Mr Bearded Truth – 14 – Sentencing Reform with Natalie Bruno

One of the most impactful parts of the criminal justice system is sentencing. To live up to its intentions, the criminal justice system needs to give the right sentence for the crime committed. Join Jason as he talked with the next Governor of Oklahoma Natalie Bruno on what sentencing looks like now and what we perceive to be the more proper way.

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Episode Transcript

This episode transcript is auto-generated and a provided as a service to the hearing impaired. We apologize for any errors or inaccuracies.

if you’re a content creator of any kind
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your videos i’m ryan
hello and welcome to mr america the
bearded truth covering political and
social issues one liberty at a time with
entertaining insights of current events
and important discussions on topics that
affect us all
shining the torch of liberty and
brightening the future by bringing
libertarianism into our everyday life
and now your host the friendly
neighborhood libertarian jason lyon mr
murica the very truth on muddy waters
smokes everybody welcome in it’s a
beautiful beautiful amazing monday night
we’re actually live on time could we
just can we talk about how this might be
the first time since i came back that
we’ve gone live at the right time like
it’s amazing it’s unheard of and and yet
here we are and so i’m so glad that you
guys have taken the time out of your day
to join us i love you appreciate you all
so much and while we’re giving the
thanks um
of course thank you to matt and spike
for giving me a platform to come out
here talk about my opinions my views and
my stances on things and of course an
opportunity to bring on some pretty
amazing guests tonight we do have the
one the only natalie bruno the next
governor uh for oklahoma so we will be
diving into sentencing reform tying in
that big puzzle piece into um the rest
of the criminal justice system that
we’ve been talking about for so long um
so it’s gonna be an incredible night but
of course we do have some housekeeping
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it’s a beautiful thing it’s a beautiful
and and yes you guys are already
pointing out there is a little bit of
nepotism in there but
despite all of my stuff being produced
or created by her it’s more than just
more than just me saying that she’s
she’s good at what she does but without
further ado i do want to bring on our
guest because i’m sure she’s bored in
the background but
i don’t know why i’m saying butt so much
this last weekend
we had this wonderful woman on uh the
next governor of oklahoma
she joined matt wright on thursday night
make sure you guys go back check that
this weekend though she had an amazing
event and she got a third person from
the the muddy waters team down there
with her
um on saturday
natalie bruno the next governor of
oklahoma the oklahomis if you will
had a a wonderful event
and she’s gonna talk a little bit about
that with us um but let’s let’s go ahead
and bring her on and i’m so excited
how’s it going tonight
hey i’m so i just want to also say i
also vouch for kelsey she did my logo in
a lot of my stuff as well so not only
just spike and joe she’s also done my
stuff so
i also vouch for kelsey there we go we
have questionable like
dating slash
but her graphic design is on point i’m
i was i was a contender for uh in the
libertarian disproportionate um what was
that group oh people are
disproportionately hotline yes yes i was
my hat was thrown into the ring like i i
know it i’m okay with this
i i swung out way out of my league and
and managed to reel one in so i’m i’m
satisfied with that and so yes another
fantastic libertarian coming in to
advocate for kelsey
appreciate that so much but
i want to talk about you
so you’re doing something
that a lot of people don’t have the the
nards for if you will if i can if i can
use that reference
you’re running for governor tell me how
that’s been for you
you know obviously we’re still a year
out um but it’s it’s been pretty amazing
leading into this
you know obviously as an alternate
party we expect to get quite a bit of
um but i was hoping in the back of my
mind that all of the work that i’ve been
doing in the community across oklahoma
for the last several years would help me
out a little bit and maybe i wouldn’t
get quite as much backlash and uh
it has proven true ten times higher than
i could have ever hoped and expected um
we are a little over a year out so a
year from next month
and we will have our election and i’m
already getting media coverage um i have
already hit fundraising wise more money
than any libertarian
gubernatorial candidate has raised
previous to me
and we’re still a year out
just the reception that i have been
receiving and
spike even had mentioned the amount of
republicans and democrats
that are supporting my campaign
and saying that they might just you know
make the switch over to libertarian has
been overwhelming yeah and
of course i still get you know
hate messages and comments and stuff but
you know that’s just going to happen
yeah welcome to politics
yeah exactly like i could be running for
something tiny and still get that um but
i have been overwhelmed with the amount
of support that i’m getting not only
from my party um
you know independents but from democrats
and republicans as well
it’s it’s been really fantastic so far
and i’m really excited to see what the
next year unfolds we are so excited for
you because it’s
so as you’ve already laid out like your
path already is
unprecedented for a third party let
alone a libertarian candidate and and
you know
having republicans and democrats
actually say let me give natalie bruno a
let me actually look into the party like
that is that is astronomical and i think
that really does speak to um a lot of
things that you were talking about on a
thursday with matt wright like
being that person within the community
this is this is why those people are
willing to to
to give you a second look and the party
a first look potentially um so
i i appreciate everything that you’re
doing i hope that you know you don’t get
too busy between now and then that
you’ll be able to come back to the show
um and and hit some more of the muddy
water shows as well because there is one
i’m gonna i’m gonna put out there on
blast right now that you gotta get on to
and then of course that’s that’s gonna
be tuesday night with spike and matt um
so you gotta you gotta keep your
schedule open for that but
the opportunities for you to really
change oklahoma
um we’re going to talk a little bit
about the sentencing reform here in a
little bit but
tell me a little bit so you guys were
also having an event this weekend beyond
just your campaign event but you also
a protest
um and it
go ahead and fill us in on
fill the audience in on on how that went
and what you what the purpose and the
intent of that one was
yeah so initially we had already planned
i had an event which was an axe throwing
event fundraiser on friday
and then we had an event a dinner for
saturday evening
and so i got with the state party
because we work very very closely
together and i said hey i’m bringing
spiken i’m using him on friday and using
him saturday and he told me that i can
utilize all the time he’s here so i want
to kind of you know allow us to do
something for the state party as well so
we had thrown around doing like a second
amendment march or something like that
um and then he had settled on
um doing a rally at the state capitol in
support of abolishing the death penalty
well we got the permits and everything
and right as all of this
you know was going into motion
is whenever execution dates were set for
um seven individuals in our state we
have not actually had an execution since
i believe 2016
because we had two botched executions
and so
um all this time we had not had an
execution and we got a brand new
attorney general and the first thing he
does is starts up executions again and
one of which of those individuals is the
national case julius jones that a lot of
people have heard about so we have all
of these execution dates they’re set up
um one of the individuals grant he had
his clemency hearing already and it was
his execution date is on thursday
and so
his execution is already set for that
date and then julius jones the national
um if you guys haven’t looked into it
look up justice for julius he has
documentaries there are celebrities
tweeting about him like this is a very
huge national case
and so um his clemency hearing is
actually tomorrow
and so
because of the fact that
you know we had this date already picked
it was
unfortunately but fortunately
perfect because it was directly before
you know this clemency hearing that’s
coming up and so what that was able you
know allowed us to do was collaborate
with lots of other groups so we reached
out to
ignite justice which is a
a non-profit here
that focuses on
jail conditions prison conditions over
sentencing lots of situations like that
there was also oklahoman uh coalition
against people abuse they are also a
criminal justice reform group we also uh
collaborated with jimmy lawson who’s
actually a democrat that’s running for
mayor and who was the lifelong best
friend of julius jones and he came and
spoke with us so it really enabled us to
have a
a party free because you know it’s a
non-partisan issue yeah
there’s so many issues out there
that are important to us as libertarians
that are also important to other groups
in other parties
and that’s one of the things that we’re
trying to focus on as well is finding
those common threads
reaching out to those parties and saying
yeah we’re libertarian you’re a democrat
but this is important to both of us so
let’s work together because the only way
that we’re going to make an impact and
really make a difference is if we can
learn to all work together towards
common goals
so we had the rally um it was fantastic
great speakers spike spoke obviously
he of course always does an amazing
amazing job um
we we had a a good turnout
and we got some news coverage on that
that i shared on my page um and then we
um of course had the dinner but yeah so
the the rally was probably
the thing that i was most um looking
forward to because the fact that i knew
that it was an important statement um
because i get i’ve already gotten a
little bit of um that no let’s say
backlash for it
but natalie as a libertarian why are you
concentrating on an issue that’s like so
50 50 and isn’t going to get you elected
and i’m like because the point is
obviously yes i want to get elected and
there are many of those points you know
that are important to a bulk of the
that is also at my alley that i have a
whole year to put a spotlight on but
this is important right now it’s
important to me it’s important to 50 of
the state it’s important to all families
who have individuals that are going to
be killed by the government between next
week and march and what that does for
oklahoma is we’ve always kind of been
number one per capita for executions but
now this puts us a number one overall
period for
for the year for the amount of
executions that we have scheduled and uh
i don’t know about other oklahomans but
that’s not something i would want to be
known for as a top tier paid for when i
i used to i used to work full-time in in
politics on in
at the grassroots level and it was
amazing to me because oklahoma was the
actual state that we used to say
look at what our criminal justice could
be like this is how bad it could it can
be and
and you look at the culture there and as
you said it’s a 50 50 thing where 50 of
your population is like this is fine
this is okay
you you may even have advocates of
saying we’re not strict enough we’re not
we’re not bad enough and and so
i think that it’s amazing that you went
out there and to to find that
commonality to find that common ground
with people to say look
i’m this is this is my hill i’m willing
to give up everything to say that this
is wrong and we need to take the stance
for what it’s worth i’m applauding every
bit of what you did this last weekend um
on the in that effort um and and i’m
glad to see that you know you’re out
there pursuing
um the other groups and and everything
else to to bring everyone into the fold
of finding that and and
we need more people like that across
this nation um it’s amazing what we can
do by just having conversation with
people rather than allowing our tribes
or our parties or ideology to stand in
the ways just say look
you find the the criminal justice system
isn’t working i find that the criminal
justice system isn’t working let’s work
together let’s find those things and
the sentencing of the death penalty is
certainly falls within the realm of what
we’re talking about tonight um so it’s
it’s amazing that that happened i i i
know when we scheduled this it wasn’t
like hey we’re gonna have this event and
then we’re gonna we’re gonna come on and
talk about this but serendipitously this
functions in that way so we can we can
use this guys if you guys are in the
chat if you guys are in the audience
go check out the the julius jones go
check it out go
raise your voice raise your opinion on
this um and and spread the word let’s
let’s continue to make this a bigger
national thing um because what’s going
on in oklahoma isn’t right um being
number one is is not good uh
in these circumstances but
i love what you love what you’re doing
on on those campaigns but i do want to
dive into the topic a little bit and i
don’t want to leave people with the
leave people stranded that may may not
be too familiar with like what
sentencing reform really is um so
in your words or in your your view what
is the current system how does the how
does sentencing happen
um i just lost the screen um
how does how does sentencing work for
through the criminal justice system and
and kind of what are some of the big
highlights there that that we as
libertarians see
fault with
absolutely so obviously there’s a ton to
unpack in this and what you just said
so when it comes to sentencing typically
they’re per every crime just super high
level because obviously every single
state’s different and then you know
everything else but in general what
typically happens is based off of the
crime you have a
general scope of what a sentence could
look like you have minimums you have
maximums um sometimes in states like
with us there’s like you know three
strike rules where if you
if you uh sorry you you looked at me
real quick like you lost audio and i’m
like what no no i’m just losing i’m just
having technical issues over here it’s
fine it’s muddy waters it’s everything’s
fine it’s monday
um and and i’m apparently a magnet for
issues just so you know oh it’s it’s
muddy waters curse plus natalie bruno
this is this is gonna be a train wreck
of a show it’s gonna be great train
wreck so anyways uh so there’s a minimum
and a maximum and then within our state
you know there’s also three strike rules
that you know change what the minimums
are so there’s that’s kind of what the
system looks like so within oklahoma
specifically we have a serious issue
with over sentencing so i want to share
a couple of stats with you just to show
you just how bad our over sentencing is
we are number one consistently per
capita for incarcerating women
we have jumped between number one and
number two for um highest incarceration
rates overall
we sentence our non-violent offender 78
um and then the
stat that i learned most recently that i
feel like is
really a big zinger as i like to call
them is if you look at the prison
population nationally
about 2.9 percent have life sentences
in the state of oklahoma it’s 12.5
of the prison population in our state
has life sentences
okay so
you look at all of these characteristics
all together and anybody that’s been in
knows that we are a proud people not as
proud as our our southern neighbors
texas um but we are really a proud
people and we’re you know good we’ve got
southern hospitality we don’t have more
criminals we don’t have you know more
heinous crimes okay
but we have this issue
of like
trying to be tough on crime or hard on
but statistics have shown over and over
and over again that over sentencing or
harsh sentencing does not deter crime if
that was the case since we’re number one
per capita in you know um death penalty
case and incarceration rates or anything
like we should have like a golden state
have some of the best crime rates
but we don’t
you know that’s not how that works you
know there’s so many stats that show you
know like if a child has a parent that’s
in jail they’re five times more likely
to go to jail themselves like it’s a
it’s a cycle
and the amount of money that we spend
you know with our department of
corrections when you look at our budget
like it’s just
crazy and i talk to people all the time
they’re like gosh you know
you know the only thing about lowering
taxes is school stuck now i’m like well
yeah it’s have you looked at our budget
like we are one of the highest taxed
states like if you combine all our taxes
yeah we’re higher taxed in california
yet we have the worst schools the worst
roads worst you know
prison system like our jails are falling
apart and it’s because you know if you
just look at our criminal justice system
alone and that’s what i’m trying to
really focus on is like guys
like we would have to release 12 000
12 000 inmates to just be on par with
everybody else
and if you do the math on that
considering that it costs almost 17 000
per year to house an inmate and you
multiply that out by twelve thousand
oh i mean that’s millions and millions
and millions of dollars yeah right there
that we could reallocate to education or
you know things that we want to spend
money on like nobody wants to spend
money on jails like as taxpayers like an
no no everyone kind of wants that’s the
one thing that they’re like
they begrudgingly pay for it well they
say like they had an option but they’re
like you know
it’s one of the things that’s low on
their priority list to pay for um you
know education everything else is is it
and and you brought up some really
really interesting statistics and so
there’s there’s two things i wanted to
bring up there’s one that there was a
study um that showed that regardless of
whatever the sentencing was right it’s
more about the opportunities of people
getting caught is going to be a
determinant factor in if they can make
crimes crimes um of course
we can we can determine what is an
actual crime of if there’s a victim or
not but the sentencing doesn’t change
that and so oklahoma i think is a great
example of how that’s that’s true right
because you guys have some of the
sentencing out there for the same crimes
that would be committed elsewhere and
you guys actually have
based off of your numbers have a higher
rate of of crime than than many other
places so it’s it’s a it’s a huge
struggle there and then also you you
brought up like children with parents
that are incarcerated are five times
more likely and it’s really interesting
because i worked in the education
sector for for
educational reform and we were actually
looking at children’s third grade
literacy rates to be able to figure out
if they’re determined to be destined to
go to prison one day
with a fair amount of certainty so we
are we are doing the the biggest
disservice in the way that we’re
sentencing in oklahoma and certainly
across the country if what we’re looking
to do with our criminal justice system
is to you know protect victims or to
protect people from from crimes to
reform criminals to
allow them to come back into society
once their sentences are done unless
they’re the 12 percent that that blows
my mind that 12
12.5 12.5
that is an eighth
one out of eight eight
inmates is a life sentence yes it’s it’s
it’s sad and what’s even crazier is that
when we look at the death penalty right
so one thing that i always like to bring
up with people because obviously the
people who feel most passionately about
keeping the death penalty are typically
my very far right winged individuals
right yeah and you’re like oh well you
know but no i’m sorry you know wood
chipper you know child molesters and
this that the other serial murderers and
blah blah and what i try to explain to
people is those are not the people that
get the death sentence okay
people who have you know absolute
evidence we had them on video shooting
up a school or you know severe child
molesters and stuff like that they take
plea deals because they know
that there’s no way out of it so their
attorneys get them plea deals and they
end up with life these are not the types
of individuals that are getting executed
and especially when you look at like
people like julius jones right so i’m
not going to unravel like the whole case
there’s not enough time on your screen
for that but i will say that
enough of the evidence points towards
his innocence or i should say more
points towards his innocence than his um
guilt i’m one of the individuals that
believe he is innocent but what i try to
explain to people especially because
we’ve been calling
we’ve been calling people to call
governor stitt
today and tomorrow urging him to um
agree to the clemency right
or signing off on it and the argument
that i always tell them to explain is
we want like remove the fact of whether
or not you think that julius is innocent
or guilty okay
let’s pretend for a second that he is
all right
the punishment still doesn’t match the
crime it wasn’t premeditated
it wasn’t especially heinous this is a
situation where somebody was trying to
steal a vehicle
shot somebody and they died
okay and they have a death penalty
sentencing okay
by no means am i i mean if something
were to happen to a husband or a loved
one of mine and they would have gotten
killed obviously
that’s a horrible thing what happened to
paul howell’s family yeah but it didn’t
warrant a death penalty sentence even if
he did do it and that’s what i keep
trying to urge people he still deserves
clemency and he still deserves to have
like he’s been in jail for or prison for
over 22 years yeah
on on this point it’s it’s
does the sentence right regardless on if
you agree with it is it the right
sentence for the crime if they were
found guilty um and that’s that’s
incredibly important whenever we’re
having this conversation i just want to
highlight that for for anyone out there
yeah thank you i appreciate that but
yeah so that’s one of the things that i
try to explain as well because there’s
so many of these cases
that are so
so messed up and mismanaged and so like
here’s another couple of examples of
our sentencing issues and the
inconsistencies so two things i would
like to bring up so one of which is um
first time sentence are first-time
offenders for domestic violence violence
versus drug charges okay
we have the same
minimums for a first-time domestic
violence individual like somebody
physically harming somebody as someone
with just drug possession so i could
physically hurt somebody
and have the same sentence as somebody
that got busted
with you know
let’s say pot without a medical card
because obviously we have medical
marijuana here but it’s the same thing
so how does that make sense like we have
like there’s no common sense no
with how we’re sentencing people
we have another individual so um keith
brown so ever since i’ve gotten into the
spotlight kind of of criminal justice
reform people message me all the time
and tell me stories about you know their
loved ones that are you know wrongfully
you know convicted or over sentenced and
stuff like that so um there was a
gentleman and keith brown his sister
reached out to me right
and so when he was 17 years old and he
was involved in an armed robbery um he
shot the person the person lived
okay they did not die the person lived
um in the state of oklahoma at the time
you had if you intended to
charge a minor as an adult you had to
have the
preliminary hearing within 90 days
at 181 days
he had his preliminary hearing and they
charged him as an adult
and they gave him a
life sentence
with that
he didn’t even kill anybody he is still
in jail right now he has been
oh my gosh i’m gonna misquote the amount
of years i think he’s been in for for
almost 19 years now like it’s been a
substantial amount of time yeah and and
i might be getting my my time this up
but it’s a substantial amount of time
yeah and the person didn’t even die but
yet we have an individual that was
recently charged with multiple acts of
rape against a child and he discussed it
in seven years
how does that make sense no it did it
yeah no it never does and and like the
most frustrating part of whenever we
dive into these specific cases of what’s
happening in criminal justice systems is
we find all too often where
the side of the law
doesn’t follow the law and and certainly
with your case of
that you were just mentioning right 90
days is the cut off they went to 181 so
more than double that time and they’re
just like man it’s fine it’s it’s it’s a
clerical error we can move on with life
it’s like no no the the
but yeah no it
we have to have
whenever we’re talking about sentencing
we have to have the discussion is this
is the the punishments proportional and
and when we talk about you you spoke
about how there’s a minimum sentencing
like a mandatory minimum and then a
maximum and it’s like the maximum should
be for the most egregious person who
like you know
pre-meditated this went through the plan
and knocked it out right versus the
minimum where it’s like this is
clearly not somebody who intended to
have this happen et cetera et cetera and
and so we have to have those
conversations and i think that all too
often whenever you have an attorney
general like what you’re talking about
they’re out for blood they’re not out
there for they’re out there to make a
name for themselves they’re out there to
to get to higher offices they’re out
not in the pursuance of of having a
a criminal justice system that’s going
reign with justice and and what that
truly means
you’re breaking my heart with these
stories i’m i’m not gonna lie
i i could go i mean it would it would
blow your mind the stories that i get
one of the um things that i’m doing as
well which and if you’re in oklahoma and
you are listening to this broadcast
today um i actually have a petition
about it on my website at elec natalie
bruno dot com um it’s under uh if you go
under more it’s called joshua’s law so
it’s i’m putting together a petition
right now
and to
help to try to get um a bill written
about phone calls
let’s go back to children again okay
the more connection that inmates can
have with their family it has been
proven that it not only helps the
behavior of the inmates they behave
less issues all around it also helps the
family members and the children
who did not break the law that did not
do anything wrong and they are equally
being punished okay
regardless of what their parent is in
prison for whether it’s drug charges
or worse
they still need that connection to their
parents and their loved ones
and the
company that the department of
corrections utilizes
to take care of and make phone calls
which a lot of these use first of all
they’ve been recently sued and had to
pay out millions of dollars for
recording phone calls between clients
and attorneys which is obviously illegal
yeah but
they charge outrageous amounts so a 15
minute phone call can range anywhere
from 10 to 15
for one 15-minute phone call and when
you take into consideration in the state
of oklahoma that 75
of families who have a parent that is
incarcerated make 25 000 a year or less
that’s a substantial amount of money
i have
literally you know wives that are like
so upset that the fact that
they can like their children
get a good test result or something they
want to talk to their father or mother
that’s incarcerated but they can’t
afford to call them until payday because
there’s no way that they can afford that
extra 10 to 15 phone call
i mean and then even if you have inmates
that have work right the uh the minimum
wage for inmates in state of oklahoma is
five cents an hour
like can you imagine how many hours it
would be
to accumulate enough money to help that
in for a phone call yeah i mean an email
is 25 cents like it’s it’s outrageous
and it’s something that needs to stop
i don’t believe
we don’t pay for single phone calls
anymore we don’t pay for long distance
you pay a monthly rate and that’s it you
know like i feel like that it’s that we
should not be charging
families to be able to stay in contact
with their loved ones behind bars so i’m
putting forth legislation trying to get
a bill written uh to support that
there there we do have a question from
the chat is uh do prisons or sheriffs
get money from those phone calls
yes ish so what happens is with this
specific contract
um they have a contract out until 2023
and as part of that contract to allow
them to have that they get paid 3.2
million dollars a year
the department of corrections does to
this company
to manage the department of corrections
phone calls so yes they do so you can
imagine if they’re getting a kickback
back to the state of 3.2 million dollars
you can just imagine what they’re making
off of inmates and their families
and and certainly
this whole conversation where we’re
we’re diving into now just says that we
need to have a discussion about prison
reform itself and how
right we have a punitive system how do
we what does a rehabilitative system
look like how does a system that works
towards helping
give guidance for inmates to for when
they do leave if they’re not one and
eight for oklahoma
um you know but so many of these these
inmates are coming back out into society
how do we we give them a good structure
and how do we give them a good guidance
to to come forward on that and how do we
allow them to stay connected to their to
their families to
be there for their kids be there for
for uh you know as as we discussed as
you discussed the julius uh
the concern of how many people are in
the oklahoma prison system right now
that did not commit a crime how many
maybe did some wrong doing but are not
guilty of the crimes that they’ve been
accused of um and and
i can tell you
here we go again here’s some more sets
so side note i also want you guys to
look up richard glossip he is also
another case that’s turning national
that is a person that’s on death row
right now that’s also presumably
innocent uh but he his case is even
stronger than julius’s on his innocence
um but
since 1976
uh we have had 132 people get licensed
error excuse me
um death penalty
um sentences
and there has already been 10 that have
been removed because they were found
innocent and that doesn’t even include
so that means we are over seven percent
on the amount of people when it comes to
death penalty convictions
outside of that
i mean we have a very long history of
um you know police and um da’s uh you
planting evidence and
misleading accounts i mean there’s just
like you can do just a five second
google search and find like so much
stuff and that’s another argument that i
always have is that guys are criminal
like we
we have a very broken system here yeah
and so until we’re at a point where
we’re batting 100
which is not anytime soon we have no
business putting somebody else’s life in
our hands yeah no absolutely and and and
to go to the to the death
sentencing real quick because as much as
we hate this in my state we have not had
somebody get executed and
i want to say since
1996 they just recently
congress or the general assembly just
passed and got signed by the governor to
bring back firing squads because in our
state we’re required to have two
available processes
and because they would not give uh
chemical producers or
the producers of the chemicals
legal protections and liability
nobody wanted to produce that drug so
they they had the electric chair and
they had lethal injection as
opportunities and they were like well
just give me a lethal injection and then
of course nobody was getting executed
during these times so they’ve given now
a second option of you can choose the
chair or you can be killed by a firing
squad which is
archaic and and
directly against the constitution yeah
amendment yeah so is so we now have this
being passed here in south carolina in
order to have this and and you know
speaking of the innocent people that’s
you cannot this is not something that’s
reversible so until like you said until
we’re batting a hundred percent and it’s
i would much rather see
inmates be serving a life sentence who
were guilty than to have a single
individual be killed who was innocent of
those crimes and and also for for those
of you who are fiscal conservatives um
fiscally conservative not fiscal
conservatives but fiscally conservative
when it comes to the funding
it is it costs less to have somebody be
in prison who did heinous crimes who did
murdered multiple people it it cost less
to keep them in prison than to execute
them three times it costs three times
more money to give some of the death
than it is to give them a life sentence
and that equates to about seven hundred
thousand dollars
at least in the state of oklahoma i
should say seven hundred thousand
it’s it’s astronomical and and so
if you have a friend out there that is
in favor of the death penalty say hey
how do you feel about balancing the
you know
and when i bring it down to is okay so
say that you want to kill people because
there’s some people that deserve the
death penalty which i totally like i
said i agree with that yeah
if i ever found somebody uh physically
hurting my children like a child
molester or something we wouldn’t have
to send them to jail because i would
take care of it on my own right yeah so
i agree but again those are not the
people who get the executions because
they get plea deals okay
literally you look in your state if your
state is a death penalty state and it is
extremely rare that one of those cases
actually gets the death penalty all
right because it saves them money to
just say hey if you if you say you’re
guilty because obviously you have all
the evidence against you we’ll be nice
and we’ll just give you a life sentence
without parole and they take it okay
it doesn’t save anybody any money that’s
another fallacy uh they think that it
saves money by executing someone but it
doesn’t nope
it does not deter crime case study after
case study after case study has been
proven that that is not true
so after all of those things
we’re looking at it as just an emotional
and revenge situation yes and i am sorry
but i have yet to run into a single
individual who has lost a loved one that
has somehow felt better
or had their loved one come back after
having their killer executed
it doesn’t happen if anything if it were
me i wouldn’t want them to get out easy
i would want them to have to rot in jail
for the rest of their life think about
what you did for the rest of your life
every day that you’re sitting in those
cells going insane
know that you’re in there for what you
did and and absolutely i’m i’m 100
on there
and if we could say one innocent person
that’s the thing too if if me letting
that person stay alive stuck behind bars
could potentially save an innocent
person i think there’s value in that too
yeah no i i think we end it there
it’s we have to
i think as a society we have to have
that conversation though right because
you just laid out every justification
that people would have for keeping the
death penalty in place
and and maybe maybe it’s just because
libertarians are the grown-ups in the
room but
i don’t know it depends on which
libertarians you’re around i’m just
kidding yeah no you’re absolutely right
i i instantly regret my decision
but because we do have that that kind of
we don’t want to have the emotional
response we have to logically think
things through
it doesn’t give people closure
watching somebody else be killed it
doesn’t give you the closure that you
need it’s not going to bring your loved
one back it’s not going to
it’s not going to unrape
you know
those children it’s not going to undo
all that harm that you you’re still
going to have to bear that brunt and
then you’re just going to know that that
person got off early got off easy and
and certainly
because of the constraints that are put
in place and i think that rightfully so
right we don’t want people to suffer as
they’re being executed because of again
innocent people that would be suffering
through this but
it’s it’s the easy route
no let them sit there
give people the opportunity to give
innocent people the opportunity to to be
you spoke about how many people just in
your seven percent you said over seven
memorizing decimals so that’s why i’m
just like over seven yeah yeah
like usually i give the statistic of one
percent right if you can have one
innocent person then that’s good enough
to save it but you’re talking about
like this is insane
you guys got to fix your stuff and
that’s why you got you have to do you
have to come along and and of course
vote for natalie bruno next year so
everyone go ahead move over to oklahoma
um first gold state i’m telling you it’s
going to happen uh it was funny though
because i did speak when uh larry sharp
was here this weekend because obviously
spike and larry flew in uh to help me
kick off my campaign weekend uh i
actually um
we had discussed who was going to
actually get to be the first libertarian
governor and so we established that if
we both win
i still get to call be called the first
one because my campaign started first so
just throwing that out there getting the
of that we established that deal since i
announced my candidacy first
i get to be called the first libertarian
uh governor
uh did you just drop news for everybody
that no i didn’t it was a hypothetical i
didn’t okay all right
i was gonna say i was gonna get excited
but no no i didn’t drop news we’ll wait
for the news to drop if it’s coming
hypothetically hypothetically but we did
say if he runs because they were like oh
if he runs he’s going to win i’m like
then he’ll be the first one i’m like no
still gets to be me because i don’t know
no for sure and and
i i’m just i’m still blown away by your
your ability to bring people into the
fold that otherwise of the libertarians
let’s let’s as we talk about being the
grown-ups of the room we are children
when it comes to the tribalism in so
many different ways and so many faucets
we we see people in red or we see people
as blue but you’ve been able to look
past that and i think that that’s gonna
be a great opportunity for you to to
really make a large impact in oklahoma
uh the oklahomis are gonna love you as
their new governor and i’m gonna keep
dropping oklahoma’s i know i
you’re not wrong like you’re not wrong
it’s funny because there was a debate
last week on twitter i think about is it
oklahomans or oklahoma’s or oakies and
i’m like well all of the above it just
all of them are correct answers so i
like it but no i i’m excited too and one
of the things that i’m i’m hoping will
continue to benefit me is
my regular nine to five is i’m a
marketer and an advertiser so
normal job is customizing messaging to
match the audience
and so
that is one thing i’ve really really
tried to do i’ve tried to take our
libertarian values
which are very common sense
values yes right
like i tell people all the time when
when someone calls me a um
an idealist or something like that i’m
like how bad of a world are we in that
common sense politics is me being an
idealist like that’s just crazy right
um but taking that message and crafting
it away to where it makes sense to the
person receiving it so
being in a very red state when i talk
about the death penalty for example um i
push on the points of it’s three times
more expensive or i touch on the points
because we are we love the constitution
here man we are all about it and so i
point out the fact
that it’s unconstitutional you know so
like i’m like i’m so for the
constitution that i believe in the
constitution in all of its glory
including the fact that the death
penalty is unconstitutional so
i mean it’s just all about just crafting
it in a way to where you know to where
they get it and they can appreciate it
and and it gives me the opportunity to
explain it
and then it usually ends up pretty well
i mean i mean there’s been very
to be honest with you the only people
that i have had
con actual conversations with that i
couldn’t get anywhere with were ones
that said that finally in the end they
couldn’t vote for me because i’m a woman
and women shouldn’t be leaders and then
at that point i was like uh we’re not
going anywhere
yeah there’s some people you just can’t
change yeah that’s
so cool
so when you get elected to be governor
um because i’m sure campaigning is going
to be incredibly busy so once you’re
elected to be governor and you’re kind
of kicking back because libertarians do
that um when is the workshop on how to
get libertarians elected in all 50
well tonight actually so one thing i
always try to do is you know i love
giving back right obviously a
philanthropist so actually right after
this i have a zoom call for google
analytics for politics teaching
candidates and campaign staff how to
utilize utm codes and
uh tracking pixels to measure data and
then taking that and making more cost
efficient campaigns because obviously we
don’t have all the packs and super pacs
and stuff that the rs and the d’s do
right so we have to choose to use our
money more efficiently so i’m trying to
help others take the data that they get
from their website and from the the
people that they reach out to and help
use that data to reach more people while
spending less money
so while we’re talking about money um
you’ve said you’ve been raising
you’ve hit your fundraising goals and
everything else but
you’ve got a year left you need to raise
some money
people love you people adore you you’re
going to be the first
governor that is part of the libertarian
where do people go in order to
make it rain on your campaign awesome
first of all
um i need people to follow me on twitter
specifically so facebook and twitter i
don’t even care if you’re in oklahoma it
doesn’t matter right algorithms the more
you interact you were touching on it
earlier the more people interact and
follow you the more important that the
interwebs think that you are therefore
they put your stuff out there more right
and i was never really a twitter person
so i don’t know
when i ch when i started getting
involved with twitter i had like 400
people or something 300 people now i’m
up to like 950 thanks to spike you know
interacting with all my stuff but it’s
still really pitiful numbers right so i
need all the love even if you cannot
donate money to my campaign at least
like and follow share it with your
friends tell them to like and follow
right that’s the easiest thing that you
can do
i also need volunteers again whether in
oklahoma or not there are things that
you can do that you do not physically
have to be here for and i need all of
the support and people that i can get so
two easy things that don’t even cost
anything right but your time
so lastly yes i do need bunny so my goal
by the end of my campaign will to have
been to will be to have hit 625 000
because that is what you need as a
gubernatorial candidate in order to be
successful that’s just the way it is and
that is me
like i built my own website that’s how
lean i am being okay so
um that’s very important so please go to
elect okay there’s a nice
little yellow donate button in the top
right corner uh click donate whatever
you feel comfortable with i’m totally
stealing a line that spike said multiple
times where you said i like to say that
uh donate until it hurts but actually
donate how much you want to be free and
i was like oh i like that
i like that so donate as much as you
want to be free
to my campaign help me become the first
libertarian governor i
am working very hard i’m a great
candidate and i would be a great face
for the rest of the party and keep in
mind again even if you’re out of state
it still
is valuable to you to help make sure i
get elected because once one of us
becomes governor it becomes a domino
effect and they see wow libertarianism
works they’re winners they are able to
win big offices and then it benefits
everybody so me winning benefits
everyone yes
and you get a beat um
nope just lost his name almost very
they’re sharp there we go yeah and you
get your feet
there we go
and until i run out of thank you cards
i’ve been i’ve been writing thank you
cards to every single person that has
donated to my account even a dollar so
which was tough and there was one person
it was funny um i was eating oreo
cookies while i was doing it and i
couldn’t find my little water deal so i
was actually licking envelopes so
somebody was like it looked like there
was oreos in my and i was like yeah
i remember what day that was
oh man
that’s amazing yeah so three great ways
that people could help out your campaign
and that’s incredibly important so i did
drop those into the chat guys so twitter
um find her at natalie bruno um and of
course elect make sure
you guys get over there to help natalie
set this entire nation free
um i know that you wanted to hop off
here a little bit early because you do
have your google call coming up but uh
any last time i still have a couple
questions i was going to give you oh
yeah i was going to give you like a last
minute plug
or if any questions come in
no um last minute plugs like obviously
we had a great weekend
um we are going to have continuous other
events coming up i am planning so
mark it on your calendar
the weekend right before valentine’s day
which i believe is february
11th 12th or 12th 13th something like 12
13. yep 12 13. um you think i had some
good speakers come in this weekend oh
just you wait i’m not going to spoil it
but i have some great people coming in
and we’re going to have a giant
fundraiser rally and i’m calling it for
the love of liberty and it’s going to be
it’s going to be amazing so mark your
calendars be right save up your tax
refund whenever you get it when they
give you some of your taxes back from
stealing it from you
um so that way you can come and uh
you know put on there to come to
oklahoma because it’s going to be
something that you don’t want to miss
question from the chat um have we raised
enough to get you on the poll
we operate a little bit differently here
in oklahoma we don’t have like a state
election debate committee or anything
they’re done by different entities so
there really isn’t
a magic number to that but i will tell
you a benefit that i have because i’m in
marketing and advertising
i handle a lot of advertising dollars
for the broadcast companies the
newspapers and stuff so it makes sense
to them financially to uh not exclude me
from the debates or be unfair so i’ll
just put that out there i’m not worried
that as much as a normal libertarian
would be
you i think you got this in the bag i’m
so excited i’m so excited to
to be like i i had her on before she was
governor um
yeah i i’m i’m blown away by everything
that you’re doing this conversation
tonight is is the start of
an incredibly important one i’m excited
to see how you’re going to impact
oklahoma but this is a conversation of
course we dove in tonight to just to to
the conversation mostly centered around
a little more around oklahoma and a
little bit of the the principles around
it and why those are bad but this is
just the beginning guys we’re going to
continue on we’re going to
keep having these conversations and
change and set people free in our
lifetimes for the right reasons for the
right causes and on the right principles
um so i i want to thank you natalie um
so much for coming on i know you’ve been
incredibly busy
you you posted your schedule for like
this weekend and i was like i i i don’t
know how you you you’re like you know
what let’s just throw jason on the list
too um do it right i mean
i’ll sleep when i’m dead yeah yeah
it’s not like you’re campaigning or
anything so
but i want to thank you so much for
coming on and you’re always more than
welcome if you ever want to come back
you’re all just drop me a line i will
love to have you come on we’ll talk more
about the criminal justice system maybe
that prison reform um idea
and um but with that
any last last last last minute things
okay perfect nope i said all i needed to
say just need those actions three things
guys you can do at least one of the
three things yes
make sure you give her the follow-up
give her the retweets give her the likes
make sure you guys are also
volunteering go get that go get
like becoming an activist is the easiest
thing because you’re already passionate
about it you’re already listening to
boring old jason with amazing guests
you might as well put it into motion
let’s go
but with that i i hope you have a great
night natalie and uh i’m gonna let you
go so i appreciate you so much thank you
and i’ll see you again here soon
bye everybody
all right
and there we go
and um so
what an incredible conversation make
sure you guys are getting out there make
sure you guys are helping out natalie
show her some love give her some support
that’s that’s all that i can ask of you
on that but the sentencing reform yes
you guys can see she laid out a couple
examples tonight
um she
gave us some some things to think about
the sentencing process that we have
oftentimes we have over sentencing
and in some cases right she highlighted
rape cases where those are being
so we have to get involved we have to
get engaged and we have to make changes
this is going to what’s going to be
incredibly important for for for the
future of our country and the future of
our criminal justice system
i wish i could hear you but i have five
strikes in a row all right ryan
bedford’s got five strikes in a row so
so with that we got we gotta hop off but
but guys um i wanna thank you guys all
for for coming out hanging out the rest
of the week is lined up with some heavy
hitting great content of course from
mighty waters media if you guys tune
back in tomorrow night uh with the the
one the only spy coin and matt wright
man on the left um they’re gonna have a
great time muddy waters media
traversing the muddy waters um we’re
gonna have a good time with that
wednesday night spike cohen coming on
for my fellow americans and thursday
night we’re going to have matt wright
with the writer’s block fantastic lineup
of course and of course of course of
course of course friday nights
from bayous to igloos we’ve got
eskimo libertarian and cajun libertarian
coming on to chatted up with you guys
talking about the current events of
what’s going on so
plenty of things to sign up for plenty
of things to get involved with so make
sure you guys have the notifications
turned on hit the notification bell if
you if you’ve got it on the your your
preferred platform
make sure you guys are helping support
the streams as they’re coming through i
appreciate love you all so very much
but with that you guys have a great
night and i’ll see you guys next week
where i will be having on the one the
only mr sean grijalva we’ll be talking a
little bit about veteran issues so be a
good time
stay tuned we’ll see you guys soon stay
free stay well be good

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Jason Lyon
Jason Lyon
Jason Lyon - USN Submarine Vet -Minarchist/Constitutionalist - #Liberty advocate - Principles over party - Constitution over Idolatry
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