(((My Fellow Americans))) #105: Michael Boldin

DISCLOSURE

FULL TRANSCRIPT TEXT

i’ll be buried in my [Music] that is [Music] before i become [Music] we have solely changed [Music] i’ll be buried in my grave [Music] that is [Music] but it seems like since that day [Music] we have sorely changed [Music] oh [Music] south carolina you’re watching my fellow americans with your host spike cullen yes yes it’s me oh thank you oh please oh thank you keep clapping keep dropping crap for the summer miracle how would we know that you wanted the summer miracle if you didn’t keep clapping welcome to my fellow americans i am literally spike cohen we have a fantastic guest for you unlike the previous 104 episodes before this where our episode where our guests were they were okay but this guest so much better speaking of former guests um we had a great loss uh today uh with the uh news that we got of the loss of my friend and and someone that a lot of people know john mcafee um who died in a spanish prison uh instead of by his wife’s side um and the reason he is dead uh the reason he well at the very least the reason that he was in a spanish prison was because he didn’t submit to the us government’s uh extortive tax system and it’s it’s possible that uh that he may have still been alive or at the very least he would have spent his final days by his wife janice’s side um john i i i hate that i won’t get to talk to you again janice i am so sorry i i can i can’t i have nothing else to say but i’m sorry um let us resolve ourselves to end this extortion system uh this is a muddy waters media production check us out everywhere we are on facebook we are on youtube instagram anchor twitter it everywhere we’re on all the social media platforms we’re on all the podcasting platforms if you want to look at or listen to things on the internet we are on whatever that thing is be sure to like us follow us five stars comment on this share hit the bell if you’re on youtube so that your phone explodes with notifications let me make sure that yeah my phone’s on you uh you want 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waters media if you woke up today and said my god if i have another drink cup of coffee in my life it’s going to make me sick i instead want to drink something that’s made out of nothing but masala chai cacao mushrooms turmeric sea salt cinnamon and literally nothing else well friends i have some fantastic news for you you can have all of that in a black tin every single month sent to you so you can hold it up with to a black backdrop like this guy did um and this has one seventh of the caffeine that coffee has just enough to wake you up but not enough to get you all wired and yet i’m pretty wired and i use this stuff so you know results may vary but if you want to try it out go to moneywatersmedia.com it tastes exactly like that would sound like that combination of ingredients there it’s coffee alternative is yes that’s a good description of it jack casey who has brought these two books that i refuse to read because if they’re good i’m gonna feel bad about trashing it every week and if they’re bad then i’m gonna feel bad about trying to get you to buy them the royal green and in silver throne it which is about there’s a ring and there’s a butterfly that’s trying to stab you there’s a third book coming out called crown by gold that i also will never read but you should so if you go to the royalgreen.com today you can buy these books from possible cult leader jack casey jonathan reels is running for congress but unfortunately he’s not even a human being because according to the federal election committee until he raises five thousand dollars he’s not even a person he’s being de-personed by the federal election commission and if you want to help jonathan reels become a real boy go to jonathan jonathan.cash and you can help him today fierce luxury fierce i don’t know what this is because this is a new one what is it fierce luxury it’s a high-end bag and accessories consignment store based online they carry the hottest brands like louis vuitton chanel gucci and harem herms harem her like hermes louis vuitton chanel and gucci i know those ones uh can sign with them for a 30 feet that’s 20 less than most consignment stores i’m told by ashley find them online at fierceluxtreebyashley.com and on facebook and their exclusive group fierce luxury by ashley adderpan let me see what this is about looking for a game show to haunt your dreams what look no further than adderpan the premier release from irvin games adderpan is a first person five nights style game featuring creepy characters jump scares galore and even a few easter eggs hidden amongst the game files themselves join dolly and her haunted imaginary friends as you play the role of a school security guard trying to survive the night shift armed only with a camera and a flashlight can you make it until morning before they get a piece of you jesus expansions are already in progress by the developer and will be available for free as they are released and is currently available on windows pc you can find adder pan and upcoming expansions on steam for the low low price of five dollars kind come find out if you have what it takes to unravel the tail that sounds horrible horrific well folks if these sponsors have caused you personal injury and you live in the state of florida i have some great news for you if you go to chrisreynoldslaw.com you can sue me for doing this to you personal injury attorney chris reynolds attorney at law is the attorney to hire when you want to sue people in florida and i know what you’re thinking don’t say that that’s anti-semitic chris reynolds attorney at law chrisreynoldslaw.com the intro and outro music to this and every episode of my fellow americans comes from the amazing and talented mr joe davey that’s j-o-d-a-v-i check him out on facebook on soundcloud go to his bandcamp go to joedavymusic.bandcamp.com buy his entire discography it’s like 25 bucks it’s some of the best music you’ll ever hear go buy it today i love his music he’s i actually just had a new album drop i forget what it’s called but i listened to the whole thing it’s fantastic joe daveymusic.bandcamp.com i’d like to thank lible for this delicious purified ultra pure water that i’m drinking on this episode episode of my fellow americans it’s bpa-free non-carbonated and kosher certified made in the usa just like me assuming i’m bpa-free i don’t i don’t know what bpas are but i assume i don’t have any of those thank you shout out to tara and turks’s mom and him as always folks my guest tonight is a fantastic guy according to the southern poverty law center my guest is an ideologue who has spent years promoting the idea that states can nullify federal legislation that they don’t like the very same argument pushed by defenders of slavery and segregation it sounds sinister he’s also the founder and director of the 10th amendment center ladies and gentlemen my fellow americans please welcome to the show mr michael bolden mikey michael after reading that how how dare you actually i am thoroughly entertained that was like the best live read intro i’ve ever gone through i mean the i’m not gonna read these books but you should i i’m sold by that my so what we do what we encourage are we say if you want to be sponsored by our show what we actually say is if you’d like for your product or service to be roasted live three to three nights a week then come to muddy waters media because that’s literally what we do we do not take our advertiser seriously you would think that we would but it’s a proven formula um and they’re actually getting more sales from us than they do from other people because we we tell people basically why they shouldn’t buy these no one likes boring advertisements at least if you’re making people laugh like now i’m like oh all those stupid ads i’ve seen scrolling through social for mudwater oh they’ve kind of drawn me in and i’ve clicked it so they keep showing it to me over and over again i might actually have to get it now it’s you know what it’s actually not bad it’s actually not bad and thank you for the 50 that you paid me to kind of uh reinforce your really good sponsorship skills yes you’re welcome i’m glad that that’s already been paid and that you don’t expect what are we doing thanks for having me man payton yeah no i’m happy to have you on man uh you uh are someone who so when i told like other people in muddy waters media and other people on my volunteer team i’m like i have michael bolden on do you have any questions for him they fangirled so hard that they forgot to give me questions to ask you so we have none i mean no i’m literally like that’s we’re going to talk about outer pan like what what are your thoughts about this like we we have we have adder pam we have uh you know the five nights what is a five night you know are you are you five night style game featuring dolly and her haunted man i already downloaded it but i figured we have to have a conversation and i don’t want to get so distracted being a school crossing guard we could we could let’s do a follow-up episode where we play outer pan together on live pewdiepie we’ll just do it like a pewdiepie style that’s like pewdiepie but just for adderpan um so okay so you are uh the uh this is your first time on uh my fellow americans and whenever i have a guest on that implies a second is on the way uh uh well we’re gonna play outer pan together so tell us a little bit about how you got to where you are uh in in terms of your your ideologue status according to the splc what what got was there any kind of like major moments like aha moments that led you to where you are in terms of your thoughts on things or was it sort of a gradual progression over time like what what’s the the genesis or i mean it’s always a gradual progression and i look at you know i started my organization back in 2006 after doing a number of years of anti-war activism where i got to that point probably i think i got brought to liberty first and foremost from from michael moore of all people wow i just remember seeing this old documentary in the late 90s and he was uh you know walking around doing a book tour and i remember him pointing up at he was in times square and he’s like he kept hammering on how the two main parties were basically the same garbage in one way or another you know they mean they have some varying variances but he was in times square and they had i think it was bush and maybe bob dole i don’t know some monster and no was clinton a dole and he’s like see i can’t even tell the difference between those two and i’m like what this is amazing now not that i’m really in on much of the rest of the ideology uh but somehow that just got me thinking like oh okay everything’s kind of a mess uh these people are all full of [ __ ] they’re all evil and i just kind of started digging in the internet brought me to harry brown i used to listen to when i was working a customer service job years ago i used to listen to his uh radio show i guess we’d call it a podcast these days i think it was weekly at the time but i used to i was literally consuming so much harry brown i still go to harrybrown.org from a lot of his old articles his september 12th article talking about you know why do they hate us this was transformational for me so you know starting i decided to start getting active on some stuff and i had volunteered with a palestinian right to return organization called the al auta awda because i just that was for whatever reason that’s where i got in i saw injustice and i wanted to do something about it uh my volunteer efforts didn’t go real far there and then of course the iraq war in 2003 started and the night that those bombs started dropping i was out in the streets at a protest in front of the federal building here in los angeles almost getting run over by some cop uh watching tracked armored vehicles showing up to break up the crowd and that was really my motivation for me it’s always been about war and over time i just recognized the people that i was marching in the streets with who i still will today if there were anyone doing it really unfortunately they’re all gone they weren’t really anti-war they were stopped the war so we have more money to pay for more social programs more health care more education and honestly even though i don’t want government involved in any of that stuff i can actually sympathize with the idea of if you’re going to spend this money spend it on something other than murdering people so i can sympathize oh i get that but like over time i just kind of got tired of well why can’t we just be anti-war so uh i decided after a few years it was 2006 mid-2006 i’m like ah you know i’d come across this website first amendment center sounds kind of familiar right and i’m like you know there should be some other amendment centers so i bought domain names for the fourth amendment center the fifth amendment center and the tenth amendment center and i just started blogging my goal was just to start sharing some thoughts my uneducated own vision on things regarding the fourth amendment the fifth amendment and the tenth as the line in the sand pointing out that oh everything that they they do they’re not really authorized in the first place or even if they are they’re lying about how much it’s gonna cost or unintended consequences and all that other garbage and the one that kind of caught on really was 10th amendment center and here we are today i have that featured profile page now some people have a southern poverty law center listing to just say oh these are the scary people i have a full profile page uh for about 10 years now they’ve loved me for that long wow it’s a badge of honor i guess it’s fascinating because they included me in this 30 liters of the radical right publication their hate watch uh publication some years ago and i don’t know i mean we haven’t really hung out much other than a few minutes in in denver at the convention recently and now but i think it’s pretty obvious that i’m not some weird right winger at all right and anyone had done anyone who follows you can see that you’re uh you’re a libertarian who’s applying an amendment that’s ostensibly supposed to limit government to conversations about why we need to be limiting government power and what unlimited government looks like that’s not far right that’s that’s just common sense at this point yeah i guess you know really when you get down to it and i’ve had uh people from the bush administration come out and do an op-ed against us uh talking about us as the aclu wing of the tea party some years ago because we opposed the national defense authorization act and indefinite detention which is absolutely disgusting of course the right has often hated our work on legalization efforts on restricting police things like that the left doesn’t like us well when the left is in power it really just changes who’s in charge in my twitter profile i say something like you know i’m a commie or i’m a libtard depending who has control of power in washington dc and that’s the way it’s always been uh but splc they did this thing saying oh this guy’s one of the leaders of the radical right and mother jones it was kind of cool uh they actually did an article defending me on this saying like okay maybe we’re not on board with everything this guy has to say but you know you can’t be a pro pot anti-war kind of a libertarian type of a person and really be part of the radical right so uh that was kind of cool to see but i i keep it there as a badge of honor people used to say you know just sue sue the southern poverty law center right in their 60 million endowment from here in my apartment with no pants on i’m not going to pull that off but at first i thought about ignoring it but i decided to just embrace it because when the establishment people hate you you’ve got to be doing something right and it’s not just the establishment people at splc we’ve gotten it from mark levin on the right the southern poverty law in the southern poverty law center heritage foundation across the political spectrum rachel maddow did a 10-minute segment on some years ago a full 10-minute segment to talk about these nullifier people they’re they’re basically trying to resurrect john calhoun’s confederacy they’re neo-confederate pro-slavery monsters and they even scrolled through our website but someone on the graphic team cut out the first part of the website as they were scrolling through our nullification efforts they cut out the pro-marijuana legalization part because they were trying to present a certain story wow that is amazing first of all i told you to put your pants on for this show so i’m a little upset already but second of all i i i want to say oh this is what rage against the machine comes in about pants though rage against the machine talked about [ __ ] you i won’t do what you told me oh oh i thought they did a song about pants i’m like i wish i released specific that’s the most specific rage against the machine song um caitlyn clovin over on facebook who is an awesome human being says i will start the third amendment center yes that’s amazing i was literally about to say what you know i wanted i i wish i could go back in time and be like the third amendment warrior and you know like i would be really like militant about it and i’d drive around and like raise my fist shall not be quartered like you know like really be into it and the fact is it’s not come up yet but i’ll be ready when it does and i’ll be like i just gotta get that domain you gotta i would imagine someone already has it so you have been told you i you know when i did just brief reading uh about you i was you know i saw that you were both a you know communist sympathizer who wants to you know take away our protections from the thugs and savages that want to destroy us uh and that you’re also a neo-confederate who wants to bring back slavery and segregation i feel like maybe there’s some happy medium between there that you occupy tell us about the 10th amendment i guess okay yeah cool uh what do we what am i telling you about 10th amendment in general 10th amendment center well no the 10th amendment center what it is precisely that you what the what your purpose is for that foundation for that center okay uh i’m gonna you know just cite kind of an old revolutionary this guy named samuel adams and the way he put it the way he described it it’s from this letter that he wrote in 1771-ish he basically said the truth is all could be free if they valued freedom and defended it as they ought i’m paraphrasing but that’s pretty close but basically the notion here is you can’t just only learn about freedom learn about liberty you can’t just understand and appreciate it you also have to know how to advance it so it’s a one-two punch if you love liberty you want freedom you understand it you value it if you don’t know how to get from point a where we are today living under the largest government the largest empire in the history of the world don’t let those right wingers who tell you you have to vote for the their team team red to stop the chinese communists because the u.s federal government spends somewhere between seven and nine times the amount as the chinese government does with one-third the population this is the largest government history so how do we get from point a to point b liberty freedom and so we do this kind of a combination where we do a lot of education not just on natural not just on liberty on the structure of the constitution but how do you actually defend that if the constitution is going to be the line in the sand even though we know and i know we’re going to talk about spooner a little bit words on paper don’t defend themselves they can’t enforce themselves and expecting to them to is actually pretty foolish so what can we the people what can individuals do to advance liberty in the face of a government that doesn’t want it liberty to advance on almost anything whether it’s a menthol cigarette or a plant or a firearm or conquering other countries or ripping people off printing money devaluing things i mean it’s almost endless i mean joe biden’s new budget and you know i mean not just he’s the current guy i used to get complaints even from our members sometimes why do you guys hammer on donald trump so much well because he was the head dude of the largest government in the history of the world and i’m a constitutional organization that i run that means 90 95 of the stuff they do they shouldn’t be doing so no one who’s in that organization is honestly a good person in my books you don’t participate with the empire you try to resist it reject it nullified and bring it down at every turn that’s what you do when you love liberty so uh biden’s budget i think he’s actually doubling the amount of federal funding for the so-called cops program this is a federal nationalization of police basically handing out money then this kind of gets local law enforcement to focus on federal priorities and so this is these are not good people whether you’re from the left or the right if you want to deal with stuff our view is the best way forward no matter what your view is is decentralization and localism i would give the same argument to a socialist to someone on the other side what’s the right term i don’t know what these days and then to libertarians when you want to accomplish something forget the 202 area code even exist those people are not on your side unless you happen to be you know with them then they’ll do what you want but otherwise if you want to accomplish something you have to do it locally or in your state yeah if if they are on your side you’re probably one of the baddies like you’re probably a bad guy if you don’t want if they’re on your side we probably hate you um and i like i like that you’re focusing on what we need to do as opposed to just saying well it says here you’re supposed to do this okay you know for example here here’s the exact wording of the tenth amendment uh the powers not delegated to the united states by the constitution nor prohibited it nor prohibited by it to the states are reserved to the states respectively or to the people in other words 28 words pretty straightforward stuff right right if the constitution doesn’t explicitly say the federal government should be doing this then they shouldn’t be doing it yeah well that’s not what happened right that’s not where we are we now like you said have the biggest most expensive arguably most or definitely one of the most destructive and infringing governments in human history which started with what ostensibly was supposed to be an exercise in constitutionally limited government i need you to explain right now what the hell happened benjamin franklin on the last day of the philadelphia convention back in 1787 and i don’t know his exact words but he you could find it libertyfund.org has all those debates in the in the conventions on the state and in philadelphia as well but franklin he basically said okay you know this is the republic if you can keep it conversation but before that in the convention he specifically said i figure this is going to be well administered for a number of years but it can only end in despotism but he was on board because he’s like we got to do something now let’s just get things rolling and then if we’re just going to leave it to people we’re going to leave it to things just to play out the way they should it’s not going to play out too nicely so we were kind of warned about this james madison and federalist 48 specifically told us multiple times that what he called a mere demarcation on parchment literally a parchment barrier is what many of the leading founders considered the constitution it needs something other than the limits the separation of powers on paper to actually protect the less powerful from the more feeble from the more powerful people in government something else has to happen and what is that something else well we can i mean i could list quote after quote after quote but just you know maybe one for example james iredell this is in the north carolina ratifying convention he was actually nominated to the supreme court by george washington one of the first guys to serve their top legal mind of the time he specifically says when the government usurps power usurp exercises power that’s not delegated to it which is constantly right if we’re talking about surveillance prohibition on plants and guns unconstitutional wars all their programs etc etc it happens constantly what did he say was the response he didn’t say oh the people will vote the bums out no he specifically said the people must resist there has to be a resistance resistance not like resistance of choosing one party or another but actual resistance thomas jefferson in his kentucky resolutions his first draft of the kentucky resolutions of 1798 he specifically said when government does mal administration again i’m paraphrasing when they exercise powers in ways that you don’t like the change of the people in government is the constitutional remedy so when they’re just doing bad policy vote the bums out but when they exercise powers not delegated to them it has to be a nullification a level of resistance on a state local an individual level and that i think is something that’s been missing all along most people say oh they do something i don’t like let’s go to the federal courts in the hopes that the federal courts are going to somehow limit federal power let’s vote the bums out in the hopes that the new bombs say oh all this power you’ve you know left on the plate for me i don’t want it so most people when they see things happening in washington dc they’re basically relying on the entity that is doing the bad stuff in the first place to somehow change course and stop doing the stuff that has already been doing that it gave itself the power to do and that’s gonna somehow play out well well that’s why we live under the largest empire in the history of the planet yeah do you know what this hen house needs new foxes better foxes good foxes we need good foxes in this hen house this is this is a problem and i mean we can get into the specifics of how you know a lot of this started with just a perversion of the commerce clause to mean anything you know oh it says regulate commerce therefore we should be able to tell people whether they can come here or not or whether you should be able to own yeah but but the reality is and and yeah besides being i guess boring well this show is often boring so sorry uh but but in addition to that i talk about this stuff all the time but i can joke about it but but here’s the thing it doesn’t matter how they did it they did it they looked at the rules and went yeah i do what i want anyway and so they just did it and because they have the power to do so and that’s that people are like you said they’re relying on a mechanism that was designed to create that power you know we just saw this with the umpteenth time that the supreme court has looked their defendants and and plaintiffs and the american people in the face and said yeah this tax and mandate in obamacare are completely unconstitutional we’re going to keep it going anyway because what what are you going to do what are you going to do guys what are you gonna do this is what we heard 2010 2010 i i gave a presentation in fort worth texas and i said you know uh this is uh you know this is obviously gonna go to the supreme court right and i’m like you know the supreme court may have an opinion on obamacare but let them come and enforce it because the supreme court can enforce their opinions right right so really it is incumbent upon the people the cities and the states especially on the affordable care act something which really relies on cooperation just like everything else between federal and state governments the in one of these so-called fake shutdowns i think was 2013. they always like to call it a shutdown but the military industrial complex never shuts down the police state never shuts down the surveillance state never stops so it’s never really a shutdown it’s just some political scam that they’re pulling on us to shut down perks right yeah they close the parks yeah during one of these shutdowns national governors association was very alarmed with what’s going on and they put out a press release talking about this they said states are partners with the federal government on most federal programs the dirty little secret that none of these people who love the monster state want us to know is that partnerships don’t work too well when half the team quits so when the federal government for example wants to require localities to help the federal government enforce federal immigration law and then they don’t do that we can see there was actually just a study released just last november at uh pnas national academy of sciences now that talked about how immigration sanctuary cities immigration sanctuary states by merely saying we’re not going to participate in enforcement and removal operations in some areas and in other areas they’re literally just not participating in a very narrow program called 287g basically holding people in prison beyond their release date which is what the dhs wants them to do right literally just doing this has caused a 30 to 50 reduction in deportations so a hands-off non-compliance rosa parks approach is incredibly effective because the federal government relies on the states to help enforce stuff ice in their annual enforcement and removal removal operations report every year ero report they specifically cite these jurisdictions that don’t help enforce federal immigration law we’ve seen the same thing happen connecticut just this week just became the 18th state to legalize cannabis for recreational purposes 18 states for recreational another 18 with medical 36 states people and states 36 states are saying to the federal government who still considers this plant illegal all the time in every situation at the highest level too not just illegal but like at the moment gonzalez versus race they basically took the position that poor angel rage who i think is a hero there should be a street named after her she had a a massive cancer tumor cancerous tumor in her brain and her doctor recommended cannabis to help treat it at least alleviate the symptoms now many years later this was back in early 2000s these days we’re starting to see some studies and this is not really my field but we’re starting to see some studies that cannabis can maybe even eat some cancer cells so she’s still alive today maybe that’s why but she was told you know you should probably try using cannabis and what did they do her and her caregiver diane monson they had six plants growing in diane’s backyard they never bought them brought them across state lines they never bought or sold them they were given the seeds growing at home consuming them in their own backyard and what happened the federal government the dea with the local sheriff’s department a partnership as always they came to our house stomped out those six plants can you imagine what that was like it was basically like i don’t give a [ __ ] about your stupid cancer i got supremacy clauses yep yep just evil but so she went to the supreme court the supreme court ruled against her they ruled against they said look it doesn’t matter if you grow it in your backyard you consume it in your own home this is somehow interstate commerce even if you’ve never bought or sold it clarence thomas who i sometimes agree with oftentimes do not just like all these supreme court people he was actually very correct when he says if the federal government’s interstate commerce power is six plants in someone’s backyard their commerce power is limitless and i think he was absolutely correct when it came to that that’s correct yeah yep and perfect example the government does not care about the limitations of any of any of the amendments i mean we know that they don’t care about first or second or it seems like the third they’re largely they’ve decided there’s better ways to some people tell you the police state and all that federal funding is kind of a standing army today i don’t know that’s technically that’s correct but it makes a lot of sense to me and it makes a lot of sense it’s fair it’s fair and so they ignore the constitution constantly and yet we’re seeing you know the people i love that the people that are like nullify you must want segregation and slavery even though you’ve said neither what you’ve talked about are things like how statements immigration and weed immigration and weed like how how especially with cannabis right cannabis is effectively legal to most people now yes that is that is what has happened it’s it’s not legal to sell across state lines and there’s still a lot of restrictions and things like that but it’s effectively for day-to-day use cannabis is now legal for the majority of americans i live in south carolina where they will straight up put you in jail for a long time for it but most americans at this point you know with california and decriminalization to places like uh massachusetts and and other and other large states the majority of people now live where uh weed is either legal or or decriminalized to the point of effectively being legal while the federal government still continues to say nope this thing is as bad as heroin you aren’t allowed to do research with it you aren’t allowed to own it you aren’t allowed to consume it uh you know we don’t even believe that they they still have hemp illegal and and hemp is legal now on a federal level but 17 states previously legalized it before this farm bill was signed a few years ago it’s surprised that trump actually signed it hemp is legal but it is still illegal to put it into food products although i can go down to a coffee shop right here in downtown l.a and find hemp infused cbd infused coffee all day long i can find cbd infused foods and teas and i can find thc infused all kinds of stuff so this is another great example of nullification in action is you know when enough people in enough states decide to do something when the federal government says they can’t eventually the federal government has to back off just to save face that’s basically what i had to say somewhere around 2014 or so in a video talking about how the people in the states found the winning path when it came to cannabis and this is something that we should replicate on almost everything else we’re starting to see this and i’ve been pushing for this since about 2010 or so we’re starting to see this on the right to keep and bear arms we just have just this year five states that are starting to take this move there was some reporting on this uh they did an interview with me uh at reason magazine recently in an article and jacob sullem just did a follow-up there reason just this morning talking about how look the federal government based on this we can get back to james madison federalist 46 he told us well what’s going to happen if the federal government doesn’t follow these rules well what do you do about it he did not say vote the bums out he did not say sue in court he did not say any of that he said a refusal to cooperate with officers of the union his words not mine this has been reaffirmed by the supreme court in something called the anti-commandeering doctrine in a series of five major cases from 1842 this is preg versus pennsylvania it’s a fugitive slave act case where the federal government tried to commandeer all the northern states to act like slave catchers to catch runaway slaves and send them back into bondage in the south and they all said we’re not participating in this they took it to court they won the federal government held that you cannot even if they’re gonna say well we can do whatever we want they can’t require states localities to help them out and the most recent case was a sports betting case in new jersey in 2018 and samuel alito of all people specifically says you know a greater affront to our system can is not easier to imagine than the federal government telling a state legislature what it can or cannot do even if their actions conflict with federal law so the anti-commandarian doctrine is incredibly powerful that’s why we have immigration sanctuary cities that’s why when donald trump aggressively tried to pursue them he got his ass kicked repeatedly in court i had an article that i wrote for the hill right after his first executive order it’s probably early 2017 right off the bat on this i said look this is this is the legal principle this is what they’re doing they’re just taking a hands-off approach if they just hold fast it doesn’t matter what the federal government does they’re going to win on the ground and in court that’s how it’s played out now we’re starting to see the same thing happen on the right to keep and bear arms in missouri just on the 12th of this month after eight years of us working on this they passed something called the second amendment preservation act house bill 85. basically this bans the state and its political subdivisions local communities from participating in the enforcement of most federal gun control past president future arizona also has a very similar law that will be going into effect in august where they’re banning the state from enforcing any federal gun control that isn’t on the books in arizona now arizona has their own gun control problems now they have to start repealing them on a state level texas has a new law where they’re saying just on sound suppressors or what they like to call silencers they repealed the state restrictions on silencers and then at the same time they said we’re not going to enforce any federal restrictions on silencers that don’t have concurrent laws on a state level and then montana and idaho are saying if there’s any new federal gun control from the biden administration it’s kind of partisan but we’ll take it for now we won’t participate in that so we’re starting to see this thing catch on in some other areas and i like to see it catch on and many many more yeah it’s it is a it’s i hope it’s the the foot in the door to the idea that instead of constantly running to dc where we’re not being heard if you’re not a multi-billion dollar lobbying organization you’re not going to get anywhere in dc in any real way uh or if you’re uh you know unless you’re in i mean we just saw there was a major movement last year whether you agree with it or not in the midst of covid there was this massive movement of people saying among other things we want police accountability we want an end to the war on drugs some of them were even calling for reparation like there were all these things that were being called for and the response from the political establishment is you have to choose from donald trump or the architect of every policy you’re protesting right now and his vp one of the most brutal enforcers of those policies someone who laughed about putting truant mothers or putting mothers in jail because their teenage children were truant from school so she’s having rounding up working single mothers who didn’t even know where their kids were and throwing them in prison and if they had priors they were in prison for even longer because they didn’t realize that their teenage kids weren’t at school she laughed about this and this is who they looked at the american people and said uh yeah but she’s a black woman and look she’s wearing timberlands you go chick and then and and that makes it okay this is what the political establishment gives us you know in the midst of being told we want to see an end to police uh um a qualified immunity civil asset forfeiture the war on drugs cash bail all these different things their response is uh yeah um juneteenth is now a holiday like this is the nonsense it’s a holiday that we’re going to rush through so fast that it’s to the point of being disrespectful that the usps the post on their website i had to go to the post office over the weekend and i’m like i should look it up they had a whole page saying we don’t have the capability of being able i mean the postal service this is a government agency they’re terrible in the first place but they’re like we can’t shut down in 24 to 48 hours it’s almost like you didn’t even give it the due respect that it deserves and it’s just political grandstanding but all these things that you’re talking about ending qualified immunity the drug war militarization of police asset forfeiture all this stuff can be ended on a state level whether the federal government wants us to or not qualified immunity is a federal program well federal program it is a judicial invention it was created out of thin air by the supreme court and there’s something called the incorporation doctrine which i know many people in the legal world will love and we could argue about that some other time but it’s basically been enforced on all 50 states so whenever someone violates someone’s rights as a cop kills them beats them whatever it may be and you sue you’re basically going to federal court and in federal court they’ve created a just an insurmountable hurdle where no one is held accountable so in colorado new mexico some people would say connecticut i disagree but colorado and new mexico they’ve now created a process where you can take that case to state court and it specifically says qualified immunity is not a defense under this section that doesn’t mean the judges are going to be good but they’ve created a mechanism where qualified immunity can be just an end run around there’s a bill that was just filed in ohio i think it’s house bill 332 that’s up for consideration they have a full year session there in ohio which is kind of weird same here in california so there’s movement on that on asset forfeiture civil asset forfeiture just this year arizona starts to require a criminal conviction before they can take people’s stuff they had already opted out of the federal equitable sharing program is your audience familiar with equitable sharing you think uh this is from civil asset forfeiture we’ve we’ve touched on it before yeah yeah so equitable sharing the brief version is even if you restrict the state from participating in civil asset forfeiture there’s a federal program here in california it was notorious for this there was very good restrictions on asset forfeiture on the state level but the feds have this equitable sharing problem so all they have to do is say oh uh well this looks like a federal case let’s call it the atf or the dea or some other agency that shouldn’t exist and then they do what’s called adoption the federal government takes the case the local government still does all the leg work on the ground the local cops do it the feds take all the money and then they divvy out 80 to the locals so even if you end civil asset forfeiture on a state level the cops are going to continue doing it with the feds almost constantly we saw this in north carolina we’ve seen this in uh here in california and elsewhere so now there’s i think nine states that have opted out between 70 to 85 of federal equitable sharing program funding which is actually a real positive move it’s california utah arizona nebraska uh new mexico colorado i think ohio but so these types of things are happening and of course in oregon for example they just had a bill signed into law where they’re basically saying we’re not going to participate in a large swath not all of it but at least a step forward of the federal 1033 militarization problem this is this program where the pentagon hands out all kinds of crap to locals a lot of people will tell you this is just old gear from foreign wars which is bad enough but that’s nonsense the aclu did a really good report on this which showed that about 30 of it is brand new so this is definitely uh this is definitely a handout and it’s brand new equipment but oregon montana and a number of other states are saying we’re not going to participate in at least all of this and i think that’s a step forward it’s a step forward that is not happening waiting on joe biden or donald trump or bill clinton or who is the other guy bush any of these people obama none of these people ever end this stuff they always see the previous administration as a floor and continue moving forward with more and more power more and more empire and i am rambling i’m sorry man this is no this is good stuff this i literally i was hoping to be able to take a nap like if you were gonna go like another couple i was like you know what i’m just gonna this guy’s got the show wake me up and i’m gonna say folks thanks so much for tuning in to this amazing episode no you’re on this correct this episode is sponsored by the third amendment center the third amendment center shall not be quartered um so the uh the the thing with the the uh military surplus program we often talk about the equipment that’s bad enough they’re getting training for this use of this equipment they’re getting military training from military contractors for military equipment with only with explicitly military purposes and then with that training and equipment in their heads they’re being unleashed on our communities and being told that there’s a war in the streets against the thugs and the drug cartels and everything else and they go out wound up and then we’re shocked when there’s these increases in in shooting and then we told them that they’re not going to be held accountable in any real way if they do anything wrong and then we’re shocked when they kill whatever they want whenever they want during the blm protest last year i was in the middle of a move i mean i’m i’m living on the same street that i was at the time but i did get some pandemic pricing which means i got like 900 a month off of an apartment moving at the end of may 2020 which is amazing but i moved right during i didn’t know it was going to be that bad yeah literally in the middle of it and within the first three days of this i’m out on my balcony i’m looking out we’re a block and a half from lapd headquarters so we’re right in the midst of partner sarah and i i look out the window and all i see is a swat team and there’s a some kind of i’m not really sure what it was but there was some firearm pointing white at my face and luckily i dodged back but my instinct is when i see cops is run because i’m afraid of them to be honest with you when they’re unaccountable and they’re basically doing stuff like this all the time and mind you we’re not even talking about the problem that is joint state federal task forces there are about 500 of these things around the country they operate under something called mousse or moa’s memorandum of agreement or memorandum of understanding sorry i got that backwards where state and local law enforcement agencies are basically sending officers to act as federal agents so even if you restrict them from participating in for example no knock warrants or choke holds or things like that they will oftentimes claim well we’re not actually a local police officer anymore i’m part of a federal task force so these state or local restrictions don’t have any impact on me and so that’s a whole nother problem some localities i think san francisco may have been one of the first are starting to opt out of some of these terrorism task forces which is a very positive step but i think that we’re very far away or far off from actually seeing that happen in a large scale i would imagine so and but that’s the work that you’re doing is to work towards that now how much more or less effective do you think you’d be if you wore pants way less by like 80 90 percent is it it’s that freeing no one wants to see me in pants i saw you in pants and i wasn’t i was well you didn’t you weren’t even impressed at all i wasn’t underwhelmed but i wasn’t over i was just i was overwhelmed so so one you know it talking so that i’m assuming that dude i love you you’re not i absolutely love you i i’m assuming that you you are not into this you know article 5 convention of states thing where basically the state legislatures are going to go in and they’re going to put at the end of all of the different amendments but this time we mean it or whatever it is they think they’re going to do i mean let’s say you could come up with some amendment that would actually be better or that would clarify uh the commerce clause or general welfare or something like that over time i mean benjamin franklin signed on to the constitution in philadelphia and even he said you know after a number of years this is going to end in a despotism even he’s like well let’s we got to live right now but in the long run john dickinson penman of the revolution he warned us all artful rulers will always try to give their actions as much legality as possible so it doesn’t matter what words you put on paper sooner or later they’re going to find a way to expand their power fit what they do no one goes out there and says you know we gotta bomb syria we gotta have this affordable care act or we need this drug war this gun prohibition uh but it’s illegal but we’re gonna do it anyways no no no they all claim that it’s legal they’ll continue doing that that so that is one issue that i have with that approach i don’t think it’s a really smart strategy even if you could get something good the other thing that i have a problem with is it takes dozens of states and it takes dozens of states where all the states are filled with really crappy politicians that are absolutely horrible on almost everything when it comes to liberty why would we trust these politicians to do the right thing in a large scale if they call a convention i don’t know i don’t i just i just don’t trust politicians period i don’t think we should ever trust them even if we think they’re a good person because it’s the old power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely maxim abigail adams called and said she said power is ever grasping whenever they have power they’re always going to want more and you think a bunch of politicians from a bunch of red states are going to somehow limit government power they don’t limit their own power on the state level they’re happy to have a police state and prohibition and all this other garbage i just don’t i don’t understand i think it’s primarily the the push on that generally comes from uh kind of the tea party crowd the red state crowd and maybe they’re okay with a lot of uh violations of liberty as long as it’s gen just done by their team i don’t know i haven’t looked at it that deeply though on the actual grassroots i think that it is kind of this like we found one simple trick like this sort of this thing belief that i i think this is what happens when you’re raised on disney movies you think that there’s this plot device that’s gonna fix everything at the last minute when all hope is lost you know i i and i by the way my name spike is because i watched the my little pony movie when i was three years old now keep in mind when you’re listening to this story i was three years old so just the fact that i was even out to my little pony movie okay three years old all right and i watch that you know in i don’t even remember the exact part of the story but basically there was like this evil wizard or whatever that’s just destroying everything and there’s this little diminutive shy dragon named spike and at the very last minute when all hope is lost all the ponies are about to get freaking massacred or whatever the hell is about to happen he turns into this big massive dragon solves everything fixes the whole world that’s basically what these different things are they’re like this there’s this like i found this secret thing in the constitution that gives us the ability to fix it all without having to get pants on it’s a lot of it is not putting pants on and it’s you know without having to go outside or go and advocate for anything or go to your city hall or go to your put your neck on the line or put your neck on the line put your neck every and i used to say it years ago but now it’s so common i used to say you know the next time you see someone lighting a joint up in public pat him on the back for being a hero because they are helping us all they’re helping us establish the practice the the approach the path to move liberty forward whether on that issue or on something else and it’s so important to encourage people to defy these these unjust immoral unconstitutional illegal whatever you want to call them so-called laws i think a lot of people really do i think you’re right they live in this fantasy they think oh just one more supreme court opinion and the affordable care act is going to be gone and it just never seems to play out like that and none of the founders actually said this and again you know if james madison himself is telling us like look mere demarcation of words on parchment is not enough to do the job there has to be something else and he told us a refusal to cooperate with officers of the union that doesn’t mean you just have to go willy-nilly just go crazy and start to find everything you have to have smart strategy jefferson said you know the ground of liberty is to be gained by inches so every single step forward we talk about legalization of cannabis for example but really what we’re doing is we’re paying a tax tribute to the state government to be able to you know get the feds off of our back or in you know many ways just to not be arrested by the state for just making a purchase out of business so that’s a step forward but if we stop with that we really aren’t being libertarian are we we have to keep pushing forward for more and more and more here in california it’s clearly not a perfect place but we have a 50-year history of resistance to prohibition on a state a federal a local level you could we could look at things like the big top cannabis supermarket run by dennis perrone the great hero passed away some years ago uh who ran the big top cannabis supermarket the san francisco cannabis buyers club even when it was illegal on a state level they raided him they shut him down he got out of jail he opened up he did it again they raided him they shut him down he kept doing it over and over and over and over until enough people were on board he had somewhere between eight and ten thousand members before they even had medical marijuana here in california and that actually was part of the groundswell that got the ball rolling on the state level because states are also pretty freaking evil and the only way they change is when there’s so much pressure on them to do something that they don’t have another choice politically so it really starts with individual action it starts with individuals on a large scale willing to exercise their rights whether government wants them to or not and eventually maybe you can get one level of government to take a bit of a stand against another level of government and that pushes things forward again but we have to keep going forward and forward and forward you know our entire life i mean kind of sucks you got to just keep pushing here’s an example of that caitlyn clovin is talking about the work that is happening when a group called accountability now ohio they are working to i actually spoke at their at their press conference uh last month um and they’re working to end qualified immunity uh excellent uh they have an amendment to do to working on ending cash bail uh the bill number just quickly just while i’m thinking it’s house bill 332 for people in ohio let me see if i’ve got that right that is also it i know they may be doing an amendment i’m not familiar with that yeah this is also an amendment yeah this is there is a bill from a guy named representative thomas west that was filed at the beginning of june house bill 332 which would create a process to do an end run around this qualified immunity mess that is the federal court system and allow people a process on a state level basically the same type of an idea anyways i’m sorry yeah no no no that’s good and uh there’s a uh uh another group called for all tennessee they just were successfully able to end no knock raids in uh in tennessee as well as uh put in a uh what is called a statewide uh duty to intervene so it’s now a a felony for a police officer to witness another police officer breaking the law yeah not stop them so now if you’re recording you’re out there recording and watching the cops you know brutalize someone that can be used as evidence that these people didn’t that they that they brought with committed a felony and if they passed a lawyer tennessee tennessee it passed unanimously almost unanimously i was blown away one because we followed the we do a lot of work on no knock warrants uh for example we just uh supported a piece of legislation that got signed on the law in connecticut as well and we were following this tennessee thing and i’m like there’s no chance and that passed super easy too maybe one vote against it i’m blown away was this a grassroots thing that happened what was the group it was it’s called for all tennessee and they’re they are not explicitly libertarians but it’s a bunch of libertarians here they just did a bunch of [ __ ] right yeah no this is the kind of stuff that happens now talk to us a little bit about because a lot of people are saying in in the comments they’re saying things like okay well federal politician state politician what’s the difference why is it important for us to be focusing on city-wide and statewide politicians as opposed to federal ones like why is that the important thing there well first of all the uh federal politicians are all monsters and at best you’re just gonna get something really bad they’re out murdering people around the world spying on everybody taking people and throwing people into cages and then they’re trying to coerce the states to do all this stuff for them now on a more local level they all suck as well the state politicians are evil the local politicians are generally all evil i know there’s an l in wyoming uh maybe another one in vermont or something like there’s a few decent people oh maybe even some of you even some people from the quickest side you know what i i love the lp you know why it’s the drama in the lp has prevented me from finishing watching the hands maids tale i mean when i want to watch drama i literally get on twitter on facebook and i see who’s mad at who for being the worst human being on earth but as someone who works with the horrible evil politicians that are republicans and democrats i would take if you’re for example a libertarian socialist and you think a mises caucus member is the worst person on earth trust me they’re they’re gonna be way better on something than any republican or democrat that i work with on a day-to-day basis and vice versa the mises pockets people who hate the the lib socks oh my god i would work with a whole state legislature filled with these two sides and i would shut down the police state and the drug war and you know all kinds of really awful stuff there isn’t as huge of a difference i think between all these different factions in the lp than what you may think they are when you’re embroiled in it constantly all day every day to me it’s a breath of fresh air i mean sometimes i do enjoy just the drama of it all where was i going with this i have no idea you asked me some questions i’m like you know what i love about the lp i said tell me something random that is largely irrelevant you said what about the state politicians they’re terrible yes yes they are but let me tell you i’ve had so many aides on a state level tell me that if their boss gets 10 or 12 phone calls on something on a particular piece of legislation they’re going to start paying attention 10 or 12 calls not emails phone calls so when we do activism we always encourage people oh you want to support house bill 332 in ohio you should call whatever committee it’s been assigned to everyone who lives in ohio not out of state if you call from out of state they’re going to just shut the bill down but if you live in ohio you call every member on the committee personally and you say hey my name is so-and-so i’m in district such and such and i support house bill 332 i need to see this move forward because i want to end qualified immunity 10 12 calls and you might see that piece of legislation move forward at least get a hearing on a federal level if you look at the bankster bailouts over the years you’d get tens of thousands of calls all opposed to it and they do it anyways and i think that’s the best example i can give sometimes you actually can have an impact because politicians at every level are spineless cowards and spineless cowards generally like to do what makes them popular so if you can find in one community that ending qualified immunity or ending uh prohibition on on magic mushrooms or on ending enforcement of gun control it happens to be popular in that area you actually have a chance to get it done on a state level or even on a local level so that’s my quick take on that basically the smaller the the lower and more decentralized and localized the government is the fewer touches it takes for them to actually move the fewer points of contact it only at city level it probably only takes two or three phone calls yeah sometimes well here in l.a new york yeah i was gonna say la new york but like most places are not elena in new york i live in myrtle beach if five phone calls were written to were called to city council people they’d probably take a serious look at what’s being talked about um i i actually just asked uh if some people if they want to uh if they have any questions uh for you um i know that one person asked about if no if you think nullification is something that could work for for example uh the reason we don’t have new nuclear power plants in this country are because of federal regulations that have made it effectively prohibitively expensive basically made it impossible to to make a new nuclear power plant is do you think nullification is something that could work for something like that i don’t know the process uh the only so the thing is when you when we look at like for example can we apply this anti-commandeering this we can call it nullification most lawyers will tell you this doesn’t count as nullification i don’t care you can call whatever you want if we’re looking at this we’re going to ban state and local participation or enforcement of gun control marijuana prohibition participating in asset forfeiture surveillance for example we ban facial recognition in oakland san francisco berkeley somerville massachusetts boston minneapolis portland maine things like that this actually impacts the national surveillance state because what they do is as soon as they collect local data they feed it through fusion centers or something called information sharing environment ise similar to ice something else that shouldn’t exist they feed it through that and then it all gets passed around through the national surveillance state and everybody in boise idaho and the fbi and the atf all has that information so when you ban the data collection locally this impacts it on a national level so we always have to understand how it all plays out we know for example that nullification did work or this type of approach did work in is it do you say nevada or nevada i don’t know people no trust me i got booed when i said nevada i know i got to be careful with that so i’m asking it’s nevada it is nevada okay so in nevada they actually saw it as an environmental issue that they did not want yucca mountain there this uh nuclear waste this is the opposite direction but just to think of how this works or how this plays out well they had to they needed a bunch of water for the drills and the state actually withdrew their drilling permits and they said you can’t do this here anymore we’re not going to allow it and they kept delaying it it even went to federal court surprising the federal court said you know they can do this you can’t force them to give you permits to do drilling so you always have to look at how does this play out what’s the mechanism to implement this type of thing now if it’s something about just like oh i want to get a new power plant online and then to get the power plant online requires a a doe a department of energy permit then what you’re probably talking about is someone just doing it anyway and i think in the climate that we live in today that’s still very unlikely especially when it comes to state governments local governments they really really really want to have permission from the federal government or permission from the federal courts to do what they want to do i think in the long run we may eventually we have to set the foundation for this eventually we have to start creating a climate where people are going to have to do these types of things whether it’s on energy or on something else they’re going to do things whether or not the courts and the feds agree or not yeah i i think i tend to agree with you on that it’s the difference between like for example with something like uh with the the um these nullifications in these sanctuary cities both for guns and immigration it’s they’re refusing to cooperate with something that they’re having to do something as opposed to if you want to build a power plant you need yeah you need doe approval so unless the states are willing to sit there and protect you from federal enforcers if they come in which is not going to happen then you’re kind of i don’t see that happening i mean i mean maybe sometime in the future they did in ohio in response to the fugitive slave act there’s a great uh short story the oberlin wellington rescue basically uh you know they wanted to the feds wanted to prosecute somebody for you know violating the fugitive slave act of 1850 the state arrested the feds uh the the feds then arrested a bunch of people and it created this kind of stan but these types of standoffs i think they’re few and far between they’re very rare i don’t think government people are the ones we want to rely on yeah you know so it is very difficult when you have to get approval from the feds when you can actually look at a federal program and say well we’re just not going to implement it then what happens it just falls to pieces and i think there’s so many things on the books that i would focus my energy elsewhere to be honest with you right right because you’re not going to have a standoff between state and federal enforcers over a nuclear power plant like it’s not going to happen so here are some of the questions that we’re getting um a couple people asked if we’ll run for president and vice president together i’d that’s interesting um and um this then this is uh let’s see here uh caitlyn cloven uh asked if you’ll marry them uh they didn’t say that but that’s i mean they would like you to marry them i just i’m letting you know that um and then uh let’s see here the answer is always yes always always and if there are laws against polygamy in your area nullification nullification um uh let’s see here uh what are what would you say they mentioned south carolina but you could just say at any step what would you say are like the best and most effective steps to end qualified immunity in a given state for example well legislation i think it was uh senate bill 4 that just went into effect in new mexico let me see if i can pull this up here sure i would literally just copy the legislation that was passed in new mexico and there it is it was house bill 4. it was signed in april of this year by the governor and this is actually an expansion there was a similar bill that was signed last year in colorado but a little bit more narrow and basically what it does is it creates a process to sue law government i mean because qualified immunity isn’t just cops it’s every government agency yeah it’s government yeah it’s government as a whole uh but obviously cops are the ones generally with the guns that are blasting people in the face or beating them up and they’re very frightening and so what you have to do is create a process where people can do an end run around the federal court system because every time this gets brought to the supreme court they just say we’re not going to consider it and it’s been this has been expanding on a federal level since really since 1967 is really where they first created it but 19 mid 1980s and on and they just keep making it worse and worse and worse and maybe in three four decades the supreme court will have some good people there and they’re going to turn it around but what about all of us who are living right now who want an opportunity to actually be able to hold government people accountable well that’s where the states come in and we’re talking about colorado and new mexico have created a process in state law the most recent one in new mexico house bill 4 that went into effect where you can actually sue someone in state court it doesn’t have to go to federal court and there’s no qualified immunity as as a defense for the law enforcement agents i like it i like it um here’s another one um what are the next time you see someone without pants pat them on the back side if they consent that’s not a question um what are why is there a question mark you sure that’s not a question jackie jack you you tricked me there um so what are some exciting lesser-known nullification acts that are happening right now across the country i think no knock warrants is huge i mean obviously you guys all know about this but tennessee connecticut i’m not sure who else but this is another thing that really the supreme court took a position and said well this is okay to do and then because of the way that the whole system works under the 14th amendment that means instead of just applying to the federal government it applies to every law enforcement agent everywhere in the country they have free reign to do this and if you take them to court you’re going to sue in federal court they’re not going to be held accountable and the federal courts have already said you don’t need to knock you know so when the state starts saying let’s end this on a state level tennessee connecticut hopefully elsewhere soon that’s very positive that’s really important i think banning facial recognition this actually goes all the way back to the patriot act and its successor they’ve wanted to implement facial recognition surveillance i mean we’ve seen you know the black mirrors of the world they want this literally everywhere all the time i mean feeding everything from your social media pictures into the system to of course the fbi’s next-gen facial recognition database that went online about a decade ago so when local communities again when they stop collecting the data it doesn’t go into the nationwide system this is an important part of the process uh of course opting out of police militarization programs not just the 1033 equipment program but you talk about the training the training often is generally attached with funding from uh the department of justice uh jag grant program or the dhs department of homeland security program it’s a anti-terrorism program that they’re really teaching cops to treat people as potential terrorists potential terrorists that you know and it’s terrible asset forfeiture is really important we saw a lot of movement on that in recent years institute for justice is probably the best organization ij.org on earth working well on earth ij.org is doing the best work on this we’re number two at 10th amendment center but ending asset forfeiture on a state level is incredibly important i think the right to keep and bear arms is starting to finally catch on i think a lot of the reason is is because of the switch of who’s in office and so it’s partisan based but i don’t care i mean if they’ve started to ban enforcement of federal gun control in arizona and texas and missouri and elsewhere this is good and if they actually stop doing it now the key is it takes human action now they can ban state and local enforcement of any federal act on the books but if the people who live there keep following the federal law it doesn’t change anything there is no nullification so you can pass all the state or local laws you want on earth but unless people are willing to exercise their rights thomas jefferson said a free people claim their rights from the laws of nature not as a gift of their chief magistrate so until people start having this mentality nothing will change but having the laws on the books can be very helpful as we’ve seen on weed immigration sanctuary cities and hopefully some other things so now we’re looking at four or five states starting to take on uh federal attacks on the right to keep and bear arms i mean trump was the worst in history on federal gun control literally the worst in history the second worst in history was also donald trump the third worst in history was also donald trump and he bragged about it but so many of these people are so partisan and how they the reason i say he’s worst in history just to clarify is that he enforced more federal gun control more enforcement actions than anyone ever before and he bragged about it august of 2019 he literally said at my direction we banned bump stocks evil and we had more federal gun control pro i didn’t say gun control gun prosecutions than anyone in history that was the third time in a row worse than obama now on the other hand a lot of partisans like to think that obama was soft on weed for example the right love used to love claiming obama’s soft on marijuana he won’t enforce marijuana because it made him look bad to the right wing and on the left they like saying obama’s soft on marijuana because well he cares about you but the fact of the matter is we know from the numbers that he was also the worst in history on drug drug enforcement marijuana enforcement bill clinton in four years did about 50 raids in his four years in office after uh 96 here prop 215 in california bush administration comes in they did about 200 raids over eight years and they were terrible obama in his first four years did 270 cannabis raids federal raids around the country more than bush and clinton in 12 years combined worst in history by far so we have to kind of get out of i know you asked me about some other other interesting nullification things but then i’m going on this tirade about partisanship i think it’s important to start teaching people that even when they and this is where i think libertarians can really really win the day at least on messaging because on the right they’re championing this nra second amendment president who enforced more federal gun control than anyone in history and on the left they’re championing barack obama’s you know backing down on the drug war at least on marijuana in the states when he was also the worst in history and libertarians can consistently outright the right and out left the left on anything and everything and i think we’re going to find when we see more and more of this rather than more and more infighting i think when we see more and more of this messaging we’re going to start seeing more things push forward not just on militarization qualified immunity the drug war uh magic mushrooms here in california there’s a bill that will decriminalize actually well it’s not the traditional legalized but it will make legal for possession without commercial sales all kinds of psychedelics it’s already passed the state senate and it’s going through the next process senate bill 519 this coming month on the assembly side it’s possible that we’ll get to the governor uh to actually end the drug war on the state level on psychedelics as well so we’re seeing further steps on things that started out as one thing and just continue to grow out of that that my puns are intended i guess and it helps for us to stop the infighting again like you said barack obama here’s another example deportations barack obama is still terrible in chief he is still for all of donald trump’s all they’re common and they’re rapists and some of them are good people obama dwarfed trump when it came to deportations this is a perfect example and i say i echo what you were saying i actually say this in fact i said in colorado uh at that convention i say it at every convention i go to i say it online all the time for all these libertarians that are going if this faction takes over i’m quitting the party and this one going if this p faction continues to stay in power i’m quitting the party go talk to online or in person whoever you think is your political opponent and instead of talking to them about your favorite podcaster or their favorite podcaster or you know this person who’s in the lnc or the chair or whatever go write down of your choice 10 issues like actual not lp issues actual issues that affect everyday people every day wars inflation housing higher education police state surveillance asset forfeiture it’s an endless write 10 of these things down okay just 10 and ask their opinion about it this opponent of yours that you are in this bitter battle for the heart and soul of the party ask them their opinion on it you’re probably going to agree 90 of the time if not 100 of the time and yes that includes if you put immigration and abortion on it they’re going to agree with you probably 90 to 100 percent of the time get over yourselves at this point at this point i mean we’re having our 15-year anniversary this weekend 10th amendment center at this point because most most of our work you know we’re working with state legislators they’re democrats and republicans i’m happy when i can’t agree with them on one issue and usually they’re not even that good on that issue and we have to push them in the right direction so when someone wants to end asset forfeiture they like they introduce a bill that says well you can’t have a forfeiture without a criminal conviction we’re like that is great that’s the right principle but you’re not addressing the federal equitable sharing program and if you don’t do that here’s how it played out in california how it played out here how it played out there and they’re always they’re never really there even when they’re on the right path and i think you make a great point you’re going to find 80 even if it’s 50 percent when we’re talking about the public at large who often times clamors for more government in response to anything and everything you got one side climbing for more government on this the other side clamoring for more government on that and they often clamor for more government on a lot of times the same stuff and so if you look outside the lp the rest of the world is just i mean these politicians are just horrible horrible evil i mean am i overstating it no there’s no overstating what mass murderers do to people every single day i mean it really is it’s it’s these are if you are someone in the middle east for example or in central america and you are looking at the john mccain’s the joe bidens the donald trumps the barack obamas the george bush’s these might as well be the hitlers and the stalins and the mao tombs of their of their lives like these are the people that make middle eastern children scared of sunny days because those are the days that the bombers do more bombings because there’s more visibility these are the people who are having to send their children off with coyotes where they know that they are likely to be sexually abused where there’s a likelihood the pos a very high possibility they might die and an almost certainty that they’re going to end up in one of joe biden’s kitty camps but that’s still better than what awaits them if they stay in central america where the narco terrorists that the cia is sponsoring are taking over their countries on drugs has created so much of this the 40-year war in colombia i mean some people think the war on drugs is just a domestic thing but this is an imperialist project it is it has been the justification for so much surveillance and intervention around the world not just colombia and afghanistan but all over the place all the time and it creates a climate the uh us imperial policy whether it’s on uh monetary policy or the world bank right or things like the drug war it’s creating so many refugees in the first place especially backing of dictators and foreign aid that goes to prop up one monster over another uh so i don’t know where are we going it is pretty evil these people are really evil and to think that uh one person in the lp i i understand that party f infighting is always gonna happen but having this opportunity to talk to you and knowing where your audience a lot of times will be coming from i just implore you to recognize what i deal with every day and i love everyone that i meet from all these different factions because it’s like a breath of fresh air oh we disagree on everything economic but you want to end the drug war and you want to stop surveillance well great we can be friends if we had to agree on everything and any anything i would never have been able to go to a family thanksgiving dinner in my life not that i go all the time anymore anyways but we have to find ways to work together find common ground the left has oftentimes the anti-war movement at least when i was marching in the streets with them they oftentimes found common ground you found all this kind of coalition-y thing and i was listening to chris bengals uh do you listen to his we are libertarians podcast yeah yeah yeah no i love chris chris did a really cool episode recently uh where he was talking about the history of lp infighting he had all these old codgers talking about the old days and things like that and man i don’t know i’m aging i don’t even remember always going basically this type of thing has always happened it’s always been around and people are always gonna fight over who is in charge of the party but at the end of the day whoever is in charge of the lp is way better than the dnc or the whatever the what is the republican one the gop yeah gop yeah yeah no listen here’s the thing i’m an ancap okay if i can have you know libertarian socialists and and constitutionalists and menarches and and classical liberals and other and caps and people that just got here because they like a meme they saw about joe jorgensen or they voted for gary johnson and our ideas sound a little less crazy than the other party we have to work together we recognize that we are headed we are barreling in a direction that we all hate and it’s only going to get worse we have to really slow down and stop that and start working towards this way i look forward to a day i don’t even know what if anything i disagree with you on i look forward to a day where we get to that point where we’re now having serious policy discussions on the things that you and i disagree on and we can get into our camps and go no i think that there should be absolutely no taxes and just uh voluntary fees and you go no there should be a very minimal tax of five percent and we can argue over that let’s get there that’s a classic harry brown argument i don’t know if you were uh a hairy kind of guy back in the day i am harry brown is the best of all respect to dr paul and dr jorgensen and the others in my opinion harry brown is the best presidential candidate this party’s ever had i think he was the best communicator for liberty personally i mean maybe he’s probably the only human being that when i learned that he passed and i didn’t know him personally like i had exchanged some emails very briefly near the end of his life but the only time that i literally bawled my head off i cried so hard because it was such a such a loss and i remember listening to jim babka uh on a show like he was in tears as well because this man touched people with this message and i think the message and it’s not just that harry was special he was special in the way that he communicated but the message of liberty is what touches people and he was just so good at communicating it but he talked about this as well because of course there’s always been this kind of and i think spangle talked about this on this episode with all these old school heads basically saying like look there’s always been this infighting and harry certainly addressed it very well like of course there were and caps in the party at that point and the way he responded to is like look we live under this size of government whatever the size of the time i just want to get it down to the constitutional limits and if we can even get there they’re going to be much smarter people at that point that can figure out whether or not and or how we could get it down to zero even further so exactly let’s we’re on the same path we’ll stay on the same path until we diverge sometime in the future or in another lifetime so in the spirit of togetherness i do this every time that i bring someone on who comes with a you know kind of a constitutional uh center or flare of of sorts uh lysander spooner uh he uh basically uh opined that the uh the reason he believed that uh the constitution and government in general was unfit to exist he talked about the fact that uh the government that they had at that point and this was in the late 1800s so nowhere near as tyrannical as it is now but certainly tyrannical even by those standards uh he said that the uh the constitution uh was either uh intended to create the government that we have uh or it was powerless to stop it which of those do you think it it is more more or is a combination of those two and what do you think is the answer to that reality that we’re in now if we look at the context of what spooner had to say and what he was talking about in some ways it was worse at that point because spooner spooner was an abolitionist hardcore and in his great 1860 edition of the unconstitutionality of slavery which also included a defense against fugitive slaves it was another chapter that he added to it that he had written some years earlier a response constitutionally and strategically how to deal with the fugitive slave act of 1850 which again tried to turn everyone in the north into a slave catcher basically if someone claimed that someone was their property like someone from i don’t know uh alabama and i’m sorry not to pick on alabama came up to ohio and this person i own them they’re mine they would go into a fugitive slave type hearing with a commissioner that got paid ten dollars if they sent them back to slavery five dollars if they kept them in freedom in the north so there was a financial incentive in the federal fugitive slave act and the alleged escaped slave couldn’t even provide testimony at the hearing so this was a very hated act by abolitionists like lysander spooner and he spent about 15 years fighting against that making constitutional argument so in this appendix of that book uh no treason uh he ended in the appendix he talked about he’s like look uh what the constitution was meant to authorize nothing it the government of today does not resemble this at all because he was actually very good at making the arguments over the years on trial by jury on slavery and things like that on the constitutionality of things this guy was a legal scholar of his time but he said like look all these arguments they’ve done nothing so therefore it is either authorized government that we live under or it’s been powerless to prevent it and i would just say i think i’ve already basically answered that is that words on paper don’t enforce themselves and i think a lot of people have actually we’ve all gone to government schools or we’ve gone to private schools with government basically approval so we aren’t taught the stuff on how to deal with government i went to a catholic school when i was a kid i thought that i was taught that basically all roads led to catholicism if i had a problem go to the catholic church they’ll fix it then when i went to government school every time there was a problem i was taught the solution is government to deal with it so that’s what we’re taught from birth to grave through our entire lives we’re not taught that the founders over and over and over referred to the constitution as a parchment barrier st george tucker in his 1803 view of the constitution the united states this was the first systematic legal commentary on the on the document it was cited in the supreme court for decades he specifically said like look this parchment barrier hasn’t been enough to prevent government from growing we’ve seen this already happen so we’re not taught that we’re not taught that the way to keep government in check is to resist it when it does stuff it’s not authorized to do and i think that’s the missing part of the puzzle now spooner actually did encourage resistance in his defense against fugitive slaves he had a whole section talking about the right to keep and bear arms and he says the right to keep and bear arms implies the right to use it just like the right to have food implies the right to eat it i mean this guy was so great at his writing and he said like to be honest with you he was adv and i don’t advocate violence but he was saying like look if someone’s going to put someone into bondage at some point you got to use this right to keep and bear arms in essence is what he was getting at there so he was pretty hardcore and i certainly understand uh the the notion that like you can’t rely on government to limit government you can’t rely on government to protect liberty but you also can’t rely on words on paper to do anything they can’t start or stop anything it is really up to human action and if the market is not on board with liberty just like i said at the beginning samuel adams if enough people understood and valued freedom and knew how to defend it then we would have it but i think a big part is we’re missing both of that too many people aren’t on board with liberty too many people don’t value it and very few people know how to defend it so we’ve got a lot of work to do a lot of it is education and then a lot of the education is doing activism because there’s no way that a right wing state a red state like oklahoma would have legalized marijuana for any purposes medical or otherwise they have medical on the books as of 2018 that wouldn’t have happened in 2010 but as they learned over the years that the world didn’t come to an end that passed by a landslide even in oklahoma and i think the more that we show people that liberty works that liberty is okay in practice that the people aren’t dying left and right because we have more freedom on health care on on what we put in our body how we defend our home and our property then we’re going to see more results in practice in the long run because we can tell people to read books all day long and reading books doesn’t change the world i think it’s important to educate people but we really have to lead by example absolutely absolutely go into this is what this is my my mantra go into our communities show them that we care show them that we have the best ideas and show them that we have a strategy and a way to move forward and then lead in showing them how we’re going to do it don’t just say well when we get elected we’re going to do it go to your city councils go to your state legislatures go to your county councils go and advocate for what you want to see and get and encourage others to join you and then get whatever victories you’re able to get then get behind candidates who are going to push and libertarian candidates get behind candidates who are going to push 100 or at least 80 90 for the things that you want we have to it’s like you said human action we have to take the action we have to get out there and show that we care the most and that from there showing that we care the most we can show that we understand the best how we got here and that we understand the best how to get out of it we know better than the left and the right we know we know have better ideas than democrats and republicans pretend to have so it’s there’s no need to argue there’s no need to uh to uh lie or pander or water down our message there’s no need to to attack people and there’s certainly no need to tell them over and over again to read some book you show them our ideas how they work and then you can you can lead and bring them into it so i love it listen michael you’ve been a fantastic guest before i let you go i yes it’s over now go away no before i let you go it’s over no it’s the show i’ve already turned it off it’s just you and me talking no listen before before i let you go before i let you go how’d i do no before i let you go uh i want to give you a chance to kind of have the final the any of your final thoughts anything you think we didn’t get a chance to talk about promoting kitty we’ll be here another 45 minutes good no listen i love you i love everybody who’s listened to this whole thing and watched it i’m very grateful for the opportunity i feel like we should hang out more often and yeah i think uh i probably said enough if you’re really interested in learning more about how this all works the kind of philosophy the background how it’s playing out we do an annual state of the nullification movement report kind of a white paper it’s a free download 108 pages the first half of it is basically the history the response to the fugitive slave act the jefferson the madison the resistance that type of stuff how it was used in history and then the second half is how it’s being used issue by issue today from cannabis prohibition to gun prohibition to police state and all that stuff it’s updated as of last year but it’s still really really good information 10th amendment amendmentcenter.com report you don’t even have to enter your email just download it there’s kindle version apple books pdf all that stuff awesome awesome man thank you so much for for joining me stick around we’re going to talk during the intro folks thank you so much for tuning in to this fantastic episode of my fellow americans i told you that this guest better than every i don’t want to say that i have like family members that we’re guessing for um so uh thanks for tuning in to this episode uh tomorrow night we got two cool things happening number one uh i’m gonna be on kennedy uh on a panel uh so i’ll be on and off throughout the whole episode starting at 8 pm on fox business also uh right here on muddy waters media my co-host matt is doing his show the writer’s block his guest is a mystery michiganer we don’t know who the guest is well i don’t know who the guest is yet but they’re going to be promoting the upcoming thing that now i’m going to talk about which is on friday night uh you can come and join me at the in wynn michigan at the isabella county sportsman’s club i keep all this in my head the isabella county sportsman’s club come out and shoot guns with me at a shooting range shooting with spike you can do that if you live anywhere near wind michigan wherever the hell that is so come on out and do that isabella county sportsmen’s club on friday at 7 p.m eastern michigan time whatever michigan time is and then on saturday and sunday come join us at the soaring eagle casino and resort for the libertarian party’s uh mission libertarian party of michigan’s convention why is it at a casino in resort because michigan is shut down except for the native reservations where they told the state enough screw you we’re going to stay open we’re a sovereign nation nullification come celebrate sovereign nullification with me at the soaring eagle i know how to parlay into something uh the soaring eagle the soaring eagle casino and resort for the libertarian party in michigan convention go to lp lp.michiganlp.org to sign up today on sunday at 3 p.m eastern come watch the uh i believe third episode now of uh cajun and eskimo from bayou to igloo right here on uh the muddy waters media then join us again on tuesday uh for the muddy waters of freedom where matt wright and i parse through the week’s events like the sweet little summer cherubs that we are uh and then on wednesday right back here my fellow americans same spike place normal spike time of 8 p.m my guest is who’s my guest hold on one second oh my guest is david dahl of dave’s killer bread and we’re going to have a really cool conversation yeah he’s a a a former uh a formerly convicted person uh who has a uh i get that fred it’s actually really good too it’s you’re interviewing that dude yeah yeah yeah that’s awesome next wednesday 8pm that’s awesome i’m not even kidding this is really cool yeah everything else i said was total [ __ ] but this is awesome this is cool everything else sucked but this so now i’m gonna get to say that my next guest is even better than you were which was even better than the other like my guess just every year better than the last guess every single guest moving forward is going to make the last guest look like a total schmuck okay the worst part is when i have to come on like in four weeks and be like we’re kind of doing a little ebb and floor we’re just playing that we’re playing that video game the whole time adder pam we’re gonna play adder pan we’re literally gonna play adder pan and we’re both gonna be horrified our viewer account’s gonna be like seven i don’t care like i just want to do it but so folks so tune in uh tomorrow for uh the money for the writer’s block or you can watch me on kennedy if you have cable uh then friday uh you can uh hang out with me and shoot guns and win michigan saturday and sunday come celebrate uh native sovereign nullification at the libertarian party of michigan convention uh then sunday at three uh cajun and eskimo from bayou to igloo then tuesday uh at uh eight is the muddy waters of freedom and then right back here wednesday night at eight my fellow americans dave’s killer bread folks i love each and every one of you thank you michael thank you guys for watching i’m spike cohen and you are the power god bless guys [Music] oh [Music] so [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] slightly like-minded indeed the life i’ve lived brings light to kindness all you need is a sign put a cease to the crimes put an ease of the minds like mine sometimes darkness is all i find you know what they say about an eye for a night in a time when the blood is the blood who am i to deny with cry when a loved one dies i recognize that body outside with the holes in the body that was alive now confined to a chalk outline find out how but you never know why it ain’t even make it to the news at night you didn’t even make it [Music] tell me why make a change [Music] we will make [Music] you