(((My Fellow Americans))) #118: Carol Roth

(((My Fellow Americans)))

About This Episode

Government has been waging a war against small businesses in this country for decades, and it has hit a breaking point in the past two years, starting with the lockdowns and continuing with the “stimulus” and “infrastructure” bills.

My guest tonight is Carol Roth, the author of The War On Small Business, and we’re going to talk about why they’re doing this, and how we can stop it.

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Episode Transcript

This episode transcript is auto-generated and a provided as a service to the hearing impaired. We apologize for any errors or inaccuracies.

that is
we have solely changed
that is
but it seems like since
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south carolina you’re watching my fellow
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welcome to my fellow americans i am
literally spike cohen thank you for
joining us tonight wednesday october the
was it the 13th already
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turks’s mom and um as always folks my
guest tonight is a recovering investment
banker and i can’t wait to find out what
that actually means uh she’s a
recovering investment banker and a small
business expert she has been named a top
100 small business influencer
for 2011 to 2015 by the small biz trends
she is a frequent panelist on networks
like fox business cnbc msnbc and cnn her
first book the entrepreneur equation uh
is a new york times best seller and her
new book which i am looking for here
because i put it in the i put it on the
net i’ll have to show you a picture of
the book because i put it in the wrong
frame but uh her new her new book the
war on small business was just released
uh and is available at all major
booksellers ladies and gentlemen my
fellow americans please welcome to the
show ms carol roth there it is
there you go carol thank you so much for
coming on stacks of cash for my ears
which i actually should since i’m i’m
pretty good at making people a lot of
money uh as well as your as uh one of
your advertisers but i figured i would
just add that in for a little visual
hi spike
hi how are you doing no it’s perfect and
now i have this book thing which is less
powerful now that i’m not you know
referencing it in an intro but there it
is uh and yeah we can get so like moving
forward you want to get and the thing is
if you do it like from the side they can
be one dollar bills you don’t have to
show them maybe have like a hundred
where they can see it on the front
i’m not an amateur i’m gonna go i’m
gonna go full out if i’m gonna bother
doing it all hundreds all hundreds yeah
all hundreds all the time real you know
not like sometimes they use the fake
money but i’m really glad we could do
this because you and i have been like
trying to do this for almost 24 hours so
i’m glad that we were yes
it has been so hard to to nail you down
for minutes entire minutes it has i have
i have spent just pining to be able to
get you on the show no this has been so
i you are actually on a list and i can
promise you i mean i can pull up the
list you have been on a list of people
for me to contact as a fellow jew i’m
not super comfortable being on list just
putting it out there
wow okay so you’re gonna be worse than
me on this show
oh nobody nobody filled you in on that
okay no no one told me that you would be
worse than me no this is good this is
good because then people will say i look
i look forward to watching spike because
he’s just a breath of fresh air being so
sober and serious all the time so now
that’ll be perfect you can be the
gilbert godfreed of this episode um so
that’ll be great
on a list as you click
you were it was a good list it was a
good list it was not the list it was a
list uh it was it was it was not
schindler’s list it was a it was a bit
actually schindler’s list was a good
list it was it was it was like it was a
schindler’s list of who i’m gonna invite
to my show um and so then when i saw
that i was being tagged in uh in someone
saying you should come on money waters
i’m like perfect and so now here you are
this is great we’re gonna have a
fantastic time uh you are i i have to
start with this
recovering investment banker what is
i have to know what that means
so recovering investment banker it’s
basically a 12-step process and i never
really get out of step 11 because once
you have done lots and lots of deals and
transactions there’s always someone
who’s like oh can you help me take a
look at this or can i get your advice on
this thing or right you know this said
the other thing and i happen to sit on
some boards that are always looking at
deals so i’ve never
quite extracted myself fully from
investment banking and deal making um
although you know it is not what i
consider my profession
okay okay so it’s it’s similar so
there’s not like a place you go
is there a place where you get up and go
my name is carol i am an investment
banker and i was like hello carol and
that is that like so you’re not there
everyone’s wearing fleece patagonia
vests and yeah that’s sort of how it
yeah balenciaga slippers and stuff and
they’re like hello hello carol thank you
so much okay all right good so you
actually so you uh
early career in investment banking
actually became an officer at the at the
bank at the age of 25 what i have to add
so what got you into investment banking
because i mean with a name like roth
you’re obviously an episcopalian so what
what got you into into an investment
bank all right so first since you
mentioned the raw thing i’m just gonna
say that wasn’t my maiden name but i did
manifest it because my maiden name was
schneiderman which is 12 letters and i
told all of my friends in high school
that i was going to marry someone with a
four-letter last name and you know there
were leaves there were golds there were
lots of choices you had options
yeah but at any rate um so i actually uh
came from a family where neither of my
parents graduated from college my dad
was an electrician probably the only
jewish electrician that anybody’s ever
heard of so you can tell
come from a long line of sort of
exceptions to the rule
and i was able to get myself into
wharton undergrad which is you know sort
of the best undergraduate business
program in the country and my dad was
like that’s nice who is paying for that
and my dad was very financially savvy
even though he wasn’t um sort of
formally you know educated in that realm
he had a lot of common sense and a lot
of sort of financial knowledge and so we
ran an roi calculation and said you know
if you go to the school there are these
these you know kinds of jobs that you
can get coming out you’re making a lot
of money and that was the deal it’s like
okay you can go but you’re going to have
to pay for most of it and you’re going
to have to pay it off as fast as you can
because in my family debt was you know
unless you were using it for an
investment that just for debt’s sake is
not a good thing
so when i got to wharton and this is you
know back in the early 90s um you know i
wrapped up you even though i had some
scholarships and i worked through school
and i did all the stuff you know i came
out with 40 000 of college debt by 95
and so i knew listening to my dad that i
had to pay it off as quickly as possible
so there’s sort of two paths to do that
and learn a ton if for people who really
like to deep dive into something they go
into management consulting and people
who have add and want to do like a
million things at once go into
investment banking so clearly i was
going to go into investment banking and
if you know i it really was to get
you unparalleled experience at a young
age and to just create the financial
flexibility but i never went in because
oh i wanted to be the world’s best
investment banker in fact i’d never even
heard of it until i got to college and
so it was clear that that wasn’t
necessarily going to be where i ended up
you know for my life
a rare person who gets into investment
banking for the money
i know
it’s an uh it’s an outlier but to be
this is a story that not a lot of people
the reason i ended up working at the
investment bank that i did
um was because i wanted a free trip to
san francisco where the bank was located
i had never been i knew i wasn’t going
to be able to sort of afford it myself
in an investment banking if you get past
a certain round of interviews they fly
you out
and i actually was competing in a beauty
pageant the day of my interview
and couldn’t make it and had to call up
the recruiter and say i’m sorry i can’t
make the investment banking interview
i’m going to be in a beauty pageant but
is there something else that we can
possibly do and he’s like you can’t
possibly be serious i’m like oh no i’m
serious and i wanted that free trip so
badly i kept calling him back and
calling him back and i’m like the 17th
call he’s like you are the most
persistent mf
that like i’ve ever met in my entire
life fine you can have the interview and
then i went to the process and you know
i worked my way out to san francisco and
i’m like oh i actually really like this
working for them but really had no
intention going in so it’s always good
to be open to possibilities but the
reason i mention that is that even
though i went into investment begging
for the money the unusual part is
obviously that i missed my first
interview because i was a beauty pageant
i couldn’t make it
no that’s beautiful and this explains
incidentally before we get too far you
also is that i see do i see a action
figure behind you that looks
suspiciously like recovering investment
banker carol roth
you know funny that you mentioned that
yet i do have my own action figure made
in my likeness that is made to look like
the book cover of the entrepreneur
and um this is one of those things that
tends to make people very jealous and uh
yeah that’s me
okay that’s good so that was for your
first book the entrepreneur equation yes
the first book okay the war on small
business they could have made one where
you’re like
not happy with what’s with the state of
was all messed up so they couldn’t make
ah see well okay let’s don’t don’t don’t
don’t get ahead in the notes we so we
we’re no we’re going to talk about that
but okay so your father he says listen
schneiderman electric will help you a
little bit but you got to pay for most
of it yourself you got your debt you got
your free job
or free trip free trip went and helped
pay off your debt then you got into so
what happened you get out of investment
banking and then is that when you
started getting into small business
because i mean obviously your career is
focusing heavily on small business
what got you into that was that seamless
coming out of investment banking into
small business
not really actually the what
kind of tied me into the plight of the
small business owner so to speak um yeah
i’m sort of an entrepreneurial person at
heart you know i was the kid who was
always selling anything i i ran a
football uh pool in college to help pay
for college you know anyway to sort of
hustle so i always had sort of an
affinity towards the small business
owner but when i was in investment
banking i would field calls like all day
long from small business owners who are
getting really bad advice
and wanting to hire me or the investment
bank to help them and obviously like
they couldn’t afford the retainer fee
let alone the overall fee and i always
felt really badly that i couldn’t help
them and the people who were willing to
help them probably weren’t giving them
the best advice
so when i started transitioning away
from investment banking
ultimately um you know i said you know
is there a way to kind of use and
leverage a media platform you know like
others have done in personal finance and
and whatnot to be able to provide better
advice to small business owners and to
help small business owners in a way
where it wasn’t you know depending on
sort of that one-to-one payments and so
it really strangely enough was from the
investment banking experience that you
brought me into the the plight of the
small business owner and then as i dug
more into it and really you know tied
that into how important they were um for
the economy and economic freedom it was
just always been an important part of
you know who i am and what i do
very good so obviously
the importance of small business to that
business owner or entrepreneur or the
people working for them is obvious i
mean that that it is uh it is how they
provide for their families it is how
they build a financial legacy it’s how
they find a a need that isn’t being met
by the market or isn’t being met as well
as they could provide it by the to the
market and to provide it but
what is the importance to our overall
economy to have a an environment that
has successful small businesses an
ecosystem that encourages or at least
allows success of small businesses
yeah well i think that you know the
things that you were describing the the
economic freedom the opportunity to be
able to pursue
your own path economically is actually
really important and it’s why we attract
people from all over the world um to
america to be able to pursue that for
all the reasons that you said or for a
passion or for whatnot and so that that
in and of itself is important um but you
know if you sort of aggregate it all
together uh before covid’s small
business was about half the gdp and
about half the jobs in this country
so a very big contributor but in a very
decentralized fashion so even though
it’s 99.9 percent of all the small
business entities um you know it spread
over 31.7
million different entities most of those
are individual businesses um
about six million of those you know had
the employees and and
uh you know we’re the job creators so
you know obviously from an
overall standpoint it’s huge but then
for the ones that have employees or who
have contractors or vendors you every
time that you do an economic transaction
with one of those whether you’re paying
them to work for you or you’re buying
from them or whatnot obviously that
helps them keep their employees in line
and are on board and gives them money to
go out and spend in the local economy
and so it helps to grow the economy and
um additionally obviously innovations
and things that help up make our lives
better and and more comfortable and
obviously every big business that’s out
there has in some way unless it was a
spin-off uh been a small business at one
point in their lives
yeah every business started usually
every business started as a small
business at some point so in your book
and this is why i put it here i just
forgot to put it on there
uh in the war on small business how
government used the pandemic to crush
the backbone of america uh when i said
that you were my guest tonight one of
the first comments uh was uh a from
someone named desiree one of my
followers who uh or fans who uh her
story uh i think is going to talk a lot
about what what is going to be a brief
rundown of what’s in your book uh i was
trying she said i was trying to open a
small boutique bakery a few months ago
government required that i install a 1
000 gallon grease trap in the ground
outside or i couldn’t move forward this
was a one-person bakery with no fryers
not even a stove just an oven it would
have cost me about 11 000 plus the cost
to have it professionally professionally
cleaned on a schedule government is not
your friend uh in your book
i assume that this is a very common
tell me about what the i guess let’s
start with what was it that inspired you
to to to write the book to write this
so i was approached by harper collins
very early during the pandemic to do an
economic redux of what was sure to be a
very historic moment economically
and i really didn’t know what the thesis
of the book was going to be i didn’t
know fully what the outcome was going to
be i had some ideas but i was actually
following real time and i sort of wrote
like three and a half different books
during the pandemic all with slightly
different titles that are all somewhat
relevant to the to the final output um
but from the very beginning because of
my background
and knowledge of small business you know
as soon as they started shutting down
small businesses first and looking at
the you know quote-unquote um you know
packages of aid that they were going to
offer up it was very clear that that was
going to be a key component of the story
it wasn’t until i really dug in that i
saw it was you know a big part of the
story and so you know as i sorted
through all of this information
real time it was very clear that the
government was picking winners and
losers they were going to decide who was
going to thrive and who was going to
fight to survive and they did this not
based on data or science but based on
political clout and connections and
guess who doesn’t have political clout
and connections small business
and then you know that sort of begot
incredibly epic historic transfer of
wealth from main street to wall street
you know something that you’ve just
never seen before and obviously um the
small businesses of main street as well
as individuals really got the bad end of
that trade and so as i you know kind of
went through this this thesis
that was the story it’s still probably
the most important story that’s out
there and strangely it’s not one that
big media has really covered
yeah we’re and that’s uh that’s a
curious indeed uh i will say that you
know common sense should tell us
that if the purpose of these lockdowns
is to keep
too many people from being around each
other then telling a small bakery or a
small uh you know tanning salon or a
small furniture store or a small
whatever uh that you know a small
business that might have anywhere from
four to maybe 10 people in there at the
same time that will have to shut down
because it would be way too unsafe to
have all these people here
but costco and walmart and target and
best buy and all these big box stores
that have sometimes hundreds of people
in them especially at a time when there
are now curfews introduced so the store
can’t remain open past this time and and
has to be open you know it has to open
later and close earlier which means
people are packed together even more at
times it felt like they were recreating
the conditions for cold and flu season
that you had to just stay in your poorly
ventilated home all day long venturing
outside only to go and do the basic
necessities at the exact same place that
everyone else is doing it during the
exact same time that everyone else is
doing it this like you said this wasn’t
driven by data or science or even common
sense was this purely just a a
was this just a blatant power grab and
money grab for the rich
i mean it certainly was a blatant power
money grab you know in terms of the
intentions i’ve left the book as a
choose your own adventure
you could decide that it was sort of
incompetence driven you could decide
that you know it was these small
businesses were just too small to matter
and so that the governor government
needed to appear as if they were doing
something and so small business just
becomes like the cannon fodder
or it could be that small businesses are
too hard to control politically they’re
not expedient so why not just you know
whatever happens if they die
don’t really care it doesn’t matter
there’s not helping us in any way and so
you know i leave that up to the reader i
lay out the data and facts um the entire
book is sourced with hundreds and
hundreds of sources many of them from
media outlets um that are considered you
know left leaning or mainstream or
corporate press or whatnot and you can
just make that determination but here’s
the thing is it really doesn’t matter
what the intentions are people often get
very hung up on intentions the outcomes
are always what matters and regardless
of which path you choose the outcome is
the same and the consolidation of power
this these central planners and the
consolidation between big government big
business and big special interests never
works out well
for the little guy whether that be you
know the average individual or a small
business or whatnot so you know i kind
of don’t even care what the intention is
i just care about the outcomes yeah i’m
reminded whenever we talk about you know
debate or or discuss whether it’s a case
anything is a case of government being
inept or evil or some combination
between them i’m reminded of the the uh
the scene from casino where uh um uh in
fact uh his name was roth i think uh
where he the uh the casino owner
hyman roth yes
old uncle jaime uh goes to uh goes to
the casino and he’s hired one of the
corrupt government officials uh stepson
or something like that and our
son-in-law and the guy is an idiot and
uh he’s sitting there and watching one
jackpot after the next on the slots and
they’re losing a fortune and he fires
him on the spot and uh the you know his
assistant says well you know he said
that it was a mistake you know how do
you know that he was in on it he said i
don’t care if he’s dead on it if either
he’s in on it or he’s an idiot either
way he’s gone and it’s the same thing
here government’s either it’s probably
some combination of ineptitude and evil
but it really doesn’t it doesn’t matter
i i will say i think that the the
motivation largely has to do with the
coincidental fact that they get you know
hundreds of millions of dollars to their
campaign coffers from the people that
were allowed to stay open and they don’t
get that from the people who were shut
down um now so
your latest book you highlight you say
that then you say the number one risk
for starting or running a small business
in america day is the government at all
levels um
what do you mean so when you say do you
say the number one there’s no higher
risk i i know that uh and this stat you
can tell me if this stats true or not
but i remember hearing when i started my
small business that uh 90 of small
businesses fail in the first year or two
or something like that is that is that
even accurate i’ve heard that so many
times yeah
there’s a lot of debates um amongst the
statistics i would say it’s probably
more like 90 percent fail within a five
to ten year period
but the majority do fail within five
years so it’s very very difficult to
succeed as a small business and there’s
a lot of kind of failure to succeed in
businesses that stay open but don’t
really um you know kind of earn what you
might think of when you think of a you
know business success so it’s it’s a
very very challenging
situation um a lot of risk most of these
small business owners are risking their
own capital they’re putting in their
time they’re putting and
their their soul into this business and
when i wrote my first book i talked
about all of these other risks in terms
of you know employees and trying to find
customers and risk reward
and then you know 18 19 months ago
we get to the point in the united states
of america
where the government said no i’m sorry
you can’t open your business we’re going
to take your business for the
quote-unquote good of society something
that you know should have been eminent
domain if they were going to enact it
and we’re not properly compensated so
like the complete subjugation of your
property rights is a huge huge risk that
now all of a sudden is standing there
that really never kind of entered into
anybody’s brains before 19 months ago
well and that’s the incredible thing
about it is if you had told if i had if
someone had gone back in time and told
me this time two years ago
or any of us
the government is going to use a disease
that has a roughly one percent fatality
rate give or take something that is more
serious than the flu but not
exponentially more so uh and they’re
going to use this as a pretext to shut
down almost every business and pretty
much all of the small businesses in this
country then they’re going to hand us a
few hundred dollars
every few months of our own money uh and
at the same time in those same bills
they’re going to hand off trillions of
dollars to big businesses multinational
multi-billion dollar corporations and
themselves big government agencies um
and then they’re going to uh have a uh
employee protection loan program that is
largely going to go to big businesses
and their franchises um and there’s
going to be this massive exodus of small
business owners uh and then you know and
not to mention all the stuff that’s
happened since then and they’re gonna
run up ten you know well over 10
trillion they’re gonna spend well over
ten trillion dollars run up seven
seven trillion dollars of debt inside of
two years all of this uh for this virus
i would have said
wish i didn’t believe you but i think
that might be possible but i i wouldn’t
think that it would be accepted as
easily as it was this was fear right
they used fear to just scare us into
destroying our own livelihood
yeah i mean it was actually
it’s funny that you say that i’ve had i
had this discussion in february 2020
with my husband as you we kind of heard
what was going on in china it was pretty
clear that the virus was going to you
know be going into other places and we
said okay it’s gonna come here like
let’s say it’s bad like what would you
do like do you think that they could
like just shut everyone down for two
weeks it’s a two-week incubation period
do you think we could shut everyone down
for two weeks and after like this lively
debate we’re both like no there’s just
no way that you could do it the clever
thing that they did and again i don’t
know if you know how much of it was
intentionally clever or just kind of the
way that it falls out of the system is
that we didn’t have
lockdowns or shutdown i mean not
everybody was locked down it was just
certain people that were horribly deemed
non-essential by the government like the
government can give you the essential or
non-essential label
and so the people with the clout and the
connections and who were in the club
didn’t feel the pain um they actually
did quite well i mean if they had shut
down walmart and target and amazon’s
warehouse in your local grocery store if
the federal reserve hadn’t intervened to
prop up the stock market and everything
was spiraling down
i think it’s safe to say that this
wouldn’t have lasted like two or three
weeks i think there would have been a
huge outcry and we would have been done
with but because the most vulnerable
part of society was the one that was the
sacrificial lamb as it always as always
is the case um and everybody else was
kind of left to go about their business
and in many cases benefit from it that’s
how they were able to get away with it
and then the messaging to sort of the
average lay person the media did a
horrible job per usual
holding anyone accountable they just
went with whatever the story was
and ran cover for these you know
horrible infringements on rights and
your ridiculous policies and so that
then created amongst certain people this
culture of fear and irrationality and
the fact that we were already polarized
and the government had already tricked
us into pointing the figures at each
other instead of back at the government
um just sort of exacerbated the whole
so i keep seeing uh in the comments a
reference to the nfib the natural or nf
yeah and a
national federation of it yeah and a
national federation of independent
business and none of it is positive so i
do you have any take on the nfib they’re
basically saying it’s supposed to be a
small business uh lobby but they’re
completely ineffectual they don’t really
lobby for small businesses do you have a
take on them i i’ve heard of them but i
don’t know much about it
in the book i mean nfidb i think
first of all there isn’t any group that
does an effective job in lobbying for
smallness so let’s just let’s just put
that out there
there just isn’t one so let’s put that
aside nfib
is i’ve always used as sort of a source
of statistics and small they do the
small business optimism index and
they’re sort of more of an organization
that kind of follows the pulse of what’s
going on with small business rather than
being sort of a lobbying group on behalf
of small business so i think that
they’ve been very effective in terms of
you know that aspect but again you know
there is no because there’s you know
that’s the whole point of small business
small business is decentralized like
that’s the great part about it it allows
economic freedom for anyone and everyone
but because it’s decentralized it’s
decentralized and so
it’s over different geographies it’s
over different industries it’s over
different size ranges people are in
business for different reasons so it’s
very difficult to get a group of those
together in agreement on things and then
have enough money to like you know kind
of compete with these big businesses and
unfortunately because the federal
government is you know so large and it
has sort of overtaken everything um you
know under its purview
it it creates a really bad situation for
small business and and even like at the
local level like the u.s chamber where a
lot of people’s local chambers do a
really good job for them on a national
level like i get their newsletters and
sometimes i’m like want to put my head
through the screen about some of the
things that they’re supporting so it’s
clear you know on a national level even
the groups that are supposed to be the
small business champions whether it’s
the the sba
who put out loans and did so on a
discriminatory basis to women and
minority-owned businesses got caught
discriminating and so they then said
okay well we’re going to pull the
funding from them and do it in a
different way instead of going back to
get enough funding for everyone those
are the kinds of things that you’re up
against the the minimum passable hey we
did something is what’s been happening
for small business which again is
unfortunate given the fact that it’s
half the economy but 99.9 percent of all
the entities
that’s so and this is the problem with
the political process is that it’s more
about the theater of the thing than
actual value if i as a politician or as
a a political party or as a even a
political body like like congress or the
the white house or
a state legislature or the governor can
say look at everything we’ve done and
sort of you know
you know uh uh dazzle you with a bunch
of things that were done without
actually demonstrating any of them were
effective then it can sort of
i guess again dazzle people into saying
okay i guess they’re doing their best
they’re doing you know yes things are
bad but they’re doing their best they’re
trying their best the interesting thing
about this is the interesting thing
about government or at least big
government um
the coercive
and centrally planned
nature of it means that
you either have to choose between
using your business as a means of
consolidating power which means you’re
using the political process more than
actually feeding the market but it means
the other it means it the other way too
if your primary purpose is to feed the
need in the market and to prosper as a
result of that you’re far less uh
well-footed and well-suited to
consolidate power and try to work
towards the political process so it’s
almost like it’s a mutually it’s not
necessarily mutually exclusive but
there’s certainly
two different there’s very little
overlap between that so the more a
business wants to grow into this mega
business the less and less it’s actually
serving the needs of the market and the
more and more it’s consolidating its
power to make sure it gets fed when no
one else does and sometimes by actually
you know doing a malthusian thing of
reducing what everyone’s getting just to
make sure i’m the only one eating which
is basically what we’ve seen in the last
year and a half yeah no it’s very well
said and i always tell people you know
when i think about like concepts like
free enterprise or capitalism and
central planning i kind of look at a
spectrum and i’m looking at
one half of the economy that’s you know
standing for freedom and choice and
transparency with those guardrails
property rights um you know to some
extent obviously those were kind of
thrown out the window over the last 19
months and then you as you move along
the spectrum you have a handful of
people using force coercion control and
usually a lot of opacity you know making
decisions on behalf of everyone and
you’re right that you know as government
has gotten bigger
the half of the economy that is large
needs to be in sort of cahoots
with the big government in order to
uh be useful and to get the things that
unfortunately tend to make them um and
the market left competitive and so it
does become the self-fulfilling cycle
and it’s moved us away from free
enterprise and capitalism towards the
central planning and that’s why like the
best thing we can do if we really shrunk
the size of the government and took them
out of you know kind of all of these
different things that they’ve stuck
their noses in and their hands in then
these big businesses wouldn’t be
spending their time doing those things
and like you said they would be
competing on a fairer playing field and
actually servicing the market better
right exactly this is not a free market
there are people acting in as free of a
market as they can the closest thing to
a free market we have are small and
medium-sized businesses trying to feed
the needs but even they again you know
the example that desiree gave even they
are having to deal with the minefield of
regulatory burden that that they have to
face uh in order to do that but
certainly from a big business standpoint
we do not have a free market we have an
oligarchical system that is fed from the
top down um you we now you mentioned you
know that small businesses make up half
of the roughly half of the economy but
we also did see what you often refer to
as the largest wealth transfer in
history from main street to wall street
are they still half of the economy now
or i mean
do we have solid numbers on just how
much the shift from small business to
big business happened in this last year
and a half
so it it this all goes back to
measurements and then it also goes back
to like how we come up with statistics
in the time frame
what happened which is somewhat strange
but also
somewhat predictable
given all the decisions that were made
by central planners um you know over the
last year and a half or so
is that a lot of people actually started
side hustle businesses so if you they
left the workforce and you were getting
unemployment or an enhanced unemployment
benefit and maybe some stimulus you’re
like well i’m not doing anything so i’m
gonna you know sell potholders on etsy
or whatever you know whatever it is
right the net amount so even though we
know that at a minimum
hundreds of thousands and i think the
numbers in the low one million to two
million mark at least that many
businesses were murdered during this
time period on a net basis so far
we’re actually showing growth in the
number of businesses because all these
people kind of took on these side
hustles during the process so of course
the narrative is going to be like oh
look we’ve actually spurred business
creation ignoring the fact that you know
you had millions of small businesses
that were murdered um and then i think
that you know the next
probably 18 months is going to be
important to see how it shakes out
because there’s so many small businesses
that were just kind of hanging on by a
and in many cases you know they had
personal debt in order to
affect the business before covet even
came along and to see sort of the long
tail effects of not only the direct
mandates but all the the kind of longer
tail issues like the shortage of labor
and the supply chain or whatnot i don’t
think we’ll have a really good picture
of what this all looks like for probably
another year and a half but we know that
for many it was a bloodbath um and uh
you know millions and millions either
that you survive or just just hanging on
by a threat
i know anecdotally i had many friends
who had you know and loved ones who had
spent years building up their small
business only to lose it over the course
of a few weeks and just there was
nothing they could do about it
especially in the opening months of the
pandemic but even the ones that were
able to hang on and they thought there’s
no way this is going to last past uh you
know at past the summer and they were in
a state where it did and then they
finally had to had to wrap things up by
the end of the year i’ve even had a few
that were able to hold out all through
last year and then with you know when
things started ramping back up this year
that was that was their uh you know
their their point where they couldn’t
hold on anymore um and uh and some of
them it’s because of the labor shortage
now at the same time as you said i know
other people who always had worked for
someone else and now they have a bunch
of side hustles they got involved in the
gig economy they’re doing stuff on etsy
a couple of them started their own
patreon and are doing stuff there you
know there’s all sorts of different uh
things that have happened which is is
that why we’re seeing this push for uh
the irs to have more uh view of you know
your your bank account and your and and
you know requiring venmo and cash app
and all these other things to disclose
uh all of your transaction information
is that are they seeing that there’s
this new
rise of entrepreneurs and making sure
they got to get their hooks in as soon
as it happens
oh you me so you don’t think that it’s
actually because they’re going after the
billionaires as jenna yella goes oh
we’re we’re trying you have to
billionaire taxes
no listen six hundred dollars in their
listen listen if you how do you eat an
elephant one bite at a time okay if you
want to go after billionaires you got to
get them for those 650 transactions or
you’re never going to find them carol so
obviously this is about billionaires is
it possible even though the main focus
of this is clearly to go after
billionaires is it possible that this
might negatively affect small businesses
too yeah okay so let’s just walk back to
the american rescue plan because like
this actually got kind of got lost in
the shuffle so this is kind of like the
war on this on small business this is
the war on the middle class
and it’s all tied together it all goes
back to like either you were really
wealthy and powerfully powerfully
connected and you’re inside the club or
you’re really poor and we’re gonna buy
you off but like if you’re in the middle
like we got to find like something to do
with you
so the in the american rescue plan the
you know almost 2 trillion dollar like
idiot plan that came out in march after
you know the vaccines had been rolled
out after things have been stabilized
people’s personal savings rate had been
you know as high as it’s been like since
world war ii
um you know they pushed through the
stimulus but of course it’s never just
stimulus there’s always these like weird
things that are buried in these bills
that most people don’t pay attention to
so buried into that particular bill
which goes into effect the reason i
think people haven’t talked about it
because it hasn’t gone into effect yet
it goes into effect um january 1st of
is that if you
are selling on etsy or ebay or all these
these places it used to be that they
would issue a 10k
uh there’s to me that’s like a 10.99
i’ve got my financial head out at 1099
for tax reporting purposes uh if you had
done about 20 000 worth of transactions
or about 200 transactions during the
year saying like we know you’re not a
hobbyist this like you’re you’re doing
this on an ongoing basis your business
so you know you should be recording this
this has now been shifted to if you make
600 600 is the magic number if you make
you are now going to get this reported
to the government so if you’re like a
hobbyist you know who maybe sells a few
sneakers or you’ve got you know your
tupperware collection from the 80s and
you throw it up but like you are now if
you over the course of the year it
aggregates at least 600 like you will be
getting that 1099k report sent to the
irs and sent to you so you better report
that stuff so so that’s the first piece
of it so again
this is not about
the big guys this is about going after
hobbyists moms you know the gig economy
all these kinds of things and then that
second piece of it um is is really
looking into your bank accounts and just
to be clear because there’s been a lot
of confusion about this what they are
proposing and who knows what’s going to
end up happening if anything is they’re
saying if you have any accounts
that has 600 dollars in it
we are going to ask for your aggregate
inflows and outflows so they’re not
looking at every transaction
individually reported they’re looking at
the aggregate so if you buy a whole
bunch of stuff you that’s one number and
you know if you get paid a whole bunch
of stuff like that’s another those two
numbers are coming in for every single
account or
if you have a transaction that’s more
than 600 that flows through the account
they’re also gonna get a report so
either of those can be a trigger
and again this is not about going after
the 600 and something billionaires in
the united states as many of my
followers have pointed out to me there’s
a reason they’re also trying to hire 87
000 irs agents and again it’s not to go
after 600 billionaires so
they are coming after you i mean people
are like oh you’re being hysterical i’m
like i’m not being hysterical like
people need to know
what is happening and
this is not going to plug any gap they
just want to be in control and i think
they want the data to move towards this
digital currency to ultimately move
towards a social currency system where
at some point in time because you know
it worked the last time they decided
they were going to be tyrannical and
tell you what to do but in the future oh
i’m sorry like you’ve eaten three steaks
this month the the limit is two for you
know climate change so we’re gonna you
know cut it off we see this in your
transaction i’m sorry you can’t eat that
stick i mean i know it sounds dystopian
and ridiculous but does it really after
you know the last year and a half i
don’t think so yeah i was going to say
any anyone who’s going they’d never do
that what would you have said in 2019 if
we told you all the stuff that happened
in the last year and a half was going to
happen you would have said there’s no
way not at least not for quite some time
they’re going to do it in a couple
months and by the time it shows up half
the country is going to be well a
sizable minority of the country is going
to be cheering it on and demanding even
more because they’re scared and that’s
what they do i have people now who’ve
already said oh well why do you care if
you’re not cheating why do you care if
they have that information i mean there
are people
with this mindset
already kind of fostering that narrative
and that’s going to be the narrative if
you’re playing on the straight and
narrow why do you care we’re just trying
to catch the cheaters sure you are sure
that’s what this is all about like we’re
employing somebody for like a hundred
and something thousand dollars a year
because like somebody on ebay like
misreported 15 that makes a lot of sense
yeah and the government never ropes
anyone up on things they didn’t do i
mean that’s that’s why we don’t have to
have a fifth amendment or fourth
amendment protections or you know
attorneys in court they all they just
want to find the truth they’re certainly
not gonna you know incorrectly accuse
anyone of anything no the and you know
like they never weaponized the irs
either they’ve never done no
they would do that political use of the
irs first of all how dare you suggest
that anyone even thinks that i think
it’s ridiculous and you know 600
transaction it’s not as though back in
december uh almost everyone got 600
like it’s so blatant what they’re doing
anyway so
here you know we can talk about for
there i have many followers who may not
own a small business may not work for a
small business may not realize how it’s
affecting them uh but what is you know
for example
uh the uh
we were talking about this this thing
with the supply chain what’s happening
right now there are all these ships that
are out to sea and we’re now gonna play
a game
uh usually it’s similar to six degrees
of kevin bacon this is going to be i
guess six degrees of small business
you’re going to explain how this
because i i almost jokingly said well
you know it’s not like that had anything
to do with small business and you’re
like actually actually it does so it so
explain how what’s going on with small
business is affecting this backlog of
ships that we’re seeing where you know
the supply chains being so destroyed
that you know there’s there’s like
literally hundreds of ships waiting at
shore to be able to deliver their goods
to the us
yeah i mean so this goes back to the
central planners
deciding that they were going to shut
down like a third of the economy
and that they could just turn it back on
whenever they wanted as if they were
power cycling a modem
right so it kept a ton of people and it
still kept a ton of people out of the
workforce i mean we’re at the point now
um the jolt report just came out this
week 10.4
job openings so when you don’t have
people who are able to work
um things happen in terms of the supply
chain on every single level it affects
the trucking supply a lot of people who
were truckers decided they were going to
either you know change jobs or go work
for amazon because there wasn’t as much
of a demand for things like oil during
the pandemic because people had to stay
home and then you know now
it’s hard to get those people back
because they’ve transitioned and it’s
not like you can just pull somebody off
the street and say hey you know do you
want to drive an oil truck uh go ahead
and get in there and so you know that
level of disruption in terms of moving
goods from one place to another
is as a direct result of the decision
it’s also then affecting supply and
demand because they put a ton of money
into people’s hands um through stimulus
through the unemployment bonuses and so
all of that money plus all the money
that let’s not let’s not just gloss over
the trillions of dollars that the fed
printed and put into the market and so
all that market is now chasing
fewer goods because uh you know if
you’ve got fewer people working
obviously they cannot produce at the
same level that they would have produced
before and so the prices of everything
um ultimately goes up because they have
to pay labor more if they can get it and
because of your basic supply and demand
so everything that you’re seeing with
the small businesses the plight of the
small businesses that the shortage of
the workers uh the inability to get
certain kinds of goods and services the
increase in prices you know this is all
just a couple steps up the food chain
from that set of decisions from the
central planners because of course they
think they know better than the markets
and the frustrating part for me in all
of this is you know you hear
jerome powell um head of the federal
reserve come out you hear janet yellen
you hear these people come on go oh well
we never
anticipated that this would be the
outcome whether it was you know they’ve
been off on inflation by a factor of at
least three at this point the supply
chains you know i’ve been doing economic
commentary this entire time like i
talked about it from day one i have a
lot of other people mitch rochelle and
yeah i could name like you know ten
other people we’ve been talking about
this day like we all knew this
how did you not know this and you’re in
charge of making these decisions so
again either they’re incompetent
or they’re just lying and in that
particular case i’m not going to let you
choose your own adventure they’re lying
there’s no way that these people did not
know that
although the thing is i mean you’re a
very smart light you are the uh expert
you are the small business queen uh
you’re also the heir to the schneiderman
electric fortune like i mean it’s
possible that you just had the keys to
this and you knew when they didn’t so
but you know i i agree i i think that
this is i just like to say my father
would’ve been was so happy that you
actually made him the small business
owner because he just worked for
somebody else’s electric company like he
he wasn’t that far up the food chain so
there was no schneiderman electric
unfortunately i am creating the mythos
of schmeider
schneiderman electric okay and that’s
just it is what it is on this show there
was a schneiderman electric okay
everywhere else you can say that this
show schneiderlin electric no um so
it’s incredible watching this because
like you said these are supposed to be
the the geniuses running the economy
right and and this is what we talk about
in liberty are you are you a libertarian
my platform as i think i’ve mentioned to
you offline is i stand for small
business small government and big hair
big hair so yeah so basically you know
it’s i always say i’m like libertarian
adjacent or libertarian-ish
individual rights-ish
i’m never comfortable joining a group
it’s just a personal thing um but i
would but i i voted for you
by the way that’s the most libertarian
answer to that i don’t join things i’m
just doing my own thing okay i’m sorry
go ahead
so i did vote for you and joe um
actually voted libertarian the last two
elections so it’s not that i i am or i’m
not i’m hanging around the edges let’s
just say it that way you haven’t claimed
me yet folks you haven’t claimed me yet
but i’m hanging around the edges
i say are you a libertarian she says
well you know i mean i vote libertarian
and have been for several years now but
i don’t want to be grouped in with
anything i don’t do groups the most
libertarian by the way if you want to
start a libertarian big hair caucus i’m
the guy that started the waffle house
caucus it started as a joke we’re now
gonna we’re on pace to be the largest
caucus in the party very soon so if you
need help i can help you with that but
so um so for those that believe in free
markets we can put it that way for those
who believe in free markets we recognize
that the problem with these centrally
planned economies is that even if you
put the smartest people in charge of it
ever they can never understand all the
market inputs happening at the at the
micro level at the local level that they
need to know to be able to make big
decisions it’s not even possible to make
a big decision that can equitably and
fairly affect everyone it’s best to to
leave that money and that power as
decentralized as possible and of course
those types of positions don’t attract
the smartest and most ethical people
they attract sociopaths and liars and
idiots and morons and people that are
literally sundowning and going senile in
front of us on tv while they run the
country like they’re they attract the
worst absolute worst people and even if
they were great people it still wouldn’t
work as well as just giving people the
freedom to be able to do things
themselves now this wait can i just add
into that for a second i was having a
conversation with someone earlier today
it’s like imagine that you had like a
blind resume and you you said you want
each member of your congress and all
these quote-unquote important people and
leadership positions leadership
positions of government to put their
resume like like what they know
like what their background is maybe some
transcripts of things that they’ve said
and done and you just left the name off
you left the party it was blind and you
said you put this in front of people who
we’re going to put these people in
charge of running
8 trillion plus dollars before covid on
all different levels you know per view
that extends into like every aspect of
your life from health care to school to
whatnot like
what do you think of this group of
people you’ll be like are you kidding me
like you those are the people that you
have in charge i mean that’s
what the system that we have in place
yeah so it’s like it’s just such a like
you don’t have that those professional
smartest people which like you said
still wouldn’t be able to do it
and they have all of those things
underneath them i mean it is like the
worst of all outcomes and the fact that
more people can’t see that sort of very
obvious and clear situation is pretty
mind-boggling yeah i remember as a kid
hearing the um will rogers i think it
was will rogers quote that we do better
maybe it was h h l menke who it was
someone who said basically we’d do
better to just randomly pick people in
the phone book
i was like you know i laughed and i’m
like but that’s not really true it’s no
true this attracts bad people like this
much power attracts
monsters and idiots that are used by
monsters the the useful idiots
sociopaths and they’re useful idiots and
that’s that’s the problem we have here
now here here is a question i have about
what i think might be coming up and you
can tell me if i’m if i’m if i and my my
fan ken who who put this up if we’re
maybe uh getting ahead of ourselves here
um i he said ken said i’m a wildland
fire contractor new to the business side
of it i bought a fire engine and got it
outfitted ready to go for next year it
looks like i will not be able to be a
to be able to respond due to the
mandatory vaccination order for all
federal government employees contractors
and subcontractors so one less engine to
fight wildfires now putting aside the
absurdity of that i can’t help but feel
again i’m a libertarian i i i
unfortunately my predictions the more
cynical they are it just takes slightly
longer for them to come true it’s not
really that they that they ever don’t
happen it just might take longer i feel
like the next big thing that they’re
gonna hammer small businesses with is
you know this vaccine mandate right now
which hasn’t even actually been filed is
being focused on big businesses but it
feels like that’s not gonna last it
feels like the next big thing they’re
gonna slam these small businesses with
is is vaccine mandates or something
related to the vaccines am i am i off
so i mean anything that they sort of
trial run with a big business that they
exempt the small business for
um if it endures and i think that’s the
question is you know will this mandate
hold up or you know does this virus
cycle out naturally by the time it gets
through the courts and the whole thing
becomes mood but yeah it always cycles
down to small business um and you know
usually they’ll find a way for the big
guys to come up with some exemption or
work around so the fact that they even
like you started in that way makes my
spidey sense or back in the day the
schneider scents um tingle a little bit
and say
yeah like what what’s the problem but
regardless of what it is it still will
impact small business so even let’s say
let’s say the nurses the firefighters
the flight attendants the pilots you
know so on and so forth decide i’m gonna
sit on the sidelines and wait this out
it’s not like they’re probably going to
go join your local small business
they’re probably not waiting tables or
cutting hair or doing those things in
the interim all it does is drag on the
economy and as we talked about before
that creates this sort of additional
vicious cycle keeps more people out
increases inflation and all of those
things end up having the biggest impact
on the small business because the small
business doesn’t have the access to
capital to be able to weather the storm
they don’t have the ability to invest in
technology to maybe make replacements
for some of the labor um so like all of
the things that even if they don’t
directly come at the small business it
always ends up hurting them i mean the
perfect example
coming out of the great recession was
the dodd-frank legislation so you know
you had in the great recession
a lot of financial institutions they
took on too much risk they were deemed
too big to fail and you know got a bunch
of taxpayer money
um instead of a slap
instead of a slap on the wrist they got
a bunch of taxpayer money
and then they’re supposed to the flap on
the wrist was we’re going to legislate
you which is always a huge gift to big
business instead of small business
and so when dodd-frank came out and the
statistics are in the book and i i’ll
give you like kind of macro but you can
get the actual numbers in there because
i can’t they can always get jumbled in
my head but basically it was something
like you know within the years
afterwards the formation of new small
business banks um went from like an
average of a hundred a year to like
and it killed a bunch of small business
and community banks and then i know this
is gonna be super surprising to you and
probably everyone watching but which
banks do you think lend to small
businesses small banks or big banks it’s
the small banks so small business
lending like took a huge nose dive
while letting the big businesses
increase so something that was meant to
reign in these big financial
actually gave them free reign and less
competition and ended up killing off
small business and that that’s the cycle
that happens every single time so that’s
why i’m always you know skeptical of oh
we’re going to do this thing and it’s
only gonna to be you know for these big
guys you know it’s that same thing once
you conceive the principle you can see
the principle it’s why they they’re
talking about taxing the rich to the
billionaires but then we’re talking
about the 600 accounts it’s like every
single time it just always comes back to
the people who don’t have the political
clout connections
yeah it is the foxes saying you know the
problem is that the hens aren’t being
regulated enough and it always just so
happens to help the foxes and and it’s
one of the things that you know going
back to what you were talking about with
the supply chain how something that they
did that hurt small businesses worked
its way i guess up the food chain to the
global shipping logistics system
and the supply chain into the us
for you and me and anyone with common
sense or anyone who isn’t you know in on
it uh the uh and on the scam you know
this would lend itself to the fact that
central planning is a bad way to plan an
economy but for the peop for people who
it is essential to centrally plan the
economy for them to continue their grift
this really just lends itself to more
automation that they don’t have to reply
on rely on labor uh because they’ll have
you know more and more robots and
machines doing it this at least
initially also hurts small businesses
more because the benefit of of
automation is that you have that initial
high up front cost of purchasing and
retrofitting but then ongoing you save a
bunch of money on an economy of scale
but for a small business that can’t
afford a robot now they’re screwed and
especially when the you know everything
from minimum wage to every labor
regulation health regulation
environmental regulation uh occupants or
safety regulation everything else uh
keeps hitting them is is that not
another is is automation potentially
another the next thing that’s going to
hit small businesses hard as well i mean
it’s huge and there’s a reason why you
look down at the breakdown of the 31.7
million small businesses
six million of them have employees but
the rest are solopreneurs they rely on
contractors and the like
and the reason is is that it’s so
difficult and costly to hire that first
employee and it’s because of the
government i mean the government’s
inflation of everything is something
that we don’t spend any time talking
about uh whether it’s the costs that
have been added to your house or the
cost of opening a business or the cost
of keeping people out of the labor force
and because of the rising minimum wages
because of the additional benefits that
you have to have new things like
insurance and in my business you know i
have somebody who works from home on a
computer who works for me and i have to
have um workers compensation insurance
in illinois that costs i mean it’s like
not funny but it’s like ridiculous like
thousands of dollars that could be going
you know to my employee but no has to go
to like some government crony and on the
illinois website they actually brag
about the fact that they have like the
most workers compensation insurance
underwriters out of any state and i’m
like because they make them not a good
that’s that’s horrible but people are
like oh wow that’s you know that’s
amazing um
so yeah so like it was like all of those
things um end up being an issue and yeah
like from an automation standpoint as i
said if you don’t have access to capital
whether your business model could afford
it or not if you don’t have the access
to capital um either way it doesn’t
matter you’re not going to be able to
figure out and automate it and obviously
it’s just harder for that small business
the other thing that small businesses
are going to have to contend with
probably before automation is i don’t
know how familiar you are with the pro
um that’s making its way through
congress but this is the anti-gig worker
that was sort of like started in
california under ab5 and that has been
adopted on a national basis that’s
basically trying to destroy gig work so
that’s 59 million
jobs that are either solopreneurs or
contractors that are used by small
businesses who either may not need
somebody full time or is like hey you
know i can’t afford all the costs of
bringing out an employee but i can pay
you x and maybe you get a bunch of other
clients and and you figure out your own
health insurance and other benefits and
whatnot and so they’re really uh for
people who who like to talk about your
choice um your labor your choice is
completely being threatened by all of
this big government obviously we’re
saying that with the vaccine mandate but
then you know you’ll be seeing it with
proact which by the way is already
passed um i think it’s the house and is
now sitting in the senate which is
really scary
yeah all of these things boil down to
one person saying hey i’d like to
provide this service to someone for or
good or service to someone for a certain
amount of money if only i could find
someone who could give me money and then
someone else goes hey that’s what a
coincidence i have some money and i’d
really like that good or service and the
government goes
no no no no no this needs me and i need
to get involved in this something’s
wrong here that’s this looks fishy now
you’re complaining that they make you
get uh workers compensation insurance
but i mean thankfully i mean just be
happy they didn’t make you install a
thousand gallon grease trap i mean that
i mean like think about that so i don’t
know what kind of bakery desiree was
thinking about opening um it sounds like
maybe cookies or cakes which seems super
dangerous so i’m really glad that the
government has saved us from delicious
cookies delicious cookies and cakes but
you know it it’s so it’s it’s an ongoing
issue i mean even people who just want
to braid hair for a living like yes who
would do something that every mom and
dad does to their kid before they send
them off to school and then you have to
go out and spend thousands of dollars to
get a license and then like get
retrained most of the training has
nothing to do with them it’s just a
blatant cash grab and again the people
that these are these rules are uh
impacting you know desiree a woman
entrepreneur who wants to make that leap
you know the hair braiding obviously in
a lot of urban and underserved
communities like how are you helping the
vulnerable they’re not they want those
people to become dependent on the
government and exactly
just be part of this power grab and it’s
super blatant
and uh you know i wish it just we could
get more people to see it
yeah government breaks your legs this is
a quote i use almost every day from
harry brown who in my opinion is the
best uh with all due respect to all of
the other presidential candidates the
libertarian party’s ever had uh he is in
fact he i believe was the best one we
ever had joe jorgensen was actually his
running mate in 1996. she was his spike
yeah she was his spike um but she but he
said harry brown used to say
government’s good at one thing uh it
breaks someone’s legs takes their wallet
uses some of the money to buy them some
crutches and says if it wasn’t for me
you wouldn’t have those crutches and
that’s what we see over and over again
the leg breaking in this case is all the
regulatory burdens that they put on
entrepreneurs small businesses anyone
trying to get ahead who doesn’t want to
have to work for someone else who
doesn’t want to have to live on
assistance all of these burdens are
basically a regressive barrier so the
less money and capital you are already
born with the less able you are to climb
that barrier and the more relegated you
are to either just working for someone
else if you’re fortunate enough to even
find a job uh or uh having to you know
uh uh
live off of assistance or working in
something illegal and now risking jail
time and criminalization and all the
terrible things that come from that and
it’s it’s a it’s an outer nightmare the
the last thing i want to talk to you go
if i could just interject because it
reminds me of the ppp because a lot of
people yes it’s the same kind of thing
where they were like oh but government
thinking ppp and i kept saying uh you
know not no i’m familiar with harry
brown i think i quoted him in the book
i’m not sure if it was the final draft
or a previous draft but i definitely was
kind of following stuff um but in a
similar vein it was like basically the
government was like arson arsonists that
like burned down your house and then
started to go fund me and went like
aren’t you glad that i set up a gofundme
and raised a few bucks for you i mean
it’s like it’s just so insane and i
don’t think people understand that ppp
was a fraction of the overall money that
was spent not just in cares but in all
of the relief packages and that it
didn’t even come close to compensating
people for the subjugation of their
property rights so you know it’s it’s
that that well well we threw a little
bit of money you should be thankful look
at the great things that i did
of your money that i stole from you
after i hobbled you
what a great thing i’ve done what a
fantastic thing clearly we need more of
me and what i do um since i am a
libertarian and am contractually
obligated to mention the federal reserve
anytime i have a conversation that is
longer than 15 minutes long can we talk
about the federal reserve very briefly
so for a little bit of background uh
since the federal reserve was created
ironically enough on the same year that
the uh irs was created uh but in 1913 it
was created and in the uh 108 years that
it has existed the us dollar has lost 98
cents on its value in other words
imagine if your money was worth 50 times
what it is right now in today’s dollars
that’s how much you have been robbed by
the federal reserve can you talk
specifically a little bit about how the
federal reserve has harmed entrepreneurs
and small businesses
absolutely and i did devote an entire
chapter chapter five of the book is all
about the federal reserve and but you’re
not a libertarian
i tried to use very clear language for
people who aren’t economic wonks and
like you try to sesame street it because
it is super complicated intentionally um
yeah i’m also not hunting libertarian
but i did happen to quote murray
rothbard a few times as well just just
put that out there if only there was a
term to describe your your belief system
when it comes to economics
um but in terms of like i just want to
put in context of what’s happened over
the last year and a half and then we can
certainly go back um in time a little
bit further but when i talk about this
historic wealth transfer it was done on
two levels and i think most people
understand i shuddered a small business
people couldn’t shop there those dollars
went to amazon and walmart and their
revenue programs i think people
understand that the part that they don’t
understand is the trillions of dollars
that the federal reserve printed as well
suppressing the interest rates you know
abnormally and keeping them at almost
zero percent
um and that is what enabled in terms of
the market the multiple expansion and
the asset inflation to the point where
seven tech companies in 2020 gained 3.4
trillion dollars in value oh by the way
just about the amount of money that was
printed during that period of time by
the federal reserve coincidence yeah
pretty much uh not a coincidence um
but basically you know
they are
suppressing these interest rates
if you are a saber if you are a retiree
if you’re somebody who’s you’re used to
to having some sort of return on your
money when you invest it uh you put it
in the bank into a cd into a money
market fund you’re basically earning
nothing because that’s what they did to
the market
um but then they go and they loan that
out to companies and also almost no
interest rates as well as throw all of
this new money that they’ve created out
of nowhere that devalues the money
that’s scored in the system
and the big companies then can access
that capital and use that to compete
big businesses and it inflates the value
of those particular companies and it
basically disrupts risk in the entire
system so if you’re somebody who’s
trying to get a return on investment you
have to take on more risk in order to
get the same return that you would have
in normal times um and it got to the
point where i mean there was so much
money that was put into the system and
the risk was so far disrupted by all of
this printing
that some of the bigger companies had
nothing left to do with it they started
competing with individuals buying a
single-family housing so like now you go
out you try and buy a house and you’re
competing with a private equity firm or
a hedge fund or blackrock
to purchase a house
and so this is all done because these
quote-unquote central planners um think
that they know how to manage the stock
market and the overall economic system
better than the free market does
unfortunately all that does is it just
keeps taking money away from mainstream
you know the small businesses suffered
the retirees suffer the sabers suffered
anybody who didn’t own assets
suffered and were of course now paying
on the other side of it with increased
inflation which again if you don’t own
assets you’re not getting any
kind of ancillary benefit out of it
and you know that that’s the the kind of
the wealth transfer over time and
like you said you know this started in
1913 but it’s really accelerated
incredibly rapidly
in the last 20 years like really the
last you know kind of whatever it is
15 years now i mean it’s
the amount of money that has been
printed the amount of years that we have
had zero percent interest rates i mean
it’s just it’s
unfathomable to think um and you know
part of the issue is that they have
actually not to say that their original
mandate made any sense
but they have they’re not even
fulfilling their original mandate and
their original mandate
is to stabilize prices obviously you
know they’re not doing a great job with
um and to maximize employment
obviously 10.4 million jobs they’re not
doing a great job with that and like
let’s be honest like you know
any sort of monetary policy is not going
to get anybody back into the workforce
at this point in time so what is really
their agenda and i i keep talking about
this hidden agenda which is not that
hidden from the federal reserve which is
to obviously prop up wall street for
their buddies and their cronies but also
to give a shield for spending to the
federal government because the reality
is that the federal government cannot
for interest rates to increase because
the overall amount of our national debt
is so high
that as it continues to increase we’re
just going to spend more and more of our
spending on interest expense to service
that debt which will crowd out spending
on all these other ridiculous things
that they spend on um but you know at
least that’s spending on something and
not just servicing the debt um and then
also i mean people laugh at like this
whole modern monetary theory mmt
um but basically we have been monetizing
the debts i mean the whole reason during
these these rescue packages that we were
able to put so much money out there it’s
not like there was another country or
all these investors who were standing by
ready to buy like treasuries
the fed was buying them so they are at
this point in time monetizing the debt
and enabling the bad and reckless
spending of the us government that if
they weren’t there
uh the government wouldn’t be able to
continue to do so it’s just a very sick
symbiotic relationship um and it’s
something that really needs to be
reigned in but like how many people do
you know that have called their congress
person and said hey like i really could
you bring up raiding in the fed
not enough i know what i i was going to
say i know a lot but i’m a libertarian
but in the general public not so many in
the general public not so many and it
it’s intentionally kept obscure and and
arcane for that reason right it’s not
visceral it’s hard to make it
right yeah exactly the two analogies i
always use are you know imagine if
you’re playing a game of monopoly and
you know you and i are playing by the
rules you know we have our turn we roll
the die we have the fixed amount of
money that we were given we try to you
know make money as well as we can by you
know buying and selling and so forth and
renting and uh you know developing the
properties that we have uh but there’s
the third player that can go to the
banker and say give me a billion notes
and stick them with a bill for it or
actually stick us all with the bill for
it um and they just get however many
notes they want um that’s how they’re
gaming the system not just in and like
you said in the natural way people
understand that that means i can buy
everything up but what they also don’t
get is that it means that i can drive up
the price of everything so even with
whatever amount of money you still have
or you and i still have that other
player by making everything so expensive
by buying everything up now what little
money we have we can’t even buy with
that and and the other analogy i use is
imagine if we had a you know a slice uh
if we had you know a pizza and i said
okay you get eight slices of this pizza
and originally or you get four slices of
this pizza and it was originally sliced
into eight then i slice it into sixteen
you still get your four slices but now
you have a quarter of that slice when
you keep printing out notes federal
reserve notes without having a
corresponding increase in the overall
value of the monetary supply you’re
making each one of those notes that much
less valuable before i get into a whole
rant about how the military-industrial
complex is toppling governments just to
keep our monetary system afloat which i
mean hopefully what we’ve just said i
want to react to that because you know
on your monopoly example i feel like you
know one of my friend’s father’s because
he used to do that
oh okay he would do that give me a
billion dollars yeah somebody who plays
monopoly that way um but you know i also
just like it’s interesting if you and i
made up a bunch of money in our bank
accounts and tried to go buy things with
that like we would call that fraud
i mean that that’s you like just adding
dollars in and saying like oh i’m gonna
go buy like that’s considered fraud when
you and i do it somehow when the federal
reserve does it it’s monetary policy
it’s very interesting how that happens
and it’s literally the exact same thing
it is an entity saying
this money exists now this i just have
just made a trillion dollars and i’m go
i think i’m gonna give it to these same
people i always give it to and i’m gonna
lend a bunch of it to the federal
government and they can pay me back over
time uh by with federal with the
treasury notes and everyone else will
have to pay that off future generations
that aren’t even born yet which by the
way if you haven’t even been born yet
and there’s already taxes being run up
in your name that’s as close to taxation
without representation as i could ever
think of but what do i know um
have you ever tried to take that one to
court on behalf of like somebody’s
unborn kid i feel like that’s a good
that’s a good thing to so
they don’t have standing they don’t
exist yet this is the problem with the
court system we need laws that allow
people that don’t exist to sue and then
we can finally end the federal reserve
by suing on behalf of the estimated 30
million kids or whatever they’re gonna
be born so
all these things that are happening
we’re seeing it many other people are
seeing it but it’s not it’s it does get
mentioned in the mainstream media but
it’s not getting covered the way that it
should i would imagine like this is the
problem not the nonsense they’re talking
why do you think that it’s not getting
more coverage so i i have two working
theories i mean obviously i have no idea
but i always have a working theory about
different things um one of it is is that
they’re very complicit
in the entire scenario as me as media
and i think an examination
um truthfully of all the things that
they should be talking about would
expose the fact that they’ve been
complicit i think the other piece which
is sort of a sign of the times is the
polarization of the sort of
two major political parties and the fact
that it’s become you know part sport
part religion at this point in time and
the fact of the matter is that that both
parties are to blame
for this you know i have to point out to
people kind of every day on twitter who
don’t want to hear this but like these
bad policies at least in the last 18
months um and then obviously you know
things with the federal reserve before
then and so on and so forth like
happened under the last administration
and last congress and then the new
administration the new congress like
doubled down and made it worse but it’s
not like it just started like at the end
of january of this year and that’s sort
of an inconvenient truth for people and
the media is obviously very polarized um
by it as well i keep saying like i would
have called this trump’s war on small
business or bidens were a small business
that like many more people would be
talking about but nobody nobody wants to
hear that this is a systemic problem
um and unfortunately i’m just a truth
teller and that’s just that’s the
reality of the situation and that’s the
but it’s not sexy and it doesn’t work in
sort of a polarized sort of fantastical
click-bait media situation so anything
that is a systemic issue
with people who are part of the problem
becomes very difficult um to talk about
and which is why you know the just like
decentralized small businesses are
incredibly important to the economy and
decentralized jobs via the gig economy
are incredibly important to jobs and you
know decentralized finance is important
to fight back against the fed
same thing with decentralized media what
you’re doing here right now spike and
and all the people who are doing sort of
these individual decentralized uh media
plays in different formats that is a
pushback against the corporate press
yeah there’s two i think there’s two
main things it’s like you said
there’s this idea that if something is
bipartisan that means it’s great it’s a
great thing if both both sides of the
entire political spectrum because
obviously there’s nothing but
republicans and democrats if both sides
agree then that means that it’s gospel
it’s it is it is the best thing despite
all evidence to the contrary that you
the more they agree the more likely it
is to be a giant screw job to the vast
majority of people on this planet uh you
know it probably results in mass murder
somewhere uh but it’s bipartisan um but
i also have to think that you know
most media is controlled by the jews no
most media is controlled by seven
by the way just to throw that out there
yes no absolutely it’s controlled by the
weather south the jews have it out for
southwest that’s why only southwest
everyone’s like how could it be that
only southwest was affected by weather
and i’m like you don’t want to answer it
with the obvious answer anyway so i
think that the i think that the problem
is that you have most of these media
companies are owned by like six or seven
companies and you know and those are the
big companies that are making all this
money so it’s sort of a you know it’s
sort of a a a self-protecting system
which is again why you know
my the the the i guess the
the mantra of libertarianism not not
that you’re one but the mantra of
libertarians and libertarian adjacent
people such as yourself who quote harry
brown and rothbard um are uh is is that
we need to decentralize decentralization
is not just more responsive it’s not
just more efficient it’s not just more
serving of of you know people with
individual needs but it’s the most
ethical to for me to say you should have
your power and your freedom and your
money to be able to do what you want i
should be able to have the same for
myself we should be able to accumulate
wealth and power based on what we’re
providing to the market the value that
we have and nothing else there should
not be any coercion it should only be
you know cooperation and and so forth so
kind of wrapping things up what are the
things that we can do and i guess on two
fronts on the political front and on the
market front what can we do to you know
fight what’s happening in government uh
what would you say are like the top one
or two things we should be doing and
then what how can we best as individual
consumers help uh and as well yeah as
individual consumers help with small
yeah i think the the political front
question is one that i consistently
grapple with and seek great answers for
because there are so many people who
want to do things and they you know they
feel very helpless about it so i i don’t
prefer to have the full answers here but
you know small things that you know end
up adding up is that you even though
you’re somebody who wants to be left
alone unfortunately fighting for freedom
and individual rights and that
protection of it
requires ongoing attention and so you
know getting
not through coercion but just asking
nicely people that you know that have
similar outlooks or other small business
who share some of the same ideas to get
something really specific uh whether
it’s raining in the fed or small
business legislation or whatnot i always
think like having one practical small
thing to ask for and then doing the next
one the next one works better than kind
of going macro and not really having
direction but right call like pick up
the phone i know everyone likes to email
and text
like nobody calls anymore and if you
have like 50 people who all called a
representative at one point in time like
they would flip out they wouldn’t know
what to do because nobody does it
anymore so all of a sudden it seems like
oh this is a big thing that’s picking up
steam kind of like when twitter trends a
topic that has like 300 people talking
about it and you’re like why is this
important because they said it was
important appear as important and then
self-fulfilling it becomes important so
i think that you know that’s
i mean certainly the fed um you know
everything kind of starts and ends with
it’s just the sort of the way it is
um and then you know i’m a big fan of
the whole concept of breaking up the
duopoly i mean using the whole idea of
anti-trust against the government and
the two-party system and obviously i
think this fits in well uh with
libertarians i mean the fact that um
because of the duopoly
libertarians aren’t invited to speak in
debates and we only have
a very limited set of choices i would be
pushing more around that on the
political front so those are just a
couple things we’d love to get your
feedback as well um but on the
commercial side i mean this is where you
you have a ton of power um
because you get a vote with your dollars
and that’s what capitalism is and your
people are not always sort of
intentional and thoughtful one of the
things that i’ve done with my book is
you know again i’m a capitalist so you
can buy it wherever is convenient for
you and good value for you but i’ve been
pushing people to go buy it from local
bookstores or through bookshop.org
which is an online service that fulfills
through local bookstores because it
would be ridiculous of me to sit here
and talk to you about you know how
you’ve got this big business big
government big special just trying to
operate and go and you can buy my book
on amazon.com um
which is what i did when i gave the link
to it uh uh in the original promo i i i
did the amazon link so i just got the
that’s our like default
action that’s what we do but i think
it’s important like you know if you’ve
got the holidays coming up which by the
way if you haven’t started holiday
shopping like do it now because they’re
going to do it
come december but consider
purchasing your gifts from small
business owners like when you’re going
to a restaurant like think about doing
something in your local neighborhood and
again sometimes it’s just a reflex it’s
just like i haven’t thought about i just
don’t want to think about things but
that when a bunch of people don’t think
about things then everybody ends up
shopping in amazon and the the entire
economy becomes consolidated in the
hands of a couple companies and i don’t
think anybody wants to see that happen
so that was that was her telling me you
schmuck why would you do the amazon link
so i’m literally changing that right now
i uh
let me let me ask you because i think
it’s important you know is there
anything else politically that you know
i should be adding to my messaging and
and telling people who basically feel
helpless hey i i believe in all these
things like you and i are simpatico like
how do i affect change like what what is
your advice on that
so i am a big fan of like you said
calling people calling representatives
uh justin mosh is a friend of mine he
was a he was a congressman up until uh
this year and um he was in there for 10
years and he said you would be shocked
at how few phone calls it takes for uh
people in congress to go this is a big
deal especially if they’re coming from a
bunch of different places
if you know five people in this
constituency are calling this person and
five people are calling this person five
people you know five ten people are
calling all of a sudden they’re getting
together and going this soon this is a
big deal i think i think we need to get
ahead of this now obviously if a hundred
people call congress and say end the fed
that doesn’t necessarily end the fed but
you could maybe get the pro act killed
you could maybe get the cares act or or
whatever the the infrastructure bill
greatly hobbled
by some on the fence senators who go i’m
not voting for this i don’t think i’ll
get reelected if i do uh so you can
definitely at least help you know put
put some gum in the works if if the
machine is basically you know working
towards making everything worse you can
at least put some gum in the machine put
through a couple wrenches in there at
the federal level there’s a lot more
that can be done at the state level um
you know i i’ve seen a handful of people
go to a state legislature and you get
stuff unanimously passed and i think
there’s a lot of stuff that can be done
at the state and local level to get rid
of onerous uh occupational licensing
laws uh civil asset forfeiture which is
routinely used against entrepreneurs who
don’t look like they should have that
much money
that kind of stuff uh can greatly help
something as simple as saying that
someone who has a criminal record uh is
should be allowed once they’ve done
their time to be able to get a business
license you know basic stuff where you
know people that are the most in need of
being able to to work their way up the
corporate la of the up the economic
ladder uh should be able to do so with
as little infringements as possible but
i think yeah i think as individual
consumers best thing we can do is to not
do what i did and i’m literally fixing
it right now uh is is
i’m gonna change this now i’m literally
gonna delete it uh
where and there were even people are
like why amazon and i’m like because
that’s where i found it so you
answering your question the reason why
why i went to amazon was i put in your
book for sale like like the the war on
small business carol roth for sale first
thing that comes up
amazon audible you know all the main
things i don’t think i even saw bookshop
here’s where you can purchase
carol’s book sorry
um and now that’s on there correctly uh
but it happens you know and and you know
we’re so used to doing stuff on amazon
it just it just happens but here’s how
we can actually help so uh first of all
carol i just want to thank you for
coming on uh this has been an incredible
episode before i let you go i want to
give you a chance to give any final
thoughts anything that you thought you
didn’t get a chance to say
anything that you would like to you know
uh uh
any teasers from your book i get the
graphic here your book the war on small
bit anything that you want to promote
that’s coming up anything you want to
say for as long as you want to say it
carol roth
of schneiderman electric the floor is
oh thank you uh i just i want to
appreciate my appreciation not only to
you spike but to the folks who connected
us i know that eskimo libertarian was
one so thank you for the idea and i
think that’s the magic it’s as bad of a
place as twitter can be sometime i mean
how amazing is that i said whose podcast
should i go on they throw your name i’m
like okay great if he reaches out you
reach out and then as i said
24 hours we’re having a conversation um
the fact that that can happen is
tremendous and just shows the power of
again a decentralized media so thanks
for the idea eskimo libertarian and
others who have probably in the giant
thread um
for taking the time to reach out and
everybody who’s been sitting here and
listening um if you are a small business
owner i will tell you you did build that
you are the backbone of the economy and
you know we should be incredibly
grateful to you for all your
contributions i know that i certainly am
um and if there’s anything i can never
do to be helpful don’t hesitate to reach
out i’ve got a contact form at
carollroth.com i’m trying to help as
much as i can and i’m on twitter at
carol j s roth so ping me and i’ll try
to help and just appreciate the
opportunity to um share some thoughts
with like-minded folks who i’m not in a
party with um but just happen to have
fun of the same ideas
i don’t like people
and then most importantly um it is
opening night the the first uh first
game of the hockey season for the
chicago blackhawks who are playing away
at the colorado avalanche tonight so i
want to say go blackhawks and um you
know hopefully we’ll have a good year
because i can’t take another crappy
hockey year again it’s been it’s been
too much
and um yeah hopefully we’ll continue the
dialogue i had a lot of fun
i did too thank you carol stick around
we’re going to talk during the outro uh
folks uh the book again the war on small
business how the government used the
pandemic to crush the backbone of
america uh by carol roth you can also go
to carolroth.com you can go to the
bookshop.org link that is in the
comments or on the show notes if you are
listening to this as a podcast um and uh
you know
one day when carol discovers uh when one
of us can discover what her political
beliefs are best described as then we
can help her with that so if any of you
hear this you can put in the comments
what you think it sounds like maybe we
can help her find a political party
other than the one she’s been voting for
for the last like 10 years um but carol
thank you so much again for coming on i
really really appreciate it
my pleasure
and folks thank you for tuning in to
this amazing episode of my fellow
americans why is it amazing because
you’re here
well also because carol was here but
it’s uh it was an amazing episode uh be
sure to tune in tomorrow on thursday at
8 pm for the writer’s block where my
co-host matt wright is going to be
interviewing uh anna oh man i forgot her
name i forgot her last name she’s the
chair of the libertarian party of
washington and her name is anna
johnson i
thought it was john anna johnson she is
the chair of the libertarian party of
washington she’s gonna be mad at me
because i’m gonna see her on friday when
i fly out to washington state for the
weekend come join me uh friday in
seattle saturday in um in the tri-cities
area and sunday in spokane if you go to
lp let me put that in the notes lpwa.org
slash mass non-compliance let me spell
it right this time so you don’t get a
404 error uh and if you come out you see
all the events that i’m going to be
doing i’m doing like seven different
events over the weekend come out and see
me if you live in washington state also
uh on friday at 8 30 eastern join uh
noel and nolik right here for cajun and
eskimo from bayou to igloo then on
monday at 8 00 pm uh join jason lyon for
mr america the bearded truth uh his
guest is going to be jessica etheridge
they’re going to talk about the
difference between feminism and
empowering women i think
yes and then join us uh tuesday at 8 p.m
for another fantastic episode of the
muddy waters of freedom where matt
wright and i parse through the week’s
events like the sweet little little
little winter boys that we are and then
join me right back here wednesday same
spike place same spike time for another
amazing episode of my fellow americans
folks thanks so much for tuning in i’m
spike cohen and you
are the power god bless guys
slightly slightly like-minded indeed the
life i’ve lived brings light to kindness
all you need is a sign
put a cease to the crimes put an ease of
the minds like mine
sometimes darkness is all i find you
know what they say
losing five don’t tell me how tell me
a change
will make

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