(((My Fellow Americans))) #86: Jason Spyres

00:47
i’ll be
00:48
buried in my grave
00:54
before i become a slave
00:57
[Music]
01:10
is
01:15
[Music]
01:22
but it seems like since that
01:27
[Music]
01:38
change
01:42
[Music]
01:49
before i become
01:57
[Music]
02:06
is
02:09
[Music]
02:18
but it seems like since that day
02:22
[Music]
02:34
change
02:40
[Music]
02:48
and now oh from beautiful myrtle beach
02:52
south carolina
02:54
you’re watching my fellow americans
02:57
with your host spike cullen
03:01
yes yes it’s me
03:05
it’s me it must be wednesday because
03:07
we’re here
03:11
for the absolute work factor
03:15
donald trump is finally not president
03:17
miracle
03:18
how would we know that you were happy
03:19
that donald trump was no longer
03:21
president if you didn’t keep clapping
03:23
welcome to my fellow americans i
03:24
am literally spike cohen folks uh
03:28
donald trump is no longer president
03:30
unfortunately the news kind of goes
03:32
downhill from there
03:34
but i’m glad that you’re here this is a
03:36
muddied waters media production
03:38
share this right now the last thing that
03:40
i want
03:41
is for your closest friends and loved
03:44
ones to miss out
03:45
on a roughly hour-long libertarian
03:47
podcast
03:48
on a wednesday evening be sure to give
03:50
the gift of spike cohen today
03:53
kids love it we are on facebook we are
03:55
on youtube
03:56
instagram anchor twitter periscope
03:59
itunes google play
04:01
float twitch we’re on all the uh
04:04
podcasting platforms we’re everywhere
04:07
anywhere on the internet
04:08
muddy waters media check us out like us
04:10
follow us five star us
04:12
if it’s on youtube hit the bell if you
04:14
don’t hit the bell
04:15
then your phone won’t blow up with
04:17
notifications every time we go live
04:19
and i would hate for you to miss that so
04:21
be sure to hit the bell and share this
04:23
right now i already said that
04:24
this episode is brought to you by the
04:26
libertarian party waffle
04:28
house caucus the fastest growing waffle
04:30
related caucus
04:31
in not just the libertarian party but in
04:33
any party
04:34
in any country on any planet
04:37
be sure to join us at the facebook group
04:39
libertarian party
04:41
waffle house caucus and be sure to buy
04:43
our buttons you can’t be
04:44
an actual member of the caucus unless
04:46
you buy the buttons at the muddy water
04:48
store moneywatersmedia.com
04:50
click on the store and you will see the
04:52
buttons this episode is also brought to
04:54
you by
04:55
nug of knowledge smokable cbd products
04:58
uh nug of knowledge is not your everyday
05:00
cbd supplier first of all they’re
05:02
selling smokables
05:03
second of all a portion of the profits
05:05
go to help end the war on drugs and
05:07
we’ll be talking tonight about
05:08
how important that is it also some of
05:11
the profits go towards a compassionate
05:13
use program
05:14
that donates medicinal hemp products to
05:16
veterans and other people with
05:17
disabilities who cannot afford
05:19
these natural remedies many who use this
05:22
product say that it helps
05:23
with joint pain and stress relief or
05:25
even a much-needed pick-me-up
05:27
be careful because that green one isn’t
05:29
legal in every state
05:30
uh but it is legal in many other states
05:32
uh be sure to use the checkout code
05:34
spike for 10 percent off of the
05:37
smokeables this episode is also brought
05:39
to you of course
05:40
by personal injury attorney chris
05:42
reynolds uh in
05:43
if you are in the tampa bay area of
05:45
florida and you find yourself
05:47
injured personally be sure to contact
05:49
chris reynolds at chrisreynoldslaw.com
05:52
and he will get you money
05:55
probably i i can’t guarantee you’ll get
05:57
you money but he’ll try
05:59
he’s a lawyer that’s what he does
06:02
chrisreynoldslaw.com
06:03
uh this episode is brought to you by oh
06:05
the intro and outro music to this and
06:07
every episode
06:07
of my fellow americans comes from the
06:09
amazing and talented mr joe
06:11
davey that’s j-o-d-a-v-i
06:14
check him out on facebook facebook or
06:16
face cloud
06:17
go uh go to a soundcloud uh or check him
06:20
out on his bandcamp go to
06:23
joedavimusic.bandcamp.com
06:25
and uh and check him out today i’d like
06:26
to thank leblue for the oh my
06:28
water’s empty i’d like to thank lebloo
06:30
for the water that i already drank
06:33
on this episode i’m gonna have to get
06:34
water in a minute because i’m definitely
06:36
gonna need water but i’d like to thank
06:37
labour because i’ll probably be getting
06:39
another bottle of water from the blue
06:40
this
06:41
water is made in america
06:44
kosher and gluten free just like me
06:48
shout out to tehran turks’s mom and him
06:50
as always folks my guest tonight is an
06:52
absolute inspiration he was a victim of
06:55
the war on drugs
06:56
as a teenager and has turned his life
06:59
around in a major way i really don’t
07:01
want to say more because i think he can
07:03
tell his story
07:04
far better than i can ladies and
07:06
gentlemen my fellow americans
07:08
please welcome to the show mr jason
07:11
spires jason
07:12
thank you so much for coming on the show
07:14
i have been looking forward all week to
07:15
talking with you
07:17
thank you for having me on the show
07:18
spike i appreciate it
07:20
well i’m very excited to have you on and
07:22
folks be sure to chime in with your
07:24
questions and thoughts
07:25
and jason and i will tell you if you are
07:28
right or wrong now jason usually when i
07:32
have someone come on the show for the
07:33
first time
07:34
who’s the libertarian i usually ask you
07:36
how you became a libertarian but that’s
07:38
not where your story starts
07:40
as i mentioned in your intro you were a
07:42
victim of the war on drugs and that’s
07:43
really where the story starts here
07:45
how before we get started how old were
07:47
you when you when you got arrested
07:50
i was 19 years old wow and i got
07:52
arrested
07:53
yeah two days for my 21st birthday
07:56
stimulating circumstance
07:58
wow so can we talk talk to us about
08:01
what led up to you getting arrested how
08:04
did that happen
08:05
oh yeah so essentially what happened was
08:08
i was a a poor welfare ridden
08:12
kid growing up through school uh not
08:14
making excuses i’m just setting the
08:16
scene
08:17
and like i got bullied a lot in school
08:19
for not having new clothes and things
08:21
like that
08:22
and so when i turned 16 i want to get a
08:24
job and start working
08:25
to make some money and uh i interviewed
08:28
at jack in the box and they were like we
08:31
need people for the lunch shifts we
08:33
don’t really need
08:34
anybody for night shifts so i actually
08:35
ended up going on
08:37
home study so i could actually work a
08:39
job
08:40
and make money so i started making money
08:43
and so
08:44
since i was working at jack-in-the-box i
08:46
wasn’t having a lot of the high school
08:47
socialization that you’d normally have
08:50
and so around my 17th birthday i wanted
08:53
to throw a big party
08:54
my mom owned uh property had 40 acres
08:57
and i was gonna throw a big party with a
08:59
band in the back oh wait no that was my
09:01
18th birthday i’m sorry i wanted to
09:02
throw a party at my 17th birthday
09:05
and i just want to have party favors and
09:06
my buddy knew where to get a half ounce
09:08
of
09:09
low grade cannabis for 35 bucks
09:12
and it sounded like a great way to get
09:14
girls to want to come to the party
09:17
and so i i went and said okay let’s do
09:20
this
09:20
and we ended up uh i wanted to get a car
09:23
because he wanted to go to a place
09:24
called rancher to haman to get it so i
09:26
asked my mom
09:27
hey can i use your car and she said what
09:30
are you gonna do and i told her my mom
09:32
smoked pot and all kinds of stuff
09:33
so well she’s like all right so
09:36
she gives me the keys and i go to walk
09:38
out she’s like hold on hold on hold on
09:40
i’m like what she’s like here’s 10 bucks
09:42
get me some i’m out two
09:44
so i was like all right so we end up
09:46
going this wild goose chase i ended up
09:48
paying 40 bucks
09:50
for something that was like less than a
09:51
half ounce but we get it
09:54
and so the next day i talk to some
09:56
people
09:57
and i see one of the girls i’m like hey
09:59
i’m having a party night
10:01
and i didn’t even smoke pot at the time
10:03
so this is like the height of teenage
10:05
stupidity where i went and bought
10:06
something
10:07
i don’t even use to try and get you know
10:09
girls come to the party
10:11
so but i enjoyed the talk and the reason
10:14
to uh
10:15
interact with people so as i’m
10:19
as i’m smoking the girl out uh one of
10:21
the guys is like hey man hey man you
10:23
should let me get ten dollars of this
10:24
i’m out
10:26
and i was like no i’m not trying to sell
10:28
it i’m i’m just
10:29
you know it’s for the party he’s like oh
10:31
come on man i’m like no
10:32
i’m not sure it’s for the party and so
10:35
when he walks away
10:36
the girl was like hey would you sell me
10:39
ten dollars worth
10:40
and i have yet to figure it out but for
10:43
some magical reason she was able to get
10:44
me to say yes
10:46
and i sold her ten dollars worth so
10:49
then later on throughout the day that
10:52
happened again
10:53
then my buddy who helped me get the
10:55
stuff the night before it came to me is
10:56
like
10:57
hey man let me just get this small
10:58
amount for this piece
11:00
for this price and i’m like all right i
11:03
still have some
11:03
some left over for the party right so
11:06
when we get to the party that night
11:08
i still had i don’t know i’m i’m making
11:10
up a number here but like an eighth
11:11
you know i mean something left and and i
11:15
counted up the money i had and i had 35
11:16
bucks i was like well cool
11:18
this only actually cost me five bucks
11:22
but then i remembered the ten dollars
11:24
that my mother gave me
11:25
as i was going out the door so i
11:28
actually had made
11:29
five dollars with literally telling
11:31
people no
11:32
i do not want to sell this to you no i’m
11:35
not trying to sell this to you
11:37
and i i noticed two things one it was a
11:41
way to make money
11:42
but another is i enjoyed like the social
11:44
aspect of it i was important
11:46
i was the man i was the guy with the pie
11:49
and i’ve always been the type that
11:50
enjoys intention i’m enjoying being on
11:52
this podcast right now
11:54
i acknowledge that about my personal
11:56
character so
11:57
i i started selling low levels
12:01
amounts of cannabis nothing that made a
12:03
lot of money i still kept my job at jack
12:05
in a box
12:06
and then one day that my buddy came
12:10
through and wanted to get something like
12:11
dude i’m at work i can’t
12:12
i can’t do anything he said i’m gonna
12:14
come to the drive-thru i’m like how
12:15
would i ever know it’s you
12:17
he’s like i’m gonna order a jumbo jack
12:19
no meat whoever orders a jumbo jack but
12:21
no me
12:22
i’m like all right so he did it and i
12:25
threw ten dollars in the
12:26
in the bag or a ten a dime bag ten
12:30
dollars for the cannabis
12:31
i get confused on the lingo of what
12:32
people understand depending on the
12:34
audience i’m talking to
12:36
this audience knows what a dime bag is
12:38
i’m pretty sure they do too
12:39
[Laughter]
12:41
so i threw it in the bag and then it
12:43
kind of became like a thing of its own
12:44
like we were kids and we thought it was
12:46
cool hey
12:47
i’m selling it through the drive-through
12:49
and so one day
12:50
i’m sitting there in a drive-through and
12:52
i get the jumbo jack no meat
12:54
and so i go to do it and a guy pulls up
12:56
that i know and i hand him the bag
12:58
and hand me the money he hands it to the
13:01
guy in the passenger seat who had never
13:03
met before the guy in the past seat
13:06
looks in the back looks over at me and
13:08
says
13:08
good deal and then they pull off and now
13:11
i’m in the middle running drive-through
13:14
so i didn’t have time to really reflect
13:15
on that but i was like what
13:17
what just happened yep so then i go
13:19
outside
13:20
on my break and i’m starting to think
13:22
about how like
13:24
i created this rationalization that i
13:26
wasn’t really being a drug dealer out to
13:28
make money as much as just a guy that
13:30
was hooking up his friends and making
13:31
money in the process
13:32
and enjoying the social attention of it
13:34
all yep
13:36
and then i just realized that i just
13:37
sold ten dollars
13:39
of a drug to someone i don’t even know
13:42
yep
13:42
and then at that point
13:45
it’s almost ironic how it happened i’m
13:47
sitting there i’m thinking i’m sitting
13:49
in the parking lot
13:50
and i’m like am i okay with this
13:53
you know like my can my rationalization
13:55
of i’m not doing anything bad
13:57
hold up right and i’m not joking at this
14:00
point a cop
14:01
pulls up right on my feet gets out of
14:03
his car comes up to me and says hey
14:05
jason
14:05
you got any weed on you i said no man
14:08
i’m out
14:09
and i realized because it was one of my
14:10
buddies who was a cop
14:13
who i sold weed to who wasn’t trying to
14:16
book me for
14:16
he was legitimately inquiring if i had
14:18
any weed he could buy
14:20
and that’s when i was like
14:23
i just literally told a cop with no
14:25
hesitation now i ain’t got any wheat on
14:27
me and if i had it i would have sold it
14:29
to him
14:30
and then that’s when i was like is what
14:32
i’m doing really
14:33
wrong or is it just illegal
14:37
and then that’s when call it me wanting
14:39
to still make money and still running
14:41
the attention but i was able to
14:42
rationalize that i wasn’t hurting
14:44
anybody
14:45
that i was doing something that was
14:46
illegal and not necessarily immoral on
14:49
its own
14:50
you can make the argument that if you
14:52
violate a law
14:53
there’s an immorality to that but that’s
14:56
a separate that’s a separate uh
14:58
facet of this thought right there’s not
15:00
an actual victim to what you’ve done
15:03
yeah so what happened was is then
15:06
next thing you know i’m going i’m
15:08
selling a lot of like low
15:10
low amounts of cannabis i’m making
15:12
concert money i’m making car money i’m
15:13
not making like
15:15
buku bucks so then i go out to illinois
15:18
because that’s where my dad lives
15:19
and i found out the price of cannabis
15:21
out there and when i found out the price
15:23
of cannabis out there
15:25
all i seen was dollar signs dollar signs
15:27
everywhere
15:28
because my buddy bought an ounce of weed
15:31
for like a hundred or 120 bucks
15:33
and this was back when it had seeds and
15:35
was brown and the thc
15:37
was like four percent yes and like i
15:40
brought thc that was
15:42
green it was still compressed from
15:44
mexico but like it was higher quality
15:46
and what they were getting and i said
15:47
dude i could do this for a hundred an
15:49
ounce and i’d be
15:50
making money hand over fist and so it
15:53
just spiraled from there i i
15:55
i take complete ownership that i
15:57
voluntarily did the action i knew it was
15:59
illegal and did it
16:00
anyways but i didn’t think i was hurting
16:02
anybody
16:04
right and then what happened is you can
16:06
flash forward to
16:08
may of 2001 by this point
16:12
do you mind if i do do you mind if i
16:14
stop you for a second because i i just
16:15
want to talk about where we are up until
16:17
this point because this hits home
16:19
really in a major way with me you are a
16:21
37 correct
16:23
i’m 30 yeah i’m 39 right now you’re 39
16:26
okay so we’re basically the same age i’m
16:28
gonna be 39 this year
16:29
so the time you were getting high and
16:32
selling weed
16:33
some would say i was in a similar
16:35
situation i certainly would never say
16:37
that because south carolina has no
16:38
statute of limitations
16:39
but i will say that it has been argued
16:42
that uh by
16:43
others that i was in a very similar
16:45
situation to you
16:48
and
16:50
you then end up in prison and we’re
16:51
we’re going to get to that point
16:53
but this is like not an uncommon story
16:56
for teenage kids that they’re getting
16:59
high or you actually
17:00
weren’t getting high initially i wasn’t
17:02
you know i was
17:04
right right right but so many of us were
17:06
getting high
17:07
and ended up just selling to
17:11
get back the money that we were uh you
17:14
know that or
17:15
some were selling to to get back the
17:18
money that they spent
17:19
so that they broke even and before they
17:21
knew it they were actually making money
17:23
and it sort of spiraled out of control
17:26
uh as a result of that this is not an
17:28
uncommon thing it happens
17:30
or it happened all the time with with
17:32
people
17:33
and uh it’s just incredible so anyway i
17:36
don’t but
17:36
this is you know like this is not the
17:38
scarface story right you’re not
17:40
you’re not a gangster that’s out you
17:42
know defending your turf
17:43
but go go ahead i’m gonna let you keep
17:45
going the story touches there so
17:47
what happened is and this will come full
17:49
circle like there’s a reason for this
17:51
is in may of 2001
17:55
i never let anybody know that i was
17:56
selling uh larger amounts in illinois
17:59
because i was
18:00
by this point i was selling pounds and
18:01
five pounds at a time
18:03
it just escalated so quickly and
18:06
i never let anybody i sell sold to know
18:08
where i live
18:09
because i didn’t you know i didn’t want
18:11
to bring danger to my house
18:13
but then may of 2001
18:16
i’m laying in bed and i get my door
18:18
kicked in
18:19
by six to eight people they all had guns
18:22
i later found out there was two or three
18:24
different gangs that coordinated
18:26
and they ended up bashing my head open
18:29
and robbing me for 83 and a half pounds
18:30
of pot
18:32
now the funny part about this is i was
18:34
always like how did they find my address
18:37
like how did they even know who i am
18:38
because i’d never met any of these
18:40
people before
18:41
and how did they even know it was there
18:43
right so
18:45
two days later they all get caught with
18:48
the cannabis
18:48
that they robbed from me so
18:52
i’m watching the news and i’m looking at
18:54
all the cannabis that was mine that got
18:56
robbed these guys got caught with it two
18:59
days later
19:00
and so they go off to prison six weeks
19:02
later
19:03
i get arrested for a box coming through
19:06
ups at 37 pounds
19:07
pot now if you want to make the argument
19:10
jason you just got robbed two people got
19:12
caught went to prison why are you still
19:14
doing it
19:14
once again i’m not saying i was making
19:17
smart decisions
19:18
i was in you know i was a young stupid
19:20
kid
19:21
but like so i get caught with this 37
19:24
pounds the data lit
19:26
it’s a whole nother story they delivered
19:27
it to a house that i wasn’t at to a 14
19:30
year old kid who said he doesn’t want it
19:31
and refused to sign for it and arrested
19:33
me for it
19:34
so but i was guilty so that’s all that
19:36
matters right right
19:38
right right so here’s the deal
19:41
i get the prison and do you remember my
19:43
whole thing of i’m not hurting anybody
19:45
i’m not doing anything wrong i end up in
19:48
the same prison
19:49
with the people that rob me so
19:53
i’m out on the weight yard one day and
19:55
one of them comes up to me
19:57
and i said hey you from decatur right
20:01
i’m like yeah
20:02
he’s like i’m from decatur my name is
20:04
adam benjamin
20:05
oh well it’s okay he’s in prison it’s
20:08
all public knowledge now
20:09
so i’m like uh i’m like
20:13
yeah so i knew exactly who he was and
20:16
he’s like ah so who did you know
20:17
indicator
20:18
he keeps on pushing me like you know
20:20
trying to talk me and then finally i was
20:21
just like look dude i know who you are
20:24
what are you trying to do and that’s
20:27
when he started getting aggressive with
20:28
me and
20:29
one of the the gang members on the yard
20:31
that liked me
20:33
said pulled him aside and said wait a
20:35
minute that white boy ain’t
20:36
never caused anybody any problems what’s
20:38
going on why are you messing with him
20:41
and uh the guy said man i robbed him and
20:43
this and that and got
20:44
you know they’re like wait a minute you
20:45
robbed him he’s like
20:47
yeah he’s like and he’s not trying to
20:49
cause problems with you
20:51
he’s like no he’s like then you’re not
20:53
going to try and cause problems with him
20:55
that’s yeah so then they pull you know i
20:58
go up and the
20:59
guy kind of squashes it and i said yeah
21:01
i ain’t got any issues man
21:03
that was you didn’t rob me you robbed a
21:06
drug
21:06
dealer i don’t take it anything personal
21:09
and i have no desire to sit here
21:11
and live in violence about something
21:13
that’s not even a part of my life
21:15
anymore
21:15
i’m just dealing with the consequence
21:17
i’m no longer that person
21:19
the consequences don’t happen yeah yeah
21:21
i’m just dealing with the consequences
21:22
of being in prison
21:23
so flash forward another year me and
21:25
this guy
21:26
are cool we ended up working third shift
21:28
in the dietary we get along
21:30
and we’re talking and one day just came
21:32
up i just asked him like man how did you
21:34
guys even
21:35
find my house and back then
21:39
i was a slipknot fanatic when i bought
21:42
a house or i rented a house i shared a
21:45
driveway with the neighbor
21:47
and uh one of the things that i did
21:50
that’s why i didn’t want people to know
21:51
where i live is i didn’t want to bother
21:52
as a neighbor with traffic coming
21:53
through near the house
21:56
i just had slipknot stuff all over my
21:59
house as a slipknot fanatic i kept
22:00
everything away
22:01
and one day i went to a guy’s house to
22:04
do a sale
22:05
and i guess they they seen my car
22:08
and i guess somebody down the street had
22:10
a grandmother that lived on the same
22:12
street that i was at
22:13
and they saw my car sitting in my
22:15
driveway and that’s how they identified
22:18
my house so they came through with this
22:21
guy
22:22
the guy points out my car and says yep
22:24
that’s his car so therefore
22:26
that’s his house so then these six
22:28
people that were all gangsters with guns
22:31
decided to come up to my house
22:32
not knowing what i looked like not
22:35
knowing how i taught
22:37
not knowing if it’s even there and all
22:40
they knew was a white guy named jason
22:42
and they said does he have guns and the
22:44
guy’s response is no
22:45
jason’s a lame he doesn’t have a gun you
22:47
could probably hit him and take whatever
22:48
you want
22:49
so so they go up the driveway
22:52
they’re all getting prepared and the guy
22:54
that i’m in prison with who’s telling me
22:56
this story says they’re standing there
22:57
getting ready to kick in the door
22:59
right and they’re getting ready and the
23:02
guy looks over across across the
23:04
driveway
23:05
and he sees my slipknot tapestry hanging
23:08
in the door
23:09
or the window of my house he’s like wait
23:11
a minute
23:13
look at his car and they seen my
23:15
slipknot stickers on my car
23:17
seen the slipknot tapestry in the window
23:20
he was like
23:20
i think that’s it and then they crossed
23:24
over the driveway
23:26
kicked in my door and robbed me
23:29
at this moment everything that i thought
23:32
about myself
23:34
shattered and crumbled before me of
23:37
course the whole rumor
23:38
the whole lie that i gave myself that i
23:41
was not hurting anybody
23:43
and advocates out there listen to me the
23:45
story comes around full circle
23:48
shattered before me because i like to
23:50
say i wasn’t hurting anybody
23:52
but i brought a gang six people with
23:55
armed guns to my neighbor’s door
23:58
who did nothing wrong solely in search
24:01
of a white guy named jason
24:04
when they kicked in my door they split
24:05
open my head had they not realized the
24:08
slipknot tapestry
24:09
in my door they would have kicked in my
24:11
neighbor’s door
24:12
and probably he said that he he’s not me
24:15
they probably would not have believed
24:16
him and they would probably split his
24:18
head open
24:19
this story gets even worse because a
24:21
couple weeks later
24:22
one of the people that robbed me robbed
24:24
somebody else
24:26
and when they asked him where his weed
24:27
was at and he would not tell him
24:30
he knocked the guy’s daughter’s
24:33
eyeball out of her head wow
24:37
so they could have kicked in his door my
24:39
neighbor wouldn’t have known what
24:40
they’re talking about and said what weed
24:42
what weed i’m not even jason yeah
24:44
yeah they don’t know what i look like so
24:45
they would not have known it and i
24:47
cannot say that they would not have hurt
24:49
them
24:50
or killed them here’s what i tell them
24:51
to even kill them this is why it comes
24:53
full circle
24:54
it sounds like i’m hating on the
24:56
legalization of cannabis that it creates
24:58
these problems
24:59
but the actual truth of the matter is
25:01
the only reason those people came to
25:03
that door
25:04
is because you enabled me to be inside
25:07
of an illegal marketplace
25:08
with people who don’t have morals and if
25:12
you put it into dispensaries and into a
25:14
legalized marketplace
25:15
you you will not have people coming to
25:18
my door with guns
25:19
who could have hurt people i have to own
25:23
that it’s my fault that my actions
25:25
brought those people into that
25:26
neighborhood
25:28
but society has to own the fact that one
25:31
of two things needs to happen
25:33
we need to either get rid of people
25:34
using cannabis which we have been trying
25:37
forever and seem to be failing it
25:38
doesn’t work yet
25:39
or we need to realize that humans have
25:42
reactions and we need to set up our
25:45
marketplace to minimize the harm that
25:47
comes from those actions
25:49
and so i try to make people understand
25:51
this all the time
25:52
i did not smoke pot but i’m telling you
25:55
this
25:56
you can be anti-prohibition without
25:58
being pro-use
26:00
you can say that i don’t want you to
26:02
smoke a joint i don’t want to come home
26:04
and see my kid high
26:07
and still say i also don’t want an
26:09
illegal market where people are kicking
26:11
in his door
26:12
right there is a there is a mass
26:15
distinction that must be made and i feel
26:17
that progress has been held
26:19
up because they look at the use and they
26:21
say there’s
26:22
problems with use and if we legalize it
26:24
you know it’s not fighting against
26:26
someone using it
26:27
and i’m saying no you can legalize it we
26:30
have aaa centers all over the place
26:32
alcohol is considered a drug we give
26:34
rehab for it
26:36
we can address the substance issues for
26:39
those who abuse it
26:40
without making a criminal market be
26:43
established and
26:44
create a black market that funds gangs
26:46
and is going to help with terrorism
26:49
so that’s why i always tell that story
26:51
is because a lot of people look at me
26:53
and they see me as this white guy that’s
26:55
very clean cut and able to explain
26:57
himself
26:58
and i didn’t grow up i’m not a gangster
27:01
i didn’t want to be a gangster
27:02
i had no violent intention in me but i
27:05
was able to follow this moral
27:06
slippery slope of this lie of a belief
27:09
that i gave myself that i’m
27:11
not hurting anybody and that lie
27:14
resulted in six armed people at my
27:16
neighbor’s door
27:18
right now as a society we cannot help
27:20
teenagers making stupid decisions and
27:23
not realizing the bigger picture
27:25
but we can realize we can prevent those
27:27
teenagers from being able to create that
27:29
situation to begin with
27:31
right so exactly that’s one of the
27:32
points that i always make um
27:34
so now i’ll go on to the rest of the
27:36
story so i had that moment
27:38
and it changed everything for me and it
27:40
made me realize that
27:42
not only do i want to make a better
27:43
impact in life but i have to create a
27:45
positive net contribution to make up for
27:48
the harm that i
27:49
created just to get back to a net zero
27:52
because it doesn’t matter if cannabis
27:54
should have been legal
27:55
it doesn’t matter if it is legal it
27:58
doesn’t change that i created a net harm
28:00
so i asked myself how am i going to do
28:03
this
28:04
and you only went through my head as i
28:06
said the more i study the smarter i’ll
28:08
be
28:08
and the better i’ll be able to answer
28:09
that question and so then that’s when i
28:12
started studying
28:13
uh chemistry on my own i started
28:15
studying economics on my own i started
28:17
studying physics on my own
28:19
i got a i wrote a college and asked him
28:22
for an old textbook and i got a 1200
28:24
page
28:24
molecular chemistry textbook with a 1100
28:26
page workbook
28:27
and i said this this was this this was
28:30
still in prison
28:31
while i was in prison okay okay and so
28:34
and so i studied every single page
28:36
every single problem and i learned
28:38
exactly everything that was going on
28:41
for six hours a day for six to eight
28:44
months straight and the six hours counts
28:46
me actually physically writing taking
28:48
notes
28:48
not the time me thinking about it trying
28:50
to figure it out
28:52
right right and and as i was going
28:54
through all this i like to joke that
28:57
i committed one more crime in life
28:59
because when i got my notes done
29:01
my notes stood higher than the textbook
29:03
so if you believe in intellectual
29:05
property i technically did copyright
29:07
infringement on my notes because it was
29:08
bigger than the textbook so
29:10
but um so but i kept on educating myself
29:13
because i knew i wanted to do something
29:15
better and now here’s where
29:16
libertarianism
29:18
and my whole path came to be right
29:21
in 2007 i get a letter from
29:24
dan lin who is the executive director of
29:26
the illinois normal which is national
29:28
organization reform marijuana laws
29:30
because i was in communication with them
29:31
to try and help
29:33
raise awareness to how we need to get
29:35
rid of the black market
29:37
and he sent me a letter because he was a
29:39
real good friend he supported me you
29:41
know
29:41
emotionally through letters he’s like
29:43
yeah i’m getting ready to watch it
29:45
watch the debate and i’m reading the
29:47
letter i’m saying in my head he’s a
29:48
democrat
29:49
like the debate wasn’t that he’s like
29:52
yeah the republican debate
29:54
i’m like the republican debate and he’s
29:57
like yeah ron
29:58
paul and i’m like what and so the next
30:00
republican debate
30:02
i turned it on and i watched this old
30:04
guy get up there behind the thing and
30:06
i’m like
30:07
and i listen to everything he said and
30:08
i’m just like wow
30:10
how is this a republican like yeah he
30:13
called out the wars he called out the
30:15
war on drugs he called out
30:17
he called stuff about terrorism out like
30:20
so at that moment i found out that he
30:23
was like
30:23
libertarian philosophy and then that’s
30:25
when i started learning about
30:26
libertarianism and i was studying
30:28
economics
30:29
and then i started learning about you
30:31
know supply and demand and application
30:33
of resources and
30:36
one thing that had been troubling me
30:38
over the years is that when i first got
30:39
into the prison system
30:42
i found out that there’s certain things
30:44
you can do to improve your prison
30:45
sentence
30:46
to get out early and that’s if you get a
30:49
ged
30:49
increase your education participate in
30:52
drug rehabilitation
30:53
things like that you can do things that
30:54
would earn merit towards getting out
30:56
sooner
30:57
so i go to my counselor and i find out
31:00
what do i got to do to do this
31:02
and i usually tell the story because
31:04
there was two guys beside me
31:06
one guy was a convicted sex offender the
31:09
other guy was a murderer
31:12
i sold cannabis no guns
31:15
no violence sold cannabis
31:19
i found out that out of the three people
31:22
i was the only one
31:23
who could not qualify to get the good
31:26
conduct credits against my sentence
31:28
because in the state of illinois i was
31:31
considered
31:32
more heinous than the second-degree
31:34
murderer yeah
31:36
because what happened was is i was a
31:38
class-x offense
31:40
and in 1978 we changed our correction
31:42
system
31:43
to allow people to become better people
31:46
instead of being a punishment system or
31:48
correction system we wanted to correct
31:50
you
31:50
but anybody who understands politics
31:52
knows that there’s compromises
31:54
and the compromises that they made was
31:56
that there’s some people who’s done
31:58
something
31:58
so vile so heinous they’ve given up
32:01
their right to be restored
32:03
and they created this class crime called
32:05
class x which means you were
32:06
x out of society you’d sacrifice that
32:09
right
32:10
and they put it in there with human
32:11
disbodyment with you know aggravated
32:14
murder of a senior citizen
32:16
you know all these grotesque crimes that
32:20
i believe even the staunchest criminal
32:22
justice advocate would be like
32:23
i agree why they got arrested you know i
32:26
mean
32:27
like right so but then what happened was
32:30
nixon
32:30
and reagan and the war on drugs and
32:33
politicians voting on bills without
32:34
understanding
32:35
what they’re doing this policy is
32:39
federal that you’re talking about right
32:40
it’s not
32:41
illinois it was a state policy okay okay
32:45
okay okay so okay 1978 that so what
32:48
happened is
32:49
is you got this whole movement across
32:51
the nation and you know the
32:52
federal government likes to use money to
32:54
control states to get them to do what
32:56
they want
32:57
and uh so in the state of illinois
33:01
we upgraded a cannabis offense to a
33:03
class
33:04
x on this whole i’m going to give them a
33:06
longer sentence thing
33:07
not realizing when they do that you’ve
33:09
now legally declared any person
33:11
who sold cannabis in that range more
33:14
heinous
33:15
than a second-degree murder so i was
33:18
ineligible to receive good conduct
33:20
credits and things that could help
33:21
rehabilitate me
33:23
because i had sold over 11 pounds of
33:26
low-grade cannabis i’m not disagreeing
33:29
with but there being a consequence i’m
33:30
just saying
33:31
i don’t think anybody believes that i
33:33
should be legally
33:34
more heinous and less rehabilitatable
33:37
than a second-degree murder
33:38
or a sex offender yep okay so or
33:42
so so i was like man what can i do to
33:46
fix this and then i was listening to ron
33:48
paul and i was
33:48
learning about economics so i started
33:50
writing all the newspapers
33:52
because one of the things ron paul did
33:54
is he talked about how a lot of
33:55
legislators vote on things they don’t
33:57
understand
33:58
and you need to get the voters to care
34:00
before the legislators ever will
34:02
and so i wrote every single state rep i
34:04
wrote every single state senator i wrote
34:06
the governor’s office then i started
34:08
writing the newspapers because i said
34:09
okay i’ll try to get their voters on
34:11
board
34:12
and so while i’m doing all this this was
34:15
like a
34:15
five-year thing okay
34:18
uh we finally started to get criminal
34:21
justice reform in illinois
34:23
governor rauner came into office talking
34:26
about make the time
34:27
fit the crime he was a republican i like
34:30
to think he was pretty libertarianish in
34:31
his republican ways
34:33
um and he was like we’re no longer going
34:36
to give people
34:37
these sentences that don’t match and we
34:39
should be ashamed of ourselves and we
34:40
should start restoring things
34:42
right so he comes into office
34:45
one of the first things he did in office
34:47
was deny my clemency
34:50
and i was like at that point
34:53
i remember when i first got my time and
34:55
i got my 30 years in prison
34:57
people would ask me like i’d still smile
34:59
i’d still laugh and like what are you
35:00
doing
35:01
i was like i was in shock i did not
35:04
truly believe that society
35:06
would allow my 30-year sentence to stand
35:09
i said that
35:10
that society will step up at some point
35:14
and be like yeah no that’s crazy we’re
35:16
gonna undo that that’s not gonna happen
35:18
and i really thought that would happen
35:21
but then here i was
35:22
11 years into my sentence with a guy who
35:25
just took office on criminal justice
35:27
reform
35:28
saying we’re giving out these crazy
35:30
sentences and they’re not right and we
35:31
shouldn’t do this to people
35:33
and then he wins election a republican
35:36
won a statewide race in
35:37
illinois saying we need to fix the
35:40
prison system these sentences are crazy
35:42
and his first thing he did is deny my
35:45
clemency
35:46
which in my eyes was saying 30 years for
35:50
cannabis
35:51
that’s cool we can ride with that so
35:53
let’s talk about that for a second why
35:55
did you get 30 years uh
35:58
because in illinois the statue is 12 to
36:01
60 years
36:04
so check this one out here’s the
36:06
difference between california illinois
36:08
my mother sent me that box of cannabis
36:10
that i got arrested for
36:12
uh let me show you the difference
36:13
between the state laws
36:15
which i believe in stage rights so there
36:17
should be some differences but
36:19
yeah but my mother’s maximum sentence
36:22
for the same cannabis
36:23
the same box of canvas she sent me was
36:26
four years
36:27
that was the absolute max
36:31
the box that she sent that i received my
36:34
minimum
36:35
was 12 years that was the absolute
36:38
minimum
36:40
so what happened was when when the
36:42
governor rauner denied my commutation
36:45
i had this epiphany where i realized
36:48
society was really going to make me do
36:50
that entire sentence
36:52
by that time i’d already served 11 years
36:55
i was like i can handle the rest of the
36:57
time but it was devastating to accept
37:00
that society was going to allow my
37:02
sentence to stand
37:04
because if the guy who wins office on
37:06
criminal justice reform
37:08
saying all that stuff can’t even lower
37:11
my sentence from serving 15 to serving
37:14
11.
37:16
so i said what am i going to do and this
37:18
is what
37:20
bothers me i think back to this kid i
37:23
knew
37:24
he was black he had a tattoo on his neck
37:28
he was a four corner hustler which is a
37:30
gang
37:31
he was 19. he’d realized that the gang
37:34
was a scam
37:35
and that he was being used and that the
37:37
leaders were making money off of them
37:40
and he wanted to do something different
37:43
and he came to me we were talking
37:47
and he said how can i do something
37:48
better with my life
37:51
and i looked at him
37:54
black kid going to go back to the south
37:58
side of chicago
38:00
four corner hustler tattooed on his neck
38:02
and big letters yeah
38:04
yeah and i didn’t want to tell him dude
38:06
you got so much against you there’s not
38:08
much you
38:09
you can try to make your life better but
38:11
yeah you got a lot against you
38:14
and then that’s when i realized i’m
38:17
white
38:18
i’m clean-cut i’m very articulate
38:22
i’m not scary and the thing that i went
38:24
to prison for
38:26
nobody really thinks is all that bad
38:28
right and i said i have the ability
38:31
to be the megaphone to help make changes
38:34
that that 19 year old kid who just
38:36
wanted a better life
38:37
would be less likely to achieve so
38:41
i felt it on my back and so in 2016
38:46
i finally get to a work release center
38:47
which is where you’re allowed to get out
38:49
and you’re allowed to go to work and uh
38:53
try to try to like reintegrate you into
38:55
society
38:56
well i came into my counselor and i
38:59
decided i wanted to be an engineer i
39:01
wanted to try and get those policy
39:02
reforms done so that the next
39:04
person sitting in my shoes wouldn’t be
39:07
labeled heinous and unrehabilitated like
39:10
i am
39:10
see because people think that i’m
39:12
worried just about the inmate i’m not
39:14
uh recidivism rates at least in illinois
39:18
was 89 if you did not have a ged
39:21
and what that meant is that out of 100
39:23
people who left prison
39:25
if they did not have a ged 89 of them
39:29
came back if you did have a ged
39:33
it dropped to 47 wow
39:36
that’s a 42 reduction and i try to tell
39:40
people
39:40
i’m not ever going to make the economic
39:42
argument to you
39:43
because if you make the economics then
39:45
all you’re saying is when the economy
39:47
gets good and we can afford it again
39:48
we can let this happen so here’s the
39:51
argument i make
39:52
don’t look at it as 42 less people who
39:54
came back to prison
39:56
they did something wrong they might
39:57
deserve to be in prison
39:59
but look at it is if you lower that
40:01
recidivism rate that’s
40:02
42 other victims that never got created
40:06
that’s 42 other emotional instances that
40:09
didn’t impact somebody because they got
40:11
their
40:12
their wallets snatched from them as they
40:14
were walking down the street
40:15
right don’t think of it as you’re
40:17
helping the criminal
40:18
think of it as you’re reducing the
40:20
impacts on society
40:22
and so one of the arguments i make is we
40:24
should use every carrot we can to get
40:26
people to get a ged
40:27
and you’re going to tell me because they
40:29
sold a certain amount of cannabis that
40:30
you’re not going to incentivize them
40:32
to be able to be smart enough to fill
40:34
out a mcdonald’s application
40:36
when i got out i could have told you how
40:39
molecular chemistry worked and what a
40:41
mole was
40:42
and all kinds of things with physics
40:44
this
40:45
scared the heck out of me a smartphone
40:48
scared me to death try to apply for
40:51
mcdonald’s now
40:54
and i’m going to tell you if you think
40:56
that the average person getting out of
40:58
prison without a ged is going to have an
41:00
easy time with that
41:01
you have a misconception of what we
41:04
actually have going on
41:06
in america yeah because so imagine if
41:08
for those that are watching this
41:10
uh jason did 15 years imagine what your
41:13
life
41:14
was 15 years ago and now imagine that
41:18
you
41:19
are separated from all of society from
41:22
that point
41:23
until today and now you’ve got to figure
41:26
out
41:27
with ever all the changes that have
41:29
happened not as an
41:30
abstract idea like oh i lost 15 years
41:33
like imagine not having
41:35
you didn’t have a cell phone or if you
41:37
did it was one of these like brick
41:38
looking phones or something like that
41:40
and then you come back out and this
41:42
thing is more powerful than any
41:44
any laptop that or or computer that you
41:47
had ever possibly been exposed to before
41:49
you went in
41:50
and that’s before you get into the
41:51
people that spent 20 or 30 years in
41:52
there but
41:53
look at 15 years what what that’s like
41:56
coming out and everything is now on this
41:59
you don’t even have one of these
42:00
and god forbid and we can get into this
42:02
next but you know uh you know
42:05
the debt issues credit issues everything
42:08
that’s happened
42:08
lots of people in prison deal with uh
42:10
stolen identity while they’re in jail
42:12
and they have no effective way to even
42:14
know what’s happening much less fight it
42:16
let’s talk about your debts for a moment
42:17
because you’re sitting on the kind of
42:19
that’s what i was getting to
42:20
yeah yeah i got to the word center one
42:22
of the first things your counselors do
42:24
is they want you to start paying off
42:25
your fines
42:26
here’s where i discovered i got 268
42:31
000 in debt for selling cannabis
42:34
as a teenager so i’m sorry they said it
42:38
in court i should have remembered
42:40
but when they’re giving you a sentence
42:42
that’s longer than you’ve been alive
42:44
sometimes your ears don’t hear
42:46
everything that’s said after that
42:47
right so so i get to working center and
42:50
i realize i have
42:51
268 thousand dollars in fines
42:54
because i sold cannabis and so i i’m
42:57
like
42:58
uh so i’m like
43:01
what am i gonna do with this so then and
43:04
that’s a go ongoing issue but
43:05
i go to my counselor i’m like i want to
43:07
be an engineer
43:08
and or i said i got two goals he’s like
43:11
okay let’s hear your two goals
43:13
i’m like my first goal is to do whatever
43:15
it takes to make you
43:17
happy he’s like i like your first goal
43:20
you’re on you’re not that you’re pretty
43:23
bright you’re not that dumb
43:24
i like your first goal let’s hear your
43:26
second i was like i want to be an
43:28
engineer
43:28
he’s like what does that have to do with
43:32
me
43:32
i’m like i want to go to college and
43:35
he’s like oh this is a work release
43:36
center you can’t go to college you got
43:38
work i said it says in your book i can
43:39
go to college i don’t want to push the
43:41
issue though
43:42
he’s like i said my first goal is to
43:44
make you happy so i won’t push the issue
43:47
but i want to go to college he said get
43:49
a job
43:50
work full-time bring home two checks and
43:54
then we’ll talk about it
43:55
so i go out and i get two jobs working
43:58
at kenny’s west side
44:00
in downtown peoria and i’m working 70
44:03
hours a week
44:04
within six weeks i became the manager of
44:06
one of the auxiliary businesses
44:08
that was losing money at the time uh i
44:10
brought home
44:11
six weeks of checks at 70 hours a week i
44:14
went back to my counselor and said
44:16
okay you said bring home two checks of
44:18
40 hours a week i’ve brought home six
44:20
checks with 70 hours a week i would like
44:22
to go to school now
44:24
he’s like you’re working 70 hours a week
44:26
there’s no way you can handle school
44:28
he didn’t know that i’d already studied
44:30
physics chemistry calculus everything
44:32
i’ve been locked up
44:33
i spent all that time preparing myself
44:36
to be able to be more successful
44:39
so uh so i’m like look
44:42
i told you what my first rule was you
44:44
told me what to do i followed through
44:47
trust me on my second rule he was like
44:49
all right you can take one class
44:51
i’m like whoa hold on one class said
44:54
some of them are two units some are five
44:56
if i can’t take the five because it
44:58
doesn’t work with my work schedule
45:00
i can’t take two twos and he’s like
45:03
just go sign up for college and don’t do
45:05
nothing stupid
45:06
i go out to the college full-time
45:08
engineering courses
45:10
full-time labs everything so i sign up
45:13
and long story short 17 months in the
45:16
workplace center i was working 60 to 70
45:18
hours a week
45:19
i was doing full-time labs in
45:20
engineering i held a 4.0
45:24
i helped turn the auxiliary business
45:27
around from losing money and made it
45:28
profitable
45:29
to the point that it was sold to a
45:31
business partner on the condition that i
45:33
stayed on as operations manager for six
45:35
months
45:38
and i started transferring applying to
45:40
transfer to other universities such as
45:42
stanford
45:43
harvard university of illinois uh i
45:46
wanted to make this big impact
45:48
because i knew i was equipped and ready
45:50
to try and make a big
45:51
impact i wanted a place that would help
45:53
me do that so
45:55
here’s what happens illinois
45:58
gave me 268 000 in fines
46:01
why isn’t a work lease center illinois
46:05
comes to me and says hey we’re trying to
46:06
do recruiting for corrections
46:08
would you mind coming and speaking to
46:10
criminal justice classes about what the
46:11
job might be like from an inmate
46:13
perspective
46:14
and so now i’m going and speaking on
46:16
behalf of the work release center for
46:18
the illinois department of corrections
46:19
to criminal justice classes
46:21
about how they could work within the
46:22
system to try and make it better
46:25
through that i ended up meeting the
46:27
director of communications for the
46:28
illinois department of corrections
46:30
and i was able to discuss my goals and
46:32
the things that i would like to see
46:34
changes happen
46:35
in illinois for their criminal policy
46:38
and she was like huh what are those
46:41
and i started talking now i can’t say
46:44
that everything i said is what made them
46:46
magically go bam
46:47
hey we’re going to do that but i said if
46:49
you’re willing to hear me out i’m going
46:51
to cooperate and help you
46:53
so they said i think we’re on the i
46:56
think we have a meeting in the mines
46:57
here
46:58
and i’m happy to say that today every
47:01
single policy reform that i argued for
47:04
from my prison cell
47:05
and was published in papers arguing for
47:07
has been implemented
47:09
it was implemented underneath governor
47:11
rauner and so one of the things that i
47:13
remember and jb
47:14
pritzker is doing a great job continuing
47:16
it and trying to make it better
47:18
so one of the things that i argue about
47:21
is the very guy
47:22
that denied my clemency that made me
47:25
stay in prison
47:26
because you know 15 years was the right
47:28
sentence
47:29
according to him and that 268 thousand
47:32
dollars in fines was cool
47:33
according to him right did follow
47:36
through
47:37
and did make some policy changes that’s
47:39
made it
47:40
so that buddies like shane crutchfield
47:42
of mine
47:43
a friend of mine who got 40 years for a
47:46
couple ounces of cocaine
47:47
is now no longer a heinous offender and
47:49
is getting good conduct
47:51
credits and might get out of prison a
47:53
year or two early
47:54
for doing rehabilitative practices um
47:58
but but so what happens is i’m applying
48:00
to all these colleges and i’m doing all
48:02
this stuff
48:03
with the illinois department corrections
48:05
at that time cash jackson starts running
48:07
for governor in illinois libertarian
48:09
he comes to me as like dude i need you
48:11
be my be my
48:12
director of field operations for the
48:15
ballot access initiative
48:17
uh i collected 1600 signatures volunteer
48:21
uh me and justin tucker tied for first
48:23
place on signature collection that year
48:26
and uh and so after i helped get cash
48:29
jacks on the ballot he was like dude you
48:30
got to help me
48:31
you understand policy reforms and if you
48:34
help me i will push the same policy
48:36
reforms you want done
48:38
so going around cash jackson i ended up
48:41
running into state representatives jason
48:43
barrickman i ended up running into other
48:45
elected officials
48:47
at this time i get into stanford
48:51
i also get in to the university of
48:53
illinois
48:54
and here’s where a disconnect comes you
48:57
know i had a 4.0 gpa
48:59
i was the first ever incarcerated
49:01
student to make it into phi theta kappa
49:04
the university of illinois accepted me
49:08
with the asterisk that i have to come on
49:10
academic probation
49:13
i was like what why do i gotta come on
49:15
academic probation i called the guy up
49:17
i’m asking i’m like
49:18
what’s going on like i’ve never cheated
49:20
on a test
49:21
he’s like oh oh we’ve seen that you got
49:23
a felony and
49:24
anytime you got a felony there’s one of
49:26
three things we can do i’m like okay
49:28
he’s like we can accept you outright we
49:31
can deny you
49:32
or we can accept you with academic
49:34
probation
49:35
and i’m like can you explain to me when
49:38
you would have accepted somebody without
49:39
academic probation you said oh yeah
49:42
let’s say you got a dui two three years
49:44
ago
49:45
but you went to court you got a year
49:47
probation and then you get out
49:49
but you ain’t done nothing wrong so it
49:50
was two years ago we’re just going to
49:52
accept you you made a mistake it’s
49:54
behind you we let you go
49:55
and i’m like have you seen my file
49:58
and he pulls my file and because i sold
50:02
cannabis 17 years before they deemed i
50:06
was a risk
50:07
to cheat on a test
50:10
so i had to go into the university of
50:13
illinois
50:14
on academic probation because i sold
50:18
cannabis as a teenager 17 years before
50:21
when stanford heard about this the dean
50:24
personally called me up and he said
50:26
jason
50:28
come to stanford where we see you for
50:30
the man that you are
50:32
and not the mistake that you’ve left
50:34
behind and it almost put me in tears
50:37
and what what hurts my heart is
50:40
everywhere along the way
50:42
if there was a government entity
50:43
involved even when there was good people
50:46
in those government entities
50:48
yeah it had bad policies and bad
50:50
decisions
50:52
and i try to tell people
50:55
i try to remember that the people are
50:57
not necessarily representative of the
50:59
government that they have over them
51:01
but the problems i have is that the more
51:03
advocacy i do
51:05
and the more i’ve been involved in the
51:06
political arena i realize
51:08
outside of libertarians there’s a lot of
51:10
people who just check the box for the
51:13
letter they know
51:14
and they never even look at it and they
51:16
just assume that their politicians know
51:17
what they’re doing
51:18
when the democrats nominated joe biden
51:22
arguing about criminal justice reform
51:25
yep with the very guy who
51:27
pushed for the brady bill
51:31
i was like what and then the republicans
51:34
were like i’m with donald trump because
51:36
he gets spending underway
51:38
and we’ve had the largest deficit in the
51:41
history of the nation
51:43
like it’s like they just vote for the
51:45
letter that they know
51:46
so then i get to stanford and i’m in my
51:49
power
51:50
to class and they want me to do a
51:51
presentation
51:53
and the presentation has to be on like a
51:55
policy that’s messed up
51:56
and they said you can do it in regards
51:58
to drugs so i did it on legalization and
52:01
i had to give a thesis on what we should
52:03
be doing
52:04
and i and the name of my paper was i beg
52:07
your pardon
52:09
and what it is that is if we legalize
52:11
cannabis we should pardon
52:13
all cannabis convictions yeah here’s
52:15
where it spiraled into the whole next
52:17
project
52:18
that i’m currently on i had to fly back
52:21
to illinois i had to help lobby on
52:23
behalf of the cannabis bill
52:24
not in the measure of people like dan
52:26
lynn or illinois normal but i did assist
52:29
and some of this very representatives
52:31
that oppose the bill like jason berefin
52:33
who i met at wcia news shook my hand and
52:37
said dude your story is amazing
52:39
i’ve i’ve read some of your stuff like
52:41
i’m on board
52:42
anything i’d ever do to help you let me
52:43
know he went on a news
52:46
opposing the cannabis legalization
52:48
because he said it might give
52:49
drug dealers a conviction off of their
52:52
record if they were a non-violent
52:53
cannabis
52:54
i i called his office i said do you
52:57
remember the discussion that we had in
52:58
wcia news
53:00
and i started talking and i started to
53:02
explain
53:04
why he shouldn’t oppose like the
53:05
expungement procedure inside of the bill
53:08
once again i can’t say he changed his
53:10
vote on me
53:12
but i can say that i give them props
53:14
senator jason barickman became a
53:16
co-sponsor of the legalization bill
53:18
and it passed with an expungement
53:20
procedure that has allowed hundreds of
53:22
thousands of people in illinois to
53:23
qualify for expungements to their
53:24
convictions
53:26
because not because of me
53:29
i cannot say that what i can say is i
53:31
called and i think he might have
53:33
searched his own conscience
53:35
but sometimes i know you’re not saying
53:38
i’m saying it go ahead i’m saying it but
53:42
yeah i’m saying the 19 year old kid with
53:44
four corner hustler who was black in
53:46
prison in my same spot
53:48
probably couldn’t have called his office
53:49
and made the same impact
53:51
but i can tell you that 19 year old kid
53:53
now would be eligible for expungement
53:55
and will help
53:56
him move past the gang fallacies that he
53:58
had in his head
54:00
yeah so uh here’s what happens
54:04
so we get that pass and then i take a
54:07
computer science class called 182 which
54:09
is ethics public policy and technology
54:11
and right now this is happening even in
54:14
the federal level
54:15
we have criminal justice reforms where
54:17
we’re going to start implementing
54:18
artificial intelligence algorithms to
54:20
make predictive models on who should be
54:22
released
54:23
who should have cash free bail versus
54:26
using cash bail
54:28
and i’m telling you i see the onslaught
54:30
that’s coming
54:31
because the criminal justice reform
54:33
people the social justice warriors
54:35
have great intentions but have no
54:38
understanding of how the technology
54:40
works and then a lot of the people in
54:42
the tech field
54:43
have great intentions but have no
54:46
understanding of how the actual
54:47
correction systems
54:48
operate let me give you a real good
54:50
example of the disconnect here
54:52
when i was going for community college
54:54
courses while i was in the workplace
54:55
center
54:56
i had to pay for my tuition at the
54:59
community college
55:00
right because you know you can’t get the
55:02
pell grant if you’re a convicted drug
55:04
offender if you got the pell grant
55:05
during
55:06
it so they’ve changed that now so that’s
55:08
a positive
55:09
good but now there was this thing called
55:11
the american opportunity tax credit
55:14
which allowed you to deduct the
55:15
dispenses of your college education
55:17
against your taxes
55:19
i’m literally in the financial aid
55:21
office of the college
55:22
with a convicted rapist as i’m standing
55:26
there
55:27
he qualified for the american
55:29
opportunity tax credit
55:31
and i did not the reason i did not
55:35
is because underneath the american
55:36
opportunity tax credit which is a
55:38
federal thing
55:39
if you have a drug conviction you cannot
55:42
qualify
55:43
however if i take a gun out and shoot
55:45
you i can call yeah i was
55:55
and this is the disconnect that people
55:56
have so
55:59
i’m looking at that that kind of
56:01
disconnect like that simple thing
56:03
that to me that’s dead obvious like you
56:05
know if you sold cannabis
56:07
you should be able to write your college
56:09
expenses off of your thing the same as
56:10
if you killed somebody
56:12
that’s that’s that’s just my belief so
56:16
and now i’m in this class and they’re
56:18
talking about how they’re going to do
56:19
these cash-free bail algorithms and how
56:21
are they going to make it okay
56:23
and i’m starting to look at how they’re
56:25
doing the bucketing
56:27
computer science unlike politics
56:29
libertarians have understood that
56:31
politics is not binary
56:32
it’s not left and right it’s a spectrum
56:38
it’s not yes or no
56:41
it’s not for gay marriage against gay
56:44
marriage there’s also why is government
56:46
telling you who can
56:47
who you can marry to begin with exactly
56:49
there’s this other answer
56:51
but when you get to computer science all
56:53
a computer knows
56:54
is a zero and a one
56:58
so what’s happening is they got these
56:59
buckets and you can go through it and
57:01
i’ll give you a good example
57:02
libertarians are a real pro gun
57:04
hopefully we can understand the
57:06
difference between a gun charge though
57:08
so the algorithm is going to assess as
57:10
this person is risky
57:12
does this person pose a risk should we
57:14
let him out on cash free bail
57:16
and one of the things that the algorithm
57:17
is going to look at is do you have a
57:19
prior gun charge
57:20
and it’s going to assess that now here’s
57:22
the difference
57:24
the algorithm does not know the
57:25
difference of if i was a pimp
57:28
sex or sex trafficking minors in new
57:31
york city
57:32
who also sold a lot of heroin who had a
57:35
stolen
57:36
sawed-off shotgun that i filed down the
57:38
serial numbers
57:39
and when you kicked in my door to try
57:41
and get me for the child sex
57:42
trafficking they just happen to not be
57:44
there but you’re going to arrest me for
57:46
the gun
57:47
so i got a car charge now
57:50
let’s say this other guy is in illinois
57:53
and he went out
57:54
hunting and he had a hunting rifle that
57:55
his dad left him
57:57
and he didn’t register it correctly and
57:59
he gets pulled over by the game warden
58:02
why he’s out hunting he now has a gun
58:05
charge
58:06
do you really think the computer will
58:09
not be able to see the difference
58:10
between that
58:11
of course now my cs professors are like
58:15
good point but there’s judges and they
58:17
can override those algorithms
58:20
they’re right because they’re tech
58:21
people judges can tech people
58:23
are removed from how the actual
58:25
political system works
58:26
just like community social people are
58:29
removed from how the tech works
58:31
so i told my professor i was like do you
58:33
realize in most of these states judges
58:35
are elected officials
58:37
and at any time they get the chance to
58:40
not have to make a decision
58:41
and just say i just went with what the
58:43
algorithm said the machine
58:45
told me to do it exactly and if you
58:47
think
58:48
and if you think that someone’s going to
58:50
come before you
58:51
and that judge is going to be like i’m
58:52
going to risk my career on this
58:54
to let this guy out for a week you’re
58:57
out of your mind because willie horton
58:59
showed how scared people get when it
59:01
comes to elections
59:02
so bingo when i talk to people and i
59:05
tell them my story
59:07
they go oh my gosh that’s outrageous you
59:09
got 30 years for cannabis
59:11
what you know what an algorithm is going
59:13
to say
59:15
yup yup that’s it because there’s no
59:17
human rationalization there
59:19
and here’s the scary part like something
59:21
like 49 or 50 states are already
59:23
implementing this procedure
59:24
and i’m not saying it’s bad i’m saying i
59:27
see the unintended consequences of the
59:30
legislation
59:32
just like in the constitution when they
59:34
said you know what let’s not be a
59:35
punishment system let’s be a corrections
59:37
system in illinois
59:38
and then created the class x offense but
59:41
then that expanded
59:42
and then next thing you know you got
59:44
non-violent canvas offenders being more
59:46
heinous than a murderer
59:47
that’s what’s going to happen with the
59:49
ai algorithms that are going on right
59:51
now
59:51
and so i created a website and it’s
59:53
called make cannabis not matter dot com
59:57
the reason i created is i’m trying to
59:58
raise awareness of it and i came up with
60:00
the name
60:01
because you had trump saying make
60:02
america great again then you had black
60:04
lives matter
60:05
and you know i was like i want something
60:07
catchy that people you know will
60:08
remember so like black eyes matter
60:10
make america great again let’s make
60:12
cannabis not matter
60:14
and my whole premise of that is i want
60:15
to remove cannabis convictions from any
60:18
algorithm that is assessing the risk of
60:20
an individual on bail
60:22
and my argument is
60:25
is if you legalize cannabis inside of
60:27
your state you have ruled that that
60:29
actual action on its own does not merit
60:32
you being a dangerous person
60:34
now you can argue oh but you did
60:36
something in violation of the law it was
60:38
illegal when you did it therefore it
60:39
should matter
60:40
and i’m like there’s a logic to that
60:44
let’s think that through so you’re
60:46
saying a computer
60:48
should look and say if someone did
60:50
something that was illegal at the time
60:52
even if it’s legal now it should still
60:54
be held against them
60:56
he’s like yeah okay so anybody who’s in
60:59
an interracial marriage
61:00
in the 1980s or 90s yeah they’re
61:03
arrested society
61:05
what interracial marriage was illegal
61:07
well wait a minute
61:08
well what if they uh what if they were
61:10
homosexual
61:11
and you know they loved their partner
61:13
and so they
61:14
participated in sodomy yeah that’s a
61:17
crime
61:19
it’s not i mean if you want to follow
61:21
the logic of you did something wrong at
61:23
the time
61:23
it was illegal it was here’s how the
61:25
computer is going to do it
61:26
yeah anybody who did sodomy you risk the
61:29
society
61:30
and that that’s not just your
61:31
interracial marriage your risk of
61:33
society
61:33
and that anybody who got a blow job even
61:36
from their own wife is a risk to society
61:39
and not and not only is that a crime
61:41
that’s a sex crime
61:45
that’s a sex crime let me talk let me
61:47
talk real quick about about the willy
61:49
horton thing and why
61:50
because there may be some people in the
61:52
comments that are saying you know but
61:54
why would that be that a judge wouldn’t
61:55
override it
61:56
so in uh in 1986 or 87 i believe
62:00
uh willie uh michael dukakis was the
62:03
governor of massachusetts
62:04
and he created a work release program
62:08
that a work for furlough program that
62:10
allowed people that were in prison
62:12
to go and work and then go back to
62:14
prison and it was largely going well but
62:16
there was one guy
62:17
named willie horton he went out on his
62:20
work release
62:21
and ended up holding up a uh a nursery
62:24
or something like that
62:25
and uh to try to get free ended up
62:28
killing a bunch of people
62:29
that haunted michael dukakis’s career
62:31
for the rest of his life
62:32
he ended up probably the reason that he
62:34
lost to george h.w
62:36
bush in the presidential election was
62:37
because of willie horton
62:39
and so a judge who is being presented
62:41
with an opportunity to override a
62:43
computer program
62:44
saying no put this person away don’t
62:46
give them bail that’s going to be in the
62:48
back of their head i don’t want this to
62:50
be my willy horton
62:51
i and i don’t even have to make a tough
62:53
decision here all i have to do is say
62:55
hey
62:55
the machine said this person was a risk
62:57
better safe than sorry i
62:59
let the machine do what it does that’s
63:01
why this is a major issue
63:02
sorry go ahead well another another
63:04
reason this is a major issue and i want
63:06
all the tough questions i can’t see the
63:07
comments i i don’t run from
63:10
i like trial by fire because if i don’t
63:12
have a good position
63:14
a criticism could strengthen my view or
63:16
make me realize i have a gap
63:18
so here’s the problem is if you go
63:21
before bail algorithms a lot of times
63:23
you don’t even go into court anymore
63:25
you’re sitting in front of a video
63:26
camera and as
63:28
many attorneys can tell you especially
63:30
if you’re on a public defender they
63:31
don’t actually take the time to look at
63:33
your file
63:34
you’re like you’re just something coming
63:37
down the conveyor belt you’re just
63:38
another case
63:39
and then put someone like me right on
63:42
that who gets arrested for cannabis
63:44
right and i come before you and you’re
63:47
assessing rather i should get cashless
63:49
bail or not
63:50
well the judge looks at it as there is
63:54
no upside to me overriding this
63:56
algorithm
63:57
because if i let him out and he does
64:00
everything right
64:01
that doesn’t make the news however if i
64:05
keep him in jail it never comes against
64:09
me
64:09
but if i let him out and he commits a
64:11
crime
64:12
that’s all over his newspaper there is
64:15
no upside
64:16
and you’re right a judge could override
64:18
it
64:19
but do you want to trust elected
64:21
officials to make the right decision
64:22
and if so i find it weird that you’d be
64:25
listening to a libertarian
64:26
podcast
64:27
[Laughter]
64:29
yeah no they’re definitely you know even
64:32
if you trust them to make the right
64:33
decision
64:34
like you said in this case with as
64:36
little as they know about it
64:38
there’s only one scenario that results
64:41
in
64:42
in anything good or bad the only good
64:44
that happens is if they err on the side
64:46
of caution
64:47
and just let you go to jail because if
64:50
they put their neck out and let you out
64:52
and you do like you said they do nothing
64:54
wrong that’s
64:55
every bit is not any skin off their back
64:57
or any help for them as if they just
64:59
left you in jail but if you do something
65:00
bad it’s all downside
65:02
there’s no other side the designers of
65:04
the algorithms
65:06
are trying to be fair where they do look
65:08
at someone who would not have been a
65:10
risk to society not getting released as
65:12
a negative
65:13
and they are waiting that inside the
65:15
algorithm
65:16
but the difference is is just like when
65:18
i sit down with politicians and i talk
65:20
to them
65:20
and i realize how removed they are from
65:22
what a class x sentence is
65:25
right everybody’s removed from it that’s
65:28
one of the reasons why i’m applying for
65:29
grad school for artificial intelligence
65:31
because like i feel like you can call it
65:33
a universal consciousness you can call
65:35
it god you can call it whatever you want
65:37
i feel like i was put in the
65:39
intersection of these two sets
65:41
where i understand what it’s like to be
65:43
within the criminal justice system
65:45
without necessarily being criminally
65:46
minded but at the same time
65:49
i also was fortunate enough to get to
65:50
stanford where i’m learning how the tech
65:52
works and i’m in this weird position
65:55
where i can see what’s coming and
65:56
there’s very very few people who have
65:58
that same
66:00
uh intersection of prior experience
66:05
i i just want to comment before we go
66:07
any further on
66:09
the level of grace and positivity that
66:12
you have
66:12
you talk about how you’re in a you know
66:14
unique position
66:16
almost as though it’s like this and you
66:18
didn’t say it was a blessing but like
66:20
you know
66:20
oh what what a great thing that i’m in
66:21
this position as a result of you being
66:24
in prison for 15 years
66:25
you were in an incredibly terrible
66:27
situation with uh you know going to jail
66:30
and yet you look at a black man that was
66:31
in a similar situation and go
66:33
wow look at how much better i have it
66:35
than this person because of their lot in
66:37
life
66:38
i have to think that the perspective
66:40
that you have been able to have in life
66:42
is what has allowed you to take what for
66:45
many other people would have crushed
66:46
them and made them never do anything in
66:48
life
66:49
and end up being that statistic of
66:50
recidivism and instead now you’re a
66:53
stanford scholar
66:54
who is trying to you know enact both
66:57
criminal justice reform
66:58
and technology reform at the same time
67:01
let me ask you this
67:03
i know you’re trying to to get a a
67:05
pardon which will also
67:07
completely expunge your debts as a
67:09
result of that has there been any
67:11
progress on that
67:12
where does that stand here’s what here’s
67:14
what happens
67:15
uh i have no problem talking about it i
67:17
usually don’t bring up on my own because
67:19
the thing is is the things that i’m
67:21
arguing for and the changes that need to
67:23
happen
67:24
i never want to diminish the the ability
67:26
to make that argument by making it seem
67:28
like i’m arguing for myself
67:30
what happened was is i had a reporter
67:33
get a hold of me one day
67:35
and i’d filed for a commutation because
67:36
when i was in peoria i had a sheriff
67:39
call me up or uh i had the president of
67:42
the illinois police chief’s union call
67:43
me and be like hey jason
67:45
have you ever thought about putting in
67:46
for a pardon i was like
67:48
no he’s like well if you ever want to
67:50
let me know i’d like to help you i’m
67:52
like
67:52
what he’s like yeah oh by the way do you
67:54
want to meet uh representative busto
67:56
she’s coming down if you just come down
67:58
here i’ll introduce you i’m like
68:00
okay and so then i get
68:03
i i’m talking to people and he’s like if
68:06
you ever put in for a pardon
68:07
i’ll back you and uh so then
68:11
i was talking to somebody at a press
68:12
conference one time and his name is greg
68:14
bishop
68:15
and he asked me if i’d put him for a
68:18
part and i told him i put him for a
68:20
clemency underneath browner and if
68:21
rauner denied a clemency they’re
68:22
definitely not going to hear a pardon
68:24
right right so he i think he called
68:27
rauner’s office and he was like
68:29
hey uh do you guys have any comment on
68:31
this clemency you denied because he’s
68:32
now going to stanford and he’s 268 000
68:35
in debt and i wasn’t there i wasn’t on
68:37
the call but the response i heard was
68:40
call is back they call him back and like
68:42
he calls back like an
68:43
hour and they’re like mr spires is free
68:46
at any time
68:47
to refile for a clemency and we would
68:49
happily consider it
68:51
right so he gets a hold of me and i’m
68:53
like what
68:54
he’s like so the first thing with doing
68:56
my head is
68:58
i said i’m going to stanford i’ll
69:00
probably be okay
69:01
obviously i don’t want to pay 268 000
69:03
funds
69:04
but like as life i’ll be okay i was like
69:08
but i know how much work it takes to
69:10
file this petition
69:11
i said if i go to do it will you cover
69:13
the story
69:15
he says yes i said will you cover the
69:17
entire process
69:18
will you help me show how many barriers
69:21
there are for people who do not know how
69:23
to file
69:24
paperwork to get this done because if
69:27
you realize how hard it is
69:28
maybe they’re sliding an expungement
69:30
procedure into the cannabis legalization
69:32
bill
69:33
making it so people could automatically
69:35
qualify for such
69:36
things so i docu so i file a pardon
69:40
on this premise when i go to follow the
69:42
pardon it requires that you get
69:44
fingerprinted
69:45
i go down to the local sheriff’s office
69:46
to get fingerprinted
69:48
later that day sheriff brian asbell
69:50
calls me up
69:52
i’m like hello he’s like yeah this is
69:54
sure of ass bills this is jason
69:56
yeah he’s like are you filing for a
69:58
pardon i’m like
70:00
yeah he’s like would you care if i
70:02
support you on it
70:03
i can write you a letter i’m like
70:06
go for it and then i established a
70:09
relationship with the sheriff in peoria
70:11
because i was helping do
70:12
you know jail reform there and the
70:14
libertarian party helped me with that
70:16
that’s a whole other story
70:17
um but the bottom line is is now i am
70:20
seeking a pardon it’s been pending
70:22
underneath jb pritzker for over
70:24
two years now he passed the campus
70:27
legalization bill
70:28
he said that we need to help right the
70:30
communities that have have suffered from
70:32
uh the drug laws in the drug war while i
70:35
believe that
70:37
my statistics probably don’t fit the
70:39
community that has been most affected
70:41
i do believe that my story definitely
70:43
fits me being very affected
70:46
and i i i would like to think that jb
70:49
pritzker
70:50
will grant me a pardon and get rid of
70:52
that 200
70:53
do more than that if jb pressure came to
70:56
me and said here’s the deal i have two
70:58
things sitting on my desk i have one pen
71:00
i want you to tell me which one to sign
71:02
i have your pardon sitting on my desk it
71:04
gets rid of your felony it gets rid of
71:06
your 268 000 fines
71:08
or i have the bill on my desk that gets
71:10
rid of six figure fines for people who
71:12
had a non-volatile defense
71:15
you can think i’m lying if you want i
71:17
would tell him to sign that bill
71:19
because i know people right now who are
71:21
saddled with six
71:22
figure fines who are not able to move on
71:26
in life because of it
71:27
they did something and we’re telling
71:29
them as a society move on
71:30
get past it become a better person and
71:32
contribute to society
71:34
oh by the way remember this forever
71:36
quarter million dollars in debt i went
71:38
i cannot name i have to i went to try
71:42
and get an internship at a certain
71:43
defense contractor
71:45
it has to do with artificial
71:47
intelligence i cannot go into too much
71:50
detail
71:51
so i told them about my cannabis
71:53
conviction
71:54
because i was open because i needed to
71:55
get a security clearance they’re like
71:57
that doesn’t matter
71:58
i’m like oh oh no no i went to prison
72:00
forget they’re like yeah no that doesn’t
72:01
matter
72:02
if it’s just cannabis that conviction
72:04
won’t matter even if you went to prison
72:06
we can get you the clearance
72:10
uh unofficially i was kind of told
72:14
why i didn’t get the clearance or why
72:16
they didn’t think i would be able to get
72:18
the clearance therefore i did not get
72:20
the position or the internship
72:22
my 268 thousand dollars in fines makes
72:25
me a risk to be blackmailed by a foreign
72:27
government
72:28
yep because of that yeah yeah so
72:32
i started thinking about that on a
72:33
larger scale
72:35
there might be things that like yeah
72:38
everybody who gets caught and gets these
72:40
fines they ain’t going to end up at
72:41
stanford studying artificial
72:42
intelligence
72:43
trying to make sure that we don’t have
72:44
collateral damage because you sent your
72:46
missile to the wrong house
72:47
they’re not going to be doing that kind
72:49
of stuff but right
72:51
they are going to want to get a house
72:54
and get a wife
72:55
and move on and reintegrate in society
72:58
and take
72:58
pride in being a part of a law abiding
73:01
community
73:02
but then what happens is they go to
73:05
apply for a home loan
73:06
and they have a hundred thousand dollars
73:08
debt they cannot be discharged
73:10
check this one out this makes no sense
73:13
had i taken a baseball bat
73:15
down into the police garage and just
73:17
started
73:18
breaking windows with it i would have
73:20
gotten a restitution fine
73:23
that could be discharged in bankruptcy
73:26
but my fine for cannabis is a punitive
73:28
measure to keep me a lesson
73:30
so that cannot be discharged so check
73:33
that one out
73:34
so i’m hoping that jb pritzker with
73:37
everything he’s doing with his criminal
73:39
justice reform
73:41
will look at my case and not just say i
73:43
deserve a pardon and i deserve those
73:45
fines took it off my record
73:47
i hope he looks at everyone like me that
73:50
has demonstrated they’ve moved forward
73:52
in life
73:53
and says anybody who is taking the steps
73:55
to put their past behind them
73:57
we’re going to push them into their
73:59
future we’re going to take those
74:01
barriers off of them
74:03
i’m not saying that you got to make it
74:05
so that they don’t held responsible for
74:07
it i’m all over the internet everybody
74:09
knows that i got a canvas conviction
74:11
i’m saying make it so they can get home
74:13
loans
74:15
make it so that they can qualify for
74:17
different federal
74:18
programs like the american opportunity
74:20
tax credit remove the conviction you
74:22
don’t have to remove the arrest it can
74:24
still be
74:25
if they commit another crime later on in
74:27
life law enforcement can still use it to
74:30
dictate if it’s possible they could be a
74:32
person of interest all kinds of things
74:33
like that
74:34
nothing that jeopardizes the public
74:35
safety but just make it so that that
74:37
person can continue to move forward in
74:39
their life if they’ve turned away from
74:42
the very things that we’ve asked them to
74:44
no longer do
74:45
you know and absolutely even better than
74:47
that i hope when i
74:48
when i’m doing my master’s program i’ve
74:50
offered
74:51
any state any correction system any
74:54
federal system
74:55
if you want my assistance to help
74:58
implement these algorithms and help
74:59
identify it
75:01
i will do it and i won’t do it to try
75:03
and make money
75:04
i will do it because there is a 19 year
75:07
old kid
75:07
with a tattoo on his neck who was crying
75:10
because he no longer want to be part of
75:12
the gang and i need to make sure
75:14
people can make these distinctions and
75:17
understand
75:18
that just because someone has a tattoo
75:20
on her neck does not mean that they
75:22
cannot be rehabilitated
75:24
and there’s this there’s just yeah
75:27
i’m usually more well spoken than this
75:29
but no no you’re
75:30
you’re listen you’re 100 correct on this
75:33
and and
75:35
this and now i’m a proponent of simply
75:37
ending the war on drugs okay
75:39
it you like you said what like we
75:41
started with all we are doing is
75:43
creating a black market
75:45
that empowers criminal gangs who then
75:47
pay off government officials which leads
75:49
to more corruption and government
75:51
uh and you have you know addicts not
75:53
being able to get help because they
75:54
don’t want to risk uh you know
75:56
prosecution for admitting that they have
75:57
an addiction to something that’s illegal
75:59
you have people that can’t help them
76:00
because
76:01
they don’t want to get in trouble as an
76:02
accessory you have people like you get
76:04
caught up in it and end up you know
76:06
a lot of people in your situation over a
76:08
decade in prison
76:09
quarter million dollars in debt it ruins
76:11
them for the rest of their life you are
76:13
an incredible person
76:14
you are you are an exception to that
76:16
this is very important and i add because
76:17
i’ve had a bunch of people say this to
76:19
me they’ve came to me and said jason
76:21
that’s great
76:22
but you are an anomaly we don’t actually
76:24
do that to people on a big scale
76:26
and i’m like yes we
76:29
do yes we do and you’re removed from it
76:33
i can name people right now who also
76:35
paul miller got 28 years for cannabis as
76:38
a non-violent offender
76:39
in illinois shane crutchfield got a 40
76:42
year sentence for a couple ounces of
76:43
cocaine
76:44
uh angelo i think his name is angela
76:47
diaz got 55 years in federal prison
76:50
because he sold cannabis with a gun on
76:52
himself rand paul is argued to help that
76:54
guy out
76:55
like it’s there’s just so much stuff and
76:58
and i met
76:59
i met i met uh russ the guy who started
77:03
up silk road i met his mother
77:06
my heart russell yeah
77:09
it broke my heart i was on a show with
77:12
her and i heard about her son
77:14
and i’m gonna tell you this this is what
77:15
it ties into tech
77:18
anything that’s violent with that guy
77:19
was never proven they didn’t even pursue
77:22
the charges they just
77:23
he didn’t beat him the state didn’t even
77:25
say we know it and we just couldn’t
77:26
prove it
77:27
the state dropped it the state said yeah
77:29
we’re not even pursuing this
77:31
so here’s the thing tech is the future
77:33
and we’re using tech to
77:35
implement these ai algorithms and what
77:37
you’re doing is you’re going to scare
77:38
off the very people who have the ability
77:40
to make technological changes to help
77:42
make this world safer and better by
77:44
getting rid of legal marketplaces
77:46
be so afraid to do it because they’re
77:48
going to look at russ and say he’s doing
77:50
a life sentence
77:52
do we really want to stifle innovation
77:54
that could make society a better place
77:56
because they can point to that guy and
77:58
go i don’t want to be him
78:00
exactly exactly and i was hoping so bad
78:04
trump would commute his sentence
78:06
i’m even okay with the conviction his
78:07
mom might be upset that i’d say that but
78:09
he should have at least got a
78:10
commutation
78:12
i agree i agree 100 i’ve been a very
78:14
strong proponent about
78:16
i believe he needs a full pardon at the
78:17
very least needs to be out there’s
78:19
he’s he’s done many years there’s no
78:21
reason for it
78:22
he had a website where things happened
78:24
that were illegal he did not do the
78:25
illegal things
78:26
if you applied that logically that would
78:28
mean that the owners of facebook and
78:30
ebay and craigslist and
78:32
and twitter and every other site were
78:34
illegal i will give you a better one
78:35
than that
78:36
we all agree that or not all agree most
78:38
people agree that trump
78:40
used twitter in a way that agitated
78:43
things that happened on january 6th
78:45
in the in the nation’s capital so
78:49
uh should twitter go to prison because
78:51
they allowed a guy on their platform who
78:53
made a dangerous statement
78:54
i think twitter has even said that they
78:56
removed the guy right
78:58
but here’s the thing it doesn’t matter
79:00
if they removed them
79:01
it happened it happened and and and the
79:05
bottom line is
79:06
they don’t i would like twitter to try
79:08
and make the argument to me that no no
79:10
no no
79:10
in all of his previous tweets we knew
79:13
trump was not
79:14
not unstable at all we knew he was a
79:16
genius everything would be fine we had
79:18
no indication to think that there’d be a
79:19
worry
79:20
that something would be a problem yep
79:22
and i’m not mad at twitter twitter did
79:24
the
79:24
you know i’m not mad at twitter by
79:26
letting them have it what i’m saying is
79:28
is you’re scaring off a lot of people
79:30
that could use innovation to make this
79:31
world a bunch better place and make
79:34
less victims get created because you’re
79:37
focusing on
79:38
i’m against people doing a drug instead
79:40
of realizing
79:41
anti-prohibition i’m against people
79:44
having this site
79:45
instead of realizing technological
79:47
innovation you know like yep
79:50
absolutely absolutely i got i got one
79:52
more question for you you have been
79:53
a fantastic guest that the the
79:55
commenters are just
79:56
honestly they haven’t even had questions
79:58
they’re just saying how fantastic you
79:59
are one question they have had and it’s
80:01
one i wanted to ask you as well
80:02
as you know we now have a new president
80:04
he was the architect of the war on drugs
80:07
but he is our new president uh prior to
80:10
the senate election in georgia
80:12
uh and after the uh presidential
80:14
election but prior to
80:15
the senate election in georgia uh
80:18
congressional democrats introduced the
80:20
moore
80:20
act um which did not uh it passed in the
80:23
in the house and died in the senate
80:25
there is a possibility that this will
80:28
now
80:28
that this act will will pass there’s
80:30
also a possibility they’ll never
80:32
introduce it
80:32
because it was a cynical play to win in
80:34
georgia but that’s a whole other subject
80:36
do you think that it will pass and if so
80:38
do you know much about it and if it will
80:40
positively affect any of the things that
80:42
you’re trying to push for
80:45
i’m overwhelmed with remote online
80:47
classes at stanford right now
80:49
but i’m vaguely familiar with what
80:50
you’re talking about but the statement i
80:52
would like to make
80:53
as joe biden is he helped pass the brady
80:56
bill in the 80s and a lot of people like
80:57
to point that out
80:59
but don’t and here’s why
81:02
because the guy went on tv and he said
81:05
that he’s sorry for it
81:06
and if you firmly believe that i should
81:09
be given the opportunity
81:11
to be judged for my actions today as a
81:13
39 year old
81:15
then you need to say okay it’s possible
81:17
over the last 25 years
81:19
biden had to change your heart then nail
81:22
him to the cross when he does something
81:23
wrong
81:24
i’m not saying don’t criticize him i’m
81:26
saying if the guy
81:27
starts saying the right thing give him
81:30
credit
81:31
one of the things that i i talk to a
81:33
girl i know about is she used to not buy
81:35
a certain brand of cookies because they
81:36
used palm oil and she was against it
81:38
so then they came out with this other
81:39
brand of their cookies where they didn’t
81:41
use palm oil
81:42
and and she said i’m not buying those
81:44
because they make other cookies that
81:45
make pommel and i said wait a minute
81:47
they were doing a practice you didn’t
81:49
like
81:51
in regards to you not liking it they
81:53
created a brand new product and said
81:54
we’re going to try and do this
81:56
so they’re now doing what you want them
81:58
to do and you’re not going to
81:59
incentivize and support that
82:02
if you want to incentivize and support
82:04
good behaviors continuing
82:07
sometimes you look at what they’re doing
82:08
today
82:10
and then criticize them for them not
82:11
living up to what they should be doing
82:13
versus something that they’ve already
82:15
said yeah you’re right i was wrong
82:18
yep absolutely yeah no we should
82:20
absolutely be pushing for them
82:22
to do things today and if they don’t do
82:24
it like you said hold their feet to the
82:26
fire on it i agree with you 100
82:27
jason uh uh jason you have been a
82:30
fantastic guest i’m so happy that
82:32
to have had you on before i let you go i
82:34
want to give you a chance
82:36
to say whatever it is you feel like you
82:38
didn’t have a chance to say
82:40
promote anything you want to you can
82:41
talk some more about uh make cannabis
82:43
not matter
82:44
um whatever else you want to talk about
82:46
uh you are free to do it
82:48
jason spires the floor is yours uh you
82:52
can find me on facebook i have a page
82:54
called
82:54
three zero years for cannabis you can
82:56
also send me a message on facebook
82:58
messenger if you wanna get a hold of me
83:01
if i was to say anything it’s when you
83:03
listen to my story
83:05
forget that i’m white forget that i’m
83:08
clean cut
83:09
and forget that i speak well and forget
83:11
that i was able to explain the situation
83:14
and then remember when the person
83:15
standing before you who does not have
83:17
all those things
83:19
might have the same heart and the same
83:21
intentions that i do
83:23
and just not the same skills to be able
83:24
to explain it so if you want to help me
83:27
out
83:28
just give a seedling of faith to the
83:30
next person
83:31
who says that they want a second chance
83:34
and then
83:35
if they mess up nail them to the cross
83:38
but give them that evening of faith
83:40
absolutely jason thank you so much for
83:42
coming on the website is
83:44
make cannabis not matter dot com
83:47
uh jason thanks so much stick around uh
83:48
i’m gonna talk with you during the outro
83:50
folks thank you so much for tuning in to
83:52
this episode of my fellow americans
83:54
uh i hope you enjoyed it as much as i
83:56
did i think it was fantastic and it just
83:58
drives home how much we need to reform
84:00
the criminal justice system and and
84:01
really just end the war on drugs but
84:03
uh be sure to tune in next week uh on
84:06
tuesday
84:07
for uh my uh the muddy waters of freedom
84:09
uh where matt wright and i will be
84:10
parsing through the very first week of
84:12
joe biden being president
84:14
uh and then tune it again right back
84:16
here uh wednesday night same spike place
84:19
same spike time for my fellow americans
84:21
my guest will be chris roofer
84:23
who is a libertarian businessman who has
84:25
come up with an absolutely
84:28
revolutionary innovative system uh for
84:30
for
84:31
uh basically for running uh uh his how
84:34
his employees work it’s a manager-less
84:36
system
84:37
there are no managers it’s just directly
84:38
from the employees
84:40
making decisions for themselves i can’t
84:42
even adequately explain it tune in next
84:44
week you’re gonna love it it’s it is
84:46
uh uh as a businessman i find it beyond
84:49
fascinating
84:50
uh and uh and and and i i think it’s
84:52
gonna be a great episode but
84:54
folks thanks again for tuning in we will
84:56
see you uh next tuesday oh and next
84:58
monday
84:58
uh tune in for uh the uh the culture
85:01
winning i will be interviewing
85:03
i don’t remember hold on i can tell you
85:06
one second let me pull up the calendar
85:07
i do this every week i forget who my
85:09
guest is uh joe hartman i will be he is
85:11
an elected official
85:12
uh a libertarian and we will be talking
85:15
with him next week
85:16
uh but folks thanks again so much for
85:18
tuning in to this episode of my film
85:19
americans
85:20
i’m spike cohen and you are the power
85:24
god bless guys
85:28
[Music]
85:39
[Music]
85:52
so
85:54
[Music]
86:08
[Music]
86:10
[Applause]
86:23
[Music]
86:35
at the least slightly like-minded indeed
86:38
the life i’ve lived brings light to
86:40
kindness
86:41
all you need is a sign put a cease to
86:43
the crimes
86:44
put an ease to the minds like mine
86:47
sometimes darkness is all i find
86:49
you know what they say about an eye for
86:50
a night in a time when they’re blind
86:52
who am i to deny with ground when a
86:54
loved one dies i recognize that body
86:56
outside with a hoes in the body that was
86:58
alive
86:58
now find out how but you never know why
87:02
it ain’t even make it
87:27
[Music]
87:31
when you watch them on the losing side
87:33
don’t tell me how
87:34
tell me what
87:46
[Music]
87:52
make the changes
88:00
[Music]
88:04
we will make
88:19
[Music]
88:35
you