Mr Bearded Truth – 9 – Selling liberty with Duane Lester

“If you can’t sell Freedom, you suck” with Duane Lester. Come learn why and how to sell liberty, our future depends on it!
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Episode Transcript

This episode transcript is auto-generated and a provided as a service to the hearing impaired. We apologize for any errors or inaccuracies.

hello everybody welcome in
so glad you’re here
to another wonderful monday night with
me of course mr merc of the bearded
thank you guys all so much for taking
the time out of your week to hop in here
and join me your neighborhood friendly
libertarian where i talk about politics
and social issues one issue at a time
tonight i’ve got an amazing guest with
me coming on uh his name is dwayne
lester he uh recently was speaking out
at cpac and uh just oh sorry at y’all
con and
just was a tremendous i mean he brings
on the down the roof every time he
speaks i mean this guy i can’t speak
highly enough of him so i’m so excited
to have him coming on tonight but of
course before we get into that i gotta
say thank you of course the muddy waters
of freedom
and the muddy waters team as a whole for
giving me an opportunity to come out
here and talk about my
uh my opinions my views and everything
else as well as of course my my guests
being able to to have a platform like
this and be able to talk about this to
talk about these ideas of libertarianism
bringing growth and prosperity to the
future to the masses to everyone and not
have it be for just one select group is
is of course the the ideal situation
that’s what we’re all pursuing here and
so we’re working in that efforts and uh
so big shout out to everyone and looking
so forward
uh looking so forward to to the
discussion we’re about to have and so
without further ado i want to bring on
the good man himself dwayne lester
welcome in well i hope i can live up to
the hype man
live from northwest missouri now fully
loaded with imposter syndrome thank you
for that yes yes we love we use imposter
syndrome quite frequently in the back
channel so uh so it’s good that i don’t
i don’t actually read these books these
are crops
they’re all just empty and they’ve got
but um so big news coming from from
duane uh he is now the he’s got 109
children um more specifically just nine
children uh so those bags under his eyes
is not from from having his ninth son
this last week but actually from having
eight kids prior to that
the man doesn’t sleep my fifth son by
the way but yeah nine kids i had them
all here this weekend it was pretty
how what is the food bill like
when you have nine kids that’s a great
question because i i asked my wife this
one time and i’m about to blow your mind
because when i was blogging
uh when i was when i was blogging
full-time on state issues uh i looked at
the fact that we probably qualified for
food stamps at the time and i wanted to
know how much we would get
if we were on food stamps versus how
much we were actually spending because i
wanted i figured there’s probably some
disparity here i’d probably get more on
food stamps than i would um you know
just paying for it and i was curious so
i went to my wife and i said how much do
we spend a month on food
and when you have that let me know i’m
going to go up and do the stuff and
apply for
whatever food stamps and see how much
we’d get so i went up there and was
doing the stuff in my office and i found
out that we get like a thousand dollars
or something just for food from food
stamps i blew my mind i was like i could
have bacon for every stinking meal and
then cook bacon to throw bacon away it
would be
so so the wife comes in i said so what’d
you say she said we spend
a month about 150
and i said no wait
i said a month not a week she said no
that’s that’s about right a month and i
said you’re going to have to break this
down for me and she said she said well
you have to remember uh
last year in deer season
we were once again asked if we wanted
any deer and we said yes and so they
brought three deer by and so we’ve got
hundreds of pounds of deer meat in the
freezer and then we get most of our
vegetables from our gardens and she’s
got i’m not kidding you at one point we
had a 4 000 square foot garden that she
gardened yeah it was it was sick
and so most of the time all we buy is
condiments and and spices and we get
that from the bulk food store that the
mennonites are on so it’s about 150 a
month so that’s what my food bill is oh
holy smokes i see this was not this was
not like framed of being like hey you
don’t talk about food but this yeah this
is what happens when you when you
literally speak and you bring down the
in your communities people just come and
bring you food so so you can feed your
entire almost your entire football team
now i have a baseball team now yeah you
got a baseball team so so we gotta get
to the better american sport um
but but uh from the comment section um
sean hickman says from my ocd says he
needs to have a tenth um
and i i made the joke to him before and
i was like man that thing still works
he’s like well you know we’ll see if it
still does uh so give me a second
150 a month i was just thinking we spend
about so i’ve got two daughters i’ve got
a two-year-old who eats 150 in cheez-its
each week and then i’ve got a
12-year-old and between me eating steaks
as much as possible like
that’s that’s truly just mind-blowing
and well i can tell you that was when we
were that was when i was a full-time
blogger making absolutely no money
living on donations that i could get
from the kind people of missouri who
supported my work now uh i’m sure our
food bills are much higher and i don’t
think i want to know what it is because
my wife said to me today what do you
want for lunch uh and remember all my
kids are here and she says i got enough
steaks for everybody to have a steak and
i’m like
you still say what now
you’re gonna give everybody a steak i
don’t think so i only get one steak a
meal she’s like you only need one steak
a meal i said but i could have two
couldn’t i cause apparently we have
steaks galore we have a surplus of
steaks yeah
they’ll be limited my rations on these
steaks they’ll be handed those away to
the kids we love them but not that much
i don’t even that one doesn’t even like
steaks i’m not sure it’s mine
that’s amazing i i love that um
man i i had like so many jokes but i i
i’m just my mind is now blown on this
and and
i don’t even know a good segue from this
to to move into
why i i was so excited to bring you on
but it’s
no no there’s just no segway for that i
i came to you and and many people have
heard this when i talk to people and i
say you know i want to have this person
on and there’s always a reason why i
want to have this person on um
and for you the circumstance was a
little bit different so last last
episode that we had we had a cage or not
cajun uh chris darnell who’s
cajun because i don’t want him to get
all spicy about my beard that that is
well i mean you are the the second best
bearded person on muddy waters media
right now i mean look at that luscious
beard is full coming in right there i
don’t know if you can see it but i can
feel it
i think he’s still in the comments
section so he’s definitely definitely
going to be pretty bitter about that one
but it’s fine um
it’s spicy he just said um
when when i have people come on
oftentimes i say you know i want to have
you on to talk about this i had bootleg
libertarian come on and and his big
thing is talk about the second amendment
talking about guns and freedom and when
i came to you i was like i have the
world in front of you
pick something like what is it that you
how can you make the biggest impact how
can you drive liberty how can you change
liberty he’s like you were just like
that i can do that
i i thought that that was
that’s something that we all need to
hear right because oftentimes when you
hear libertarian podcasts when you hear
people when they talk about current
events or they’re talking about such as
what we’re doing here of trying to have
more timeless
but talking about about events
we don’t talk about how we actually
influence the society around us and and
i think looking at your
resume um
looking at everything that you’ve done
everything that i’ve been made aware of
at least you accomplish this
in your nine to five you accomplish this
with your nine children
running around and spreading freedom you
you accomplish this by creating leaders
in everywhere that you go and a good
leader has that open mind to allow for
other people and and i think that the
leadership is is what the the freedom
movement is about and and so um
if if if you’re up for it i would love
to hear kind of why you’re the
authoritarian or not the authoritarian
but the authority authority on to this
what do you think
you do have on the fantastic shirt which
uh which i didn’t plug the local
libertarian um where where did that come
from first of all before we hop into
why you’re the authority on it i don’t
even remember i just remember saying hi
i’m dwayne you’re a local libertarian
because i’m in a town of like 1500
people and i think i’m i thought i was
the only one here since i’ve started
saying that i’ve discovered there’s more
and more around me who hate the
government almost as much as i do
not quite though uh but i just started
saying hi i’m dwayne your local
libertarian and then i thought that’s
not a bad brand i think i wouldn’t mind
putting that on a t-shirt and so i did
and then i thought you know what if i
were to have
like a local libertarian t-shirt and
then i could have like a local status
which is right over there and then i
said but i need a government and then i
started thinking up all these goopy
skits that i could do and then the next
thing i know i’m on tick tock doing
skits and it’s it’s funny it’s i think
it’s funny anyway
so so you’re making skits and you’re
putting them up on on the toxic vile
community of of tick tock
yeah crazy china government conspiracy
where can people find you
oh it’s just at dwayne lester at dwayne
buster really really difficult brand i
came up with there
yeah no and and i will say that i
started following you as soon as you
started making it you made one post on
facebook and i was like well i’ma follow
it and i i had my own little side gig
from here and i was like i’m gonna
follow it i can’t throw your likes just
because i don’t want to get into that
and then i realized what the hell am i
doing like this dude’s funny he needs
his likes he needs his love he needs his
support and
i mean you have a prop next to you
just it it
the skits you have with these things
it is one of those things that is
planting seeds
knowing you wouldn’t knowing you
wouldn’t follow me that was a hard to
swallow pill
these tick tocks are just so perfect and
the way that it’s
i i don’t want to break it i i don’t
want you guys got to go follow dwayne
lester on tick tock go download tick
tock go create an account on tick tock
go follow at dwayne lester um his name
is there in the title of all the videos
on youtube on facebook on on float on
twitch on twitter everywhere that this
video is streaming out live right now
you guys have that in front of you if
you guys are listening to this later on
as you’re on the go and the podcast um
of course any of your favorite podcast
apps we’re on it
um it’s there in the name as well so
find dwayne lester on tick tock give
this man a follow and if you don’t laugh
at his videos or or realize the seeds
that he is planting
by having these conversations i mean the
the gun the oh man the gun infringement
won that was the one that will always
stand out to me it was i think that was
what your first or your second hard to
swallow pill i know that was the first
one with the wake-up call that was the
wake-up call yeah there’s a there’s a
skit we do where i had i actually
i was on a trip and i said i’m going to
film this part here and then i went
downstairs to the lobby and had to take
photos of like the front desk of the
hotel so i could use that as a green
screen later and there’s nothing
more satisfying as a nearly 50 year old
man to have people staring at you while
you’re taking photos for your tick tock
later there’s no she’s like yes i’m a
walking man child thank you
as you got probably girls in the
background that are like 20 21 years old
that are twerking for their tick tocks
and they don’t get a second look but you
the 50 year old what are you doing guys
you do it old man
you’re not supposed to be on tick tock
you’re too old
uh so question from the comment is
dwayne lester is he a comedian uh he
will have your your sides be split uh he
um i’ve i
probably the first big interaction i had
with dwayne
uh we were we were
just cracking jokes back and forth and
it made the event that we were at
which is typically a pretty unbearable
event it made the time fly by
i think i got called on uh one of us got
called on uh to speak during it like we
we both were were too deep into our
jokes and so it was like a random random
response but
no he’s not a comedian uh he will make
you laugh he’ll make you enjoy
everything but he is a man that can sell
you freedom he can sell you
the tools
he can equip you with them and he can
make you
change society around you and that’s
actually the purpose of tonight go ahead
i don’t think that i’m not afraid to say
that i’m a full-time trainer i’m i mean
i’m a professional trainer that’s what i
do is i i work with people and if you
talk to some trainers they will say
we’re not trainers you can’t call
yourself a trainer dwayne you’re you’re
a performance development consultant and
i’m like yeah okay well i train people
that’s what i do i take people and i
teach them hopefully a few things that
they go out and apply for example um
just recently i was teaching a group of
people and i was trying to explain to
them that politicians by and large are
very vain egotistical self-centered
people and if you write their name in a
letter to the editor they’ll find out
about it and they’ll care
this person took that advice wrote a
letter to the editor sent me an email
and says hey guess what i have an i have
a meeting with the superintendent of my
schools next week because i wrote a
letter to the editor so that’s what i do
is i teach people how to do things and
then hopefully they go do them and they
make a difference in their in their
it’s not just it’s just not the us
representatives it’s not just u.s
congress it’s not just yours your state
representatives this is literally at
every level that dwayne can equip you to
make a difference to get your voice
heard and to actually apply good
principles good philosophies in order to
make a difference that’s why i had to
have dwayne on that’s why when i when he
sold me on this i was like there’s
there’s no one better i i gotta have him
uh brentwriter if you’re listening to
this i i still love you too
you know
there was a quote from andrew breitbart
and regardless of how you feel about the
man the guy got attention and he made a
difference but one of the things he said
was if you can’t sell freedom you suck
and that is something that i never
forgot and what i’ve learned since then
is a lot of people think that
that just telling everybody what they
think and why the other person is wrong
is selling freedom and that’s not at all
not at all what it’s about
believe it or not i do read some of
these books and some of these books have
enlightened me on how to do this um i
can keep going if you want and i don’t
want to pull those over your questions
run through it
one of the things that that i’ve learned
just in training and this applies to
sales because
i’ve tried to explain to people all the
time what we’re doing when we are
working in politics is it’s a sales gig
we are trying to sell what we’re trying
to sell our ideas we’re trying to sell
the concept of freedom we’re trying to
sell different principles that we find
and one thing that that crosses over
that from training is that people don’t
argue with their own data
people do not argue with their own data
i can sit and tell you all these
principles and that you find should find
important that i find important these
principles are important to the society
they don’t care because it’s me telling
but if they say these things are
important then i can work with that so
this kind of culminated what what really
blew my mind with this and where i first
started applying it
was when i was training
a very libertarian point of view to
traditionally very
republican conservative audiences and
what i would find is when i get into
these these trainings
because i was simply telling them i was
saying this is what
you should believe i they would they
would argue with me
even though
a lot of these principles they
would probably tell you otherwise they
believed in once you started applying
they they didn’t like that
and so i changed i changed the way i
started doing this and this comes from
another book that i read when i was
like 1920 21 maybe
you can laugh at me if you want anthony
robbins awaken the giant within
self-help book in that book he says
questions are the answer and he was
applying it to the idea that the
questions you ask yourself will be how
you move forward but i think about that
in that the questions you ask other
that’s going to help you make the sale
question you’ve got to find out what
they think
or you’ve got to get them to identify
their own positions and that’s what i
was doing when i started this so every
time i’d go in to train this very
point of view
i would start by saying i want to get us
all on the same page because there may
be conversations we have later that we
don’t agree with each other on and times
this has gotten contentious so let’s
start on the same page
i want to ask you four questions the
first question is where does a just
government get its power
and the important word here
is just yeah a just government and they
would say
almost always the people and i would say
a just government gets its power from
the people i don’t disagree with that
can a person give away something they
don’t have
no you can’t give something away you
don’t have does that include
power does that include
authority you can’t give it away an
authority you don’t have can you no no i
mean i can’t say jason’s house is open
we can all go spend the night
i don’t have that authority
i can say that but that doesn’t mean
that that would make it unjust yeah you
see what i’m saying so no you can’t give
away something you don’t have and so
then i would pull down uh
this book right here which if you
haven’t read
frederick bastiat
yep i’ve got i think six copies of it up
there that i just keep giving away
and i would say well you know bastia
said that you’re right a just government
gets its power from the people and
people can’t give away that which they
don’t have so therefore a just
government should only have the
authority that we as individuals have
and the only time we as individuals can
use violence or force is in defense of
rights either our own or someone else’s
so doesn’t it follow then
that a just government should only have
the power to secure and defend the
the people
perfect okay we’re all on the same page
then i would say does a majority vote
make something wrong something right
and this is traditionally the most
aggressive no i ever get no no no way
you’re right no a majority vote doesn’t
mean something that’s wrong is suddenly
right that includes a lot of things just
you vote for someone else to go do
something that would be wrong for you to
do doesn’t mean that that person doing
it is now just or justified it’s still
immoral it’s still wrong isn’t it yes
yes it is
great final question who owns you
does the government have any claim on
your person
does the government have any authority
or ownership of you or do you own
yourself we own us
i remember asking asking and getting the
answers to these four questions which we
all gave no i own myself no one owns me
and i looked at this group
and i said look at all you
rabid libertarians
they just looked at me like i’d
they’d caught me doing something
unnatural to their housepet
but from there on again they’re not
going to be arguing with me at this
point yeah
later on when i’d say well when you
think about this
we legalize everything
doesn’t that fit with what we talked
about before well we shouldn’t legalize
drugs i said well you said earlier
that the government doesn’t own you
right so how does the government have
any authority to tell you what you can
put in your body well
you literally have changed the
perspective of people with four
questions and not even
not giving them answers but letting them
come to these con
i said at this point i’m you’re not
arguing with me
i’ve lost kind of how many people i’ve
looked at so you’re not arguing with me
you’ve got to figure this out for
yourself you’re arguing with yourself at
this point
because you said earlier that government
can’t do any a just government can’t do
anything that you can’t do well can i
use a gun
to keep you from taking a drug
that’s not going to hurt anybody
i can’t do that can i so how can
government do that
well uh well they voted for well
you know
it doesn’t make something wrong
something right you said that earlier
too just because we all voted for it
doesn’t mean it’s right
i said nine out of ten people involved
in a gang rape are pro-gang rape that
doesn’t make gang rape just or moral
but that’s
a majority vote
that’s just mob rule
yeah and so
again i don’t know how many people have
changed their minds
but they have to argue with their own
data they’re not arguing with me
and it’s important to recognize
i mean i had i had this i’ll tell you
this other story this was great i was
doing this in in indiana i had the same
the same training i was giving very
libertarian stance
and i’d gone through these four
questions and there’s a fifth question
that i’ll often ask
in trainings when i’m dealing with
concepts that the audience might not be
prepared for and that question is what
if the government didn’t do that
and i remember i asked this group what
if government didn’t do that
and they all looked at me and they’re
didn’t do what dwayne i said name it
what if they didn’t do anything what if
they didn’t do
yeah and somebody in the back yelled
education i said perfect let’s talk
about education what if government
didn’t do education what if tomorrow
the governor of uh indiana came out and
said from this second forward
not one red cent will come out of
taxpayer funds to go towards education
there is no role
for government in education
this is something that will be handled
by the private sector and individuals
from this point on
government is out of education what
would happen at that point would parents
around the state just go
i guess my kid’s going to be stupid yeah
i mean
covid to put that into perspective covet
has shown that parents were like
look the schools are making terrible
decisions and now we have a mass exodus
of parents moving into public schools or
into homeschooling or into other
they’re leaving
public school but here’s the power of
asking that question
i didn’t tell them
if government stops doing that this this
this this and this will happen
i said what if government doesn’t do
that what happens then
and then they started firing off answers
well churches would do something us yeah
what would churches do well they could
come together and they could you know
take care of the kids who go to that
church yeah what else
well they could they could recruit other
kids who you know might not and then
maybe church attendance starts going up
yeah wow think about that it ripples out
doesn’t it what else would happen well
parents could form and they sat there
and gave all of these answers and i i
just sat back like lard ass from stand
by me
like look what i did
but they figured it all out i didn’t
have to sell
you know i didn’t have to sell it to
them people don’t argue with their own
and so all i did was ask the right
what if government didn’t do that and
i’m actually thinking about getting that
put on a t-shirt
because i like that question what if
government didn’t do that
and they figured it out themselves now
there was a lady in the room who could
get past the fact that if government
didn’t do education
that kids wouldn’t get educated and her
concern was that there would be kids
who’d fall through the gaps they’re just
they’re kids who fall through the cracks
and i i wouldn’t say
i wouldn’t say well there are kids doing
that now i would say well are any kids
falling through the cracks now
well yeah yeah there are okay so nothing
really changes then is that what you’re
well the i’m being teachers wouldn’t be
around to see if the kids got abused i
said are kids getting abused now by
well yes
okay so there’s still not much shame
there’s something i read from thomas
soul the thomas soul section is down
there that’s why i keep looking down i’m
look i keep referencing books like over
here in the library
the thomas soul section is down there
but something thomas soul said
changed my perspective on things and it
has changed how i how i teach these
concepts too
and that is a simple quote where he said
there are no solutions
there are only trade-offs yep
and i sat there and i don’t know how
many times i read that i thought that is
so simple and yet so profound and when i
get to those situations
i would say to this person there are no
solutions to this
there are only trade-offs to this and
our mission is to find the least
aggressive the least violent the least
the least liberty attacking the most
solution to this and then find solutions
or find ways to deal with the trade-offs
that come from that
yeah and but a lot of it is just asking
questions and that goes back to and i
feel like i’m just talking and talking
talking but no here’s what i do i talk
for a living so i’m sorry might as well
just take the rest of the night off but
i forgot where i was going with that but
yeah just asking questions because it
goes back to
uh sell me this pen i don’t know if
you’ve seen wolf of wall street i have
not seen wolf on wall street michael
cicio has seen it enough for all of us
and he will tell me about it over and
over and over again but there’s a scene
in there where he says sell me this pen
that is the worst question that anyone
can ask you just sell this random thing
continue yeah some of these pin and most
people will take the pin be like let me
tell you about this pen this pen is the
most awesome pan it writes upside down
you take this pen you’ll never
totally the wrong way to go
i don’t even know if you need a pen
the thing is to start asking questions
and when you can ask questions
you start understanding what’s important
to this person
yeah there’s another training principle
that i try to follow that i preach to
other people
we say that there are two radio stations
that p people in training listen to
there’s we fm
that’s what’s in it for me that’s a
question you always have to ask for the
participants in there i if i can tell
you what’s in this training for you
you’ll be more likely to listen to it
because you’ll sit there and say oh well
i i want this because it’s important to
me another one is uh
make me
make me feel important about myself
and if you can do that
then you’ll have people listening to you
there’s a great story uh about benjamin
disraeli when he was running for prime
minister of great britain he was at this
event with his
the person he was running against and
both of them were slated to sit with
different times with this particular
woman and at the end of the night
the press went up to this woman and they
said so tell me what you think about and
i forget you know the name tell me what
you thought about mr line oh well you
know when i sat with him i felt like he
was the most
interesting person in all of great
britain well what did you think about mr
disraeli oh well when i sat with him i
felt like i was the most interesting
person in all of great britain and
that’s charisma because he would sit
there and ask questions and find out
more about her and made it all about her
and when you can sit with someone
and you spend time finding out about
people will want to sit with you because
you’ve made them feel important about
themselves but another thing you’re
doing at the same time
is you’re finding out what they value
what’s important to them
and when you can find out what’s
important to them you you can create
what’s called a shared vision this comes
from a book called the fifth discipline
which was another one of those books
that i read and i thought this is this
changes my whole perspective because i
would think about something called a
shared vision and when i was training
there was a vision i had to train people
on and my thought was okay i know the
you don’t know the vision i’m going to
come and train on this vision
now we have a shared vision
and this book had something completely
different and what it said was
i’ve got oh sorry about that
my hands a lot sorry uh i’ve got a
you’ve got a vision
i need to find out what your vision is
i need to find out what’s important to
and then i need to connect your vision
to our vision
so that you can see
that by working towards our vision we’re
also accomplishing your vision
yeah and that creates the shared vision
so when you can do that
then you’re going to get people to come
and want to be a part of what you’re
doing because by helping you
they’re helping themselves and there’s
this thing called self-interest that
motivates a lot of people and by a lot i
mean most if not all yeah and i think
with that like so
when we are
as individuals and the liberty movement
or whatever movement we’re really a part
of because i mean this is this is not
just tied to the liberty liberty
movement itself but when we’re
like for me like criminal justice reform
is my big thing right so if i find
somebody who appears to be
for whatever is giving me that context
they may be interested in the criminal
justice system i don’t just go up to
them and start
throwing everything i know about the
criminal justice system at them and and
try to get them to to see my side but
using the practice or the tools that
you’re talking about you know ask them
be like hey you know
i think a better example that i could
use is if you find somebody with nine
you can
what’s good
yeah probably a weirdo probably has a
huge library of books behind them but um
but by seeing somebody with nine
kids a question that i instantly would
go to is does this person care about
health care does this person care about
education um and and asking questions
about that i can figure out you know
what their views are what their stance
is and and find out if it’s somebody
that we can we can align with to work
together to to help make a difference um
for that shared vision of look you know
you’ve got all these kids these kids are
incredibly important
what’s in it for you is let’s work to
make your the education system actually
work for all all nine of your kids
because let’s face it if you had to
homeschool all nine children i
that’s that’s gonna be a difficult
process i granted you could throw them
you could throw them plenty of books and
just say read
they’re all homeschooled they’re all
homeschooled it’s how difficult is that
how much time does that take in a week
jason i travel for a living so let me
get the wife up here yes exactly
is she like you stay home a wife or yeah
yeah she stays at home she homeschools
them all and it’s it isn’t that
yeah what you gotta understand is and
this is something that blows people’s
minds too yeah i try to explain this to
people once you get past three kids it’s
all the same because the older kids
become more capable of helping the
younger kids and that goes along with
education too it makes sense so you
might have a kid who’s struggling with
with something that another kid has
mastered you can say anna would you go
over and help jeremiah with with his
spelling well i do this over here with
silas and matthew could you help
whatever willow with this and the
football team to its use i like it yeah
you believe it or not we believe in
leveraging comparative advantages that’s
what so that’s a that’s a term that i
like to use and i think that you’d be
the best one to define that what what is
a comparative advantage for for the for
the audience that may have never heard
that economic term before when i think
of comparative advantages i think you
have to look at the opportunity cost so
an opportunity cost is something you
have to give up in order to do something
else so doing this interview with you
what am i giving up i’m giving up a hot
dinner downstairs which i’m told is just
leftovers so not that high a cost i can
get those whenever i’m giving up time
with my kids that i won’t give back
that’s fine i’m i’m i love you and i
love your audience so it’s this we’re
family here too right these are the
things i’m giving up these are the costs
associated with this particular activity
so a comparative advantage is what can i
that has the lowest opportunity cost
compared to anyone else
and that’s it when you can leverage that
then you’re going to be creating the
most value and here’s the thing we all
have a comparative advantage and
sometimes that comparative advantage
shifts from time to time so you might
have a ceo of an organization and
there’s a crisis in the organization and
he’s or she has done everything they can
and so when they get to the office and
everybody’s in full crisis mode their
comparative advantage might be
what refreshments does this group need
can i go get
sodas can i go get
you know what beer or whatever can i go
get lunch that might be their
comparative advantage because everyone
else is handling their business your
business is done what can you do to
create value at that time
i’ll take arona if you’re if you’re
serving them no
no okay this is uh strictly a uh a blue
moon household or
a uh maker’s mark depending
i can’t do makers mark can’t do it i do
have normally normally the audience can
see it but i do have a very special
bottle of backbone bourbon signed by
the 2020 presidential candidate signed
by joe jorgensen herself but uh so that
one will never get drink but are we name
dropping now because i just gave tom
woods a a bottle of jefferson reserve so
oh hey wait wait wait wait wait wait
wait wait wait oh wait i just invited
you onto my show and you didn’t give me
a thomas and jefferson reserve what
makes you think it’s not in your house
or have you talked to your family
i’m liking this
best guest ever just saying um but no um
no that’s a
i can’t believe i i had doubts about the
the homeschooling thing but i think i
think from from being on the outside of
of like most parents when they look at
at the idea of homeschooling they they
think that this is something that takes
a long time because
public school takes a long time
throughout the day right so kids are in
school for seven hours a day then they
come home they do one two three hours of
homework depending on how fast they are
and everything else but
i think also like
so so with that just of of of
identifying people who would be
interested in those certain topics those
are ways that we can use those those
lines of questioning and and be able to
to tell them what’s in it for you to
make them feel important to understand
them as we as we look to try to sell uh
libertarian or whatever ideas you’re
trying to sell but of course for us it
would be the uh the libertarian ideals
let me give you another question
i think is very important you said that
that cjr is your big issue why is that
important to you
uh because i
i’ve seen how i think trying to remember
who the quote was from but the quote uh
was basically talking about how why do
we judge
um the rest of somebody’s life based on
their worst day
um i think that that’s the best way to
encapsulate it where we have a criminal
justice system that is incredibly broken
in every every faucet of how it’s
working whether it’s the laws that have
been created and we know about the
unjust laws
we’ve seen how we have a punitive system
that’s not rehabilitative to where we
have a high recidivism rate because of
that um i i think it’s just there’s just
a lot of gross negligence around that
topic and so what i want to do is i want
the purpose of what a criminal justice
system to make victims whole to um to
have people who have offended or or
infringed upon the rights of others um
to be held accountable to fix those
problems to
make them whole make them human again
and then as they reenter society uh make
sure that everyone’s kind of um you can
trust your neighbor and you don’t have
to live in fear of of
of of that issue
why is all that important to you
because i love freedom and and our
criminal justice system has been
encroaching on that and the pursuance of
of its brokenness
why why is it important that the
criminal justice system then not
infringe on or encroach on more freedom
so the problem has always been is from
my perspective that one
i love being in this hot seat but um
when we look at the way that the
criminal justice system has been used
and and oftentimes when we see people
the quote-unquote status if you will but
if when people use government and their
pursuance of of
what they deem to be wrong right we
talked about the war on drugs a little
bit ago um
that they’re not making the situation
worse or better they’re they’re actually
making it worse they’re making it worse
for for families they’re making it worse
for the individuals caught up in the
system and and and so i want to see
people be able to reach our potential
and and through that the criminal
justice system isn’t hasn’t been
providing it it sounds like what you’re
saying is that the criminal justice
system when it gets outside of of just
making victims whole
and and holding people accountable for
their actions it actually starts doing
more harm than good yes and and keeps
people from living up to their most
potential why is it important that
people reach their most potential
life is hard enough we shouldn’t have
extra barriers in the way of that
all i’ve really done is ask you one
all i’ve done is ask why is that
important and that actually goes back to
something that that’s uh i think it’s
six sigma it’s it’s a
root cause analysis it’s just called the
five whys but i was at another training
with an organization in colorado called
the leadership program of the rockies
and i was auditing it and one of the
speakers kept asking well why is that
important and he by the time he had
asked it five times you had gotten to
the root of why this was important the
whole time all i’m doing is gathering
more and more information about you so
that i know that i know what’s important
to you
and that way i can find what’s important
to you and match up to what our values
are and say you know
we believe a lot of the same things
jason i see government getting outside
of its arena i see government getting
outside its proper role and every time
it does that it diminishes
the other institutions in society
we criminalize things that shouldn’t be
criminalized and that creates more harm
than good and it keeps us from living
our best lives i think i think you and i
agree on a lot of the same things and
there are ways we could work together to
change this was that something that that
you’d want to do
oh with you any day so there you go
that’s basically
selling freedom and the thing about it
is you’re not gonna get that sale the
first time you might not get it the
second time most sales don’t get closed
until the sixth time
uh there’s a great book out there i just
read yesterday actually called us what
is it getting getting to know i think it
is but it talks about the fact that a
lot of times you’ll see sales people and
they’ll have quotas i’ve got to make six
get six yeses this week and by the time
they get to the 60s they’re done they
skate but if you said i want to get 50
no’s this week how many yeses would you
actually get
you might get you know if you’re going
for 20 no’s in a week
you might get 10 yeses probably not but
you’re going to get more yeses because
you’re going for no yeah the fact the
matter is you you may have to talk to
people more than once but if that talk
that you have initially ends with you
screaming at them you’re not a real
libertarian you’re probably not going to
make friends you’re probably not going
to make that sale you’re probably just
going to piss people off
and and then you get what we have today
in a lot of ways yeah no and and i’m
definitely definitely very victim of of
having that confrontation rather than
rather than
putting the best foot forward and and oh
yeah and it’s so easy i i remember
having conversations with my brother
when i first started
first started getting into politics i
mean i i didn’t know a whole lot i’ll be
honest i didn’t care about politics
until i remember uh
a conversation i had in 2000 after the
uss cole bombing and i was talking to
someone at work and they’re like i said
this is this i was in the navy so i’m
like this this pisses me off and he’s
like well you know that’s why you need
to vote for bush because gore will do
this and i’m like i don’t know what
you’re talking about just tell me more
and i didn’t know
but as i’ve grown more and more and more
i’ve come to
have these i don’t even know where i was
going with this at this point i started
thinking about the fact that at one
point in my life i was going to vote for
al gore
and now i’m sad and look what you’ve
oh man
i don’t really don’t know where i was
going with that
um but i do want to i do want to touch
on three other things because it does
come down to those conversations
and what i another thing that i did when
i was talking with you is i use
something called labeling which comes
from a book called never split the
difference by chris voss if you haven’t
read it i highly recommend it but
labeling is just uh
you listen to somebody and then you just
put a label on what they said so what i
said when i labeled was it sounds like
what you think is this jason and you
said yeah yeah and a lot of times you’ll
keep talking after that it sounds like
you really care about criminal justice
the silence drives it yeah yeah silence
will drive a person crazy but if you get
just yep
so there’s labeling and that’s just
it’s just
putting a label on what that person just
if you get yep then there’s another
great phrase that you can use and i use
all the time well tell me more
oh man see i love that
that and that’s and shut up
once you say tell me more shut up
sounds like you really are passionate
about criminal justice reform yep well
tell me more about that
and you we’re just having a conversation
but you want to tell me more right now
yeah right no i’ve i’m like my insides
are like let’s
let’s do another hour you guess i’m
well no because like i said there’s
leftovers downstairs
but um i’ll stay as long as you want i
don’t care i’m fine i’m good but so
you’ve got you’ve got labeling
you’ve got
mirroring and this is something i’ve
actually used when i was when i was
first starting out in podcasting i was i
was you said cpac earlier i was at a
cpac i was i had all my podcasting
equipment set up i was editing an
interview that i’d just done and someone
comes up next to me and says would you
like to interview speaker of the house
newt gingrich and i’m like i had no
plans on interviewing this guy but he’s
standing right there would he no i don’t
talk to you yeah no you sit down he sits
and i start with one question so how are
you enjoying the conference speaker
gingrich starts talking and i just
looked at him and the more he talked
more i listened and then when he stopped
all i did was repeat like the last three
to five words he said and he kept
talking and he kept talking and he kept
and then he stopped talking and i
repeated like the last three to five
words he just said and i just let the
guy talk and it’s called mirroring and
most people won’t notice that you’re
doing it won’t notice that you’re doing
it well yeah because they’re really
interested in what they’re saying
and people like to talk sometimes and so
they’re they’re they they will keep
talking because it’s more like a
question yeah more like a question you
see what i’m doing good question yeah
dude oh my word
i love this see these are these are um
when i look at out across like
libertarians and and i hate to label
them as such but so many of us are are
socially awkward in the way that we have
conversations that we just we have that
struggle of connecting with so many
people and and so these are these are
just basic
relationship building um techniques
that’s what it’s all about
yeah you know when all things said or
done and said then people want to do
business with their friends and all
things considered people still want to
do business with their friends yeah why
not make friends
and change the world with it
yeah the we we have the opportunity i
mean we’ve got the philosophy we’ve got
the principles we’ve got
the the trade-offs the better trade-offs
um not to call them solutions but no
it’s right
and that book that that uh tell me more
that came from a book called getting
by stuart diamond that’s another great
book on negotiation that kai runs the
negotiation school at wharton
and he’s he’s got a great book out so
this raises the question for me
because we’ve listed probably seven
maybe eight books
what has been the most influential book
for you
what is the book that that when you’re
talking about selling liberty not no not
the practice of but the actual
philosophy what is that book that really
stands out to you because i know we
mentioned frederic frederick bastiats
the law and and certainly for for you
guys in the viewership if you guys have
not read that reach out to dwayne lester
he said he’s got six of them um
this is this is an example right here
this is an incredibly short read it’s
what you could read in one afternoon um
you can watch the year listen to the
youtube clip of it there’s a free
youtube um reading of it it’s less than
two hours long
it’s an incredibly powerful book i used
to quote it all the time i haven’t read
in a while so i gotta i gotta bust my my
volume out um and re-read that again but
what would you say is the is the book
that changed you the most uh in the ways
of of
selling liberty
you know in 2006 i was working as an
armed security guard at a nuclear power
i was a nuclear operator before this is
awesome yeah there you go there you go
so uh basically i was insurance they had
to have me they never wanted to use me
and my job was 12 hours of sitting in a
box doing nothing
and in 2006 i set a goal of reading 100
books in a year and in early december i
accomplished that goal and set another
goal of never doing anything that’s
stupid again
that was ridiculous i mean i was i had a
good pace going i had a great pace going
then i pulled out
atlas shrugged oh no
yeah that was a two-week read i just
kept what the what what and i’d go back
and read it and be like okay i get that
all right and then i just remember at
one point going how long does this
stupid monologue go on
when’s he gonna shut up
yeah but in that book in that year
actually the book that hit me the
and this was just this one year
was probably
this one
10 things you can’t say in america by
larry elder this was back when elder was
more libertarian than than republican
yeah i was going to say
i remember reading this saying wow i
agree with a lot of these libertarian
ideas maybe i’m not a conservative after
all and again i was i was evolving as
the more i learned because i remember i
remember having a discussion with my
saying no we need no child left behind
and she was going through uh education
school at that time and she looked at me
like i was an idiot and i was but she’s
like no that will do horrible horrible
things and i’m like no
the republicans are pushing it it must
be good she’s like
i married you and i’m questioning that
at this point
but i can tell by the way yeah
so i remember reading that saying wow
there’s a lot more libertarian ideas out
there that i don’t know about i need to
read about those and so that was kind of
the gateway drug to next thing you know
i’m reading rothbard and i’m reading
hayek and i’m reading
all these other books but then honestly
the law has had one of the biggest
impacts in my life because the
anything bastiere writes i just find
brilliant his yes he’s the petition for
the candle makers i mean i read that and
i’m like i wish i would i wish i was
this brilliant the idea here is
is it’s
they’re candle makers and they’re upset
because there’s huge competition and
this competition
knocks them out of the market 50 of the
this this
competition knocks them out and they
want protections put in place
to keep this competition out of their
arena and the biggest competition to the
candle makers is the sun
so they want the government to force
people to either have heavy heavy
curtains or to abolish windows
and that will help the candle makers
well yeah well how does that that sounds
stupid right well how is it just
any more stupid than tariffs or other
barriers that we put in place regulatory
so i mean the law is probably one of the
most impactful things because those four
questions that i asked at the beginning
a lot of it came from the law
i i
i would have to say like i am nowhere
close to like have read as many pages
i’ve read probably as many pages in my
entire life as you read
in in a
you know um but
definitely that is the book that i have
tried to sell everybody on now there was
a question from um there’s a
recommendation of
of of a book and i want to hear your
thoughts on economics and one less in
one lesson by hazlitt um your thoughts
on that
i know you have it i thought i pick up a
copy every time i see one there’s a lot
of good stuff in that the and has it
i’ve i believe that hazlitt is just a
continuation of bastia or not is it
bastia yeah the the bastia’s
window theory yeah so bostia’s broken
window theory i think continuation has
like continues that on and yeah there’s
a lot of parts of
hazlitt that i’m like uh just i’ll skip
over this chapter and i’ll go to the
next one i enjoy it
i think hazlitt’s good his writings is
good as well
and after struggling through the
monologue would you recommend to anyone
liberty minded
all of atlas shrugged
you would recommend a second time
reading that monologue a second time uh
you know
she’s got a lot of work out there and
when i read atlas shrugged honestly i’m
reading atlas shrugged and i’m like she
was really pissed off at people at this
point i think she’s writing and she’s
like why don’t you get this yet
i got to write another book for you to
figure this out
fine i’m just going to put it in these
40 pages and if you don’t get it then
screw you all i’m not writing anything
so yeah i actually like the fountain
head better than atlas shrugged okay
perfect i uh
i know like
in all the times that i’ve known you i
remember watching you over time build
out your library that was what two years
ago now
i i i’ll tell you audience that this man
this little section that we see here
there is literally
walls of this stuff this is this is
this is public libraries wish they could
be like dwayne lester this guy
has got it all and and so
definitely follow him on tick tock make
sure that you guys do and just send him
that dm and be like look i read this
book what’s the next one
he reaches out he’s there for you he
he’s going to ask you all these
questions on your own podcast
make sure that you understand what
you’re talking about but
he’s a absolute wealth of knowledge um
let me can i i don’t know how much time
we have no go for it i really don’t know
what is that because my whole
my whole world view is on helping people
understand these things helping people
be better at these things and helping
people be more effective at these things
and there’s a reason why that is so we
we talked a bit about knowing
why is that important to you and we talk
about i think you start with why you
have to understand why you
why are you listening to this podcast
tonight why is this important to you
i and i have nine kids and that’s weird
it’s why i do what i do
because i i’ve sat and thought about
this and and every time i look at some
place where where these
socialistic tendencies have taken root
where collectivism has taken root
every single time it ends
with hungry children
every single time you see kids starving
and this is important to me
because i never
want to hear my child or my grandchild
cry and hunger and me not be able to fix
that i mean it is that simple if you
think this isn’t about life and death
then you’re not paying attention
because it doesn’t stop here if we if we
don’t do something now
then we will have hungry kids in the
street and i’d never want to see that
more for my kids for anyone’s kid yeah
we have kids slipping through the cracks
right now and and that’s bad enough so
we can
through the tools that you’ve been
talking about here through the tools
that you continue to train people with
um through us asking why asking how
asking how we can better this how we can
have less people falling through the
cracks we can make a difference and and
i you talking about this just resonates
so much more
um it it just comes through so much more
clear to
than i could ever put into words and so
um i often talk about on on this podcast
of i want to equip people with the
information i want to give them the
tools the understanding of these topics
and that i want somebody to take my job
i want i i don’t want to be
this i don’t want to be viewed as a
libertarian i want to be viewed as
somebody who wants to make the world
better around me and i want to get
somebody else to do it better than me
that wants to have this credit that
wants to have the support and i think
don’t get me wrong i i think that you
may be also the same way while you have
this this massive tick tock following
that’s growing and booming because
you’re you’re phenomenal what you do
but i have no doubt that somebody who’d
be better than you you’d still be like
look i can help you i can help you grow
and yeah and it’s it’s beautiful to see
this is something that i
i would say we don’t see this
here comes labeling again but
we don’t see this in the republican
democratic party we don’t see this in
the duopoly we don’t see this in
statists we see this in people who are
doing it for the why
not for the who
and we’re doing it for the y for the who
and and through that through that lens
we are going to be able to to truly
change society around us and that’s so
incredibly important so um
i don’t have much else i want to i want
to give you the floor plug yourself talk
about what’s coming up where we can find
more dwayne lester at um and and
everything else but if you have any big
stories that you want to share that you
you’d be remiss without saying it um i
do have one question for you at the end
of that
i don’t i don’t have any big stories i
will say i want to end with this and
this goes back again to to
one of my philosophies for training and
that is it’s not about us it’s not about
me when i go into a training room it’s
not about me you’ll see some folks who
will go into a room and man they want
everyone in that room to know exactly
how smart they are they want to be the
sage on the stage i mean everybody
looking at them thinking man this guy’s
brilliant i don’t want that i mean you
all know i’m brilliant i don’t have to
stand on that right
but it’s not about me i’m joking it’s
not about me it’s about how i can help
each person i can make better is another
person out there
the the efforts i’m about magnification
i’m not about addition i don’t want
this another thing i learned from a book
it’s not about
it’s not about addition
you know
people can add to their following i
don’t want to add to my following i want
i want to multiply leaders because if i
make another leader they multiply they
multiply and they start adding followers
and then they build leaders and they
they add to their followers i’m about
multiplication not addition it’s not
about me i want to help anybody i can
so don’t hesitate to reach out to me i’m
on twitter at that dwayne lester um
that one
he is that guy he is that guy
you’re that doing lester
that’s just something i came up with um
then facebook is just dwayne lester tick
tock is dwayne lester uh i most of them
most social media outlets will have a
dwayne lester just because i’m like i
don’t know what that is but i’m claiming
my my spot on it
please reach out let me know how i can
help you
oh man you know what might be another
good podcast sometime is storytelling
yes i will definitely have you on for
that i would love love to have that um
your stories tonight like just talking
through things right you were selling us
a message while telling us a story
and and it was impactful it was
enthralling like i was i was just like i
don’t even want to like
i want this to beat the dwayne lester
i’ll just sit back and and be the
producer like i’m cool with that
um it’s a better internet first yeah
yeah for sure we gotta we gotta petition
the government to give you better
internet right
that’s another story in 2008 they had uh
all the stimulus money that went towards
broadband internet in missouri and i’m
like where’s mine when am i going to get
my love up here no none no
you guys aren’t politically connected
enough but they probably went you’re the
guy who runs that political blog on
missouri politics you get
full soup nazi internet nazi on me none
for you
we’re limiting your your capabilities by
any means necessary exactly
but my last question for you
who is
currently in
in whatever effects um in the political
do you
look up to the most or has inspired you
the most and and how you function
you know i i think there’s a dangerous
dangerous uh
affinity for people to
to turn politicians into celebrities
yeah i don’t i don’t know that i
have anybody in the political arena that
i would do that with um
i have met glenn jacobs three times
which i think means we’re destined to be
best friends the governor of tennessee
he’s the mayor uh
county mayor
he’s also kane in
um i like the fact that he’s able to
do what he does
effectively it seems
but uh yeah that’s a good question
you know there just seemed to
that’s something i’m gonna have to think
about because i’ve been more awash in
disappointment over the last four years
that all these people i thought were
principled watching them slowly sell out
to things that they never would have
considered before probably thomas massey
i like that dude okay um i’m not 100 on
a mosh i don’t know where he’s at on
things but massey always seems
consistent i guess i wouldn’t uh say i
idolize him i i think that with you
having a little bit of an unclear answer
means that you’re gonna have to come
back for a future episode oh well played
that’s perfect for me so i want to thank
you so much for for taking some time
away i want you to
share all your love with your wife and
and your newborn son and the other eight
kids if you still have some left over
for them um but i want to thank you so
much for for taking the time out to to
come on tonight and and hang out and
and truly uh enlighten me further than
than hearing this the some of the stuff
for the first time and hearing some of
the stuff for
you know through the trainings we’ve
been through the tenth time but it
you always are able to
to influence in a different way and i
from the bottom of my heart man thank
you so much for for taking the time and
you’re always more than welcome if you
have something that you’re just like
look i need to sell this to somebody i
need i need to hop on a podcast
don’t ever hesitate to reach out you’re
always more than welcome man it has been
my genuine pleasure thank you i
appreciate it all right well thank you
so much and uh audience i love you guys
all make sure you guys are tuning back
here tomorrow night um for muddy waters
of freedom with matt and spike where
they’re gonna be traversing the muddy
waters of freedom and uh always a
fantastic show as you guys know
wednesday night we’ve got 8 p.m ish
eastern uh that will be spike coen with
my fellow americans thursday night matt
wright comes back with the writer’s
block and then friday at 9 30 eastern we
will have the cajun and eskimo show from
bayous to igloos
so five great nights of five amazing
shows i’m so excited for the week and we
will continue on uh
next monday night at 8 pm with another
wonderful guest probably will not be
taking on the roof as well as doing
lester of course but we will have
another show but with that guys i hope
you guys all have a great night love you
all see you guys soon and remember to
keep selling that liberty all right

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Jason Lyon
Jason Lyon
Jason Lyon - USN Submarine Vet -Minarchist/Constitutionalist - #Liberty advocate - Principles over party - Constitution over Idolatry
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