically if you
35:25
want to talk about you know selling your
35:27
soul to win elections that’s as that is
35:29
as as as it wasn’t he didn’t change his
35:32
mind about these things
35:34
he just did it for to win just to win
35:37
elections yeah
35:40
and sadly this is something that people
35:43
were doing before him and this is what
35:45
people were doing after him it’s what
35:47
people are doing now the difference is
35:49
the lens in which we look at people and
35:53
history I mean that here’s here’s a
35:55
strange thing about immortality it’s all
35:58
in history and it’s all about who’s
35:59
telling it and with George Wallace like
36:02
he did some good things for people but
36:04
we never talk about those no because if
36:07
you do that then what are you you’re
36:09
you’re you’re all these terrible things
36:11
I can’t look at history objectively but
36:14
sadly what it does show is that you know
36:17
he doesn’t get to tell his narrative he
36:19
doesn’t get to try and course-correct
36:21
how people see him he tried to towards
36:24
the latter years of his life which is
36:25
why talk about in the book and I really
36:27
try and emphasize the 1972 election when
36:31
he was at one point one of the
36:32
Democratic frontrunners people don’t
36:34
often remember that George Wallace ran
36:35
again for president 1972 many people
36:37
know that he was the most successful
36:39
third party candidate of the 20th
36:41
century in 1968 when he ran against
36:43
Humphrey and Nixon but in 1972 the
36:47
Democratic Party almost elected him the
36:48
you know the one thing that took him
36:50
down was a bullet from a failed
36:53
assassin’s gun but his life after that
36:56
his life confined to a wheelchair if
36:58
something very few people for a few
37:00
between ever really look at and that’s
37:02
the part of his life where I call it you
37:04
know the the third act of Wallace yeah
37:07
what do you do when you can’t fix
37:08
anything you’re watching it all happen
37:10
and you know everything that you wanted
37:14
in life is basically destroyed and you
37:17
want to do about that and you were a
37:18
large catalyst for a lot of the things
37:20
that you don’t like seeing happen like
37:23
you were one of the biggest engines for
37:25
those things moving for it it’s it’s
37:27
really incredible and I like how you at
37:29
least for the third that I read how you
37:31
kind of weaved both we even we’ve been
37:34
woven how you move between you
37:38
transition between the story about about
37:42
the political operative art art Brown
37:44
right yeah art Brown the the the Puerto
37:47
Rican
37:48
libertΓ© leaning a political operative no
37:52
idea where that the ark if you go
37:56
farther in the book you’ll learn he’s
37:57
part two Yubin so are you park human no
38:01
I’m not oh okay he’s not Brad as a
38:03
fictitious characters Cheerilee fiction
38:07
I moved that was me that was a racial
38:09
thing on my part and I apologize for he
38:12
yeah he so I like how you weave between
38:15
his story and between and between the
38:19
the story of Wallace I’m definitely
38:20
gonna finish it cuz I was I was I was
38:23
really getting it and I was thinking
38:25
okay I’m gonna add a nap so I can have
38:27
it read the rest of it to me while I’m
38:28
doing stuff in that just that didn’t
38:29
happen for many reasons but um I don’t
38:32
want to give away too much and I’ll let
38:33
you decide how much you want to you want
38:35
to do but one thing I liked was his the
38:38
position between what he was doing in
38:42
his career and what he actually did with
38:45
like his actual voting himself I don’t
38:48
know again I don’t know how much you
38:49
want to talk about that but but tell me
38:51
whatever you want to tell me about that
38:53
particularly yeah well I wanted to do
38:55
with art was I wanted to shed a light on
38:58
probably the most dangerous cottage
39:00
industry in America it’s the full-time
39:02
professional political consultant these
39:04
are the people that sit between bankers
39:07
prostitutes priests and politicians and
39:10
they’re probably the most dangerous
39:12
people in America because you don’t
39:14
often know their names and when you do
39:16
know their names their names like Corey
39:17
Lewandowski and David Axelrod yeah what
39:21
we wish to America is this whole class
39:23
of people that profit off constant
39:26
campaigning and it gets to the point
39:29
where it becomes less about effecting
39:31
change becomes less about issues and it
39:33
becomes more like becoming the personal
39:35
PR hit men for not so saintly people
39:38
right and you know art was like I’m not
39:42
gonna lie like some of art’s
39:44
characteristics and stuff like you know
39:47
every writer puts a logo themselves into
39:49
their main protagonist but art was
39:51
actually inspired by a lot of people I
39:53
know there are a lot of different people
39:54
I’ve encountered both good and bad who
39:57
have taken pieces of to put in art
39:59
because what I wanted people to
40:00
understand
40:01
that these people are probably the
40:03
closest thing to political sociopaths
40:05
out there they say one thing they do one
40:08
thing in public but what they actually
40:10
believe in what they do is quite
40:11
contradictory to that because at the end
40:14
of the day it’s that question that even
40:16
politicians have to and the thing that
40:17
our it really exemplifies throughout the
40:19
book is that you could have named it has
40:21
succeed in business in other forms of
40:23
devil-worship has succeeded and college
40:25
anything and it all comes down to what
40:27
is success because if your definition of
40:30
success is power money influence comfort
40:33
whatever you can get that but there’s a
40:36
cost with it and with art what you see
40:38
very early on is that he sacrificed his
40:42
uh his public image because yeah he
40:44
might go vote one way and he might still
40:46
do what he believes but at the end of
40:48
the day that’s not the person he wants
40:49
people to know him as and what he’s done
40:51
is he’s taken the judgment and opinion
40:54
of other people and he substituted that
40:56
with what he really does believe is
40:58
right yeah and I like I like how he he
41:02
makes a he made a comparison that I use
41:05
often when talking about the it for the
41:07
and I’m not sure if you know this I’m an
41:09
antique oh I guess canonical capitalist
41:11
whatever I’m an anarchist I I would
41:13
never thought an anarchist
41:20
who ever heard of a thing no and so I
41:24
you know I that try to use the electoral
41:28
process for liberty reasons god bless
41:30
you it’s a self-defensive use of proxy
41:33
violence I’m fine with that but but I
41:34
like the and I’m gonna butcher this
41:36
because I don’t remember exactly how it
41:38
was said but basically he said you know
41:39
that we’re in a war and that you have
41:41
people who without really knowing much
41:43
about what they’re doing are essentially
41:45
using their bullets their their votes as
41:48
bullets to put a gun to shoot at each
41:50
other I and again I know I put your that
41:52
but it was very much like it is people
41:55
are without really spending much time on
41:57
it which is also frightening how little
41:59
people think before they vote they are
42:01
really engaging in a sort of domestic
42:04
warfare against their otherwise friends
42:06
and neighbors who become their their you
42:08
know adversaries and enemies on that one
42:10
day every couple of years and it’s it it
42:12
was and so to become
42:15
person who engages in that as you’re a
42:18
career whether you’re a politician or
42:20
especially like you said you know
42:22
professional political you know hitman
42:24
operative operatives a good word because
42:28
it’s like you’re like a wartime you were
42:31
like some sort of uh like out like a
42:33
you’re actually engaging in warned and
42:35
in a form of almost violence so how
42:38
could you not lose yourself in that yeah
42:40
I don’t know if you’re much of a comic
42:42
book guy but one of my inspirations for
42:44
the book as I was writing both you know
42:46
crafting the character of art Brown but
42:48
really trying to analyze Wallace in the
42:50
way I could you know conceptualize it is
42:53
Alan Moore’s The Killing Joke it’s a
42:56
story that basically kind of tells that
42:58
the fact that origin of the Joker and
43:00
what you learn in that book is that you
43:02
know the Joker was a poor comedian who
43:04
had a pregnant wife and he was just
43:06
trying to make ends meet so one day he’s
43:09
told by a couple gangsters that if he
43:11
wears this mask and pretends to be a
43:13
villain they’ll go rob a place and get
43:15
out and then they’ll give him some money
43:17
and he’ll move on with his life
43:18
well that doesn’t the pathname because
43:20
Batman shows up
43:22
Joker’s wearing a funny red helmet and
43:24
he’s like listen Batman this is all
43:25
misunderstanding that Batman
43:27
accidentally kicks him to a vat of ass
43:29
and he becomes the Joker and the running
43:31
theme in that graphic novel is that the
43:33
difference between the Joker and anybody
43:35
is one bad day and to a certain degree
43:38
that’s kind of like what happened to
43:41
Wallace and that’s how I think a lot of
43:43
people tend to ignore a lot of things
43:46
what they need to understand is that
43:47
yeah I think you may command the itself
43:50
is depraved were sinful we make problems
43:52
I think we can all choose to be good or
43:54
bad for a lot of people I think the
43:56
difference between us and the villains
43:58
that we hate and fear is just one bad
44:00
day and I think Wallace really does
44:02
exemplify that tragedy to an extent art
44:05
and many of the other characters in the
44:07
book you see are much like that the
44:09
difference between them and one bad day
44:12
is whether or not they win or lose an
44:13
election whether or not they get that
44:16
donor or they have to go find money some
44:18
other way whether or not they’re going
44:19
to be unemployed or whether or not
44:21
they’re going to step up it’s very much
44:24
that situation and with George Wallace I
44:27
mean he’s he’s a victim of his own
44:29
bad luck but also a victim of his own
44:32
self-inflicted decisions bad luck and
44:36
being good at it I mean if he had sucked
44:39
at being a you know racist politician he
44:45
just would have sucked it you know he
44:46
would have lost and maybe a few people
44:48
would remember his name I’m sure there
44:49
are plenty of other segregationist
44:51
politicians that lost elections and
44:52
whatever so it’s it’s bad luck / being
44:55
good at being really a terrible person
44:59
and and not just terrible person like
45:01
the only way to be a terrible person is
45:03
to be racist or you know to be in favor
45:05
of say but just terrible person as in
45:06
you are doing things that you personally
45:09
believe to be horrible things that you
45:12
know will cause and inflict massive
45:14
amounts of pain so that I think yeah I
45:17
think I think anarcho-capitalists
45:20
understand this more so than other
45:22
people but you know I think there’s this
45:24
disconnect between actions and thoughts
45:26
and results and we tend to think that
45:30
the things we do in life are just
45:32
passive and they have no direct impact
45:33
but here’s the thing folks that
45:36
congressman you voted for who you
45:38
thought you were voting for a good
45:39
pro-life congressman ended up voting for
45:41
something which ends up getting a bunch
45:43
of kids killed yeah like a lot of people
45:45
are dead yeah yeah you can say well that
45:48
was him but in a way like we all have to
45:50
share responsibility what separates us
45:52
from understanding that though is that
45:54
we just don’t want to it’s it’s a
45:57
willful ignorance and and and it goes
45:59
deeper than that
45:59
at this point the many many many decades
46:03
of the u.s. murdering lots and lots and
46:07
lots of people both here and abroad and
46:09
put thing putting them at cages and
46:10
everything else you can at this point
46:12
say oh man I had no idea that voting for
46:14
a Republican or Democrat or whatever
46:16
would result in that I didn’t know that
46:19
this down the line Republican politician
46:21
who gave every indication that he would
46:23
vote for whatever war his party
46:25
supported as long as they were in power
46:26
I had no idea that would actually result
46:28
in a continuation of you know these
46:30
types of policies so you truly have to
46:32
if you if you and and I give this to
46:35
Democrats even more because they’ll be
46:37
the ones to say always you know Wars bad
46:40
and these children and we’re separate
46:43
reading families and it’s like ya know
46:45
all those terrible things are happening
46:47
every single one of those things that’s
46:49
happened with either the blessing of the
46:52
Democratic Party when they’re out of
46:53
power
46:53
despite their words or when they’re in
46:55
power doing the exact same thing but
46:57
talking about rainbows and unicorns
46:59
while they do it you know I said I mean
47:02
this is one thing I really want to
47:03
emphasize with art in the beginning of
47:05
the book it takes place on the day of
47:08
the 2016 election and the one thing art
47:11
brings up is that you know a lot of
47:12
people they just think that this is the
47:14
end of the world and that history
47:15
started at the beginning of the cycle
47:16
and as you go about the book and I I
47:19
mean you have some ways to go before you
47:21
really start to see how long Art’s been
47:23
involved but he’s at the point where
47:25
even come 2016 he doesn’t care
47:27
like he’s like I’ve seen this before
47:29
yeah I know history I’ve seen what
47:32
happens nothing’s going to change all I
47:34
can do is take care of myself
47:36
right so here’s an example of someone
47:38
who’s absolutely right about the
47:40
circumstance and the situation but he’s
47:43
absolutely wrong in the way he’s
47:46
handling it because he doesn’t think
47:48
that his actions have effect on anyone
47:51
anymore he’s just there to take care of
47:53
himself no exactly exactly and that’s
47:56
it’s weird cuz he’s engaging in like a
47:58
lot of self-care while also like
48:01
continuing to engage in the thing that’s
48:03
causing them all the all the agita in
48:07
the first place is very interesting and
48:08
and so I like I said I can’t wait to
48:12
finish reading this probably tonight or
48:14
tomorrow and guys you guys need to read
48:16
this as well now you actually have a
48:17
crowdfunding campaign we have that in
48:19
the show notes and I will will be
48:21
promoting that on the website and stuff
48:23
as well but um what is your what is your
48:27
goal with the crowdfunding to get it
48:28
published and so really what do you have
48:29
a timeline for how you want things to
48:31
proceed so everyone else can read this
48:32
yeah so the the really cool thing and
48:34
I’m happy to announce this on your show
48:36
is that originally before I started the
48:39
IndieGoGo campaign I was going to
48:41
completely finance the book myself it
48:43
was going to come out in March 2020
48:44
because that was when I would be able to
48:46
afford everything because
48:47
self-publishing books like this you know
48:50
traditional publishers aren’t going to
48:51
do it’s not that you know I didn’t want
48:54
to go through the process I probably
48:55
could have gotten a publisher for
48:57
Warp I do know that the final product
48:58
would not have been what I wanted and if
49:00
I go ahead and write something I want to
49:01
do that so I started the crowdfunding
49:03
campaign I realized I need a thousand
49:05
dollars to really put the work in to
49:07
make this professionally well produced
49:09
the first book I did a completely out
49:11
pocket but was my first self-published
49:13
book there’s some things I liked and
49:14
didn’t like so I want to make sure that
49:16
for this one is perfect as possible so
49:18
within 10 days
49:20
I have exceeded the amount of money that
49:22
I initially needed why the great thing
49:26
for you and everyone listening is that
49:29
the IndieGoGo campaign is still open for
49:32
49 days so what this basically does is
49:35
this allows you to not only get a whole
49:38
bunch of exclusive limited stuff like
49:40
signed posters or credit in the book
49:41
signed copy of my first book but your
49:44
everything is massively discounted so in
49:47
a way the goals been met I’m gonna make
49:50
this the best product ever I possibly
49:52
could but you can get this a signed copy
49:57
of the book extremely cheap by helping
50:00
basically give me the capital to do it
50:02
so at this point you can get everything
50:04
from a sign first copy of my first book
50:07
a signed copy of this book a signs
50:09
limited edition poster that’s I mean
50:11
it’s it’s gonna be fun and you can earn
50:13
a credit in the book where I’ll thank
50:14
you and the acknowledgments for helping
50:16
basically take the power from the big
50:18
publishers and democratize it in a way
50:20
so that way stories like art Browns and
50:23
you know the and more of a more
50:25
objective view of George Wallace can be
50:27
told and the really cool thing is that
50:30
originally like I said we were gone do
50:32
you March 2020 now I’m happy to say that
50:35
because of everyone’s support it’ll be
50:39
out in prints and Kindle on August 30th
50:42
oh wow oh wow so it’ll be ready this
50:45
summer that’s awesome so guys be sure to
50:47
get your you know this books coming out
50:49
regardless go ahead and get it for a lot
50:51
cheaper and also get maybe pick up some
50:53
How to Succeed in politics swag and a
50:55
copy of stay away from the libertarians
50:58
as well I haven’t read that but just the
50:59
cover alone makes me want to read that
51:01
so be sure to check that out now matt
51:04
has a question for you what was it like
51:07
being The Crying migrant baby on the
51:09
cover of Time
51:10
magazine that was me that was my cousin
51:14
Julio I was left behind because I didn’t
51:17
want to wake up early so the Coyotes
51:19
left me in the train and I woke up in
51:21
Los Angeles so I actually got the the
51:24
better end of the deal because of
51:25
negligence right so that was actually a
51:28
turn
51:28
that was that was fortune smiling on you
51:30
is that you just got on the train that’s
51:32
yeah well like Alejandro you know I
51:35
don’t know where he is god bless him but
51:37
you know it you gotta take care of
51:39
number one or else I mean what else are
51:41
you doing there ended up on the cover of
51:43
Time magazine look at the Mexican child
51:47
that’s like no one cares about you he’s
51:49
there crying they’re there crying and
51:52
then Donald Trump’s looking down at her
51:53
like yeah well I don’t care about Julio
51:55
um so here’s another thing and this is
51:58
Matt who I guess this is the thing I
52:01
hate the most about him is that he drops
52:03
things on me at the last second he said
52:05
oh you’re gonna talk about you bi with
52:07
Bream so right and I’m like why and he
52:10
said cuz he’s a supporter of you bi and
52:12
I went yeah we’re definitely gonna talk
52:14
about that so I just what so I’m
52:17
interested to hear the libertarian case
52:20
for you bi because I’m not I’m not
52:23
seeing it but I’m more than willing to
52:25
listen to anyone about anything I
52:28
wouldn’t I wouldn’t even call myself a
52:31
supporter of you bi but the really funny
52:33
thing is that you know originally I came
52:36
for more of a public policy economics
52:38
background right Washington like you
52:41
know in in Washington here’s the truth
52:44
about economists so maybe I’ll write a
52:45
book about how succeed in economics and
52:47
other forms of screwing over economies
52:49
but your job in politics isn’t
52:52
necessarily to make people’s lives
52:53
better it’s just to make them less worse
52:56
okay when it comes to things like you bi
52:59
you you have certain people that you
53:03
know it’s basically a policy without a
53:05
part without party it’s a solution
53:08
without a home and because of that many
53:10
people have many different arguments for
53:12
it I understand what the Marxist the
53:13
socialist and the conservative and the
53:16
Austrian view for well actually I
53:18
wouldn’t say Austria the Chicago School
53:19
to you yes again I freed man as Austrian
53:23
Austria
53:23
doesn’t allow that at all but you know
53:26
basically the back in the 80s they were
53:29
these professors Cloward and Piven and
53:31
what they basically thought of was they
53:33
were they were like Marxist anarchists
53:35
anarcho-syndicalist I thought the goal
53:37
in order to bring about a worker run
53:39
stateless society was to basically blow
53:42
up the welfare state to the point where
53:44
the nation collapsed and you have a lot
53:47
of people that think that ubi is a form
53:51
of that my thing is this if you actually
53:54
take ubi the way that people like Milton
53:56
Friedman Thomas Paine and others such as
53:59
from the some folks from the Institute
54:00
for Humane studies but it was it
54:03
basically allows everybody to win for
54:06
libertarians it allows an elimination of
54:09
99% of the welfare state
54:10
you know ubi is blanket it’s impersonal
54:14
it offers no excuses so that’s why some
54:16
libertarians like it conserve their
54:18
stuff conservatives like it because what
54:20
it does is it keeps people out of direct
54:23
pop situations that lead to poverty
54:26
they’re therefore they won’t need other
54:29
programs and you limit the size of
54:30
government and then progressives like it
54:32
because it covers things like income
54:34
inequality and it also brings down other
54:37
factors that you know keep people in
54:40
welfare and you know that’s that so my
54:44
my my support for ubi comes down to this
54:49
it’s the worst best best worst plan
54:53
there is my problem with it however is
54:56
it’s a utopian plan and it’s implemented
54:59
it you know you’d have to raise the
55:01
amount per month per year that you’d be
55:03
getting in terms of a you know keeping
55:05
up with inflation in by the same time
55:07
you you know when is enough enough you
55:10
know Andrew yang he was gonna be
55:11
debating tomorrow night is saying twelve
55:13
twelve thousand dollars a year like what
55:16
the hell what if I want $30,000 here
55:18
what if I want a hundred thousand
55:19
dollars a year all you have to do is
55:20
vote and that’s a dangerous thing you’re
55:23
going to be sabotaging yourself in the
55:24
process so I think ubi is the best worst
55:28
plan for more perfect people or not
55:31
those people and it’s still a terrible
55:32
plan but if let’s say we were to start
55:35
it like in my home state Virginia for
55:36
example
55:37
if a politician in Virginia said we’re
55:39
going to go ahead and eliminate all
55:40
state-level welfare programs and set
55:43
implement ubi I’d probably vote for that
55:46
so there you get a little bit tricky
55:48
about how you get to the situations so
55:51
that’s that’s that’s my gimmick about it
55:53
yeah I yeah there’s definitely an
55:55
argument to be made that it would be
55:57
better than welfare I mean it not is
56:00
better than chlamydia right that yeah
56:03
well I think the clap is coming up
56:05
anyway we’re no claps gonorrhea anyway
56:08
whatever yeah well it’s better than AIDS
56:10
yeah no I get it
56:12
oh and I know I know Friedman made his
56:15
case with the the negative income tax
56:17
and things like that so I I get it I
56:20
think that I mean obviously when you’re
56:21
an anarchist you don’t want universal
56:23
basic income but III get the kid the
56:26
case that it’s better than the current
56:29
thing one of the funny one of the most
56:31
scathing indictments of ubi that I ever
56:34
listened to was on YouTube and it was
56:35
from a communist who was saying if the
56:38
matter yeah he said if you implement ubi
56:41
you are entrenching capitalism really
56:47
corporatism but you’re you are
56:48
entrenching the wealthy being here and
56:51
saying we own this here’s money so you
56:54
can live but we definitely own this and
56:57
it eliminates the ability of the it
56:58
eliminates the what’s the word they like
57:02
to use the Solidarity of the working
57:04
class it guarantees there’s not gonna be
57:07
any public ownership of a damn thing and
57:08
it in in their mind it’s it’s the the
57:12
perfect ending of the what they call the
57:15
capitalist welfare state and I thought
57:16
okay well that’s a leftist argument
57:18
against it my argument against it is um
57:21
you were putting government in charge of
57:23
deciding how much money everyone needs
57:24
every year and that’s the market isn’t
57:28
going to simply shrug that off like the
57:30
costs are going to be born into the rest
57:33
of the market and there’s gonna be this
57:35
quickly exponentially escalating battle
57:40
between the price ceiling plight price
57:42
floor of just living and how much money
57:45
you can get from the state coupled with
57:47
the ever growing burdensome debt that
57:50
comes with that
57:51
so I think it’s like you said for a for
57:53
a for a better people than us could you
57:57
make that work yeah but you could make a
57:58
communism work or you could make you
58:00
know well come communism couldn’t work
58:02
because communism is involuntary I mean
58:06
that’s the biggest thing with you bi to
58:09
to a certain degree you can kind of opt
58:10
in opt out because you know the the the
58:12
best plan I’ve seen for you bi is you
58:15
eliminate the income tax which basically
58:18
disincentivizes people to work and you
58:20
put a value-added tax so you feel it’s
58:22
based off consumable goods we call it
58:24
the Fair Tax right in the you know in in
58:27
Europe and North America and you know
58:30
with people like yang I’m not refer to
58:32
gang because he’s really the one kind
58:33
driving the ubi conversation right now
58:36
he definitely is yeah yeah so like right
58:38
now like he basically said if you could
58:40
opt in for ubi and what that does that
58:43
prevents you from accessing any form of
58:46
entitlement out there all of them so
58:49
once you’re in you’re in or you could
58:51
get your housing and your WIC and your
58:53
food stamps in your unemployment or you
58:55
could get this so he makes it you know
58:57
it’s it’s a bit unfair to a certain
58:59
agree it’s an all-or-nothing type of
59:01
deal and you know you know the one thing
59:04
it is however like in economy society
59:06
you’re gonna have to you know call
59:08
communism relies on violence you’re
59:09
gonna have to you know join the
59:11
proletariat worker class by any means
59:14
necessary or die whereas with ubi you’ve
59:17
got some more room to move around so oh
59:20
yeah it’s definitely a it’s it’s so like
59:23
you could be a communist in this Simpson
59:25
in that system and not like it or like
59:27
it but the thing is like I think the
59:29
biggest problem with economics I think
59:30
this is my one criticism of the Austrian
59:32
school is that we assume that everyone
59:35
everywhere is already aware of this and
59:38
they understand it and even if they did
59:39
understand it they would like it the
59:42
problem that is the truth is that if
59:44
let’s say I could snap my fingers like
59:46
fan o’s and create a libertarian society
59:48
overnight tomorrow there would be people
59:50
that crave for government and within two
59:52
days there would be a collective of
59:54
people taxing each other oh yeah yeah
59:56
yeah no in that right now is we have a
59:58
massive amount of people in working
60:00
communities throughout the country who
60:02
are one bad day away
60:04
from not paying their bills because
60:06
robots with their job and what’s gonna
60:08
happen they’re gonna push for even worse
60:12
stuff and that and that’s the thing so
60:13
and and and I tell people that when
60:15
they’re like yeah well you want anarchy
60:17
how realistic is that and I’m like right
60:19
now not at all
60:21
I might you know if and I used the snap
60:25
my finger if I could snap my finger and
60:26
government goes away everyone is
60:28
immediately gonna try to work to make a
60:30
new government a bit more than likely
60:31
historically that will be an even worse
60:33
government than what I got rid of by
60:35
snapping my finger so you know my thing
60:37
isn’t even like let’s try to make
60:39
anarchy today my thing is more of a I
60:41
cannot morally accept the idea that the
60:46
state is a justifiable thing that I can
60:48
justify and so I’m gonna try to talk
60:50
with people about why I think that is
60:52
and how we can try to work to create
60:54
something that looks more like a
60:56
voluntary society but the idea that like
60:58
anarchy is gonna happen you know in
61:00
Turkey will win that historically is not
61:03
true like in Turkey winning is not
61:05
usually what happened so so that that’s
61:07
my thing on that but um I I want to ask
61:10
you now you’re you’re gonna you’re did
61:13
you vote for Donald Trump in 2016
61:16
yeah no are you but you’re going to vote
61:20
for him you you’re planning on voting
61:22
for Trump yeah okay okay so I’m gonna
61:29
give you exactly I like him rough in the
61:33
Libertarian Party aisle
61:34
I usually don’t vote so you know it’s
61:37
funny the last two elections were south
61:39
Congo vote in the general I was like
61:41
really come home like I’m gonna go there
61:43
I’m gonna do it then I pull up in my car
61:45
I look at like you know the little
61:47
league of women’s voters people and then
61:50
I’m like I’m gonna go back to sleep now
61:53
and I just got home so you’re it so this
61:56
could go one of many ways you could vote
61:58
for Trump you could vote for the rough
62:00
Phillips ticket or you could just like
62:02
sleep in that day yeah all right well
62:06
we’re gonna pretend you’re a trump
62:07
supporter I’m gonna give you 30 seconds
62:09
to sell this libertarian audience on the
62:12
libertarian case on voting for Trump
62:14
good luck
62:16
well we’ve done is what we what Trump is
62:19
done is he’s exposed the deep state the
62:21
bureaucratic state and essentially what
62:23
now is happening is people are
62:24
questioning all major institutions this
62:26
is no fan idol for the importance of a
62:27
massive democracy especially when you
62:29
look some things such as the United
62:30
States and what we’ve done is we’ve kind
62:31
and evaluate the war State the
62:33
bureaucratic way to criminal justice
62:34
debate and what this is doing is
62:37
bringing enough power to the regular
62:38
voting class with the left or right and
62:40
forcing them back to look at local as’
62:41
solutions which to do go ahead and they
62:44
enforce Jeffersonian democracy or a
62:46
girl’s principles so essentially what
62:47
Trump is done buzzer buzzer buzzes
62:50
buzzer is down buzzers down the judges
62:55
the judges were looking for he’s going
62:58
this is the same post-it note he’s going
63:00
to trigger a revolt that will end up
63:02
tearing down the government leading to
63:05
an eventual virtual anarchists utopia
63:10
eventual anarchists utopia we were
63:12
looking for the answer we were looking
63:14
for yours was close maybe maybe it’ll
63:23
take me seriously I’m not gonna lie that
63:25
was pretty close to two well this just
63:28
says you’re a Mexican but this is pretty
63:31
that was pretty close to your I’m gonna
63:33
get more posted notes I think that went
63:34
well um I was okay with that answer I’m
63:39
still not voting for him but I was I
63:40
think we came close to what the judges
63:43
wanted and I there’s no money here but
63:47
if there was I’d give it to you
63:48
now you wouldn’t you know I would
63:51
definitely not but I what here’s what I
63:53
will do is I will continue to promote
63:55
your book I will definitely finish
63:57
reading it REMS oh I had a I’m you’re
64:00
definitely coming back on and we’re
64:02
probably just gonna have an episode
64:03
where we just like bash Matt and so I’ll
64:06
have like a picture I like you so much
64:09
more than I like him like we’re gonna
64:11
have a picture of Matt and it’ll just be
64:14
like oh and then he’s like the children
64:18
think of the children
64:19
well that’s why I would do it I mean
64:21
that’s really the only reason I even do
64:23
this show is the children mmm I mean
64:26
honestly who’s messaging it’s probably
64:27
Matt Matt
64:29
what a little bitch it was not but um
64:33
brems up before I let you go I just want
64:36
to give you a chance to give any final
64:37
thoughts anything that you anything that
64:40
you you want to say about anything
64:44
anything you want to plug anything up
64:45
come in that you got going on tell us
64:47
about your pocket whatever you want to
64:48
say you have as much time as you want if
64:51
it goes on too long I may just go to the
64:53
bathroom and come back but REMSA
64:55
Martinez the floor is yours yeah so
64:59
folks this this book has succeed in
65:01
politics know that forms of
65:02
devil-worship it’s a dark comedy that
65:04
blends both a fictional narrative of the
65:07
problems were facing today and a
65:09
nonfiction narrative of what was going
65:11
on during one of the most tumultuous
65:12
years in American history and if you
65:14
learn nothing more than just a few
65:16
interesting facts about how the
65:18
political class works in this new
65:20
cottage industry of professional
65:21
political consultants and the
65:23
politicians they breathe it’s that we
65:25
need to treat each other better and that
65:26
we ultimately need to ask ourselves this
65:28
question what is the cost of success of
65:30
our humanity is the price in the process
65:33
it’s available in Kindle and print
65:35
August 30th on Amazon Barnes & Noble
65:37
online we have Johnny Adams from
65:39
blast-off Johnny rocket from launch pad
65:41
media and narrating the audio book which
65:44
should be out in October just so cool I
65:49
love it I had no idea that’s so cool
65:53
yeah John Johnny’s been a friend of mine
65:56
for years he taught me how to podcast
65:57
and I was back in college and when I
65:59
think of like the perfect voice to carry
66:01
through this book yeah one who both
66:04
self-loathing but also hilarious as hell
66:06
dark and serious but incredibly
66:09
ridiculous and funny but just keep a
66:11
captive reader engaged I couldn’t have
66:14
thought of anyone better than it so cool
66:17
that is awesome that is awesome well
66:20
thank you again we have a final comment
66:22
here Jacob LaBelle says this guy would
66:27
make a great cell phone cell phone
66:29
salesman you know what’s funny I
66:31
actually used to sell bags of
66:33
chinese-made makeup business to business
66:35
I mean that’s essentially the same thing
66:40
it was so much better than politics
66:42
because at least that
66:43
an honest job cuz if you want it you can
66:46
buy it and if not no one’s gonna force
66:48
you to buy the Chinese man yeah like
66:49
you’re getting something out of it I
66:52
can’t say if it was good or not but at
66:53
least you’re getting something out of it
66:54
it’s mostly ash mostly ash but it’s it’s
66:57
Chinese ash so that’s good Chris
66:59
Reynolds just chimed in asking what’s
67:02
the book we’ll have that in the show
67:03
notes but it’s called how to succeed in
67:07
politics and other forms of
67:08
devil-worship and then you can obviously
67:11
watch this show again REM so you are an
67:14
angel of a man and I hope no one else
67:16
has called you that before I want this
67:18
to be the first time you’ve heard that I
67:19
care my one and only and I appreciate
67:21
you yeah you are definitely this is sort
67:24
of like an open relationship and I’m
67:25
really happy about it
67:26
I got an exclusive yeah I know why I’m
67:29
married so I mean it’s gonna be
67:31
complicated I’m not gonna look like that
67:33
yeah
67:34
well this is I am in Canada right now
67:35
that’s why when you were saying before
67:37
like the woman that got in trouble in
67:38
Canada I’m like okay I’m just summering
67:45
here guys like Idaho MIFF there’s a
67:48
problem um anyway so thank you guys for
67:50
coming in stick around I’m going to talk
67:52
with you during the intro or during the
67:53
outro for the intro um guys thank you
67:56
again for tuning in to my fellow
67:57
Americans I love each and every one of
67:59
you individually be sure to tune in
68:01
tomorrow where we’re having a special
68:03
Thursday night episode of I think we’re
68:06
calling it the muddied waters of freedom
68:08
but maybe it’s the writer’s block
68:09
my fellow writer’s block of Americans
68:12
died I’m not sure what we’re calling it
68:14
but basically Matt and I are going to be
68:15
live-streaming
68:16
the democratic debate and laughing at
68:20
everyone so be sure to tune into that
68:22
Thursday at I think eight whenever the
68:23
debate starts we’ll be doing that right
68:25
here on muddy waters media be sure to
68:28
tune in Friday night for shabbat shalom
68:30
it’s Jason Lyon with mr. America the
68:35
bearded truth he’s not Jewish
68:36
but it is about so just watch it anyway
68:39
and then have a great weekend and then
68:42
next week is the one-year anniversary of
68:45
my fellow Americans and I don’t know who
68:48
I have on as a guest it might just be me
68:50
because that’s really it’s really about
68:52
me but we’ll find out together but be
68:54
sure to tune in Monday for mr. America
68:57
the bearded truth
68:57
nonchalant episode tune in Tuesday night
69:00
for the muddy waters of freedom with me
69:03
and Matt Rogers we parse through the
69:04
week’s news and then join us right here
69:06
next week Wednesday night probably still
69:11
in Canada for my fellow Americans I
69:14
didn’t no idea what I’m gonna do but
69:15
it’s gonna be great thank you again for
69:16
tuning in I love you so much
69:18
God bless you
70:09
[Music]


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Spike Cohen
Spike Cohen
Local Jew. Contrarian stoic sentimentalist. Antidisestablishmentarianism. Will pet your dog.