(((My Fellow Americans))) #92: Joshua & Justin of For All Tennessee

DISCLOSURE

FULL TRANSCRIPT TEXT

02:28
i’ll be
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buried in my grave
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before
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[Music]
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way back in
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[Music]
02:56
[Music]
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change
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[Music]
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before i
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[Music]
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that is
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[Music]
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but it seems like since
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[Music]
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we have sorely changed
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[Music]
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oh
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and now live from beautiful myrtle beach
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south carolina
04:34
you’re watching my fellow americans
04:38
with your host spike cullen
04:41
yes yes it’s me
04:45
it’s me i’m here i’m here
04:49
and my lips have finally stopped
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bleeding keep clapping miracles how
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would we know
04:57
that you wanted the non-lip bleeding
04:59
miracle
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if you didn’t keep clapping welcome to
05:02
my full americans i
05:03
am literally spike cohen and i know what
05:06
you’re thinking
05:07
spike i can’t decide whether it was
05:09
better or worse when you had the
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band-aids on your lips but here’s the
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thing it’s at least not bleeding anymore
05:16
we are getting there this is day i don’t
05:19
know
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10 i think of lip bleed gate
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uh and uh you know we’re getting there
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we are healing
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get better spike i don’t know what the
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hashtag is but uh
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we got a lot of conspiracy theories last
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week or actually yesterday
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05:37
no my wife did not
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uh did not abuse me uh i did literally
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stab myself while eating
05:43
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10:53
because i’m kosher too i’m actually not
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kosher fulaka
11:00
shout out to tehran turkson’s mom and
11:02
them as always folks
11:03
i have two really special people tonight
11:05
as my guests
11:06
uh they are folks that i’ve known for
11:08
quite a while now in tennessee
11:10
uh some great liberty minded people who
11:12
are doing some incredible work to
11:14
empower the people of tennessee and
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limit government in any way that they
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can
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they have actually started an
11:20
organization that works to do just that
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called for all tennessee
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they are pushing specific legislative
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goals uh that will do just that that
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will
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empower the average uh tennessee
11:30
everyday tennessee
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residents and make their lives better
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and easier
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by getting the government off their
11:35
backs and so without any further ado
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let’s find out more about what they’re
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doing
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ladies and gentlemen my fellow americans
11:41
please welcome to the show
11:43
mr joshua eckel and justin cornett josh
11:47
you uh justin thank you so much for
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joining hey thanks for having us spike
11:52
yeah we’re really looking forward to it
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i’m really excited to really dive into
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these goals and also to talk about the
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absolute nonsense that happened earlier
12:00
today but we’ll get into that
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uh but folks be sure to uh tune in with
12:03
your comment with your thoughts
12:05
and questions uh joshua justin and i
12:08
will tell you if you are right uh or
12:11
wrong now
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guys let’s before we get started because
12:14
there that some absolute
12:16
bs happened today but let’s let’s talk
12:18
about what got you guys into this what
12:21
what
12:21
led you to say you know what we need to
12:23
do this organization we need to start
12:25
for all tennessee and we need to
12:26
hit the ground running is it was it sort
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of a gradual evolution over time or an
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aha moment
12:30
tell us the genesis story of for all
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tennessee the
12:34
the the aha moment is kind of a funny
12:37
story considering you’re part of it
12:39
um we actually talked about the kernel
12:42
of this idea
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uh when we were at the election night
12:45
party in dallas
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uh sitting in the room to watch uh
12:49
joe on kennedy i think it was uh and
12:52
um yeah yeah the idea came from
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a a a thought why can’t we
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have an organization that lobbies on
13:03
behalf of the people
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and how would we set that up and
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that’s what we’ve tried to do and
13:10
thankfully i have a josh
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uh you guys should all have a josh uh
13:15
he’s
13:15
really good at organizing things and
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helping flesh out
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good ideas that we wouldn’t be here
13:21
without any
13:22
questions about it yeah so to add to
13:24
that spike you know we’ve been involved
13:25
in the liberty movement for about
13:27
10 years um in the lp for
13:31
probably the last four and uh you know
13:33
we
13:34
we’ve seen a lot of different approaches
13:36
um and what we were thinking was you
13:38
know what can we do
13:39
to build bridges uh across people that
13:42
are
13:43
outside of that traditional liberty
13:44
movement um and kind of come to get them
13:47
to come to agree with us on the
13:48
consensus
13:49
uh that we need to promote liberty from
13:50
a legislative perspective and this
13:52
organization is kind of the core of that
13:54
um you know that initiative to kind of
13:56
get that off the ground
13:57
that’s awesome that’s awesome and and
13:59
you know i i would imagine
14:01
that we get caught up a lot in the idea
14:05
of
14:06
as libertarians we get caught up in the
14:08
idea of you know the republicans and the
14:10
democrats they’re not going to
14:12
serve us we need to replace them and we
14:13
need to put in people that
14:15
that you know reflect our beliefs and
14:17
our values and that’s certainly still a
14:18
laudable goal and something that we
14:20
should be pushing towards
14:21
in the meantime we’re still being
14:23
affected by the decisions that are being
14:25
made
14:25
by the people who are currently right
14:27
now in office and the idea of not
14:29
engaging with them at all if for no
14:31
other reason than to at least try to get
14:33
whatever we can
14:34
with the idea that whatever we can’t get
14:36
we can go back to the people and say hey
14:38
look
14:38
we tried our best to get it but you know
14:40
they’re not going to let us do it
14:41
it seems to me like that’s a missed
14:43
opportunity and it’s really great i’m
14:45
glad that i
14:46
as you just said personally inspired you
14:49
uh to start this time
14:53
i kind of did it you can quote me on
14:55
that
15:00
to the point you just made um the truth
15:02
is
15:03
a majority of the country agrees with
15:05
these liberty positions
15:06
right yep uh majority of the country
15:08
aligns with us when we talk about
15:10
you know the stances that we that we
15:11
really hold the problem is
15:13
the system in place uh almost uh
15:17
incentivizes people to fight and to
15:20
to kind of constantly be going back and
15:22
forth and create non-issues
15:24
um to try to divide people because it
15:26
helps the fundraise and it helps them
15:27
keep their grasp on power
15:29
so what he’s trying to say is we let
15:31
people pick and choose
15:32
the issues that are they’re interested
15:35
in so they never have to worry about
15:36
their dollars going to
15:38
a place that they don’t want to be and
15:40
the
15:41
the tag on it the the truth is at the
15:44
core
15:45
um that the idea is as an organization
15:48
we want to try
15:49
to align and get people to unite around
15:52
those issues that we know most people
15:53
agree on right everybody can
15:55
that’s where i was trying to go
15:56
everybody can think of something that
15:58
they
15:58
don’t want the government to do uh you
16:01
know some way that they should be able
16:03
to exercise their freedom that they are
16:05
not allowed to exercise their freedom
16:07
or something that the government does
16:09
that it shouldn’t do
16:10
every single person in the united states
16:14
can think of something that they don’t
16:17
want the government to do or that they
16:18
think they should be free to do
16:20
everybody right so all we want to do is
16:22
be the facilitator for the people that
16:23
want to come together
16:24
in the majority positions on these
16:26
issues and keep going as we go
16:29
and get things done uh it’s a it’s a
16:31
it’s a
16:32
really interesting way to have liberty
16:35
affected while including everyone uh and
16:39
letting them drive the agenda because
16:41
we’ll take anything that you can fit in
16:43
empowering people with limiting
16:44
government yeah that is awesome so
16:47
what this does is you’re able to uh
16:51
hyper focus people on instead of a a
16:54
umbrella idea of you know setting people
16:57
free or an umbrella
16:58
idea of taking the power back you’re
17:00
saying we want to do this
17:01
this and this and it’s not
17:05
inherently partisan any of these things
17:07
it’s not inherently it’s really not even
17:09
inherently ideological it’s we believe
17:11
that you would do better
17:12
if this happened and so we’re going to
17:14
get everyone together regardless of
17:16
republican democrat anything else
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it is a principled stance on
17:21
policy that empowers people or limits
17:24
government that’s all it is
17:26
that’s all it is so at the core of the
17:28
organization spike
17:29
um we basically want to be a
17:30
democratized 501c4
17:32
and so what that basically means is i
17:34
mean i’m sure you’ve ran into it you get
17:36
these big political institutions these
17:38
501 c course typically they’re run by
17:40
big donors
17:41
um they have this kind of like political
17:43
interest that they’re trying to push
17:44
people on and organize people around
17:46
and it’s very top down so these
17:48
organizations exist to promote a
17:49
specific idea and you come alongside
17:51
them or you don’t
17:52
right so as a 51c4 we want to
17:55
revolutionize that model we want to flip
17:56
it on its head
17:57
so we want to have our policy agendas
18:00
and our focus areas every year bubble up
18:02
from the ground up
18:03
our members basically drive all of our
18:05
policy making decisions
18:06
and as you can imagine that it really
18:09
significantly increases our
18:10
effectiveness as a grassroots
18:11
organization
18:12
because when the people at the bottom
18:14
the people that are actually doing the
18:14
work are bought in and it’s their ideas
18:17
and it’s their values
18:18
they’re far more likely to show up and
18:20
work for those values than if it’s some
18:22
you know
18:23
big donor in dc that’s trying to push a
18:24
political agenda so
18:26
when i say democratize 501 c4 that’s
18:28
kind of what i mean um
18:29
you know the the members drive the
18:31
policy and it’s all within that
18:33
parameter
18:34
of empowering people and limiting
18:36
government um but they’re the ones that
18:37
make that decision and they’re the ones
18:39
that decide kind of where we focus
18:40
within that
18:41
specific umbrella if that makes sense
18:43
that’s awesome so the the
18:44
it looks like the three main things that
18:46
you are pushing for
18:48
right now are uh and we’re going to dive
18:51
into each individual one but the three
18:53
big things that you’re pushing for right
18:54
now
18:54
are increased ballot access uh for
18:58
third parties and non-republic rat
19:01
candidates non-republican and democrat
19:02
candidates
19:03
uh criminal justice reform um which is
19:06
quite a few different things but and
19:08
then also uh supporting small businesses
19:10
which right now
19:11
more than ever before is is it crucial
19:14
and important
19:15
um let’s talk about ballot access and
19:17
this is we’re gonna go we’re gonna dive
19:19
right into the the outrage of the day
19:21
um
19:28
yeah so so i want to before
19:31
what so we’ll start with talk to us
19:34
about what your
19:36
here’s how i want to do this talk to us
19:37
just a little bit about what the
19:39
the goal is for ballot access then i
19:42
want to play this clip of someone
19:44
explaining
19:45
their reason why there shouldn’t be more
19:47
ballot access you can
19:49
explain why that’s garbage and then
19:51
we’re going to show the clip of the
19:52
absolute outrage of the day so let’s
19:54
talk to us about
19:55
the the reason we need more ballot
19:57
access
19:58
we’re talking tennessee but just in
19:59
general why we need more ballot access
20:01
and you can talk i mean tennessee’s a
20:02
mess when it comes to ballot access
20:04
right
20:05
as of 2018 tennessee was the third worst
20:08
state in the entire country for the
20:10
number of signatures required to get on
20:12
a ballot
20:13
if you were a minor party currently in
20:16
the state of tennessee
20:18
if you’re a democrat republican or
20:19
independent and you run with
20:21
d or or i by your name you need
20:24
25 signatures to get on the ballot if
20:27
you want to run with a
20:28
c by your name for constitution party or
20:31
g
20:31
for green or l for libertarian or k
20:34
for kanye west party then you have to
20:37
have
20:38
56 082 signatures
20:42
tennessee yeah and tennessee and the
20:44
tennessee
20:45
constitution calls for free and equal
20:46
elections so
20:48
very much right it’s very much in spite
20:50
it’s very much an opposition event
20:52
and what he doesn’t mention too uh
20:53
before we get to the bill is that
20:55
retention
20:55
in tennessee is absolutely abysmal you
20:58
collect those 56 000 signatures if you
21:00
don’t run a candidate within a four-year
21:01
window
21:02
uh for governor for president or senate
21:04
and get five percent of the vote they
21:06
send you back to square one
21:07
yeah the the five percent
21:10
threshold represents a a two-fold
21:13
threshold okay
21:14
so one on one side it it’s your
21:17
retention you have to
21:19
once you collect the signatures you have
21:21
to run a candidate
21:22
that candidate has to pull five percent
21:24
if they don’t you’re back to square one
21:26
okay that’s the retention aspect of it
21:28
on the other side
21:29
there’s being labeled a statewide party
21:33
if you were labeled a statewide party
21:35
you
21:36
you also are required to hold primaries
21:39
which cost taxpayer dollars which gets a
21:42
fiscal note put on your bill
21:43
which guarantees that it goes down so
21:47
the way the bill has been written
21:50
the way the bill has been written we
21:52
separated those two numbers out
21:54
and we shrank the retention number down
21:56
to one percent instead of five percent
21:58
which is still a very tough moniker to
22:01
get
22:01
in a state or a federal senate governor
22:05
or presidential race
22:06
in a state like tennessee one percent is
22:09
not a given by any stretch of the
22:10
imagination
22:12
and it changes the number that would
22:13
trigger the automatic primaries
22:15
to 25 which you know it might be a
22:18
little while before anybody gets to a 25
22:21
threshold right right in a statewide
22:23
race and that’s going to
22:24
not hurt the taxpayers for a very long
22:26
time right so
22:28
yeah it’s it’s a good bill
22:31
realistically the crux of it is just
22:33
making the numbers something that’s
22:35
manageable
22:36
uh instead of 2.5 percent of the votes
22:39
cast in the governor’s race
22:41
we shrank the number 2.5 percent uh
22:44
which changes it from 56 082 to i think
22:48
it’s 11 281. it’s 11 and change
22:51
which puts us on par with the national
22:53
average for alternative parties
22:54
yeah which is which is still like 500
22:57
times higher
22:58
than the republicans and democrats have
23:00
to do so it’s still putting you at a
23:01
severe disadvantage
23:03
but not a prohibitive one that that
23:05
makes it where no one can actually
23:06
affect you
23:08
it’s notable too if you know who uh
23:12
richard winger is uh who does ballot
23:14
access news
23:15
uh he keeps a tracker on these things
23:17
and uh is very aware of the
23:19
valid access requirements state by state
23:21
and we did a
23:23
breakdown of what it looked like in 2018
23:26
when tennessee was third i and there
23:29
were 31 states
23:30
that were 10 000 or less on their
23:33
requirement
23:35
37 states that were 15 000 or less
23:38
so it’s a it’s not just an outlier it’s
23:41
a
23:42
five times outlier that is
23:46
among a small group of other states that
23:48
are also ridiculous outliers
23:51
and and you so because that’s that’s
23:54
third highest by
23:55
by the actual like by static number by
23:58
percentage that’s probably the worst
24:00
right
24:01
uh that i don’t know i think that there
24:03
are other states that have the same
24:05
number
24:05
and on all actuality but i think oh it’s
24:07
the same percentage okay okay i i i
24:10
don’t know
24:11
richard winger would be the one to check
24:13
well it’ll happen
24:14
yeah and we’re gonna have it on our
24:15
website this week we’re about to post
24:16
all those resources so that anyone can
24:18
look at it but i mean think about it
24:19
like this
24:20
in 2018 the only two states that were
24:22
higher than us were texas and california
24:24
both of those states had five times the
24:26
population right right yes
24:29
i mean we’re up there with them um up
24:31
among the worst yeah
24:32
yeah it makes no sense from a percentage
24:34
basis at all spike it’s crazy
24:35
yeah so the legislation that you
24:37
proposed basically
24:40
it greatly reduced what those thresholds
24:42
were made it’s still
24:44
hundreds of times higher than what if
24:45
you’re a republic rat what you what you
24:47
have to do if you’re
24:48
an r or a d then you know 25 signatures
24:51
and stepping back for a second this is
24:53
me giving my personal opinion
24:54
there are some people that say if you
24:56
want to run for office you should be
24:57
able to just say i’m running for office
24:59
and you sign a thing and now you’re on
25:00
the ballot
25:01
that would create a situation where
25:02
people could just be trolls and you
25:04
could have a ballot that is like a bible
25:06
and you’re just looking at hundreds or
25:08
thousands of names i understand the need
25:10
to have
25:11
some kind of threshold whether it’s 25
25:13
signatures 50 signatures 100 signatures
25:16
and it just shows a level of seriousness
25:18
50 000
25:19
signatures is it is you now are spending
25:23
more time doing that than being able to
25:25
actually run for office
25:27
against much more well-heeled and
25:29
politically connected and well-funded
25:31
opponents
25:33
and keep in mind you can run as an
25:36
independent
25:37
for 25 signatures so
25:40
in 2018 i think there were about 25
25:42
names on the ballot for governor
25:44
and there was a democrat a republican
25:47
and 23 independents
25:49
right yeah and so it creates a situation
25:51
almost like what you
25:52
described where the threshold got
25:54
although
25:56
yeah it’s just they don’t have a a a
25:58
different moniker by their name it’s
26:00
literally
26:00
just the letter by the name it doesn’t
26:02
change anything else
26:04
right so you’re so anyway so your
26:07
your bill gets makes that easier for
26:10
someone to
26:10
to be able to run as their actual party
26:12
and and reflect
26:13
here is here is someone who at least
26:16
didn’t try to pretend that this was
26:18
about free and fair access
26:20
here is the argument that we heard from
26:22
one of the republic rats at the uh
26:24
legislative hearing today for your bill
26:26
uh that was proposed
26:27
and uh i’m just gonna we can talk more
26:30
about some of the
26:31
subterfuge that happened afterwards some
26:32
of the absolutely nonsense but just
26:34
here is what you’re up against in terms
26:36
of the the
26:38
uh uh the justifications that they have
26:41
for this bill let’s let’s listen to this
26:43
for a second it’s about two minutes
26:44
here here is what i’m wondering i think
26:47
in tennessee
26:51
you got republican democrat and
26:54
independent
26:56
and to be perfectly honest that’s about
26:59
the way tennesseans think out of one
27:01
group or the other
27:02
they either democrat the republican or
27:05
they
27:06
are an independent which you can choose
27:08
either one right now
27:10
let’s just say libertarian or green
27:12
parties
27:13
i don’t know which party would come
27:15
closer to thinking like my party
27:17
or your party i don’t know but
27:21
to add another party to me
27:25
really takes away from all of us
27:29
from your partner
27:34
when you put somebody cut my mic off
27:36
when you put a name on the ticket
27:40
if it’s a republican and a democrat
27:44
an independent green party libertarian
27:47
or whatever
27:48
people have tendency to vote with their
27:51
group
27:54
more so in some ways than they do for
27:56
the character
27:58
of the person that’s on the ballot so i
28:00
think what
28:01
we’re going to do is split the voters up
28:04
more and we’re already facing issues
28:08
right now with the voting and i mean
28:10
i know you know that a whole lot of
28:11
issues right now
28:13
and i think we’re going to create more
28:15
havoc
28:16
by adding another party
28:20
than we are if you just look on the
28:23
ballot and if you are republican
28:25
you like this guy this lady or if you’re
28:28
a democrat
28:29
you like this this fellow or this lady
28:32
you’re an independent don’t like either
28:34
one of them but when you add that other
28:36
party
28:37
then you’re going to take folks away
28:40
from other people
28:41
that really think and believe the very
28:43
same thing
28:45
i i just don’t i’m trying to figure out
28:48
why do we need
28:51
another party with the system that we’ve
28:54
got
28:55
right now and with and that’s with all
28:57
due respect i appreciate
28:59
your efforts here but i just don’t i
29:02
can’t
29:02
understand what we are accomplishing
29:07
so basically what he’s asking is why
29:10
would anyone need to have more
29:12
than two options you can t
29:15
i’m i’m curious what your what your
29:16
response was to that i certainly have my
29:18
thoughts on i’d love to hear what yours
29:19
are
29:20
well obviously the system’s working so
29:22
well right spike right um
29:26
so that alone is uh is kind of a crazy
29:29
thought um but you know our our primary
29:31
sponsor of the bill really i think was
29:32
very
29:33
pointed and intentional with what he
29:34
said to that response and what he said
29:36
was
29:37
today you know from the inception of of
29:39
the state of tennessee there have been
29:41
almost 40
29:41
45 minor parties that have been involved
29:44
in the political process at some point
29:46
in time
29:46
and his response and this is also my
29:48
response is that’s the way our republic
29:51
was meant to work
29:52
people are supposed to be able to form
29:54
new groups organize
29:55
uh rally around ideas if they’re not
29:58
allowed to do that
29:59
because there’s institutional hurdles
30:00
keeping them from doing that by design
30:02
as you can tell
30:03
by uh shaw’s commentary uh then our
30:06
system breaks down like it has in the
30:08
last 50 years since the 60s when they
30:09
passed this bill
30:10
so he he was brilliant
30:13
he really was i wish we had that clip i
30:15
wish i would yeah you can watch on our
30:17
website 4ltn.org where rep holds he
30:19
follows it up very well
30:22
he’s not the most eloquent man in the
30:24
whole wide world but uh
30:26
he understands why this is right and he
30:28
fought it
30:29
very well oh gosh
30:32
that was the wrong thing i’m gonna try
30:34
my best to to be
30:35
to uh uh to uh
30:38
articulate the problem with even that
30:41
question
30:42
he’s presuming that there are
30:44
essentially two ways to think about
30:46
everything yeah
30:47
and if you’re some kind of weirdo who
30:49
doesn’t line up with this way or that
30:51
way or his people
30:52
as i think he put it the people vote
30:54
with their people that was frightening
30:56
uh that if you aren’t one of these one
30:58
of your yeah their group
30:59
uh if you aren’t one of the if you’re
31:01
one of these weirdos that doesn’t vote
31:03
with
31:03
your group quote unquote then you have
31:05
this third option
31:06
and my why that should be good enough
31:09
obviously that’s garbage there are
31:11
at times five six seven different
31:13
arguments on even just a given subject
31:15
much less on
31:16
how the entire state or or government
31:18
should be run
31:19
also the reason we have
31:22
the division that we have in this
31:24
country is precisely because of the
31:26
false binary choice that’s being
31:28
presented
31:28
instead of being given a bourse of
31:30
options to choose from
31:32
and having people all lay out their
31:34
different ways of how things should be
31:35
done
31:36
instead he’s instead you now have
31:40
your group red your team red or your
31:42
team blue your group r
31:44
or your group d and you have to hate
31:46
each other and of course because those
31:48
two parties are actually
31:49
there’s less and less actual difference
31:51
between them in policy they have to make
31:53
up for it with more and more
31:54
theater of opposition which creates even
31:56
more fighting
31:57
this is all set up to divide us
32:01
the best way to end that division is to
32:03
have as many different options as
32:04
possible to create as much
32:06
nuance in the argument to begin with so
32:08
that it’s not
32:09
you’re either evil or good or you’re
32:11
either terrible or you’re wonderful it’s
32:13
there are all these different options
32:15
you can choose from any of them and and
32:17
none of them make you inherently a good
32:19
or bad person as a result of it it is
32:21
the antidote to the kind of division
32:23
that we’re seeing right now
32:25
or you could be part of an organization
32:27
where
32:28
all of your collective voters got into
32:31
the same spot
32:32
in order to force the hand of the the uh
32:35
the people that hold office
32:36
making the the party of the people that
32:39
hold office
32:40
almost moved yeah i mean that’s an and
32:42
or right i mean we
32:44
vote why why why i mean i get it
32:47
but if the way george washington and his
32:50
farewell address now let me warn you in
32:53
the most solemn manner of the bane of
32:54
party
32:55
where he goes on and spends 750 words
32:58
telling you
32:59
don’t do it don’t get sucked into these
33:01
freaking parties yeah
33:03
and here we are sucked into the parties
33:05
george washington all of a sudden sounds
33:07
like a prophet
33:08
and we are literally trying to create
33:12
something
33:12
that counters the political party system
33:15
by giving
33:16
people the ability to come together
33:18
around an issue and facilitating
33:20
the things that they want and
33:22
representing them and trying to let them
33:25
naturally form a voting bloc we’re just
33:28
we’re just we’re just facilitators
33:30
that’s all we are yeah it it’s
33:33
oh spike i so love this idea i’m glad
33:35
you talked me into it when we were in
33:37
dallas
33:38
yes i am so glad that i single-handedly
33:41
exclusively inspired both of you
33:43
individually and then collectively to do
33:45
this together
33:46
it was i’m i’m very proud to see my body
33:49
take off
33:49
like this i’m the light of the world
33:52
yeah
33:54
yeah that commentary though on that bill
33:56
today was was very frustrating and
33:58
disconcerting yeah i can imagine
34:00
yeah it was it was very sad you know the
34:02
truth is though
34:03
and i’m sure we’ll you know we’re
34:04
planning to get to this at some point is
34:06
that bill was set to pass committee i
34:08
mean that guy was
34:09
was a minority voice on the subcommittee
34:12
uh
34:12
we we walked in when we walked in as the
34:15
guy that
34:16
does the hill work uh when we walked in
34:19
we had five
34:19
three on an eight person um subcommittee
34:23
uh and if you really
34:26
listen close everybody that said they
34:28
were gonna vote with us did
34:29
um and somehow the nays still want it so
34:32
yeah we’re gonna
34:34
we’re gonna play that right now so uh as
34:37
justin just said walking into this
34:39
their vote count was that five were
34:41
gonna vote in favor of this
34:43
in favor of of getting of of loosening
34:46
the ballot access restrictions
34:48
three were going to vote against it
34:49
including the one that you just heard
34:50
speak
34:51
um and here’s what happened
34:54
and you can listen for yourselves uh
34:57
seeing none um
34:58
we will proceed to vote on the bill all
35:00
those in favor of the bill say aye
35:03
all those opposed say nay nay
35:07
bill fails with no
35:12
all right thank you mr chairman and
35:14
committee
35:19
yeah so he literally just lied
35:22
yeah you won this your bill should have
35:25
passed
35:26
but he literally just said no i heard
35:29
rep
35:29
and it’s not as though with with eight
35:31
people voting they couldn’t have just
35:33
counted who voted
35:35
i i i i hope that that’s not the case
35:38
all right i spoke to this guy
35:40
i i talked to this guy he was very open
35:42
and honest with me
35:43
as the chairman of this committee that
35:45
he was two things
35:46
opposed to the bill and not going to
35:48
work against me
35:50
so i i think that i’m i’m not ready to
35:53
leap to the conclusion that he gave me
35:55
an unfair shake
35:56
and we have the option to um
36:00
file for reconsideration and what we
36:03
have to have is one of the no votes
36:05
uh say that they are willing to re
36:08
reconsider it if that’s the case we can
36:10
get it put back on the
36:12
agenda and we can get the correct vote
36:14
on it the the
36:15
the truth will come out on this bike
36:18
because those five votes aren’t going
36:19
anywhere
36:20
even if it turns into a situation where
36:22
he’s unwilling to reconsider it we can
36:23
show
36:24
demonstratively clear with signatures
36:26
that these five people voted for it and
36:28
it was
36:28
yeah and it may not be anything yeah but
36:30
we’ve got that we’ve got
36:32
yeah we can get those we’ve got those
36:33
commitments so we’re going to try to get
36:34
that information publicly available to
36:36
show the people what happened
36:37
but it again man that’s you know those
36:39
are the kind of things like
36:41
uh allowing the chair’s discretion to
36:43
decide
36:44
that when it’s uh such a close vote
36:46
doesn’t make much sense to us at all
36:47
there’s no reason for that right what’s
36:50
really funny is it led me to
36:51
something that we should discuss is a
36:53
policy item for next year on the agenda
36:56
and it’s a light uh on the front of each
37:00
desk
37:00
so even in a voice vote they’re sitting
37:03
and hitting
37:03
a button that gives a light so that we
37:06
can see what the actual results
37:08
of the the instead of just relying on
37:10
the chairs discretion to
37:12
accurately call a voice vote yeah that
37:14
makes sense there is
37:16
absolutely no reason with eight people
37:18
voting
37:19
that you can’t like you said lights or
37:21
even just
37:22
hey what do you vote okay what do you
37:25
vote what do you vote what do you i vote
37:27
this what are you what
37:28
are you like there is no reason that
37:30
they can’t do that i have been to
37:31
you know plenty of party conventions
37:33
state party conventions where they’ll
37:34
try to do it by voice
37:36
vote and there’s like 100 150 50 however
37:39
many people there
37:40
you know dozens or hundreds of people
37:42
there and they’ll do try to do a voice
37:43
vote and if it sounds even the least bit
37:45
iffy on on who won or who lost now
37:48
everyone has to get up and vote it can
37:50
take 15
37:51
20 minutes to to get it you can spend
37:54
spend
37:54
close to a half hour in the voting and
37:56
tabulating and everything because it’s
37:58
only right to make sure
38:00
that it was voted on correctly with
38:02
eight people you can in probably about a
38:04
minute
38:05
find out who voted what if it’s even the
38:08
least bit questionable
38:09
that’s being unquestionable you had more
38:11
votes uh for yes than you had no
38:13
and that’s just right and they’re on the
38:15
record and
38:16
yeah you can hear it i mean you can
38:19
but you know spike um that’s one of many
38:22
fights we’re going to have this year
38:23
there’s a
38:24
something near a dozen bills that we’re
38:25
working on and you know
38:27
we plan to come back in the following
38:29
year and if
38:30
even if we can’t get this appeal through
38:32
we’re going to bring this bill back
38:33
we’re going to keep refining it and keep
38:35
pushing it um you know we may be adding
38:37
new
38:37
uh legislative issues based on our our
38:40
members votes
38:41
first stuff like ranked choice voting
38:42
and some other reforms around the
38:44
election space
38:45
that i think would have a very positive
38:46
impact in the state but
38:48
you know you take it as you go one one
38:50
day at a time so yeah we gotta we got a
38:51
late start this session in fairness
38:54
i mean we technically didn’t exist until
38:56
after
38:57
session had already started so and we
39:00
still think we’ll get
39:01
a couple maybe three bills through uh
39:03
out of the
39:04
eight major ones that we’ve been pushing
39:06
the whole time that’s good that’s good
39:08
listen you just gotta keep pushing
39:10
forward
39:10
uh in the meantime i’m definitely gonna
39:12
be putting that video up just as soon as
39:14
i’m allowed to post on social media
39:16
again
39:16
uh just to let people know like this is
39:18
what happens uh
39:19
and it’s not even behind closed doors
39:21
this is what happens on public access
39:23
television for anyone who wants to watch
39:25
it
39:25
in the halls of positions of power that
39:28
you have elected people into
39:29
uh this is what they do to you and it it
39:31
doesn’t stop until we hold them
39:33
accountable now let’s talk about some of
39:34
these other goals that you have
39:36
um so we know i mean the ballot access
39:38
it is you know it
39:39
you that’s certainly a laudable goal uh
39:42
and
39:42
and that’s gonna be a tough road to hoe
39:44
for obvious reasons because you’re
39:46
dealing with
39:47
you know the the parties saying wait a
39:49
second this would make it where
39:50
we don’t have a total iron grip on on
39:52
who gets into office
39:54
but let’s talk about some of these other
39:55
goals that might have some good chance
39:57
of
39:57
might have even better chance of getting
39:59
through because they aren’t inherently
40:01
uh necessarily taking power from those
40:02
that are in power uh let’s talk about
40:04
criminal justice reform
40:06
um what are some of the things like
40:07
civil asset forfeiture laws and things
40:09
like that what are some of the things
40:10
that you will want to push
40:12
uh in the realm of criminal justice
40:13
reform in this session
40:15
yeah so we’ve got kind of five piece
40:16
legislation i’ll let cornet fill you in
40:18
on some of the details but a big thing
40:19
for us
40:20
is uh you know we believe most people if
40:22
you’re if you’re kind of a rational
40:23
level-headed american you’re against
40:25
civil forfeiture
40:26
and for those of you that don’t know i’m
40:27
sure many of your audience does but for
40:28
those of you that don’t know
40:30
civil forfeiture is a process by which
40:31
you know law enforcement can
40:33
assume that you’re using property in the
40:34
commission of a crime so say they find
40:36
like
40:36
cash in your car or they find like a
40:39
baggie of drugs or whatever
40:41
they can seize that without any uh
40:44
criminal conviction or even any charge
40:46
um they say hey this was used in the
40:48
commission of crime we’re taking it
40:49
um you know there’s a story of a woman
40:51
out in gatlinburg in tennessee
40:53
who uh got uh who got her inheritance
40:56
from her mother
40:57
and she was driving from the bank with a
41:00
ten thousand dollars in cash in her car
41:02
she had a little baggie of crushed up
41:04
anti-acid pills that she used
41:06
to kind of uh you know help her digest
41:08
food the police thought that it was a
41:10
hard drug
41:11
and they seized her inheritance and she
41:13
had to go through a multi-year and very
41:14
expensive process to get
41:16
those assets back so it’s really alive
41:18
and well in tennessee so we want to
41:19
reform that
41:20
we’ve got four pieces of legislation
41:22
i’ll let cornett going to give you the
41:23
play-by-play on those
41:24
um if i may though josh um
41:27
there was a particular district here in
41:30
tennessee on civil asset forfeiture
41:33
that a local nashville news uh
41:36
station did a expose on when it came to
41:39
civil asset forfeiture
41:41
um it’s been a few years back maybe five
41:44
years ago or something like that
41:46
and the story went that the
41:49
civil forfeitures were all happening in
41:52
lanes going west
41:53
back toward memphis through texas to
41:56
mexico
41:57
with cash and none of them happened in
42:00
the eastbound lanes where
42:02
presumably all the drugs went through
42:04
which basically means that the police
42:07
were
42:08
intentionally letting drugs
42:11
get through in order to make sure that
42:13
cash
42:14
back so that they could stop the vehicle
42:18
with the cash
42:19
and collect the cash they wanted the
42:22
deal to happen or the gun deal or
42:24
whatever they wanted the illegal
42:26
activity to happen well
42:28
that’s the insinuation and i didn’t do
42:30
this
42:31
the local news did this about five years
42:33
ago you can find it you can google
42:35
nashville civil asset forfeiture
42:37
i think it’s channel five it’s all there
42:39
well you know it’s very clear though
42:41
even if they don’t do it on purpose or
42:43
not is irrelevant there’s a systematic
42:45
perverse incentive for them to do it and
42:48
the reason there is is because
42:50
the money they cease go straight into
42:51
their budgets to buy some new toys
42:53
buy some new tanks well not into their
42:55
budgets it goes into
42:56
law enforcement hands they can’t go into
42:58
their budgets legally at the state level
43:00
so they have to fight they still get all
43:02
of their funding
43:03
and then this buys extra stuff yeah so
43:05
it’s like play money
43:06
right so i mean talk about perverse
43:08
incentive but so we’ve got four
43:11
it’s true you cannot use it as part of
43:13
your over think about it spike
43:15
if they could use it as part of their
43:16
overall budget the incentive is really
43:19
there
43:19
yeah that’s true so this is a situation
43:22
also where you now have law enforcement
43:25
on an ad hoc
43:26
arbitrary basis deciding whether or not
43:28
you’re the type of person that should
43:29
have that kind of money
43:31
right so if i look the part of that
43:34
officer
43:34
right that that officer looks at me and
43:36
goes yeah you look like you should have
43:38
five grand on you but then i
43:39
don’t look the part for whatever reason
43:41
the car i’m driving color of my skin my
43:43
age whatever whatever reason
43:45
they have now you now have and this is
43:48
why we’re supposed to have due process
43:50
this is without conviction so for those
43:53
who don’t know what civil asset
43:54
forfeiture is this is the police this is
43:55
the government
43:56
taking your money and property because
43:59
they think you shouldn’t have it
44:00
or that you might might be doing
44:02
something illegal with it or might have
44:03
gotten it from illegal gains
44:05
without a trial without an indictment or
44:08
without even a formal
44:10
accusation of a crime they just take it
44:12
from you because
44:13
it looks a little shifty and and it it
44:15
violates every concept of due process
44:18
i have no idea how is it how it has not
44:20
been considered
44:21
a total violation of your of your fifth
44:24
amendment right
44:25
frankly of your first amendment right
44:26
because they’re they’re taking away your
44:28
ability to be able to
44:29
express yourself and and do things
44:31
because they’re taking your money from
44:33
you
44:33
they’re violating and it’s a violation
44:34
of your second amendment right if they
44:35
take any guns
44:36
in that they think was you know part of
44:38
the commission of a crime this is
44:39
basically the
44:40
violation of almost every aspect of the
44:42
bill of rights and
44:43
and you know so so let’s talk about your
44:46
goals
44:47
to what your specific legislation is to
44:49
fight against this
44:50
yep on civil asset forfeiture
44:52
specifically
44:54
on all these things but we can start
44:55
with civil forfeiture okay well we got
44:57
four civil asset forfeiture bills so uh
45:00
currently if you um are
45:04
going to start the process of trying to
45:05
get your property back when you weren’t
45:07
charged with crime
45:08
um you have to pay a 350
45:12
bond because of course it makes sense
45:14
that they took your property
45:15
and they’re not saying you did anything
45:17
wrong with it but in order for you to
45:19
get it back you have to pay the money
45:21
um so we we have a bill we have a bill
45:24
that would get rid of the bond
45:26
uh in its entirety and that one is
45:29
very likely to sail right through okay
45:32
pick the right fight on that one we
45:33
really think that one’s going to go
45:34
right through
45:36
we have a another bill that addresses
45:40
attorneys fees
45:41
because again sometimes these things can
45:43
drag out and they can be
45:44
costly uh the way it works in tennessee
45:47
is
45:48
um there’s a cap on the reimbursement so
45:51
the organization that forfeited the
45:54
proper
45:54
property the law enforcement agency that
45:56
forfeited the property is responsible
45:58
for reimbursing the
46:00
the legal expense to fight the case uh
46:03
up to three thousand dollars so
46:05
basically you got about
46:06
you know a month’s worth of work out of
46:08
a lawyer and if it goes longer than that
46:10
you’re
46:10
kind of in trouble and you’re paying it
46:12
on your own right so
46:14
we think that getting rid of the cap
46:16
would uh
46:18
disincentivize um the forfeiting agency
46:21
from dragging these things out
46:24
until the person does not have the means
46:26
to fight anymore
46:27
and capitulates uh and would incentivize
46:31
them
46:31
to get these things over and settled
46:34
fast
46:35
and get people’s stuff back in the cases
46:38
that they should have it back
46:40
pretty basic stuff yeah and then we’ve
46:42
and then we’ve got you know
46:43
uh criminal conviction bill which is a
46:46
lot more broad
46:47
it’s kind of the the silver bullet so to
46:49
speak it’s a little bit more
46:50
it addresses more equitable sharing yep
46:53
uh the level
46:54
of uh certainty that a crime had
46:56
happened
46:57
currently you have to have a
46:58
preponderance of evidence which is a 51
47:01
threshold i think maybe they did
47:02
something wrong or they were going to do
47:04
something wrong
47:05
whereas uh this bill would change it to
47:08
uh
47:09
uh clear and convincing evidence which
47:11
is which is why it’s
47:12
civil that’s why they call it civil
47:15
asset forfeiture because if it were a
47:16
criminal it would have to be
47:18
without beyond a reasonable doubt but
47:20
it’s not we’re not doing anything
47:22
criminal law here
47:23
we’re just taking everything from
47:24
someone we think is a criminal but we’re
47:26
doing it
47:27
civilly and then that way we only have
47:29
to go through the preponderance of the
47:30
evidence so does
47:31
it just just so because i don’t
47:32
understand the lingo here um
47:34
is this basically raising it to the
47:36
level of beyond a reasonable doubt or is
47:39
it like some stop gap in between
47:41
it’s uh you better be pretty doggone
47:43
sure it’s it’s
47:44
it’s just yeah it’s in between
47:47
yeah maybe he’s doing something wrong
47:49
but we’ll go ahead and make sure he’s
47:51
not take that very says
47:53
yeah this guy is pretty obviously doing
47:55
something wrong
47:56
yeah all right and then the last bill
47:58
that we’re working on this one also i
47:59
think is a pretty good shot of getting
48:01
through this year is a reporting bill
48:02
and this one’s pretty important because
48:04
you know spike like
48:06
not many reporting bills they’re very
48:08
boring right not many reporting bills
48:09
are fought
48:10
by massive lobbying institutions this is
48:12
one of the few bills that we’ve actually
48:13
seen
48:14
law enforcement come out to fight and
48:16
the reason that is is because in
48:17
tennessee the department of safety
48:19
doesn’t have to report
48:20
to the public how many times a
48:22
forfeiture resulted in a criminal
48:24
conviction
48:25
so it kind of detaches those two things
48:27
so you can maybe know some general
48:29
information about forfeitures but you
48:30
really have no way to identify
48:32
how many times it resulted in actually a
48:33
closed case or like a charge
48:35
so this bill of lafferty’s yeah laffer
48:37
is bringing in the house it’s going to
48:39
basically require the department of
48:41
safety
48:41
to inform the public every time a bill
48:43
results or a
48:44
seizure results in a criminal condition
48:48
yeah it does seem like a no-brainer but
48:51
in tennessee there’s that we don’t have
48:53
a unified court system
48:55
uh which means everybody communicates
48:57
and takes down information in different
48:58
ways
48:59
uh so it makes the information hard to
49:01
track in fairness
49:03
right so there’s there is no
49:06
justification
49:07
for for divorcing the the because if
49:10
here’s and here’s actually there is a
49:12
justification more than likely the vast
49:14
majority of these they never even bother
49:16
prosecuting much less having any
49:17
conviction they took it from you that’s
49:19
all they wanted they wanted the money
49:20
now go on your way and don’t ever come
49:21
around to tennessee again
49:23
that’s what they want right that that’ll
49:25
teach you to be a poor person with money
49:27
and and that’s very scary but by not
49:31
reporting the
49:32
that fact then it allows them to go well
49:34
this is how we’re stopping dangerous
49:36
criminals from being able
49:37
they have correct they need to be
49:39
correct the whole absence of information
49:42
kind of gives them the plausible
49:43
deniability and so we want to take that
49:45
away from them because
49:47
you know i think that if the data was
49:48
there it would show a compelling case to
49:50
say what you said we don’t know that for
49:51
sure right we can’t make a claim
49:53
i mean it’s very possible it says the
49:55
opposite but we need to know
49:56
exactly the public needs to know and if
49:58
it is being abused then
50:00
you know we can’t we can’t know if it’s
50:01
being abused if it’s not in the light
50:03
right so we got to bring that stuff
50:04
right um i mean you definitely shouldn’t
50:07
have to pay you get your stuff back so
50:09
the bond in the attorney
50:10
doesn’t a no-brainer oh yeah and then
50:13
the reporting bill hopefully we can find
50:15
a way to
50:17
effectively track this information so
50:19
that we know what kind of an issue we
50:21
actually have in a real life skill
50:22
because
50:22
on average over the last i know three
50:25
five years
50:26
um tennessee has confiscated somewhere
50:28
in the neighborhood of fifteen to
50:29
eighteen million dollars
50:30
through civil forfeiture and you know we
50:34
don’t know if a dime has been
50:35
uh a a a
50:39
attached to a criminal conviction or if
50:42
97 of it has uh we just don’t know
50:46
we have no idea we have no idea i
50:47
suspect it’s closer to the dime than it
50:49
is to the 97 percent
50:51
but we don’t know we don’t we don’t know
50:53
until until they uh
50:54
until it’s being reported so and then so
50:57
those are all good things
50:59
and then the final thing here is support
51:01
for small business now
51:02
actually what spike not to cut you off
51:05
one more item on
51:06
on criminal justice reform we’re really
51:08
heavy on on civil forfeiture
51:10
but we’re also working on a bill and
51:12
i’ll make this brief for jury
51:13
nullification
51:14
or contract oh no let’s yeah no you take
51:16
as much time as you want to talk about
51:18
this okay so this is this is a great
51:20
constitutional practice again i’m sure
51:22
many of your listeners know about it but
51:23
the practice of jury nullification it
51:25
goes back to the before the constitution
51:27
the magnitude
51:28
so it’s the idea that you know you have
51:30
two million people think jurors have two
51:32
pathways right you either have to make
51:33
somebody guilty or not guilty
51:35
but what you don’t know is you can
51:36
actually choose to acquit as a juror
51:38
anyone
51:38
so let’s say you got 80 year old grandma
51:40
she’s in tennessee where
51:41
you know weed is is the devil’s lettuce
51:44
and it’s illegal
51:45
she’s smoking it because she’s she’s got
51:47
cancer and she’s trying to get some food
51:49
down during chemo
51:50
she goes in front of a jury uh it’s very
51:53
clear
51:53
that she’s broken the law right it’s
51:55
very clear all the evidence is there
51:57
the jury at that point can say no this
51:59
law is applied unjustly
52:00
and choose to acquit her the problem is
52:03
in tennessee
52:04
if you’re a juror uh you’re
52:05
systematically screened from juries if
52:07
you’re
52:07
uh if you know of your rights um so this
52:10
bill and martin daniel brought this bill
52:12
is one of our favorite reps in the house
52:13
a couple years ago we’re bringing yeah
52:15
former reps we’re bringing
52:16
we’re bringing this bill back the bill
52:18
would basically require a judge
52:20
to inform a jury of the right to nullify
52:23
the law if requested by a defense
52:24
attorney during a case
52:26
so in many different types of cases
52:27
especially cases like the one i just
52:29
mentioned a second ago
52:30
you know defense attorney might use that
52:31
argument say hey listen this is this is
52:33
an unjust law it shouldn’t be applied
52:35
um and right now if if that case is
52:37
trying to make everyone in the jury gets
52:38
kicked off if um
52:40
if somebody in the jury expresses
52:42
expresses that okay so
52:44
no it can be correct so you basically
52:46
just have to lie
52:47
and be like i don’t think they did it
52:49
and just so they can still remove you
52:51
during the deliberation if you express
52:53
that
52:54
look this is one of those things that
52:55
it’s kind of crazy to try to pass a law
52:58
on
52:58
because the first thing you have to do
53:00
when you’re talking to a legislator
53:02
is explain that this law exists
53:06
it’s a thing everybody can do it
53:08
everywhere in the united states it’s
53:10
been upheld a million times
53:12
uh it’s 100 legit it’s legit in every
53:14
country that has jury trials
53:16
this is how juries work and always have
53:19
uh
53:19
and it’s it’s hard to for people to
53:22
grasp that concept
53:23
and it is a double-edged sword you know
53:26
they’re bad people that have been let
53:29
off uh
53:30
by juries and there are good people that
53:32
have not been acquitted
53:33
or that have been acquitted by juries uh
53:36
so it’s a double-edged sword there’s no
53:38
question about that you have to be real
53:39
about that
53:40
um but in in in practice i think that we
53:45
have to
53:46
live in a society where we demand a
53:49
certain level of
53:50
excellence out of society and in
53:53
in order to encourage them to achieve it
53:56
you know i mean
53:57
it’s a common coaching practice you
53:59
demand the most out of your players
54:01
and they give you the most and all of a
54:03
sudden they know how good they are
54:05
and you can it’s
54:08
when we knew that this was a thing and
54:10
it was not an uncommon practice
54:12
people were taking pride in the way that
54:14
their system worked they understood that
54:16
their job on the jury was to make sure
54:17
their community states
54:19
states they stayed safe from actual bad
54:22
actors and that they didn’t punish
54:25
people
54:26
that didn’t need to be punished and
54:29
that’s
54:30
really all we’re trying to look for is a
54:32
a way to get back to that
54:34
i think that participation in the jury
54:36
helps people understand how the legal
54:38
system works and
54:39
the value of the jury itself
54:42
the i’ve heard the argument before from
54:45
the anti
54:46
uh jury nullification side that well
54:47
this could lead to bad people
54:49
you know uh getting off because they’re
54:51
able to manipulate the jury
54:53
that can happen now you can manipulate
54:56
jurors and and threaten jurors and they
54:58
can just they can just vote not guilty
55:00
they can just say i don’t think they did
55:01
it
55:01
i don’t think they did it not guilty not
55:03
guilty not guilty jury nullification is
55:05
the ability of
55:06
jurors and even of attorneys to argue
55:10
this is a bad law or it is being it is
55:12
being implemented
55:13
poorly because of this specific decision
55:15
and empowering the jurors to choose
55:17
whether or not to believe that or not
55:19
who knows those jurors may go well you
55:20
know what granny shouldn’t have been
55:22
smoking weed i don’t care that it’s
55:23
helping her it’s against the law they
55:25
can still do that
55:26
but they at least have the ability to
55:27
hear that argument that you know
55:29
it’s not just what the law is exactly
55:31
it’s a it’s the and like you said this
55:33
predates the constitution
55:35
this is as long as there have been uh
55:38
jury of your peer trials which like you
55:40
said started with the magna carta
55:42
this started with saying we demand the
55:43
ability to be able to as
55:45
as back then as subjects but now as
55:47
citizens huge difference here of course
55:49
uh as citizens to be able to decide
55:51
whether or not someone’s guilty
55:53
presumed in that is whether or not they
55:55
should even be tried for such a crime
55:57
and and you know i think it’s it’s you
55:59
know foundational to
56:01
any idea behind a system of of of
56:04
justice
56:05
i mean i mean the founding fathers were
56:07
clear about the value of jury trials and
56:10
uh went to great lengths to express the
56:12
value
56:13
of the jury box giving feedback
56:16
to the legislator on what laws they
56:19
deemed
56:19
tolerable in their society and we’re
56:22
supposed to be a nation to build on
56:24
self-governance
56:25
i i realize that ship has long sailed
56:28
but
56:28
don’t tell me you’re a constitutionalist
56:30
unless you actually believe in the ideas
56:32
of the guys that put the constitution
56:34
together
56:34
i mean the reality of the situation is
56:37
we’re supposed to participate in our
56:39
government and uh
56:40
this is a way that we’re supposed to be
56:42
giving that feedback to them
56:44
and they’ve systematically tried to make
56:46
sure that there’s no way to mention it
56:48
in the courthouse
56:50
yeah the jury should be arguably either
56:53
a fourth branch of government or a
56:55
second leg within that third branch of
56:57
government the
56:58
the final people’s veto against oh okay
57:01
you’re not going to make this legal or
57:02
you’re not going to get rid of this law
57:04
then we’re just going to nullify it
57:05
every single time it’s in front of us
57:06
because it’s a bs law and we don’t like
57:08
reach for each man that’s why that’s why
57:10
they put it in there that’s what it was
57:11
supposed
57:12
to be at the beginning of the inception
57:13
yeah i mean the reason that juries came
57:15
around is because they do
57:16
they were sick of the government setting
57:18
the laws and forcing the laws
57:20
and ruling on the decisions and the the
57:23
whole point of juries is to put somebody
57:25
impartial in there to make the actual
57:27
decision
57:28
right and we need to make make sure that
57:30
they understand that they are allowed to
57:32
be impartial
57:33
and make the decision that serves
57:35
justice that’s
57:36
that’s the bottom line i am very very
57:39
happy to hear
57:40
that you guys are pushing that in
57:41
tennessee that makes me very happy
57:43
because yes that is a that is a huge
57:45
thing it doesn’t get nearly enough
57:47
attention
57:48
go ahead honestly i mean to be level
57:51
though
57:51
this bill um it’s a retread of a bill a
57:55
couple years back it’s a very minor
57:57
pinprick that really allows us to start
57:59
this conversation on this
58:01
and try to figure out where the palette
58:03
is
58:04
in the legislature to be able to
58:08
get actual things done on this going
58:10
forward uh
58:11
all this bill does is require a defense
58:14
or require a judge oh i’m sorry yeah
58:17
require a judge to form a jury yeah yeah
58:19
sorry so yeah it’s very simple it’s good
58:22
if it’s a good foot in the door
58:24
yes it is agreed i agree um i do want to
58:27
get to small business though because
58:28
that’s what i want to rock and roll
58:29
yeah let’s talk about that okay
58:32
so you know here’s the k i’m sure that
58:34
we agree on this one
58:36
is justin leaving oh okay he’s like he’s
58:39
so
58:39
passionate about it i’m just going to
58:40
leave anyway just leaned off the screen
58:42
the same way you need to get a drink
58:45
so uh no at a high level 2020 we just
58:49
got through like one of the craziest
58:50
years
58:51
um in 2020 we experienced with these
58:54
covid lockdowns
58:55
probably the biggest wealth transfer
58:57
from small and medium-sized businesses
59:00
to multinational corporations in the
59:01
history of the world
59:03
um all these massive corporations were
59:05
allowed to stay open
59:06
march is essential while these small
59:08
business owners um
59:10
and you know independent uh business
59:11
owners were forced to stop working
59:14
and basically told to stay home under
59:16
you know force of the rest
59:17
of the government yeah so we we saw that
59:20
in tennessee we had over 1200 small
59:22
businesses closed permanently
59:24
um the most affected community was might
59:26
was the minority community and business
59:27
owners they were affected
59:28
disproportionately more than anyone else
59:30
and we believe that covet shutdowns
59:33
didn’t work
59:34
international studies show that
59:35
voluntary measures are just as effective
59:38
if not more effective than mandatory
59:40
lockdown so
59:41
you know i think the science is settled
59:42
on that um so what we’re trying to do is
59:44
two things so we’ve got a bill
59:46
that would uh restrict the governor from
59:49
being able to deem a business as
59:50
essential or non-essential
59:52
so basically say hey you know you have
59:54
no business deciding who’s essential and
59:56
who’s not essential that’s not the
59:57
state’s decision
59:58
that’s we like that because but i mean
60:01
there’s still the theory there that
60:03
you know the question you have to ask
60:05
well does that mean i can say we’re
60:06
shutting down bars
60:08
yeah there’s still or there’s still run
60:09
arounds uh for that bill like
60:11
there’s still ways they get around it so
60:12
that’s why we have the second bill
60:14
and the second bill is a bill that
60:15
focuses on enforcement so it basically
60:17
restricts law enforcement from being
60:19
able to
60:20
be used oh yeah being used to um you
60:22
know enforce the shutdown order if it
60:24
restricts
60:24
your right to gather a free assembly
60:27
like if they’re
60:28
shutting down church services um if
60:30
they’re um
60:31
10 people yeah exactly there’s 10 people
60:33
at your thanksgiving dinner
60:34
uh they can’t restrict travel right um
60:37
and you know they can’t go and
60:38
do four shutdowns of businesses so i
60:41
think those two bills together would
60:42
create a an environment that would make
60:43
sure hey 2020 that’s not going to happen
60:45
again
60:46
my opinion on it is that the state
60:49
should operate as an entity to provide
60:50
information
60:51
and best practices and then people
60:53
should be allowed to take that
60:54
information and make the best decision
60:55
for their lives
60:56
it did not save lives to do these
60:58
mandatory lockdowns that’s been shown
61:01
so all it did was take money and suck it
61:03
out of small business owners and give it
61:04
to big
61:05
corporations like target and walmart and
61:06
all these other companies that aren’t
61:08
even based in the city or don’t even do
61:09
business where you know
61:10
don’t have their products if if only the
61:12
world health organization had said
61:14
last summer that long-term lockdowns
61:17
don’t work
61:18
that they lead to uh because you cannot
61:21
effectively
61:22
keep everyone away from each other uh
61:24
for long periods of time without without
61:26
causing massive harm so instead you
61:28
don’t really because
61:29
lockdown is the wrong word for this we
61:31
weren’t locked in our homes
61:33
that would be the only effective way to
61:35
stop the spread of highly virulent
61:36
pathogens make everyone stay
61:38
in their houses for at least two or
61:39
three weeks if you were able to somehow
61:41
do that which you can’t
61:42
then yeah you could stop the slow you
61:44
could stop the spread of covid
61:46
but you’d also cause exponentially worse
61:49
harm
61:50
than you could cause the if you infected
61:52
everyone with covet at the same time
61:54
if everyone were stuck in their house
61:55
for two weeks you would
61:57
the farms would go fallow we’d run out
61:59
of food the yeah
62:01
we’d have no energy people would be
62:03
dying from preventable illnesses because
62:05
the hospitals would be shut down
62:06
uh you’d have and people would
62:08
eventually leave their homes to start
62:09
rampaging their neighbors homes because
62:11
they run out of
62:12
food uh you know very quickly you would
62:14
see you know one out of every probably
62:15
three people would die if you if you try
62:17
to make everyone stay in there
62:18
so because you can’t do that instead you
62:20
do this weird hodgepodge where you say
62:22
uh well you have to stay in your home uh
62:25
and you can only go outside
62:26
if it’s for essential reasons um but
62:29
also
62:30
you can’t go to a small business like a
62:33
furniture store where there’s like five
62:34
of you in the same building because
62:36
that could be dangerous but let’s all go
62:38
to target at yeah let’s go to walmart
62:40
hundreds of us at a time it’s totally
62:42
safe because you’re wearing a mask that
62:44
reduces
62:45
uh the amount of expectorants that
62:46
you’re putting out there by about 10 15
62:49
so you can all huddle together at
62:50
walmart you’re perfectly fine all
62:52
hundreds of you at a time and we’re also
62:53
going to create a curfew of when you can
62:55
come and go so that that way a bottle
62:56
next
62:56
even more make sure you’re all nice and
62:58
close together for your safety
63:00
the whole nonsense behind this and as
63:03
you said it was a massive wealth
63:05
transfer
63:05
not just from small you know we’re
63:07
talking specifically small businesses to
63:09
large multinational ones
63:10
but from poor countries that relied on
63:12
tourism to
63:14
wealthy i mean this was a huge giveaway
63:17
from the poor
63:18
to the rich uh and and we’re not gonna
63:21
know the long-term impact of it
63:23
for many years to come the amounts well
63:25
affect people’s lives
63:26
and livelihoods for years absolutely man
63:29
the amount of wealth that the one
63:30
percent continue consolidated during
63:31
that period of time was
63:33
exponentially more than any other period
63:34
so i mean
63:36
no matter what side of this political
63:38
spectrum you’re on there’s things to
63:39
hate about shutdowns
63:41
right so it’s it we just believe that’s
63:44
a consensus and the good thing is we do
63:46
see
63:46
uh kind of a a growing political mandate
63:49
to do something about it uh we don’t
63:52
know what that’s going to be yet but
63:53
we’re advocating strongly for those two
63:55
pieces of legislation legislation in the
63:56
hopes that um you know they’ll take
63:59
they’ll take the full honor approach and
64:00
at least stop the enforcement so that if
64:02
we do get some
64:03
crazy guy in the federal government or
64:05
somebody even a crazy governor
64:07
it’s not even a problem because they
64:08
don’t have the powers right they don’t
64:09
believe her power to make it defang them
64:12
yeah
64:12
yeah let me ask you something what is
64:14
the i i don’t even know if you push this
64:16
out there do you have an idea of
64:17
what the appetite is in the legislature
64:19
to even look at this type of thing
64:21
i’m i would say that the one
64:24
on essential versus non-essential has
64:27
about a 75 percent chance of passage
64:30
i would say that the the
64:33
stronger bill um about
64:36
preventing law enforcement from
64:38
enforcing these things is probably
64:41
me in the 40s
64:45
that’s still that’s still somewhat
64:46
hopeful but but honestly saying there’s
64:48
a chance
64:49
yeah might be a little bit high on that
64:52
one
64:53
i mean i i think i don’t think it’s
64:55
going to get anywhere but i’ve talked to
64:57
a lot of people that would
64:59
would support it but the thing is it’s
65:01
got to get through a subcommittee
65:03
and when you know spike i think one
65:05
thing that we’ve learned being involved
65:06
in the state legislature the last
65:08
you know what five years or so is that
65:11
you know half the battle isn’t the bill
65:13
itself as you see
65:15
the nonsense that we have to deal with
65:17
uh among the legislators
65:18
it’s the education opportunities and
65:20
it’s the accountability that
65:22
kind of comes out when these people have
65:23
to go out and make a public stance for
65:25
or against these things yeah yeah
65:27
yeah you know that is a snowball effect
65:30
that will
65:30
in you know over the next couple years
65:32
either may sometimes make these people
65:34
lose their seats
65:35
uh it will you know your political will
65:37
gets created after you cycle after cycle
65:39
kind of continuing to push these things
65:40
so we’re not going anywhere that’s our
65:42
that’s our long-term strategy
65:44
the same as we talked about for ballot
65:45
access it’s the same for all these bills
65:48
and whatever our members decide to
65:49
prioritize for us next year
65:51
i i think it’s great what you guys are
65:53
doing i you know it is
65:56
however we try to do this and i talk to
65:58
people across the country about this
66:00
it feel it can feel hopeless at times
66:02
whether you’re pushing for a libertarian
66:04
party to do
66:05
to you know to make gains at the local
66:07
and state and federal level
66:09
whether you’re pushing for individual
66:10
policy proposals because
66:12
all of the or most of the power the vast
66:14
virtually all of the power
66:16
is vested in the creation and
66:19
entrenchment and growth
66:20
of that power structure and so you are
66:23
at
66:23
a immediate inherent disadvantage the
66:26
only thing that you can get an
66:28
advantage of is because your idea is
66:30
right to get the kind of numerical power
66:32
in in the vote in the number of voters
66:34
and and supporters behind it that they
66:36
simply cannot ignore it
66:38
but as you see as you saw from that that
66:41
you know
66:41
a bit of a video that we played earlier
66:44
they could just pretend that it failed
66:46
i mean there’s a lot of stuff they can
66:47
do so it can feel hopeless
66:49
here’s what i want to encourage you to
66:51
with right now
66:52
and i say this all the time if you look
66:54
at every major
66:56
uh and and you both already know this
66:57
but i’m saying this as much for the
66:59
people that are watching this as i am to
67:00
you but i want you to hear it as well
67:02
every if you look at every single major
67:04
movement that has resulted in a in a
67:06
drastic and dramatic positive change for
67:09
people for society and so forth
67:11
whatever we’re talking about ending
67:12
slavery uh uh
67:14
ending wars ending genocides any of
67:18
these things
67:18
almost always started with a sometimes
67:22
one or two or a small handful of people
67:25
who knew that the odds were completely
67:27
stacked against them
67:28
and who just didn’t care that
67:31
they knew that the only alternative was
67:34
to just shrug their shoulders and give
67:36
up and say well there’s nothing we can
67:38
do about it i guess we just got to live
67:39
with it and that was unacceptable to
67:41
them and so they just kept pushing
67:42
forward
67:43
and it felt sometimes like they were
67:45
yelling into the abyss with no one
67:47
listening or you know three other people
67:48
going yeah i agree and you say hey
67:50
thanks mom
67:51
but you know you you you you push you
67:54
that you and and those who came before
67:56
you who have been successful in this
67:58
you push forward the three people turns
68:01
to 10 people turns to 20 people
68:03
you’re already even in the legislature
68:05
with people that are agreeing with you
68:06
on these things
68:07
and before you know it you’ve created a
68:08
snowball effect where you’re able to
68:11
implement incredible things in a in what
68:14
seems like
68:15
an impossibly quick period of time uh
68:18
and so i just encourage you to keep
68:19
going at this
68:20
because you’re going to have gains
68:22
you’re going to get people on your
68:24
side we say this a lot in the
68:25
libertarian party you may not win the
68:27
election but you’re going to win voters
68:28
you’re going to win people over who are
68:30
now going to be the next level of
68:31
activists
68:32
so i i greatly greatly encourage you to
68:34
do this
68:35
and i am so uh honored and happy that
68:37
you were on the show
68:38
before i let you go i want to give you
68:40
two a chance to say
68:41
whatever you feel like you didn’t get a
68:43
chance to stay yet to plug anything
68:45
that’s upcoming
68:46
let people know how they can reach out
68:47
to you you guys have the floor uh joshua
68:49
echol and justin cornett the floor is
68:52
yours
68:53
thank you spike so i’ll say one thing
68:55
you know in the last month and a half
68:57
we have seen crazy amounts of excitement
69:00
and growth around this project
69:01
we’re extremely excited to get this off
69:03
the ground we need your help
69:04
obviously your listeners help you can
69:07
join our website at 4ltn.org
69:09
act get on our mailing list and learn
69:12
more
69:12
you can also donate at 4ltn.org donate
69:16
we’ve got a twitter at 4ltn we’ve got
69:19
facebook at 4l tennessee uh you know
69:22
we’re only as effective as the members
69:23
that really drive
69:25
our organization so we need your help
69:27
very badly in the state of tennessee and
69:28
even if you’re not in tennessee we love
69:29
your help
69:30
and and we do want to spread this to
69:31
other states we need to prove the model
69:34
here make sure it can work accept the
69:36
culture
69:37
you know and develop all this and get it
69:40
out on paper
69:41
and as soon as we can and as soon as we
69:43
can we have the means to move forward
69:45
you know we want for all california and
69:48
for all new hampshire and for
69:50
all missouri and for all florida
69:53
and maybe even eventually for all
69:55
america i
69:56
i mean we
70:00
we really think that we got something
70:01
here and that um
70:03
we can we can make something of this if
70:05
we can just work together on it
70:07
and i finally i’d like to say thank you
70:10
for having us on yes
70:13
and spike thank you for everything
70:14
you’ve done in the last year for the
70:15
liberty movement
70:16
yeah really yeah it’s been inspiring to
70:18
say the least one day we hope to grow up
70:20
be like you
70:23
i appreciate that and i’m not going
70:25
anywhere i i was honored to be able to
70:27
do everything i could last year
70:28
and it was always with the idea that i
70:29
hope to leverage any amount of notoriety
70:31
i could from last year
70:33
to keep pushing forward and uh and keep
70:35
spreading the message of liberty around
70:38
around the country i think it is good
70:39
when we get together and i like that you
70:41
guys agree with me on this
70:42
uh in fact it was actually heading to
70:44
your state convention i have a little
70:46
bit of a story
70:47
uh heading to your state convention back
70:49
in 2020 i actually drove there i have no
70:51
idea why but i drove there
70:53
and uh and it’s a it’s a 10 hour trip
70:56
from myrtle beach to uh to nashville
70:58
or yeah 10 hour trip and driving there
71:02
it struck me that i was driving several
71:05
hours crossing
71:06
you know going by tens of thousands of
71:08
people on the road you know i stopped a
71:10
couple times and there were hundreds of
71:11
people
71:12
this was before the lockdowns you know
71:13
hundreds of people at the rest stop that
71:15
i went to
71:16
uh you know hundreds of people at the
71:18
hotel uh you know all these times that i
71:20
was around hundreds or thousands or even
71:22
tens of thousands of people
71:23
and i was going into a room a large room
71:26
but a conference room
71:27
to talk with dozens of libertarians that
71:30
already all agreed with me on everything
71:33
right yeah and it struck me that yes
71:35
that’s important we need to organize we
71:37
need to keep each other
71:38
uh excited we need to work together on
71:41
on things that we need to do
71:42
there is an entire really a planet but
71:45
there’s an entire country of people
71:47
who the moment that they hear our ideas
71:50
even if they don’t sign on to everything
71:52
right off the bat when they hear them in
71:53
a way
71:54
that speaks to them where they are and
71:56
connects with them
71:57
and they go oh that’s why everything
72:01
sucks okay yeah i’m with you guys right
72:03
now or at least i’m with you on this
72:05
specific thing
72:06
you can very quickly turn people around
72:08
our major
72:10
hurdle is just getting our ideas and our
72:12
values and our proposals and our
72:14
policies and our common sense reforms
72:16
in front of people and that’s what you
72:17
all are doing i am honored and grateful
72:19
that you are doing it
72:20
yeah thank you and i appreciate it
72:24
hey thank you we will definitely have
72:25
you on again in the future
72:27
if you’ll have it and uh and i greatly
72:29
appreciate it
72:30
stick around i’m going to talk with you
72:31
guys during the outro uh but folks
72:33
thanks you so much again for tuning into
72:35
this episode
72:36
of my fellow americans uh we will be
72:37
back on facebook next week
72:39
uh hopefully and uh and we’ll see you
72:41
there uh in the meantime uh be sure
72:44
uh this weekend i will be in uh atlanta
72:47
georgia
72:48
uh actually hateville but but it’s in
72:50
atlanta uh
72:51
for the uh georgia libertarian party
72:54
convention
72:54
uh this year uh this uh what is that the
72:57
12th and the thirteenth
72:59
uh i will be there um and then i’ll be
73:01
doing i’ll be at a
73:02
special liberty uh dinner on the 15th uh
73:06
more
73:06
more information on that or the 14th
73:08
more info on that coming out
73:09
go to lpga.org to find out how you can
73:12
join the convention
73:13
i’d love to meet you in person i’m going
73:15
to be giving a speech there and doing a
73:16
panel with
73:17
chase oliver and shane hazel uh we’re
73:19
going to be doing a lot of fun stuff
73:20
there there’s going to be a
73:22
gala and a party and all sorts of fun
73:24
stuff so come and hang out with us
73:25
go to lpgeorgia.org we will see you back
73:28
here next week
73:29
on tuesday at 8 pm for the muddy waters
73:31
of freedom where matt wright and i parse
73:32
through the week’s events like the sweet
73:34
little 20 20 wonder boys
73:35
that we are and then uh we will join me
73:38
right back here
73:39
uh on wednesday i see i always forget to
73:41
pull this up every time
73:43
almost every time i forget to gosh here
73:46
we go
73:47
calendar uh almost every single time i
73:50
forget
73:51
next week i will have on
73:54
wednesday i will have my guest david
73:57
preston
73:58
david preston will be my guest we’ll be
73:59
talking about uh education reform next
74:02
week right here
74:03
same spike place same spike time for
74:05
another jam-packed
74:07
absolutely magnificent episode of my
74:10
fellow americans
74:10
folks thanks again for tuning in i’m
74:12
spike cohen and you
74:14
are the power god bless guys
74:31
[Music]
75:00
[Music]
75:02
[Applause]
75:05
you can’t make a change
75:15
[Music]
75:23
we might just unite them come together
75:26
become hybrid at the least slightly
75:28
like-minded
75:29
indeed the life i’ve lived brings light
75:31
to kindness
75:33
all you need is a sign put a cease to
75:35
the crimes
75:36
put an ease of the minds like mine
75:39
sometimes
75:39
darkness is all i find you know what
75:41
they say about an eye for a night in a
75:43
time when the blob is a blood who am i
75:45
to deny would cry when a loved one dies
75:47
i recognize that body outside with the
75:48
holes in the body that was alive
76:18
who would want to raise
76:19
[Music]
76:26
tell me why
76:38
[Music]
76:44
make a change
76:51
[Music]
76:56
we will make
77:03
[Music]
77:11
[Music]
77:27
you