Mr Bearded Truth – 32 – Whose body, whose choice with Natalie Bruno

Abortion is on the front of everyone’s minds now that the Supreme Court had a draft opinion get leaked. Not only that, but Oklahoma also recently had some new laws passed on the topic. Joining Jason is Natalie Bruno, the Libertarian Party’s candidate for Governor in Oklahoma. Listen in as they discuss abortion from the libertarian position.
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Episode Transcript

This episode transcript is auto-generated and a provided as a service to the hearing impaired. We apologize for any errors or inaccuracies.

hello and welcome to mr america the bearded truth covering political and social issues one liberty at a time
with entertaining insights of current events and important discussions on topics that affect us all
shining the torch of liberty and brightening the future by bringing libertarianism into our everyday life
and now your host the friendly neighborhood libertarian jason lyon mr
murica the bearded truth on muddied waters media
oh boys and girls we are back
friday night special episode with me mr merk of the beard of truth who would have thought who would have guessed well
here we are i’m so excited to be here i hope you guys are as well i’ve got one hell of a show lined up for you guys
tonight uh because the whole nation’s talking about it abortions is it right is it wrong should we legislate on it
how do we move forward as a nation and how what should the culture look like well
of course we’ve got some libertarian answers for you which means that it doesn’t fit neatly into the pro-choice
doesn’t fit neatly into the pro-life side of things but i am so excited to sit down with the libertarian party
candidate for governor of oklahoma natalie bruno today or tonight uh it’s
going to be an incredible show you’re not going to want to miss this so thank you of course to everyone for joining in
and for tuning in for sharing this out for liking it for dropping your comments i see you mercy
um thank you guys so much for being here so special episode
i’m excited hope you guys are but i want to give first a big thanks to matt and spike for continuing to give me a
platform to come out here talk to you guys and give you guys my views and everything else as well as being able to let me use uh amazing people like
natalie bruno to come talk with uh thank you to brian scott lambrick and jenny for the intro that we use on every
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on that and of course big thank you to kelsey lion designs who
this is somebody who i i will love and adore for the rest of my days um not
just for who she is but also for the work that she’s done and she has worked on so many different campaigns for
different uh events and different markets she will revolutionize the way
that you look she will help you with your logos your branding your business cards your publications whatever it is
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you will love what you get i guarantee it and i want to just thank each and every one
of you guys once again but if you guys wouldn’t mind help me welcome on the one
and only the amazing libertarian parties candidate for governor in oklahoma
natalie bruno natalie how are you doing tonight hey how’s it going good good
so special episode we get to sit down and we get to talk about the thing that nobody likes talking about um
everyone likes to scream yell and shout at each other um but you know just from
our pre-show i i know that things are are going to go quite well i’m i’m so excited for
today’s conversation but before we get into that i want to know natalie what’s been going
on over there in oklahoma for your campaign how has everything been going and then we can dive in a little bit to
what’s going on there first before we get into the national stuff yeah well
every time i’m on your show and i see your plug-in for your wife i always feel like i have to also mention that uh
kelsey is amazing and also did my logo and stuff as well so in honor of her my background today is actually a stamp and
repeat she did for a um for a banner of mine that i use at my um tabling events and stuff like that so
kelsey is really fantastic and outside of that you know my race has been going
fantastic we just finished filing season in april so we finally have uh official
candidates um on the roster so to speak so i was lucky that i had the entire support of
the libertarian party of oklahoma and every other candidate so i’m not primary i get the uh i get to
go straight through to the general election on november 8th but we will have
primaries for the democrats and the republicans um it’s shaking up to be a really interesting race
not only just because of our our dynamic here in oklahoma
but you know everything that’s been going on you know obviously everybody’s talking about the leaked um information about
the overturn of roe versus wade but here in oklahoma uh we’ve had two pieces of legislation over the last several weeks
one um earlier this week and one last month that had to do with abortion
as well and so it’s been shaking things really interesting for my campaign because of the fact that
even though i personally approach uh poor pro-life i believe in pro-choice when it comes to keeping the government
out of those decisions and based on how things are going with the other candidates so they um you know typically
this is a strong democratic stance but the democrat that is looking to
win that seat joy hofmeister she actually was a flipped republican that said she was only running as a democrat because
the incumbent has taken over the party and even though right now she’s pretty
much saying the same thing as me which is i’m pro-life but i’m letting other people make decisions that’s actually
completely contradictory to a lot of statements she put out when she was running as a republican so it looks like i might be the only
um women’s right and anti-government out of women’s health candidate that’s going to be on the general election ballot in
november so it’s it’s uh shaking up to be um really interesting i’ll say that
so are you saying that potentially this leaker or the roe vs wade was just there to help you and your campaign that’s a
i’m just kidding like as horrible as it is and it is kind
of almost shaking up to be that way because i you know we know as libertarians we have no
problem standing up for beliefs that we believe in no matter how right or wrong they might seem to uh libertaria to
democrats and republicans so it just so happens this this stance this time
is going to propel me ahead of the other two candidates so it’s incredible um now you mentioned that you had two bills there in oklahoma
did you want to briefly talk about those a little bit yeah absolutely so there was um senate bill 612 which essentially what it did
was it made it a felony to conduct a abortion so like a doctor or
anything like that um i believe it’s up to ten years and a hundred thousand dollars um of a fine
and then um the newest one which is until 1503 made
it illegal to have an abortion past six weeks oh wow and it also had the same snitch law
written into it that texas had which basically gives ten thousand dollars to um
individuals that snitch on somebody else that’s performing abortions so it’s it’s a really unfortunate thing especially
considering um the average amount of weeks along that a woman is before she even finds out that she’s pregnant is about five
and a half weeks and then due to in a lot of states you know and here as well
there’s a lot of built-in things where you can’t get an abortion the same day that you go to the clinic or you know
you have to go through certain things before you’re even allowed to have an abortion so you’re basically forcing it out of even possibility even
if you do find out you know beforehand so um there’s some a lot of
you know crazy things about it and i wish that things were as easy as people like to
say it is which is just you know oh you’re murdering babies or oh this but it is not a black and white issue
there’s so much gray so much gray which is why i as a personally pro-life individual
believe that the government needs to stay out of it because there’s just there’s too much gray areas in between yeah definitely and and it looks like
for both of those bills um what it encourages is is for if you’re wealthy enough you just leave the state you go
get it done and and you’re fine if you’re a person lowering the income scale or
don’t have uh don’t have the ability well it sucks to suck and and no doctor’s gonna wanna
you know perform these abortions and and you know the poor like usual exactly and and for
the six week thing i mean you know i don’t want to get into my wife’s personal health too much but you
know after a heart surgery her schedule fluctuates quite a bit
and you know she’s gone seven weeks before so we wouldn’t have even had a sign there to say hey you know you’re
pregnant uh thankfully you know we haven’t been put into that circumstance but i’m sure that we’re not just an
isolated case where you know there are plenty of women out there that have irregular cycles to where
by the time that they have confirmation that they’re pregnant they’re already beyond that six week ban so it feels
almost like um it feels like uh from from the outside at least that people are just
would rather win on the legislative side rather than actually you know care the kind of like what you were saying it’s not just a black and
white thing it’s there’s so many different details that that legislators and lawmakers just
ignore entirely um well not only that but if you think about it i feel like a lot of the
pro-life materials that i’m seeing out there or arguments really paint women who get
abortions out to be these floozies that are just running around having unprotected sex
and you know that’s not the case actually you know i there’s always things that we hear but i like to dig in
and be like okay what’s really the statistic on that yes and i pulled up some stuff about how um
like 59 of women actually already have at least one child and you know 73 of the reasons of
abortion are actually financial you know it has nothing to do with the fact of oh uh you know i’m just an unmarried person
that had sex you know these are women who already have children you know they didn’t want to have additional children
because of the fact that they um you know could they already know they can’t afford it and obviously
typically it’s the more conservative side that is against abortion but they’re also
against welfare so you’re having these situations where you have women who can’t afford to fly out
of state to have abortions who are already saying the reason they wanted to have an abortion is because they know they can’t afford it but by golly if
they keep their baby and they ask to be on welfare you’re shaming them for why are you popping out all these kids when
you know you can’t afford it and then on top of that we fail to recognize or realize
that birth control and getting a tubal litigation and stuff is not as easy to
get as we like to proclaim it is you know for myself even you know within the state of oklahoma
the these christian um hospitals they do not allow tubal litigation so whenever i had my
fourth child and i wanted to have a tubal done i couldn’t even have it during my
c-section i had to have a completely separate appointment to go in
and outpatient surgery just to have a tubal so it’s like hey so we’re going to
fault you for not wanting to have a pregnancy but all these things that you can do as a woman to prevent pregnancy
we’re going to either make it very difficult for you to do or we’re going to make it to where your husband has to sign off on it or we’re
going to tell you no we’re not going to do it because you don’t have any children yet and you might change your mind
and then even when it comes to birth control you can’t just go to a pharmacy and buy birth control like
men can buy condoms it doesn’t work that way it’s so much more complicated
you know than we’re making it out to be yeah absolutely and that that that point of
you have to get your husband’s permission you have to get a permission slip oh daddy can i please have my uh
my tube side it’s just like that that’s not we are working there’s so much of the
system that works against everybody against men and women in this
country from being able to make decisions for their own life and then when circumstances arise where you have
married women who are having consensual sex with their husbands protected sex and doing all the right things and
they’re still you know they still accidentally have a kid and they’re not you know just as you said they don’t
have the financial means to take care of them now they’re stuck in this this pit where they get looked down upon for not being
able to afford their lifestyle or they get looked down upon for trying to make a financial decision of not having a kid
and and so there’s it’s only a lose-lose situation for so many people that
it i guess it should be expected with kind of the um just kind of the views that political
people typically have of the rest of the population if you don’t live the life that the way that i say that you do then
you’re just destined to mess up and you know no sympathy no care no no no response at all um and go ahead
even with that you know another argument is here we hear is oh well you’ve always put the chat up for you know adoption
well the issues with that is number one it’s a lot harder if you’re an
individual that didn’t want to have a child once you are actually carrying out a pregnancy now you are visibly pregnant
to your family members to other you know people in society and the negative effects of being a person that puts up
their child for adoption is almost as bad as putting your is getting an abortion
to be honest with you and then especially when you go into terms of like i can only mostly speak to my state
and i like to remind people as well you know i have a blended family of my own i
birthed four kids i have two stepsons i would be willing to bet i probably spend
more volunteer hours per week in the realm of children than any other politician that i know of in my state i
was recognized last year for my service to children um you know by winning the
judgement patent award so i spend a ton of time dealing with children who are in a
situation where they’ve been removed from homes and stuff like that and to see the amount of children
currently without having strict abortion bans that are not being adopted
you know are seeing in the foster care system which i would like to remind everybody that 48 of children who exit
out of the foster system say they have been either physically or sexually abused okay so we have these situations and then on
top of that you know we’re not even talking about the fact that these bills don’t even cover when there’s something
medically wrong with the baby you know like let’s say that a child is going to be you know severely mentally
handicapped and you know not be able to live a normal life a normal pregnancy
would allow for a woman to have tests done and then make that determination and if they know that you know it takes a special person
to be a parent to a severely specialized child and not having that ability to abort
that pregnancy you’re going to force them to carry out a pregnancy that they are going to put that child up for
adoption that nobody will adopt because nobody wants to adopt children with disabilities right now any given day you
know we are at a negative of 75 homes that are needed homes not children
homes that are needed for fostering special needs children and whenever it comes to adopting
special needs children that doesn’t happen you know and you know the expenses around it so if
we’re talking about 73 of people are choosing abortion because they can’t afford you
know i pulled some numbers and in the state of oklahoma on average we had about 4 780
abortions okay so if we take 73 of those and say that you know those people it
was for financial region reasons that’s 3489 additional people that could essentially be on welfare so
you know if you take into the average cost of welfare in our state for a child that totals up to almost 67 million
dollars additional that taxpayers are going to have to pay to fund children if they even stay at the home but let’s
talk about abuse even in the state of oklahoma child abuse is the highest than any other state
in the united states so we’re going to take these people who didn’t want to have children force them to have
children and so either they’re going to end up in the system they’re going to end up abused or they’re going to end up
waiting for homes where there’s not enough people to adopt them so it’s a lose-lose lose-lose situation yes
and and you mentioned the adoption um just the mindset so i was adopted before
birth i am one of the fortunate kids out there so um through
my birth mother um was married to a man got
they they separated for a little bit she got pregnant and then went back to her her husband and he said it’s not my kid
i’m not going to raise them so i she had the option of either a abort me
or b put me up for adoption thankfully her sister came along and and her and her
husband adopted me so that’s my my mother and father i am incredibly lucky for that um
you know and and this isn’t to say like uh abortion is the wrong thing it’s it’s
it’s just saying that was what the path forward was i am incredibly fortunate for the path that was given to me by
having somebody adopt me before birth if i if that wasn’t the circumstance
um that you know how long would i have been in you know going from home to home how
long would it have been until i was adopted and and thankfully you know um other than maybe just being a
libertarian i’m i’m normal otherwise so there’s a there’s a large struggle there
to begin with and my camera doesn’t want to focus on me anymore but um there’s a large struggle there and listening to my
birth mother now that i i learned who she was and i’ve had built a relationship with her the mindset of
somebody who gives their kid up for adoption is just as difficult as somebody who goes through abortion this isn’t these things are not something
that that come lightly for anybody she saw me about eight months after i was born and it was so incredibly hard for
her to give me up after then um these these are decisions that shouldn’t
be made lightly and they aren’t but these are not ones that should be made a decision by a pen of a legislator that
has never cared about you never known your name or anything about your life these are things that have to come down to individual choices
absolutely and you know not only in regards to that yeah you’re
a fuzzy camera super super distracting um but you know
that’s i guess one of the things that just kind of angers me in general is that you know it really appears that we
only care about the thought of helping children it’s so easy to wave your you know
mostly i’ll say republican flag and say oh i’m here to save the babies or hey
you’re pro-choice so you’re all about murdering babies when in all actuality with the amount of child trafficking we
have in our state with it being a you know major cross section with 35 and 40 but the fact that we’re number one
in domestic violence and child abuse and all of these things that just tells me no we’re not really for the children
we’re just for controlling women’s bodies and liking to pretend like we care about the children because if it
was really about caring for the children then we wouldn’t have our current life breathing children in the
predicaments that we’re putting them in right now with our failing criminal justice system where most of their parents are imprisoned for ridiculous
you know cannabis charges and you know i could go on for days in that regard you know how passionate i am about justice
reform but and it just shows us at least in our state that we are really not
for the child and we need to address the situation with you know the people that we can actively affect on a day-to-day
basis before we try worrying about you know the personal private decisions that women should be able to make between
them and their doctors on what is best for their personal situation because at the end of the day it’s forced pregnancy
it’s easy for people to say because it is mostly men offense to you and
that have really strong opinions about um you know abortion and
life but they’re not it’s easy for them to uh run off and have a pack of cigarettes and then never come back
women be physically carrying the baby it physically changes your body and if something were to ever happen you know i
have two daughters and both of them have five functioning autism if one of them were to be raped
and they wanted to have that choice to not have to be forced to permanently
change their body you know by carrying a baby that they are not going to be in a position to
take care of i’m not going to force them on that just because i feel from a morality standpoint
that you know i have a better knowledge of what they should do with their life or their bodies than they should
and you know so it’s not just standing up for me even though i you know like i said my tunes are tight i have no skin in the game myself
because you know with the you know short of a miracle i don’t have to be worried about getting pregnant again but i am
absolutely going to fight for that right to have that decision for all the other women and young ladies and children out
there and i think it’s also important that while we talk about this choice you know as um
this supreme court as the uh opinion was leaked at the draft of the opinion at
least was leaked the idea that we go to federalism and and have all 50 states be able to make
their own case as to how it goes there will be states where this is a majorly
criminal activity um it’s going to be interesting to see the way that that plays out where um
you know miscarriages are are something that you know you have people that are visibly pregnant and then they
miscarriage those are going to come under criminal scrutiny and and i
i you know you and i the last time we i had you on we were talking about the death penalty and we were talking about
people’s lives being destroyed like actually being ended innocently
and and we’re gonna see that when it comes to a woman now and when you have a a section or a state that that implements
this and a woman has a innocent miscarriage because let’s face it a fetus inside the
belly is still an incredibly susceptible thing it’s incredibly vulnerable there’s so many things that
can happen that we will see more lives get destroyed because people felt a certain way morally rather than
feeling with compassion and trying to help build up our communities there’s so many things that we could be doing
absolutely well i’ve had too much character myself i had one at seven weeks but then
i had one at almost six months um i had already knew i was having a boy his name was owen and it was a super
unfortunate thing where the umbilical cord got wrapped around his neck and um i felt something was wrong i went
into the emergency room um here at integris and there was no more heartbeat okay and i had to do a dnc so
technically i guess you could say i have had to have an abortion because that is how you have to handle
those miscarriages is i had to have a dnc in order to pass the child
and how with as traumatic as that was for me then imagine how traumatic it
would be if that was now wherein there would be an opportunity for someone to challenge me on whether i
really lost my baby or if i just secretly had an abortion and how much more traumatizing that
would be for a woman to have to prove that they had a miscarriage as opposed
to um you know just not having it be an issue at all like i can’t imagine if i would
have had to have gone through that on top of the fact of miscarrying a child that far along yeah
and and you know for people who haven’t been in that i mean you know that’s gruesome for
me because i’ve had plenty of friends and and that have been through that but if somehow somebody hasn’t i mean just
imagine when you lost a loved one somebody who was walking around and you lost that loved one and while you’re
still grieving you had an officer walk up to you and be like why’d you do it
it’s traumatizing the grieving stage is such a hard part of life just for for so
many people and then to have a baby or a fetus or whatever we want to call it at the time
to have a lost one this isn’t an opportunity for us to to say now you need to have the government step in and
i think that one of the other important things that when we talk about this um and this is where it gets really boring
is the the idea that there are states that are looking at making life legally at conception or at six
weeks or whatever that point is and it makes a very interesting thing because of the way the laws are already
structured that at that point of once it’s life you basically have to have this documented if that’s why we have
the the certificate of death and the certificate of birth the certificate of death or dead birth or stillborn um is
now you’re literally open up this can of worms for more and more people to have
the state intervene and and it hurts my soul to see good libertarians on on so many issues
stand there and say no we need to we need to codify this as this is the point of life and we need to make it a legal
matter i i i just look at how the state has handled so many of our other issues i i don’t
see how welcoming them into another aspect of our of our most personal and
loving parts of our lives how that’s going to make any of this better absolutely and at the end of the day
you know it comes down to a personal moral issue it really does and whenever just like how they say it’s
really impossible to argue about religion in general because it’s something that you believe right
so you know we could go blue in the face you know about our different beliefs
and because there’s no you know nothing tangible that we can like really argue with it it’s about our
faith and and that’s why this abortion topic is so hot to people because
you know it is highly moral based but we cannot make laws and legislation based off of morality and then being the
morality police we just can’t do it because then where are we going to draw the line right there’s so many other
things that and you know we fail to remember because you know maybe it’s because of
the agents some of us were at that time but we tried it we made um abortion illegal and what we did was the
mortality rate of women went through the roof you know that’s why this whole thing happened in the first place is because
just like we see with the war on drugs prohibition doesn’t work okay it doesn’t i am all for less unplanned pregnancies
i am all for less abortions but this is not the way to fix it it’s not all we’re doing
is we are disproportionately uh targeting those who are low income and we really really cared about there being
less frequent um unplanned pregnancies we would address some of these issues that cause these problems about the
um you know not being able to um have female sterilization that we
request and not having all these hoops that we have to jump through and making birth control more accessible and and
all of these things that we kind of mentioned earlier if we really cared about women and cared about babies you know
let’s not you know let’s actually fix the root of the problem not focus on you know the end result so
to speak and you know i’m really really hoping that you know
some things change the legislatively um because this is going to be a a really serious backlash and you know
essentially you know we feel like it’s almost a war against women and you know it’s pretty unfortunate that’s happening
yeah no absolutely and and i think what’s what’s kind of is the winning issue on this is that if you look at a
national polling of of how people view abortions
we we hear from the fringe groups we hear from the fringe pro-choice and we hear from the fringe pro-life but there
are so many americans out there that that kind of see this more for what it is and they say look it’s it’s not my
decision it shouldn’t be my decision and and i think that you know as well as long as we’re standing out here um
saying you know people need to be able to live their lives and make the best decisions for themselves they may they
may make a decision that they don’t like that leads to another decision that they don’t like but we need to be there to to
help them and and to your point about you know we gotta go to the root and we gotta actually solve some of these
issues a lot of people think that as soon as you you make as soon as you prohibit
the uh abortions that suddenly all these problems are going away and as as you’ve eloquently put out
you know we’re still gonna have issues in the foster care system those are gonna get exacerbated we’re still gonna have issues in the in the uh abortion or
in the adoption realm um kids are not going to be getting picked up but they’re going to be over flooded there’s going to be more needy people in in
plugging back into the criminal justice system kids that are in and out of foster homes are much more likely to be
going into the prison system because they don’t have a structured life
a structured family around them without a nucleus family you’re more likely to have that and so there’s so many aspects
that we see where republicans and democrats typically try to nitpick at society and at the culture and so many
of these things are so interwoven with one another and it’s like why don’t we actually look at the root of some of these problems and actually try to
address them right republicans clearly have won out in oklahoma and they think that the death
penalty is the way to to stop all the crime but you know as you were talking about the last time you were on here clearly that’s not it and you’re getting
it wrong more often than you’re getting or not you’re getting it wrong enough to where it’s a major concern right well and one
thing that you brought up a second ago so i’m actually going to segue back into when you’re talking about we usually hear from the fringe groups right
is that one thing that really irked me about um signing this last bill was that he said
i’m speaking for all four million oklahomans by signing the six week um
you know bill but amber integrated which is a group that does uh political polling here just in december did
political polling asking that if roe versus wade was overturned do oklahomans think that
there should be a complete down abortion and even within the republican party it wasn’t over 40 um it wasn’t over 50
there was 48 that said yes the rest either said no or undecided and it was
in some groups you know 70 and 60 saying no no no like so no i’m sorry but a
majority of us do not want a total ban on abortion you know do most of us think that abortion should
be used as like just a you know come and go type of birth control no but we understand that there
are too many gray areas that it shouldn’t be up to you and i to decide what is a good reason to have an abortion what a good reason isn’t it
it’s between the woman and their health care provider especially considering you know the
issue with like the late term abortions you know 85 of abortions are done before 13 weeks so
in the first trimester and the only ones that are really done after that are when the mother’s health is in danger so we
are already you know women don’t want to have an abortion after they already look like they’re pregnant they are already
trying to again get in as quickly as possible to take care of the situation granted we’ve created all these rules
like i said and i also want to mention too we as libertarians we do not believe
in federal funded abortions we don’t believe in uh planned parenthood we don’t believe in any of those we do
think that it should be private entities and stuff that handle these so we don’t we aren’t even saying that you as
taxpayers should have to put a dime on it okay because there are non-profits still take care of that okay
you know so we will say that we are against the federal funding of these programs but
they should be allowed and they should not be illegal yeah and i i put out a tweet um i think
it was last week when this was all blowing up but it was like you know funding is certainly a concern for
libertarians not a single taxpayer penny should go to either abortion providers or their counterpart companies so that
that way it can get slashed over and enable these things but you know in order to try to help that
you know of course the voluntary donations those should all become tax credits just straight off the top like
you know to allow for people the opportunity that they can fund what they believe in to help people get
affordable health care um when it comes to these matters or other forms of health care it doesn’t really matter to
me i i think that you know moving it in the way of allowing the people to speak with their dollars on what is needed for
society rather than having government just be able to slosh a bunch of money into different programs and and allow
for it to to go wherever it may actually give us the opportunity this is going to handle a lot of that that
revenue issue that that you know people that are are adamant about pro-choice um that almost wants you to scream from
the rooftops about it this will help at least subsidize some of that because we’ve seen in the past
and i remember um there was a i don’t remember what the actress name was but she made large donations to
planned parenthood under mike pence’s name and they made it very public and i was like you’re proving that you don’t
need the tax money you guys just continue to fund what you guys want and and we’ll be all right
so absolutely if it’s something that’s important to somebody there’s going to be a way to fund it you
know we don’t need the government to fund those things and so when it comes down to it you know
you don’t have to pay a single one-year tax dollars to support an abortion from somebody else and if you don’t want to have an abortion don’t have one
and you know at least allow women the right to choose when they want to become a mother and
when they don’t and you know the argument you know well when you have sex that’s just a risk that you take you
know that’s you know it’s not the 40s or the 20s or anything like that anymore it’s 20 22.
let’s just be realistic yeah and i would be willing to bet that most people i know did not save themselves to marriage
okay accidents happen but you know most of the time when women are having
these abortions a lot of the ones that i know who have which isn’t very many you know because it isn’t the thing it’s not
like women are just having abortions all over the place you know these are situations where they were on birth
control and it failed you know and different situations arose themselves and i will say that happens all of the
time of my four children two of them are birth control babies i will tell you that um but mistakes you know mistakes happen
and we have to allow women to choose what physically happens to their bodies and what doesn’t yeah especially when you look at what
childbirth does to a woman’s body i mean it it’s not it’s not just a matter of
like just looking at and and i don’t want to be i don’t want to be gruesome with it it’s
not just a matter of like the vagina just like shrink it back and then you’re suddenly good you know like your teeth
are ultimately weakened like it this affects the entire woman’s body and how it’s structured and how it repairs and
everything else multiple childbirth is is incredibly difficult it’s it’s a it’s considered a major trauma on the woman’s
body so if a woman has already been through a lot you know my wife um and i don’t i don’t like bringing up her
medical health we had my my daughter a month later she had heart surgery a
month later she had open heart surgery her body could barely handle all three of those and and having the discussion
around her being able to handle just giving birth you know we we
we do all the things to make sure that we don’t but this puts her at a much higher risk and so am i just not
supposed to allow to to have intercourse with my own wife is that is that the standard society would like for me to
have because i’ll i’ll be honest like it’s a it’s it’s a part of the marriage like
we enjoy that time right exactly and you know and i’m sorry you know the argument
that you know sex is only for uh procreation like i hate that argument and i hate to
you know sorry if anybody’s children are in the room listening to this but we’re grown adults and you know i believe in
having you know straightforward conversations about things but if sex was made for purely procreation then it
wouldn’t be enjoyable it wouldn’t i’m sorry so and there has been speak
of you know sex from a recreational standpoint even as much as in the bible
so it is not just out there for procreation i’m sorry and yes you know
that is a side effect of having sex is becoming pregnant but that shouldn’t mean that you know women are forced into
that and you know there is a story actually of um that i have heard because obviously on facebook because this is such a thing
everybody’s sharing their personal stories with abortion and you know we as women are the ones that have to
sacrifice when these things happen you know there was a story of a young lady
and her boyfriend that are college students they’re both college athletes and
you know she became pregnant if she would have kept that it kept the pregnancy she would have had to have
quit her college sports career okay would the father have had to have done
that no father’s fine father still living life just helped you know the way that he was should we have required him
to because she has to no longer play college sports because she has to physically carry the baby that has a
sympathy that he should have but also play college sports because he doesn’t have those same responsibilities as the
mom no of course that’s ridiculous but you know there are you know women are affected in such a different way
and the man is in this situation and that’s just the way it is and i know that it’s frustrating to people that you
know we as women hold all the cards but we’re also the ones that have to hold all the risk and you know unfortunately you know that’s
just the way it is it is one of those struggles and and all too often i i think it’s so it’s so bad
um when people downplay just that how much of a difference there is when it comes to the
genders in this and i also think that i’m kind of also frustrated because
there’s there is that section of people that say that men should have absolutely no say in this discussion at all and i’m
like 1973 when bro versus wave was passed it was passed by an all male scotus but
like the good ideas are good ideas and and we have to we have to look at that but that doesn’t mean that you know we
have to say that there’s equal risk in this just as you had pointed out because there is a lot more
at stake when it comes to a woman being pregnant versus a versus a man who
pumped and dumped effectively you know he gets to he gets to continue on with his life and and he can he could
do whatever in the court systems we know how broken the court system is and and how that’s you know that’s that’s a
whole nother conversation of child support or child custody battles and et cetera et cetera um but i think that
that really brings in a lot more of the nuance of this conversation of
how is it that somebody is going to tell somebody else what kind of a life that they have to live because you know
you can say for nine months i get to control you you can’t abort a child but for the next 18 years
20 years and probably looking like 30 years coming soon based on the economy you know you’re stuck with these
children so your entire life i have determined that you have to suffer for the next 30 years through these
circumstances and hopefully you’re going to get it right or i’m going to criticize you even further we have to i think that there needs to
be a lot more compassion when it comes to this conversation and all too often it’s just blanketed i have an idea and
therefore my idea is good and at the end of the day the best thing that we can do is just listen to the people that are in these
circumstances and say i really don’t know i don’t know how you had a situation of
a woman here in oklahoma so and this is the kind of things that i think that we’ll continue to see so
two-part situations one um is the story of there was a woman who had a miscarriage but because she had
drugs in her system they decided to go ahead and charge her with murder or so that’s something that’s happening
right now so she had a miscarriage but they believed it was due to the fact that she was on drugs so that is what
she’s currently being charged for and to my understanding it could be manslaughter i might be mixing the two
but she does have charges being pending for that so there’s situations like that that we’re going to see happen a lot
more okay and then on top of that you know we have situation where we do have women
who have um like mental health issues where they’re on medications for schizophrenia
or things like that to where if they are not on those medications okay then
you know they are at a severe risk to not only themselves than others but you also cannot take those medications
safely while pregnant so are we going to force them to then get off of their meds and become unsafe so
that way they can give birth to a child or are they going to continue to take these medications and hope that doesn’t affect the baby but by golly if it does
then we’re going to hold you accountable for that too so there’s again so many gray areas that are going to pop
up so we can’t dictate yes or no so we need to allow it and allow the individual
choices that the women make that be between them their doctor and if you know and their god if it is a situation
where it’s a morality thing for you yeah and and you know the the old saying of
safe legal and rare i i think that the important thing is that we try to find ways to make it more rare when possible
we try to make it easier for people and we don’t criticize those who make these incredibly hard decisions we we’ve
covered a lot of those circumstances where it’s not easy on these people at all and
i think it’s also important to know and this is definitely an outlier for a lot of people but there are people that are
basically at the point of giving birth before they even realize they’re pregnant because of the birth control that
they’re on they don’t have periods so they don’t have like a normal cycle but they get pregnant and they don’t realize
it as i said this is a complete outlier but now you have people in circumstances where
now they’re suddenly apparent and and the shock that they go through
now of course when you don’t let people have abortions they get the gradual buildup of that shock of i have to live
for the next 18 years 20 years with a child and and figure out my life and get things together
it’s not so easy when it’s a 16 year old it’s not so easy you know as a 16 year old girl if if you’re having consensual
sex with another 16 year old and you get pregnant the idea that
you’re going to damn her schooling she can’t finish school because now she’s got a kid and trying to juggle that
she’s not going to be able to have a fulfilling career not many people are going to be attracted to her and and so she’s going
to struggle so severely that the opportunity has to be given for her or
whatever circumstances she’s in to be able to make the best decision for her life going forward um i
yeah i’m probably repeating myself way too much on this but i will say with that
yeah i know i will say with that okay obviously there are so many fantastic
success stories of women who chose to keep their babies right as teenage moms
that ended up you know doing fantastic and raising these fantastic children by no means are we saying the young ladies
are not fully capable and able you know to you know keep their children and be
fantastic mothers but the point is though they should be able to make that choice for themselves if they do feel
like they are strong enough to do it or not because we’re not we’re seeing
people that are in their late 20s having children that we should probably second guess whether or not they should have had children or not you know so it’s
yeah you know it’s a situation where it’s we’re not saying all
the young ladies aren’t capable and yes we do know there are some women who have been raped that decided to keep their babies and we do know that there’s some
women that decided to keep their babies and that’s amazing you know i love my children i love being pregnant i would
you know i don’t think that there would ever be a reason where i would ever personally
have an abortion no matter if you know something happened to my husband or anything like i would probably you know because i love my children so
much but i’m not all women and all women are not going to you know have situations or react to the
situations the same way you know i personally you know was raped when i was 12 years old
and thankfully i did not have very much trauma from it i you know for whatever reason like i i
went through a period of time but i’m able to talk about it i don’t get triggered and i use it as a really great
example about how we’re not having certain conversations with our children and and that’s something that you know i
could do a whole podcast over about how we don’t prepare our children um our young ladies for
um certain things the way we should but not i know i know women who have been
raped around the same age that still have nightmares to this day so i mean there’s every single situation affects people
very differently and you can’t make a decision for that person based off of how you feel or how you would handle it
because you are not that person and they are not you we have to let people make the decisions that they know are best
for them and their family yeah everyone’s an individual you don’t know like where they came from how they
got where they are how they’re going to respond how they’ve responded to other things
blanketed statements don’t work um and and with the society stacking the decks
against everybody in in our societies and and of course on the show we’ve covered you know how how hard it is to
start up a small business we’ve talked about the criminal justice system being stacked against uh certain demographics
and certain populations we’ve talked about um you know just the education system being a an absolute failure in
the public side uh there’s so many things out there that you don’t get to to force people into a
shitty situation because you yourself was in a shitty situation just say you i support you regardless of
which way you choose it’s amazing when you have success stories it’s it’s it’s heartbreaking to see people fail and and
you know eventually the empathy has got to win out in the day and
you know it it’s it’s incredibly important this has been such an incredible conversation we haven’t
there’s been no one screaming in the comment section uh i’ve been i’ve been learning so much from you
um i we got we’re coming up about surprise i i really expected there to at least be a couple people that are like
you just love killing babies or you know stuff like that when when it comes down to it’s like guys it’s it’s all out of
love you know what i mean like every on both sides we just either it’s just a matter of whether you have
an outward love more for the women that are having to go through these issues or for those unborn babies
i feel in i really feel in my heart that when some of these things are done i do think it happens with the best of
intentions but we just don’t really think through all the things it affects and really
think through you know how doing one thing negatively impacts
so many other things because you just don’t understand it the way the same way somebody else says yeah
and i think that that’s a it’s a really important note there of like you’re doing this with good intentions um
because people are imagine being in a circumstance that you’re not
comfortable where you are in your life and then finding out you’re pregnant people are not making this lightly as we
said they’re trying to make the best decision for themselves and and they’re
trying with the best intentions and all that they need they don’t need to see you on facebook you know shouting them
down or shouting other people down who’ve had abortions if you want to build connections if you want to build
that compassion that empathy with people around you you have to be welcoming for people to make decisions that maybe you
wouldn’t make yourself but you’re going to support them through that and and so i i you know i want to thank you so much
natalie for for coming on i want to give you the last couple of minutes to give you about five minutes or so to plug
plug everywhere that we can find you um anything that you got coming up and and of course give you last last words on
this yeah absolutely thank you um i appreciate you having me on
spike and i we’ve been playing tag where he had something come up and then i had something come up and then he had
something so um having the ability to talk about this while it’s still so relevant and fresh on everybody’s minds i think is
really important um when it comes to myself for anybody that is interested in all of my stances outside of abortion
you can visit my website which is elect on there it’ll have my issues you can
volunteer um you don’t even have to be in the state of oklahoma to help my campaign believe me when i say there are
many things that you can do and even if you’re in south carolina or
maine or anything like that um you know there is a job for you here
uh this has been so far a fantastic libertarian campaign um my ultimate goal
is obviously to win um you know but if by some crazy chance i don’t i do expect to pull some of the
best numbers that a libertarian has ran so you know having the opportunity for
people to come and join me and be part of that you know i’d be really fortunate to have um any extra people that i can
um i also have facebook which is at natalie bruno llp i’m on twitter at
natalie bruno i’m also on clubhouse tick tock instagram
all of the things so come find me and then if you have any additional questions or if you want my um you know
stamps on you know specific verticals within this issue reach out to me i am not one of those candidates that give
political answers where i don’t really tell you my stance on an issue if i just dance around it even if it’s a hard
topic like tonight or even if it is something that i don’t think is going to be the most popular stance i’m going to
tell you because i would much rather voters know exactly where i stand than to allow the media or other people to to
guess based off of you know the political affiliation that i have so thank you so much
for having me on and uh talking about this very passionate you know issue that we are all facing
right now yeah thank you so much for for coming on and i i am so excited everything i’ve
looked at and and seen from you is just it’s immaculate it’s perfect uh i’m i’m
so excited to see you actually become the first governor elected um as a
libertarian this is this is coming um so everyone please do go to uh elect
natalie bruno uh i did spell it correct uh like uh show her some
support show her some love ask her questions um see if if you can get her to post publicly about the questions you
ask you know get her to get her stances out there encourage her let her know what’s on your mind so that
she can be the best candidate that she can be and and that’s only through your support um so please get out there and help her
out i i my endorsement means nothing but i would endorse you for anything that you’re running for um you have a thumb this
time they don’t know that joke that’s why i didn’t do it over here
oh the ghost thump um but thank you so much for joining me
tonight and uh i’m looking forward to seeing more success from you and everything else and looking forward to having you back on
thank you have a good night a good weekend all right thank you all right what an incredible
conversation that was i’m so excited every time i get to talk to natalie she is as she said she’s
incredibly approachable you can ask her about anything she will be there she’ll give you those answers and
she’s going to take care of oklahoma so make sure you guys get out there you support her if you’re in oklahoma go support her go canvas for her go help
her make sure that she is the next governor of oklahoma if you’re outside the state donations
are available go ahead just make sure you’re not violating fec laws by the contributions that you’re trying to
send her but make sure you’re following those but get over there to elect but as for the
conversation tonight i mean this is the nuance this is the thing right we both come from the pro-life side on this
conversation but we understand that there has to be compassion there has to be empathy we have to look at the
circumstances and understand that there’s too much volatility there’s too many too many different aspects too many
gears shifting around for us to be able to make a one-size-fits-all this doesn’t work in education this doesn’t work in
healthcare this doesn’t work in the criminal justice system so why would it work in the abortion sector um you know
so incredible conversation tonight i am invigorated to continue pushing out there and talking about this um but
the show’s only an hour long so i want to thank you guys all for being a part of tonight hopefully you guys enjoyed the conversation i see a lot of you guys
joining in in the comment section thank you guys for so much for the support there and uh love you guys appreciate
you guys all but if you guys want to tune in next week next tuesday night muddy waters of freedom with spike and
matt as they traverse the current events uh it’ll be a great show of course wednesday night and maybe
maybe natalie’s coming back for another uh good conversation with spycona my fellow americans thursday night will be
matt wright with the writer’s block and then friday we’ll be back here with nate banks talking about um messaging and
uniting with unlikely allies in order to be successful in um in our intentions
and on our legislation so a hell of a show lined up next week all week long make
sure you guys are tuning in thank you guys so much for being here make sure you guys head on over to slash muddy water subscribe to get a part of
the exclusive group and get a part of all those good things but with that i hope you guys all have a great weekend
i’ll see you guys all later be well be good and stay

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Jason Lyon
Jason Lyon
Jason Lyon - USN Submarine Vet -Minarchist/Constitutionalist - #Liberty advocate - Principles over party - Constitution over Idolatry
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