Mr Bearded Truth – 46 – All things bail with Spike Cohen

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thank you hello and welcome to Mr America the
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bearded truth covering political and social issues One Liberty at a time with
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entertaining insights of current events and important discussions on topics that affect us all shining the torch of
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Liberty and brightening the future by bringing libertarianism into our everyday life and now your host the
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friendly neighborhood libertarian Jason Lyon Mr America the favorite shoes on
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muddied Waters well hello everybody it’s another
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wonderful beautiful amazing Friday and I’ve got one hell of a guest for you guys today I’m gonna I’m Gonna
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Change up things a little bit normally we stay here and talk through the advertisements and we talk about how amazing are our um both co-owners of
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Muddy Waters media are but today we might as well just bring one of them on Spike how’s it going today man
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I’m doing fantastic Jason thanks for having me on man absolutely so today
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I’m gonna go through all the housekeeping this way when you have your your background commentary they get to
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hear it live uh it’s gonna be censored in because we know nah I’m not even gonna get into
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that yes it’s Spike Cohen uh welcome in D so today yes this is Muddy Waters media
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production which means that you can find this episode and every other episode on muddywarsmedia.com
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go check that out uh gotta get Stephen on updating some of those episodes I’m gonna get him on that
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this weekend we definitely need to get Steven on that yeah Steven what a slacker that blasted
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Steven but I want to thank you guys for joining us uh normally every episode is Friday at 8pm Eastern but today we’ve
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got a double header you have the one and only amazing I’m learning I’m like tilting my hand so I know which way to
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point got this amazing guy here of course 5 p.m Eastern ish Eastern yeah you got this down see
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the real Pro here and then tonight at eight o’clock we
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have the one and only Tom Gallagher coming on he’s from Minnesota he’s a defense attorney for 34 years so he’s
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got a lay of the land he’s gonna be talking about jury jury power during nullification specifically and so it’s
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gonna be a great incredible conversation so today learning about the cash bail system how it’s broken and uh how we can
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fix it um with Spike Cohen and of course Tom Gallagher later on wherever you guys are
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watching this whether you guys are watching this live with me as spike is is ready for the first and and first of
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many dad jokes to come down the way um and whether you’re watching us on Facebook on YouTube on Twitter on Twitch
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wherever however you watch this live thank you so much for doing that and if you’re not catching this live but you want to catch us live on the podcast
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we’re on all your favorite podcast platforms make sure you guys like subscribe hit the notification Bells
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have your phones blow up every time that we go live so you can see Spike’s disappointed face
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um I I I’m not even gonna give them the joke that I gave you guys earlier we almost didn’t have a show ladies and gentlemen
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Spike almost quit on me yeah I almost quit not just this show
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but all of muddied waters media on the strength of one dad joke that this guy wanted to draw
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before we even went live it wasn’t even a curveball so I mean it was like a softball under hit it was it was
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effectively with Spike code pitching on the mound it was just this soft little little toss wow that
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would be a heater down the middle so hot that the catcher isn’t even able to
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catch it um that’s real that’s real and true so one thing one thing to tell you about
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Spike so I I texted your your your Handler if you will today I said well I’m an idiot because with this double
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header today you know what would make that better going and getting dental work today so half of well half of my
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face the lower half of my face is completely numb right now so if I start sounding like I have a stroke don’t
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worry if ladies and gentlemen it’s it’s gonna wear off soon
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um but today we have a lot of
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ah you know what I’m gonna do I’m gonna schedule dental work
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and then right after that I’m gonna do two episodes of my show yes
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determination uh I’ve already punted the the appointment a couple times so I was like you know what time to time to dig
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in and see what we’re made of yeah yeah let’s live dangerously yeah so we have
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some events coming up that I want to discuss before we get into to today’s topic
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um because you and I both have been invited of course coming down in November November
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8th anyone who is in the Brevard County area you guys gotta go and check us out
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uh we’ll be at LP Brevard um down there on Melbourne at the
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uh the I don’t even know how to pronounce that the the zoo there Brevard Zoo Nami Nami
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um you don’t know how to pronounce zoo no no no no the the n-y-a-m-i anyways oh oh
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what what on this can you not pronounce that is Brevard Zoo that is oh that’s a
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tough oh man it’s about a curveball yeah yeah me oh flawless flawless Victory
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there for spycon yeah I mean yummy how you say that you definitely say
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yammy anyways you guys could check us there November 8th that’s gonna be an
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incredible time both Spike myself and Jordan Marlowe will be speaking keynote speakers and of course Shelley the
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Brazilian porcupine will be there um but I think that there’s something happening the week before that I wanted
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to give you uh give you an opportunity to talk about I think it’s actually two weeks before
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I’m gonna do a typical muddied Waters media move and look at my calendar uh to
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let’s see here uh so uh so that is on November
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eight so one two two three weeks before that uh actually
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no almost four weeks before that wow three and a half weeks you know some people
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would say that it’s better to just say what the dates are but I’m not gonna do that I’m gonna do it based on how many
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what what number of weeks it is prior to another event that’s completely
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unrelated uh so yeah so uh yeah you have to sign up for the gala and then you have to do the math to go back you have
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to you have to do the math I’m not telling you when this other thing is but there is an event roughly 3.7 weeks
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prior to uh the uh the golden Galler at yummy yummy uh in uh on on October 14th
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and 15th I will be in Miami uh Florida for the Liberty con event uh hosted by
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students for Liberty it’s going to be an absolutely awesome event some of the biggest speakers in the Liberty Movement are going to be there from all around
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the world not just America from the entire world uh I’m gonna be one of them representing America and uh and I will
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be we would love to have you come I’m going to be hosting I’m going to be participating in a debate on uh
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libertarianism versus progressivism uh with a very prominent twitch streamer
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Named Destiny uh who I don’t I I’ve actually I’ve heard of Destiny but I don’t know much about him but I’m going
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to school him on on Liberty and uh if you want to come and be a part of this if you go to libertycon.com uh and uh if
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you use the code Spike s-p-i-k-e that’s how you spell Spike uh you can get I
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want to say 50 off but I don’t remember yes you get a per you get as much as 50
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off the cost you’re not gonna believe just how much you get off the price of
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admittance uh of entry for the Liberty con event uh libertycon.com to see all
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the other speakers that are going to be there um but that doesn’t matter I’m gonna be yeah no I’m yeah it’s Miami and if you
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Miami also before that is the celebritarian boat cruise and if you go to the Facebook page celebratorian you
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can find out all about the uh the boat Crews we’re doing so if you’re there representing America
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do you get a are you gonna be repping Mr America the bearded truth gear what are you doing this I will be Mr Mr America
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the mildly stumbled truth
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hmm you know that that deserves a couple more dad jokes if you guys are in the
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comments section and you want your dad jokes heard don’t worry whether they’re
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good or bad today’s the episode that you will have it’s it’s gonna be similar to
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to if there’s a new submit your dad jokes Jason please when you tell the dad
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jokes let me know who’s who they came from so I can block them on all social media and report them for um
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I don’t know hate speech or something well so we should have renamed this episode and I messed it up because this
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there’s a there’s a local group here right and it’s it’s for people who are
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interested in performing autopsy so it’s like you know amateur autopsy groups and
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so you know I’m really excited because we should have named this will we have our event for this Saturday which is open mic night
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yeah Jason I laughs
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it’s not even night time so that’s technically not accurate No
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it’s first Saturday night open right
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It’s Five O’Clock Somewhere it’s fine here
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here oh gosh bail so
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drop your uh dad jokes you guys will get them heard here on Muddy Waters media that is an exclusive now before we get
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into that show this bike can talk about cash bail we gotta give a shout out and a thank
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you to Kelsey lion designs that’s right if you guys are looking for new logos branding business cards Publications whatever you need from a graphic
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designer standpoint uh you guys gotta head over to kelseylion.design or kelseylinedesigns.com she’s going to
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hook you up she’s taking care of so many people in this Liberty Movement already that will vouch for her each and every day because they love all that for sure
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too I’ll voucher and he does as well it was almost like I forced him to do that but
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no question um kelseylinedesigns.com head on over there use the code Muddy Waters she’s going to
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hook up with a discount and for this month helping out with suicide awareness and
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QPR um if you guys make if you guys get any
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work done through her this month she is going to be donating some of those proceeds some of the money to uh to
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Suicide Prevention uh causes I don’t remember exactly which organization that was so get in there help it out
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kelseylanddesigns.com but yeah Spike before we get into more dad jokes so cash bail
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you know the purpose of this episode let’s talk briefly about cash bail well I
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you clearly were not in the conversations with this planet it was hey Brian I want to have an episode where we do nothing but bad jokes and
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he’s like well we got to give a cover and I said cash bail and he said sounds great let’s do this
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um it’s you know what before we get into that
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here was here’s Brian Scott lambrick’s contributions for the show when will a priest laugh at your Friday
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joke when it’s a good Friday joke now
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are you gonna block Brian now you yeah what yeah which will make my schedule
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much more easy that there’s a twofer there in addition to not having to hear that
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that anymore I also won’t have to worry about any interviews
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or events ever again there we go I’m solving your problems for you after being just a normal guy yeah so cash so
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the bail system is is you know it’s it’s clearly a part of the process for a lot of countries we’re one of two
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Nations seamless transition right seamless I love how we’re both like shifted to the left side of our cameras
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anyway I’m like nudging closer to you and you’re like I’m I’ve got to get out of
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this kid away from you I don’t want to be near okay the audio listeners only
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are going to be like we have to watch this episode now you too can follow this and watch this on Facebook YouTube
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Twitter twitch well yes I don’t know um so this is definitely one you want to
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watch definitely so the cash bail system is something that we have in this nation
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as well as in the Philippines nowhere else do they really have this the structuring in the way that we have it but
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um for the audience somebody who’s just coming in and being like hey I’m and I’m interested in politics let alone
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libertarianism what is how does what does bail how does it work what’s the purpose of it
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right so I mean broadly speaking obviously the purpose of cash bail uh as
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intended when it was first introduced in like the 1890s was to keep to prevent
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people from not returning to trial right like there’s the idea uh that you are
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arrested and indicted for something but you may not be able to have the trial right away and so rather than holding
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you uh they they allow you to go home on your own recognizance uh so that you can
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still continue working because you’re presumed innocent until proven guilty but the idea was well if you know if if
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we can just let them go then they uh then they’ll never come back
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so they came up with this idea of well we’ll take money from them you know we’ll we’ll make them post a cash bail
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and then in order to you know when they come back to trial they’ll get the money back and that that was the idea of that
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well so we now have the benefit of over a hundred years of data to show that
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there are other things other programs that work like Court reminder systems and things like that that have every bit
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as uh low or high however you want to put it the same rate of uh of people not
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showing up to trial same rate of people showing up to trial as having a cash bail system uh and what also happens is
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you have to look at what has happened since the cash bail program has happened which is that it’s basically you know we
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we say that a fine for something means that something is legal at a price well cash bail means that you’re allowed to
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uh plead not guilty uh to a crime and and not plea to it if you’re if you can
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afford to get out otherwise you have to just sit in jail for however many months or even years it takes for your trial to
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come up and so it’s just been proven that it’s not a it isn’t it I know we’ll get more into details on it but it’s
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just not a good system it has led to massive amounts of cronyism and it has also led to many many people pleading
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down to charges to on crimes that they that they maintained they didn’t commit just because they needed to be able to
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get home they couldn’t they couldn’t stay in prison uh for six months or two years imagine you know we often make
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these things abstract and we don’t think about it from the standpoint of the person that’s being subjected so just
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picture yourself whoever’s listening to this or watching this imagine that right now uh you get someone comes to your
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house uh with a warrant for your arrest and says you’re under arrest for this crime and you say I didn’t do this crime
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and they go well we have a warrant for your arrest and so you’re taken to jail where you’re told uh you have to stay in
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this Jail uh unless you post bail you have to stay in this jail for
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as much as six months to a year now just picture for a moment what it would look like for you being stuck in
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jail for six months yeah unable to leave and now imagine if you couldn’t afford
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that bail and you’re thinking okay I can’t afford the bail I gonna lose my
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job I’m gonna my family is gonna you know grow distant over time getting sick
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of having to visit me people are gonna assume that I’m the bad guy uh there are going to be Facebook posts from the
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police department explaining how I committed this crime while I can’t respond in any way I’m screwed and then
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every single day you’ve got someone coming to you saying well if you plea down to this lesser crime uh then you
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get to go home and no trial and yeah you you’ll get be able to do time served or
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spend a few more days in jail but then you get to go home you’ll have a criminal record for something you didn’t do but you get to go home that happens
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we don’t even know how many times it’s hard to count how often that happens but it happens a lot probably thousands of
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times every week yeah no absolutely and that’s that’s a such a big thing and um
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Eskimo libertarian has a comment for that because you know putting yourself in a circumstance of somebody who is
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accused of arson right whether they were guilty or not but going through this process of well you know they got
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arrested so now they’re sitting in the process it’s similar to kind of like what the difference between bird flu and
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Swine Flu would be and that is of course that you know one requires treatment the other one requires anointment
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if you’re gonna tell these jokes at least you know don’t laugh until after you’ve finished telling them I can’t
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these are gold they’re pure gold over here but anyway so so in a serious note
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um you know I now support not just cash bail but only for
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um for dad jokes which are now I support being a crime as well
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um I also support the death penalty but again just for just for dad jokes
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um two comments they say they say that dad jokes are a victimless crime but
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these these crimes have a victim so two two comments number one was you
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you were quoted earlier today as saying Jason stick to the dad jokes
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um
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and number two so back to the to the bail system
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um you know proponents of having this bail system be the way that they are
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is because if you’re out on bail you’re like stairs you’re always up to something
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look
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people are in jail and
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folks I’d like to apologize I back in 2018
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a fresh-faced young man reached out to me and said he really liked what we were
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doing with Muddy Waters media and he had a new show but he was thinking of airing
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it on a certain day and it was going to be at the same time as ours and he didn’t want us to think
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uh that you know he was gonna try to take our audience and so he was going to
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change it to Monday and after talking with my my co-host and business partner
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Matt we reached out to this man and we said well hey how would you like to be on Muddy Waters media
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and the reign of terror that this man has uh inflicted on uh
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well me uh but really everyone um
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well I I’m just I’m sorry and uh I’m not going to admit legal culpability uh but
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I will admit uh ethical and moral culpability but not legal do not sue me do not assume it’s justifiable so I’m
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I’m thinking this is the best episode we’ve had on money Partners media yet um in the entire in the entire franchise
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yeah if you’re if you’re in the chat and you guys think that this is one of your favorite episodes so far hearing all these dad jokes and watching Spike just
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be filled with joy with each and every one of them and trust me there’s a lot more that people have been adding that
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will try to sprinkle throughout this the rest of the show um
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if this has been one of your favorite episodes put one in the chat for me please um so you know
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you are America’s favorite Jew and speaking these Segways are just like hey speaking
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of which sorry go ahead yeah how did how does
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Moses make his coffee this one one that’s five
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um did I lose you guys you guys back they’re freezing again I’m out here
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oh it was the streaming um so you have people that are their families are being disrupted their workflow is being
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disrupted they’re losing you know they’re getting behind on payments they lost their jobs there’s there’s just so
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many different ways that these people are being impacted and so the question always is is it’s not enough just to say
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that the current system is bad in the way that it’s structured but what is it that we can how do we move forward
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what’s the What’s the progress forward right what do we replace it with and the biggest objections right because there’s
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a a legitimate or at least there was a legitimate reason for the idea behind cash bail if someone has been charged
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with a crime yes they are innocent until proven guilty and they should be able to leave but we need to make sure they come
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back again we now know that there are things like Court reminders or just the
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fact that they could have a bench warrant and getting exponentially more trouble by not just showing up for the
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trial because a lot of this stuff is like misdemeanors and things like that you know people think cash bail when
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they start thinking of like rape and murder well in many cases those people aren’t released at all because they’re
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considered a potential threat to the public um so we’re talking about stuff like like or Flight Risk and all exactly a
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flight risk or a risk to uh to you know hurt to offend again or to hurt the the people that have accused them or
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something like that you know we’re talking about stuff like accused of shoplifting or accused of uh of petty
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larceny which can petty larceny can be urine argument with someone and you take their bike from them and you hold it and
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say you know you’re not going anywhere until we talk about and then you get hit with a larceny charge for stealing the
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bike even though you gave it back like I mean the these are the kinds of things that people are being held for and
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instead of just saying okay we’re going to remind you of your court date and you better show up or else now you got some
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serious trouble going on uh instead they will hold them for uh for however many
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days weeks or months it takes before they finally just plea down because they can’t afford to cash bail and one of the
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most terrible uh examples of that was a man in New York city named Khalif Browder and he was accused of stealing
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uh someone’s backpack and I think the backpack was worth like 60 or something like that he was accused of stealing
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someone’s backpack and he said I I didn’t do it I refused to um I’m not
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going to plead guilty I didn’t do it and so they sent him to Rikers Island which is a the one of the jails in New York
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City city which the conditions of Rikers you’ve probably heard the name Rikers Island Rikers Island is worse than many
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prisons and the only difference between that jail and and prisons is every
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single person in there is Presumed Innocent these are people that haven’t even been convicted of anything yet
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including Khalif and he refused to uh to uh to to plea to anything he could not
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afford the cash bail and so he was held for 22 months
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now to put that in perspective even if they had thrown the book at him for uh
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for Steve if they had found him guilty and thrown the book at him for stealing this backpack the punishment would have been nowhere near that he probably would
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have never had any jail time or if it was it would have been time served or 30 days or something like that he would
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have had whatever fine and restitution he spent 22 months in jail now because
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he was in jail for 22 months for a crime he maintains he didn’t commit and could not leave uh he uh you know got in some
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trouble uh and the trouble was basically not not uh listening to the guards as
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far as we can tell he never had any kind of violent incidents he would just he was being difficult well how would you
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be if you were in jail for a crime you did not commit and could not leave it unless you pled guilty to something that
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you didn’t do so he spent something like 80 percent of that time in solitary
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confinement in a cage by himself for up to 20 three
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and a half hours a day for a crime he did not that he maintained he did not commit now finally
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at some point 22 months in because they were going to do this for many months more who knows how much longer uh a uh a
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judge finally looked at his case and said this is getting thrown out he’s already been punished far more than if
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he had actually done it and unfortunately not long after he was set free Khalif killed himself
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um this was a an absolutely brutal thing so going back to your question of of what to replace it with we know that the
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reminder system which has been used in places like Baltimore and other places has been every bit as effective uh or
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ineffective depending on how you look at the data in getting people to show up to their court dates cash bail doesn’t do
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it uh people will say but what about the more dangerous people what about the the rapists and the murderers and whatever
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if these aren’t people that are typically getting cash bail these are people that are usually either being
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deemed a Flight Risk uh or a risk to reoffend or to harm people uh so that’s
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not really in in the cards here but we can say that if there is someone that can be proven to be a real threat to the
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public and a judge determines that they should be held anyway like if there’s a real risk of them hurting someone then
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they should be held or under some kind of um conditional house arrest with an
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anklet or something like that none of that requires cash bail cash bail is saying okay we’re going to presume you
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innocent for a price we’re going to let you go home until trial for a price otherwise you’ve either got to work with
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us or we’re going to punish you far more than we you would have if you would just pled guilty yeah and
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where it’s really interesting right so you’d already said that it’s it’s basically legal for a fee so you know if
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you have the money you could do this um but that goes into another thing where um you know if you’re walking down
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the street and you see a bike laying on the ground because you know it was so exhausted because it was too tired
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um but you picked that up and somebody gets you for A Larson
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somebody gets you for larceny now you go to you’re sitting in jail and you’re
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waiting during this time when you could post that cash bail if you do not have those funds if you don’t have the
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network to make that happen you can go to a bail bondsman now the thing is is that you know you’re paying 10 of a fee
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to somebody for your freedom the rest of the bond which you don’t get back yeah you don’t get that 10 back so you that’s
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not this isn’t this is a system where it’s this is largely supported by police
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unions and is supported by people who are gaining there’s a benefit here for this cash bail system
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um you know and oftentimes this is attributed to of course to capitalism these are of course your Progressive
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um or these are your your Thin Blue liners if you will that is just like corporate greed
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um that’s protecting it but it’s the corporatism there that is protecting these people from continuing to get
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several billion dollars each and every year here just through those fees
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yeah so one of the original rent-seeking crony corporations in this country were
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the bail bondsmen these were people that had their entire industry was built on saying ah you know what if you give me
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10 I’ll float the bond but you don’t get that 10 back and then what we’ve seen is after that happened the price of the
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Bales went up so now yeah 10 is probably close to what it was originally before
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the bail bondsman got involved because the courts are thinking okay well worst case scenario they lose their 10 percent
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they’re gonna flee anyway we better knock the bail price up so that didn’t help anyone and so that’s an additional
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punishment for being poor because if I’m wealthy enough that I can afford afford to pay the bond and then come back or
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pay the bail myself and then come back I get a hundred percent of my money back but if I’m poor enough that I can’t
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afford it and I have to use a bail bondsman I don’t get my money back I don’t get that 10 back so that’s an
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additional punishment these are regressive taxes on again presumed innocent people these are people that
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have not been proven guilty uh in at all in fact in some cases some of them haven’t even been like indicted or
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arraigned yet they’ve just been arrested so the the no I guess with with bail if if they’ve been bail they’ve they’ve
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been indicted and so forth but the the bottom line is that this is a bad system a demonstrably bad system and it also
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again this is what is used and weaponized uh By A system that is
30:46
designed to maximize the amount of arrests detentions prosecutions or
30:52
convictions and people being in prison is designed to over criminalize people
30:58
and get as many people in jail as possible because all of the incentives in the criminal justice system are not
31:03
built around finding out whether someone did it or not they’re built around maximizing uh the budget justifying the
31:11
maximum budgets and and job increases in the criminal justice system and all of that is built around arrests prosecution
31:19
convictions and people being put in jail and as long as that is the way it is everything is going to be built around
31:25
that so a way to fix this is just if someone is a danger to
31:31
a potential and demonstrable danger to themselves or others uh or a a serious
31:38
Flight Risk including the wealthy because the wealthy typically are the biggest Flight Risk because they can just leave uh never come back then keep
31:46
them or or put them on conditional house uh arrest with an anklet or something like
31:51
that but but don’t charge them for their freedom yeah and if they’re not a flight
31:56
risk or a threat to others let them go until trial
32:02
and if the response to that is well but the trial could take two or three years that’s your problem yeah stop having a
32:11
justice system that takes two or three years before you get to trial maybe we tried not sucking and that would be a
32:17
good way forward for that yeah no if you know like that whole speedy trial part of the Constitution was a was a
32:23
matter for them but you know we can ignore that document uh you know you during that you were
32:29
talking a little bit and I think that we need to have a dad jokes episode number two no the bargaining Edition and uh because
32:38
the plea bargaining system is one of those that’s a whole yeah that’s a whole thing so too
32:45
The Plea the plea bargain system is uh is is a a huge problem because again if
32:53
you are it’s it’s coupled with cash bail like you can’t really decouple them when you’re trying to determine like what the
32:59
problem is here the problem is you have poor people that are being arrested for crimes that they may or may not have
33:05
committed I mean I’m not saying they’re all innocent and they’re I’m sure many of them uh are are aren’t innocent
33:11
they’re they’re guilty of that uh but what happens is they are being put in jail and told we’re holding you for
33:18
months years whatever it takes for a crime that the punishment’s nowhere near that uh even if they were guilty and
33:24
then all along the way they’re told oh you can’t afford to get out well if you plea down to this we’ll let you go well now they’ve got a criminal record and so
33:32
the next time they get arrested and run through the system they gotta plea to something even worse or they’re gonna do
33:37
jail serious jail time and thankfully in in at least most of the states the three strikes laws and the the um you know
33:44
life imprisonment that’s off the table but that was I mean you had people serving life in prison because they kept
33:49
getting popped with these things that they didn’t do and kept having to plea down to stuff so I mean it’s it’s a huge
33:54
huge problem and it’s just as simple as if someone is a flight risk or a danger they should be kept or held on some kind
34:00
of conditional house arrest or something like that and if they’re not let them go try them when it’s time to try them but
34:07
let them go they’re innocent until they’re proven guilty absolutely and it’s one of those things
34:12
that like we look at uh if somebody has a job and they were accused of a crime they should be able
34:18
to maintain their job because that job is not just for their sanity right nobody is going to work like I love going to work
34:24
um right you know spike is here at his job right now and he is suffering through this episode so everyone please
34:30
show them some love for that um and I don’t get paid I don’t get paid so like literally this is um this is
34:37
kind of like a type of cash bail uh system where where
34:43
it it it’s it’s a type of unlawful and indefinite detention where I’m I I I
34:50
can’t pay anyone to get out of this so it’s not even cash bail it’s some it’s really it’s just like um it’s like the
34:55
extraordinary rendition that was done to uh domestic Terror suspects shortly after 9 11. that that’s what this feels
35:02
like this is like waterboarding basically this is my Abu grade
35:11
but this no not gonna use that one um no I’m I’m refraining from using
35:18
jokes on you right now you should be you should be that’s good for this um I like that energy
35:24
yeah like a refraining from making these jokes energy mama raised a quitter so I’m gonna quit on refraining from those
35:30
here in a second um so what’s the advantage of living in Switzerland well the flag is a big plus um so anyways
35:39
where was that two years ago oh it was
35:45
it where was that that could have worked that could have
35:51
landed um during that campaign that that could have landed
35:57
um it still did it was it was a hit amongst half of the show
36:03
if you so
36:10
with the when it comes to when it comes to these things right as you said it’s if you’re not a Flight Risk if you’re
36:16
not a danger to society yeah let people go one of the interesting things that I found looking into some of the
36:22
statistics around this is that and it it does go into the plea
36:27
bargaining as well is that how many people are being held on cash cash bail is actually as disproportionately more
36:34
for women than it is for men um based on interesting yeah it was like
36:40
if you if you if you so you can’t go by numbers of course because the men far outweigh how many women are in there
36:46
yeah but but if you’re looking at by percentage-wise more women are compared
36:51
to men um and it was wow yeah because if you think about it when we look at the way
36:58
that that crimes are being looked at through the system first of all men are treated much more harshly through the
37:03
criminal justice system so they’re more likely to take away that opportunity for them
37:08
um so there’s a little bit of a gender uh disproportionality there but it’s also the crimes are being committed yeah
37:14
we hear about some of the the we hear about some of the women who
37:19
cause some of the more extreme crimes but more often than not it’s more of you
37:25
took his bike away from him and it’s it’s it’s Petty crimes and white-collar crimes check kiting uh uh check fraud
37:33
things like that they’re more likely to do a woman is more likely to do that than for example like homicide or uh or
37:41
uh or even if we’re going sticking to misdemeanors um you know like a violent a violent
37:46
misdemeanor like a simple assault or something like that so it’s it’s more likely that they’re gonna do something
37:51
like that where there would be a a cash bail a potential cash bail component
37:57
um so that that actually does make sense so you’re saying as a proportion of the number of women that are that are
38:03
arrested you’re not saying like there are more what because there’s no way okay it’s like 93 of yeah okay okay I don’t
38:10
know um so but along with that so when we’re looking at the way that the system is
38:15
working so people who are there purely on cash bail are more likely to uh be
38:20
involved with the recidivism rate people who are part of the system system who get into the culture of the jails and
38:27
the prisons are more likely to have some adaptations and be more likely when they
38:32
come out to go back in um this is something we see from the criminal justice system just as an
38:39
overview and this is a certain part of this so getting people out of the out of
38:44
this cash bail system keeping people away from that giving people the the benefit of innocental proven guilty
38:52
actually helps reduce the population in prison one of course or the jails and
38:58
the prisons one of course by not holding them there but two by not having people reoffend or be accused of reoffending
39:04
it’s this thing just couples with itself and and it’s a part of I feel like I’ve
39:10
uh always signing itself so Philadelphia where it’s like he stands with with the
39:15
cork board we’re looking at the criminal justice system and everything on there yeah it’s interconnected
39:20
it’s hard not to do that because there’s so many like interconnected issues but
39:25
the the bottom line here is that you are charging people to exercise the fact
39:33
that they are at this point presumed innocent and should be allowed to go home and it it
39:40
it’s a it’s a terrible terrible system another justification I heard for this is well without this it’s harder to get
39:46
them to plea and then we’re going to have to take them to trial and you know it’s a lot harder to convict some of these criminals than you think
39:54
good maybe they’re not criminals maybe you just don’t have enough evidence that they did this and even and and you’re
40:01
thinking that because you have something that is you know uh uh that looks like they they probably did or may have done
40:07
it but would not meet the the jurors uh uh threshold for uh uh guilt Beyond A
40:14
Reasonable Doubt then you shouldn’t be prosecuting them in the first place that the job of a prosecutor part of their
40:21
job should be is do I have enough here for them to be held without a uh without
40:27
uh Beyond A Reasonable Doubt and if there is not only should you not be talking about pleeing or or cat you know
40:34
using the cash bail system you should be saying no let them go we’re not charging them there’s no grand jury we’re just
40:41
letting them go because there’s not enough here and if we can collect more in the future fantastic and then we can
40:48
prosecute them then otherwise this is a case that we aren’t moving forward on because and and we also have to look at
40:54
this is moving out a cash bail we have to figure out what is a way
40:59
to incentivize a criminal justice system that actually tries to get to the bottom
41:04
of cases instead of just maximizing the number and I’m not sure I have a good answer for that because you don’t want
41:11
to throw out an easy answer because there’s always the trade-off of well now what is that incentivizing are they now
41:17
going to incentivize finding guilty people innocent and not trying them so I mean that could backfire too but in the
41:23
meantime we need not be punishing people for not being wealthy enough to be able to afford to get bailed out while
41:30
they’re still Presumed Innocent before I respond to that there’s two things I want to plug the first one was when you were talking about those juries this is
41:36
a good time to talk about if you guys are looking into what a jury can do of course come back here at 8pm Eastern
41:42
tonight come check that out we’re going to be talking about the power of the jury we’re going to talk about how the jury actually functions what your what
41:49
actual authorities you have that the courts are not going to tell you you have and specifically jury nullification where you get to go no he may have
41:56
violated some law but that law is not just and we’re gonna we’re gonna strike law is not just it’s it’s incredible
42:02
um the second thing oh I just want to say I believe that the jury should be
42:08
the fourth branch of government in this country I think there is you know the legislature is passing laws the
42:14
executive is uh is signing them or vetoing them and executing them as written and the courts are determining
42:21
if if they believe it to be constitutional or not and the people in the jury box uh the jury pool are
42:28
deciding whether that law is just or not um and I think that that would stop a
42:34
lot of the the um over criminalization and things like that uh but that would require a lot
42:39
more jury trials and I remember a statistic that said that if even five
42:45
percent or eight percent it was it was a single digit number of uh people that were arrested for things pled not guilty
42:52
and went to trial instead of pleading it down you know pleading guilty or pleading down to a lesser charge the
42:57
system would grind to a halt good yeah
43:03
maybe stop having so many things that are illegal that shouldn’t be and you can focus on
43:09
the things that should be illegal we have the world’s largest prison population for a reason yep it’s not
43:15
stop with the crime it’s just creating more of them and I think that you had shared a video on on your uh page which
43:21
I never let you plug your own stuff when you come on here um but you shared it on your own page where this the the cop said the quiet
43:28
part out loud of you guys listen to us if we’re in the left lane and you’re in the left lane get out our way we’re
43:33
gonna we’ll find you we’ll find a reason to pull you over we’ll find a reason to pull you over yeah we will incriminate
43:39
you um that is where our criminal justice system is today and so when you have people that want to just say well
43:45
you know we have to go after these crimes you have to be smart on crime and this goes back to the to the response
43:50
that I was I was building up for was um right now we have a punitive system
43:55
where it’s just there to punish people and that doesn’t work when we look at parenting tactics and you have children
44:02
if you just put them in timeout every time or you just spank them with a belt or you just do whatever parenting tactic
44:08
you want of just like kind of having a a strict repercussion
44:13
you don’t actually make things better kids have Trauma from that it doesn’t put them in a better mindset it doesn’t
44:19
show respect and so when you do that with the criminal justice system where
44:24
it’s a punishment you go in for a Time sentence you pay a fee and then you move back into society you made that person
44:31
far far worse and so what we have to do and these are those lines of we have to
44:36
have a rehabilitative system that looks at why you committed the crimes how do we understand that these crimes are
44:42
happening how do we fix these crimes how do we put people onto a better trajectory
44:47
um how do we give them dignity how do we have have them value themselves in
44:52
society again so when they come out they want to bring that value to others and that also helps the victims both by
45:01
restoring the victims and focusing on how to make them whole if at all possible and also not making future
45:07
victims because the sooner you can address why this person committed this crime and do some restorative and
45:14
rehabilitative work with that person the
45:20
butcher so you making the victim whole that was already victimized as best you can if possible
45:26
and then you are also preventing future victims so it’s better for everyone it’s better for the taxpayer it’s better for
45:33
the the offender it’s certainly better for the victim it’s immeasurably better for the potential victims that never
45:38
happened uh the only people that hurt from it are the what I call the police and prison industrial complex and I’m
45:45
fine with that as the trade-off I’m I’m good with that being the trade-off yeah
45:51
I’m I’m happy with that trade-off absolutely um some comments that were made from the
45:56
comments section are you ready for these this one you’ll like
46:02
so Will’s trial will Henry from Indiana his trial cost of the state thirty
46:08
thousand dollars for a handful of flour yeah if you want to save money
46:15
I would say not trying to go after a handful of flowers would be a good start on that um yeah
46:21
there is the story of course and this is the conversation I have with a lot of people and and they look at me like I’m
46:26
a crazy conspiracy theorist but because of how many laws are on the books right now and Joe hanouche brought this up um
46:32
as well the average American commits more than two felonies every single day
46:38
you can just go about your life and you can live about your days and there are there’s an opportunity that if there are
46:45
laws on the books right now that you could be found whether it’s at your state or your federal level or what have
46:50
you that they can go after you two over two felonies per day now this could be
46:55
like the same felony over time you have like some yeah stupid zoning infraction
47:00
that somehow is like a criminal level right it’s these things that it’s just like we have the system that’s so
47:05
overbearing that they’re trying to find a way to treat you as guilty they’re trying to take away from from you they
47:11
want to have these cash bail systems because the cronies get the money they you know you have to wear and and this
47:17
is another big aspect of it when we talked about the people who are lower on the economic sales that can’t afford to
47:23
post those large cash Bales they have to go through the through the bail system or through the um
47:30
I just the bondsman bail bondsman not only do they have to put up five
47:35
percent of that cash they have to put some money up for cash but they also have to have the collateral that
47:41
collateral is often valued yeah and that so this is this is something where you
47:47
already you’re putting somebody behind the eight ball you’re shoving them up against the wall you’re you’re blocking
47:53
all the holes and you say I hope you can make it out go ahead and win this game we are we are destroying people’s lives
47:59
every day that the system stands in the way that it’s it’s it’s standing and that’s not an exaggeration every single
48:05
day some one more life is shown to be not valued in this country and this is why you guys know me this is why this is
48:11
my passionate conversation as a cjr I’m going to give an example uh of
48:17
something I posted a few days ago uh there was a a girl she’s now 17 but at the time she was 15 named Piper Lewis uh
48:25
and she lives in uh where somewhere in Iowa I forget where and I I’m not Cedar Rapids anyway she lives in I she lived
48:32
in Idaho Iowa and uh she was 15 and a man uh held her an adult man held her at
48:39
knife point and forced her to be raped by multiple men uh one of those men was
48:46
a man named I believe Zachary Brown I think that was his last name uh doesn’t really matter now because he’s dead but
48:52
anyway so he uh so he was one of the people who raped uh Piper uh at some
48:58
moment uh he was the rapist Zachary uh believe Brown was asleep uh and Piper
49:04
grabbed a knife and killed him in defense to get out of there and escaped she was charged with murder
49:11
now here’s the thing now I know what you’re thinking there’s not a jury in the world that would convict her and
49:17
you’re a hundred percent correct had that actually gone to trial and she had pled not guilty they would have there
49:24
was no way that anyone would have charged her with mer for uh killing uh
49:30
the guy who just violently raped her at knife Point okay that’s not gonna happen
49:35
and in fact heads would roll in the Justice Department there and in the AG’s office for even charging her in the
49:41
first place with that and more than likely the charges would have been dropped and never gone to trial because who’s going to hold that political
49:47
football when it’s time to vote for that AG but Piper was held on cash bail and
49:54
as a 15 year old who had an abusive family and uh had actually run away from
49:59
home she didn’t have the ability to post cash
50:05
bail or get a bond or anything else and so she pled guilty to oh gosh a
50:12
willful harm and and uh something about a manslaughter and wolf willful harm and
50:19
the prosecution then attempted to uh to get 20 years
50:26
she’s trying to get out from the with the oh and while she’s in because she was being held for uh uh
50:32
over a year while she was in there uh in in jail uh in the juvenile system
50:38
she got her GED yep graduated early so this was not like I whatever image
50:45
you may have in your head this was a girl that like she was trying to get ahead in life and trying to get by in
50:51
life this terrible thing happened to her and then this arguably worst thing happened to her uh with her being held
50:58
still tried to make the best of it so she’s in core and the judge uh rules
51:04
that she gets uh he gave her the minimum sentence which was uh five years of probation with time served included
51:12
um so she she’s free but she also because of a ridiculous uh Iowa uh law
51:19
uh she had to give a hundred and fit she’s ordered to give to pay a hundred
51:25
and fifty thousand dollars in restitution to the uh to the family of
51:30
the rapist that she killed uh and the for what I consider an act of heroism of
51:36
taking a violent rapist off the streets but in that moment she was doing it in uh in defense and um and and the judge
51:44
even lamented that he had to do it he said my hands are tied uh this is a minimum sentence uh uh our minimum
51:51
restitution that I’m required to give because of a restitution uh act that was passed however many years ago uh there
51:57
have been multiple attempts to try to uh amend these rules and introduce Safe Harbor for the victims for minors and
52:04
the victims of sex crimes uh but those have been fought tooth and nail by law
52:09
enforcement groups wow wow and so who would have thought uh
52:16
that they of all people that they would do that and so this girl who uh who by
52:22
all accounts uh was defending herself and trying to get away from her violent sex trafficking rapists uh is now has to
52:30
is on the hook for 150 000 after being held in jail for like over a year I
52:35
forget the exact amount of time now the good news here is that this uh case got
52:40
so much widespread attention someone set up I think one of her teachers set up a GoFundMe for her which last time I
52:47
checked raised had already raised close to six hundred thousand dollars so Piper will easily be able to pay that 150 and
52:53
she’s set for whatever she wants to do go to college buy a house whatever so that’s good but the hell that this still
53:01
teenage child because she’s 17 now has had to suffer over the last two years
53:07
and it all started with cash bail it all started well it started with her being
53:13
raped but the criminal justice the criminal Injustice part of this started with the fact that because of cash bail
53:18
she couldn’t get out why not let this girl out and let her be
53:24
presumed innocent and that that’s a that’s just another example of how this is weaponized so if you’re sitting here
53:30
going well the government I don’t think they would do they’ll do it to a teenage rape victim yep they will do it to you
53:37
they will do it to anyone that you love or care about if they have to or if they
53:42
feel like they need to to justify their bloated budgets and to pay off the crony
53:48
uh in this case bail bondsman but in any case the crony corporations who bankroll
53:53
their campaigns One hand washes another and if you get victimized in the process oh well they don’t care if they’ll do it
54:01
to a teenage rape victim they’ll do it to anyone yeah
54:07
it’s it’s horrific and and the last point I want to make on this before I give you the last couple thoughts on
54:14
this um is that when we look at so we’ve I’ve had conversations on the show before
54:20
about the death penalty where one in nine people are found innocent
54:25
exonerated some of them before they’re executed most of them after they’re
54:30
executed most of them afterwards when you have a system like that where
54:36
beyond a shadow of a doubt one out of nine people are still innocent you break
54:43
that down to these systems you break it down to like lower crimes and everything else she is clearly not a she’s clearly
54:49
not an aggressor in this situation she is the victim in the situation both in a traumatic experience from you know from
54:57
the rapists the multiple rapists as well as from the system itself and she was
55:02
the one who is victimized again by having to pay the restitution by the system she was held in prison because
55:08
she couldn’t afford to get out because she didn’t have a means to get out because she didn’t have the collateral because she didn’t have the cash because
55:14
she couldn’t pay the fines she couldn’t pay the fees to have her freedoms
55:20
this is the system is broken and so you know this is why I’m so excited to have you on to talk about this bike because
55:27
you’ve got you’ve got the juicy details the the stories that just break people’s hearts but it shows that we have to have
55:33
a difference it’s not that we it’s not that we’re like Oh yay Pro crime we’re yay Pro Community let’s find a way to be
55:41
better for our communities and and be better and give better um but we’re pro we’re pro-justice this
55:49
isn’t about uh you know let the criminals run rampant or anything like that interestingly enough for those who
55:56
think that I’ll remind you that the same police state that’s doing all this stuff we’re talking about are the ones who
56:01
stood on their hands and did absolutely nothing while rioters burned down entire cities so the people that are helping
56:07
the criminals run wild are the ones that you’re defending right now so actually that’s not true uh that that that’s
56:14
completely incorrect um and and by the way the reason they did that was in order to make you more
56:20
scared shared so that you would cause push for them to have even more control and less accountability so they
56:26
literally held your safety hostage for them to continue to get military equipment and Immunity in court and uh
56:33
you know immunity from prosecution and no accountability and you know more funding for their police unions they
56:39
actually used you as a scapegoat and if you died in the process so be it but no we are pushing for justice we want
56:45
Justice and Justice is that when people are accused of a crime they need to be
56:51
presumed innocent until until or unless they are proven guilty or proven innocent uh and they need to be treated
56:57
as such and that includes allowing them to go home uh while they await trial I
57:02
just want to plug One More Story that you recently shared on your Facebook page and I’m sure you posted on Twitter
57:08
as well um but the story of police literally holding you back from better
57:13
circumstances would be shootings yeah umaldi was not a fluke it’s uh it’s
57:21
if the police determine that your help isn’t needed or wanted they will go
57:29
after you before they go after the shooter and this has been proven again in San Antonio Texas now meanwhile
57:35
thankfully in this case it turned out that there wasn’t an active shooter that it was either a a prank or the the
57:41
shooter had already been apprehended or whatever but in this moment they didn’t know that and a uh a parent tried to
57:47
intervene and uh an officer responded by brutally assaulting him and it’s all on
57:53
camera it’s on my Facebook page and I’m uh I think I put that on everything I’m not sure if I put it on YouTube but it’s
57:59
on all my other social media um and uh brutally assaulted him uh the
58:04
parents start corralling around saying what are you doing stop it get off of them get off of them the police form a
58:09
line around the cop and hold them all back while we watch behind them we’re watching at least two cops just beat the
58:16
crap out of this parent and then when they’re walking away you see this giant pool of blood there here yep plea the
58:24
government which the police are a part of because I know there are many people that are anti-government and then suddenly the police are fine the
58:30
government including the police will mandate that you and your children are vulnerable to attack they will hold you
58:38
back while your children are murdered and then they’ll blame the whole thing on you uh for owning a firearm that’s
58:45
that’s the system we have and so if you’re against things like gun control if you think that government should stay
58:50
out of people’s business if you think that government is bad at making decisions for people then you have to
58:55
look at the criminal justice system and stop assuming that they’re just keeping us safe from the thugs because that’s
59:02
what they say about everything they called you a thug when they locked you down and you didn’t want and you wanted
59:07
to be able to go to church within in person with people they called you a thug they called you a dangerous person
59:13
it was killing people’s grandparents maybe they’re lying about these people too they called you a terrorist they
59:19
called you a thug maybe they’re lying about these folks too yeah they called you a terrorist when you went to the school boards to ask about education and
59:26
covert restrictions they held you down and prevented you from
59:31
protecting your own your children and the kids of your community they stood by and allowed for writers and and
59:37
destruction to uh to homes to businesses down the entire neighborhoods yeah yeah
59:44
um but but they have your best interests at heart don’t worry guys yeah other than
59:49
that they’re great as many as 60 of them uh are are very good family people
59:56
if you want to know more look at 40 okay and if you if you want to know more about that if you Google please
1:00:04
40 that’s really it that’s all you got to Google I believe 40 no it’s almost like Obama ninety percent
1:00:12
so you have to Google yes Obama Barack Obama you may not know
1:00:17
this Barack Obama uh is uh so good at giving speeches that
1:00:24
he can drone on longer than 90 of the other presidents
1:00:29
good at it he’s so good at it oh no was that a [ __ ] damn it
1:00:37
I’m so proud of you no no so we’re gonna just no no he’s so good at it he’s so
1:00:44
good that many civilians love his speeches more
1:00:50
than any other president as much as 90 percent if you Google Obama drone 90 civilians you can find out more
1:00:59
drowning on I love it so in honor of that we are going to we are going to go
1:01:04
through and to finish off this show I’m gonna read dad jokes from the comments section
1:01:11
until we run out or until spring runs away firing me in the in his wake all
1:01:16
right from the top
1:01:24
oh no eskimo’s making fun of my cheeks uh do I have to I have Chubby Cheeks is this what happened she’s making for my
1:01:31
cheeks I don’t know your cheeks look fine guys I just got a compliment from Spike
1:01:38
Cohen what’s wrong I just got a couple of minutes am I going
1:01:43
what’s wrong with his cheeks Noah she was making fun of me for the dentist
1:01:49
oh I mean the timing is great you know what I’m gonna I’m gonna have the entire uh
1:01:56
my lower jaw removed and re uh inserted and then I’m gonna do two back to back
1:02:01
episodes about criminal justice so I I wasn’t going to share this one but I saw who the author was so I could share it
1:02:06
oral sex will make your whole whole day anal sex will make your whole week
1:02:16
this is a family program what happened with the blue ship and the red ship collider that’s at Sea their shoes their
1:02:24
their Crews were Marooned um
1:02:29
that’s like something on the back of a Snapple cap
1:02:35
oh no Snapple had the facts the days were different like fast that would be like something on a popsicle stick yeah
1:02:41
or a starburst no Starbursts were recording one-liners
1:02:51
all right nope just got a couple ones in there a couple ones from people still loving
1:02:57
this favorite episode favorite episode ever I’m not I’m not gonna I’m not gonna bore you anymore Spike I want to thank
1:03:03
you so much for hopping on here and hanging out with us today um you were incredible I appreciate you
1:03:10
for your Insight and everything that you’re doing if you wouldn’t mind plug the rest of where can we find you where can we see
1:03:16
your upcoming events talk about you are the power what is you are the power and anything else
1:03:24
sure so uh if you go to spikecoan.com um that has all of my upcoming events on
1:03:30
it including the most uh the one of the ones that’s coming up which is libertycon in Miami if you go to
1:03:36
libertycon.com you can find out more about that if you use the code Spike you get a discount of as much as 50 I forget
1:03:42
how much the discount is but uh libertycon.com use the code Spike
1:03:47
um and uh you are the power is an organization I founded uh earlier this year uh in order to grow the Liberty
1:03:55
Movement by finding people who are being abused by their local governments and helping them organize and showing them
1:04:01
that statism caused the problems that they’re facing and Liberty is the way to fix it not only are we helping people
1:04:07
right now instead of waiting for some libertarian libertarian Utopia where we take over the world and leave everyone
1:04:12
alone we’re helping them now uh but also we are growing the Liberty Movement by showing them that we have the solutions
1:04:18
that we care uh and that we can win that we can work together and win so that’s what you were the power is about if you
1:04:24
want to find out more and be a part of it if you go to you are thepower.net we’d love to have you become a part of
1:04:29
it and um yeah man I just appreciate this opportunity anytime I can I can come sit with you and talk about these
1:04:35
types of issues especially like um Criminal Justice Reform stuff cash bail and those types of things it’s it’s a
1:04:41
very important thing and I’m glad we had a chance to talk about it there was one that I have to share with you because it
1:04:46
will also if Matt Wright is still in the comment section it would make you both happy so
1:04:52
what this was actually was the one I wanted to open the show with and I decided against it
1:04:58
but what’s the worst conversation starter it’s the Titanic it’s a 10 out of 10
1:05:04
worst Icebreaker bye Jason I
1:05:12
bye everybody all right I love you guys appreciate you guys all you guys were amazing appreciate you so much come back
1:05:18
here eight o’clock tonight we’ll we will be with Tom Gallagher and Brian if
1:05:23
you’re watching I won I got him to leave a seat and to quit this show There You Go sir I love you guys all
1:05:31
appreciate you all for being here I will see you guys in just about two hours from now
1:05:36
you guys be good be well see you guys soon